Cram's Basement Jam Room

I have a Door: Dimensions - 36 inches by 6 feet 5 inches. It's a 6 panel door and was originally used as the front door to the house. We've had it in a storage area of the house and I'd like to use it. I plan on cutting the vertical measurement with a skill saw a bit. The end ceiling height will want a shorter door. So, if anyone can link me to a familiar door work within a project, please do. I'll post my research findings below though. I've seen several people using existing doors and beefing up 1 or both sides of these doors, but I'm trying to figure out how I could use this one. I see from another thread recomendations for a thicker or deeper door knob that's made by schlaig (sp), so I'll take a look at that. Anyway, I'm going to put some time in to this between now and wednesday (2days) at which point I have help coming for framing all of this - I want to make sure that I'm atleast going to use this dimension and how we will frame it. I'm confident about getting that done as I've hung many doors, but I'm more concerned with how we'd treat this one. --- This is the research I've done in the last hour. I've read a lot of tangient conversation in other areas, but this is a good starting point to answer some of my questions. ---- research - ----------------------------- http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9856 Rod suggests using a certain seal on a door openning based upon a question. Adds that magnetic weatherstripping will help in isolation. ----------------------------- http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1662 (found through sticky on doors and windows) Knightfly - Good advice on how to transform a normal door frame into a better form of isolation Suggestion for a door kit: http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... l_kits.asp Also a suggestion of how to use a hollow door if only using one door. This way the door is your own little MAM assembly with MDF on both sides. I also feel reaffirmed in my own planning when compared to this image presented by knightfly - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/files ... 01_169.jpg Planned on double full lengths with a jack stud. Actually, this thread is likely the most useful I've found in my brief search this morning. The book Last evening after finishing off the framing work for the closet around the basement system pump, I sat with Rod's book and read through the two door construction methods he offers there. The super door and then the double door. I think I'm going to do a variation of the super door. A friend who works with a reality company with several condo/apartment properties can set me up with a piston or arm assembly to control the weight of the door for openning and closing. (I don't know the industry term for one of those things... ) Not sure if I'll use a layer of lead at this point, but mdf is easy enough. More reference as I peak through the site - (2/21/2008) http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ght=#59889 Someone asking a question about the door. Rod answers with a good distinction on the strength of the doorjam 1 1/4 thick. -----------------------------

Been researching the Electrical plan I will have in this room and through all of the solutions I explored from boxing in each outlet with wall board, to having wall mounts with conduit... I see a clean solution of using Putty Pads as my best bet. One of the criteria for this project was that in the future it can be used as a room for another purpose (like a rec room). So, mounting the boxes to the frame and wrapping them with this stuff seems to be a good solution in compromise. My links from search: http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... p?kc=wiYzh http://www.whitecapdirect.com/products/479MPP4S (for slightly less of a cost) Just continuing to document this sort of stuff as I work through it. Again, I get this from simply looking through the posts from the vast history of studio builds on this site; so thanks to all. Recomendation from Dan Scott Says this place is the cheapest price he could find - (net-tech) I see they offer fire stop mineral wool as well, so I'll likely get from this vendor for this reason. http://www.nettechdi.com/firestop_b.htm

Man, you're really going to town! I'm enjoying watching your build - best of luck! :wink:

thanks for the words brad. I am trying to make sure that at every step of this process, I put reference to the things that helped me along the way. This should help someone doing their project find answers relating to my work easily. I'm a big fan of reference and prooving one's work. I have help tonight for a while so I hope to finish up the framing. Last evening I prebuilt a section of a frame for the interior portion of the double wall, but didn't put it in as it was getting late and others were nodding off. - Ironic isn't it... THAT'S the reason I'm building this room: so I can be loud whenever I want. Electrical Work While picking up some framing supplies last evening I looked through the local store's electric supply section. - I'd like to put double gang outlet boxes around the room. - All of the "new construction" outlet boxes have those pre-set nails to put them into the frame, but they are set only an inch back. - This works for one layer of wall board, but we're dealing with two in my room. So, anyone know the best outlet box to deal with 2 layers of 5/8 on the wall?

Cram wrote:

So, anyone know the best outlet box to deal with 2 layers of 5/8 on the wall?

Lowes and Home Depot makes adjustable "new construction" boxes that have a tiny silver screw to adjust the depth. (the blue plastic boex) - No nails, just a mteal clip on the face that has two holes for either screws or nails. I bought 17 of them in my studio and they're just great. Check out the bottom right corner of the picture "connecting_to_muffler.JPG" in my build thread to see them: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=15 If you plan on using putty-pads to seal up your boxes: MAKE SURE - after your rough wiring is done, that you adjust the boxes to their finished depth (1 1/4" inches) - and THEN seal them up. If you don't, when you adjust the depth, the wire moves (it slides outward) and breaks the seal. This happened to me and I caught it before I sheetrocked :wink:

Photo Comment 2007_12_12 009.jpg - outside of double wall looking toward basement wall inside. 2007_12_12 010.jpg - doorway. Frame for doorway is only built on exterior frame of double wall at this point. 2007_12_12 011.jpg - full view of exterior wall on this side of column & center beam. Detail of framing around the pipes can be seen here. Still not complete. 2007_12_12 012.jpg - looking outward of same frame section. Plate is set for interior wall and is more evident in this photo. 2007_12_12 015.jpg - only that much more to go on the interior frame... Detail Comment We got off to a late start this evening so we couldn't complete the framing of walls. I had assembled 7.5' of frame prior to our work tonight, so that went up in quick order. We spent time looking over drawings and detail I had worked out for the door frame. We took time to discuss the millwork i'm going to be doing on this door and agreed upon a width. I ran ideas for how to frame the center beam by him and he presented a couple ideas and that's how we left it - along with cleaning up. Upcoming Events I should have the sway bracing [WIC] by tomorrow or monday. I'll try to get the electric box work done by the weekend - just the locations and placement of them for now. The wiring will likely be done next week. I'm hoping someone else in the family can set me up with 3/4 conduit to organize this. Ceiling framing should start the week after that.... but, I'm not going to guarantee it as we're getting closer to christmas.

2007_12_13 001.jpg - outside door frame, notice the bracing that ties into the next stud on either side of the door frame. This provides more stability. 2007_12_13 003.jpg - shows how I had to work around the column (again, this will be boxed in on the outside of the room. Not done yet. 2007_12_13 014.jpg - starting to layout the door frame. I wanted to nail down into the studs from the top plate, so I assembled it before installing it on the plate. 2007_12_13 019.jpg - bracing that is temporary until I get the WIC clips. I just need the wall frame to be steady while I continue with the install through this interior wall. There are a few obstructing pipes on the top side of the remainder that I have to deal with and I want things secure. 2007_12_13 020.jpg - this is the start of the frame along the center beam. I will have a supporting stud below that cross bracing. It will support the exterior frame to the beam which will also hold the ceiling joists.

Insulation Compression Question What I have - a large amount of R19. (Most leftover from a previous home improvement) Obviously, I'd like to make use of this and what is encouraging is that in many threads I research I see folks recommending that this could be used with 2x4 construction and compressed to fit. This advice is always accompanied with "but not too much". I understand why that [too much compression] would be bad... My question: What could I use to compress this within a wall stud? - Twine, Rope of some sort? - Wire? - Thin strapping? Just looking for guidance on this point. Thanks.

Cram wrote:

I received fireblock today and put it on the top of some of the frame along with fire rated calking. Came out nicely. Insulation Compression Question What I have - a large amount of R19. (Most leftover from a previous home improvement) Obviously, I'd like to make use of this and what is encouraging is that in many threads I research I see folks recommending that this could be used with 2x4 construction and compressed to fit. This advice is always accompanied with "but not too much". I understand why that [too much compression] would be bad... My question: What could I use to compress this within a wall stud? - Twine, Rope of some sort? - Wire? - Thin strapping? Just looking for guidance on this point. Thanks.

I'm not sure about the good/bad of too much compression, but if your framing is wood, I would attach a piece of lattice or wire to the back of your studs. Then if your insulation is paper-backed, you can then staple it to the front and your good to go. if not, then use thin wire on the front. You can get some wire that's thin AND strong too. With my framing (metal) I needed to screw a scrap piece of wood to the back, then I screwed the insulation to this piece of wood so it wouldn't fall down. What a pain...

BradJacob wrote:

I'm not sure about the good/bad of too much compression, but if your framing is wood, I would attach a piece of lattice or wire to the back of your studs. Then if your insulation is paper-backed, you can then staple it to the front and your good to go. if not, then use thin wire on the front. You can get some wire that's thin AND strong too. With my framing (metal) I needed to screw a scrap piece of wood to the back, then I screwed the insulation to this piece of wood so it wouldn't fall down. What a pain...

With that sort of solution what I imagine is taking a wire - I have lengths of wire I use to hang picture frames and to secure a bookcase against a wall in my daugther's room so it doesn't fall on her. I thought about running some of that along the wall after I stuffed the insulation against the drywall which is against the stairs (image below shows detail next to the support collumn). And taking a staple gun to fasten the wire to each stud. Do about 4 runs across the 84'' or so that is the wall. Last night I got the remainder of the interior double wall framed in. Got a couple of double gang outlet boxes with those slider things that you mentioned, brad. I may stick with two double gangs on opposite sides of the room and then do singles in the other spots. Hopefully that putty pad gets here soon. I can get the town guy to take a look and be on my way to really doing the insulation. Observation - most people gripe about having to handle fiberglass... It's not that big of a deal to me. Long john's/sweatsuit, mask, glasses and I've never had an itch. Now, I don't take my gloves and scratch my face when it itches or anything, but I've not had a problem. Well, when I had to do it for a few days on end I did. Big attic job in the summer sucked...

Green Glue and Iso Clips are on order... {Gulp}$551 with shipping...{/Gulp} 2 Cases of glue and 30 clips, plus 50 to get it here. I did business for this portion of the project with: www.soundisolationcompany.com Through my research, I saw this place pop up a couple of times with no scathing remarks so I went with it. If someone has other product advice here to the contrary, please enter the info so others may benefit. - Clear Reference Points are the forum's greatest asset when done properly by folks building. So I think all added up at this point with a rough estimate, we're around or just over a grand totalled up. 350 lumber 551 glue and clips not sure on the cost of drywall at this point. It's selling for 7.50 per 5/8 sheet in our area right now... I'm trying to arrange a pickup of the drywall this week so I don't have to worry about it anymore as a pending supply.

Just picked up WIC clips. Going to call around today for Hat channels. I found a few local places that deal with it. I'll call all of them and get the best price for 25G hat channels with a hemmed edge.

Concentrated on support beam the last couple of days in my spare time. This was a bit of a challenge - Boxing in the column. The foundation pour is not totally level in this area and in two others of the room. It's not a huge gain in elevation, but around the column there is a hump. There are also air cavities about .5'' below the surface. When I tried to shoot the nails through the peices of wood into the concrete floor, it wouldn't stick, so I needed a better alternative. I couldn't get to my brother's hammer drill in the time I wanted to get the work done so I bought a tapset... set... They are the blue screws in any home center. They come with a carbide tip that you can use in any drill - which lasts about 5 screws worth of drilling in my experience... So I supplimented the friction with water in between drilling spurts. One side of this column will act as the support for a header beam that will hold up an independantly framed ceiling. First I did the "non support" side which will hook up to strapping that will finish in the box around the beam. I put it in place with nails and scrap wood. In the photo which shows three corners of the beam, the sistered up 2x4 sections can be seen. This is where I had to be careful about the height bringing the 2x6 header to .5'' below the ceiling joists. I wrapped the joint for these in the wall frames with three 2x4's that wrap the 2x6 when it comes into the frame. I also got the WIC peices the other day. I got 2'' 5/16'' hex bolts and pre set them on small peices of wood. These will hook into the peices of wood I set in the concrete wall and attach to cross bracing in the walls. Rock on.

Outlets - I'm scrapping the plastic boxes because they have tabs which pinch the wires coming in. I am getting 8 single gang steel boxes for outlets in the wall. I'm putting two light fixture outlets in the ceiling just on either side of the support beam. I'm getting help from my brother who does installs of this stuff so the materials are free on boxes and connectors which will be correctly clamped in place from the wall to the box. So I'm returning the 8 outlet boxes that were plastic with the set screw for the variable depth. Nice feature no doubt for folks like us putting in 1 1/4'' of drywall, but I'd rather do it right. Semi Indipendently framed Ceiling I've completed the ceiling joists for the side of the beam where there is no utility to deal with (interrupting the path of a joist. These were 2x6'' x9' beams that were placed 16'' on center in between the existing floor joists. The r30 insulation is pinched at the top of these ceiling joists, but I will be going up there with a utility knife to relieve this pressure and have the insulation fall on either side of the joist. Each joist was accompanied by a 45degree bracket on both sides of both edges to keep them vertically aligned. The same will be done for the strapping to hold them steady in the middle. It is a very low profile for clearance (less than an inch and in some places 1/2 inch) difference between the ceiling joists and the floor joists, so I'm doing another custom bracketing job here. Fire Block - mineral wool arrived from a roxul distributor and I began some pretty tedious work of fitting sections of drywall in above headers on each wall with the fiber board below this peice and in between (vertically) the walls. If I had thought this through I would have done this step before framing the walls. ie - put the drywall up without the confines of a 2 inch space to deal with for this. Clean House - For a sanity check and to be healthy, I cleaned up after my first round of roxul work. There is still some work to be done, but I let a few work days get on the floor, while I am usually good at cleaning up. Pending Things - Green glue (2 cases) arrived just now. Isolation clips are here. Still need to get the furring channel.

While taking a trek through the site today I found an amazing account of building panels for a studio - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=45 Putting it here for future reference. I may be complete with framing this evening. My brother brought over all the electric boxes I'll need yesterday including smoke and security lines to run. He's all about putting in a pizza beacon light connecting to the doorbell...

I haven't posted in a while because I've been quite busy professionally and personally. I've only managed to steal moments here and there to work, but did on one occasion have two of my brothers help me with putting in insulation, wiring and putting up drywall on the ceiling of the front side. I do have one concept with questions right now: On my double wall sections, Is it a BAD thing for the pink insulation I am using to be touching? Do I want to put effort into ensuring actual air space in between the inner and outer frame? Take a look at that one picture I posted with this entry - that's 2, 2x4 wall frames with R19 in the exterior one. I've fudged it with some wire, but would it be worth doing this for the interior wall? Other stuff - The fire blocking at the tops of the framing is complete on one side (that the ceiling is already up on), but the other side I've not been able to get to yet because of time. Wish I did this prior to framing. Pain in the ass. All boxes are in for outlets. I'm waiting on my brother to get better octagon boxes for the four wall lights in this room. The outlet boxes are the really deep ones and we're using two cheaters or whatever the 5/8 adapters are to reach past a layer of drywall. This is all free and professional grade stuff contributed by my brother and I'm very very glad to have his help. I've been wrapping these with putty pads. He's also prewired for - Door bell beacon (small light). Fire/Smoke detectors at oposite ceiling corners. Motion detector in upper front corner of room. Control panel for security of door if I want to use it. (all the security stuff is part of a larger house project he's helping me with) Everything electric comes out of two PVC peices affixed to the center beam acting as a conduit for low and high power electric lines. Two junction boxes will be placed in this area for us to wire into. All stub wiring is left here. Caulking on the base plates - This may not be a high priority thing for most construction projects here. Mostly I see people dealing with this on their layers of drywall, but while I had time one evening I placed backer rod where it would fit and caullked a line all the way around the parimeter. I also did this in the corner sections where the walls meet. Whatever - if it helps it does if it doesn't I only pissed away 15 bucks.

Statement of my goal for the door assembly - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMNHj4jK8Cw good day.

I'll post pictures after I take them tomorrow, but So far - The independantly framed ceiling has a layer of 5/8 hanging on it. The long wall opposite the doorway (along basement wall, passing under center beam) has drywall on it as well. I put special care in wrapping the outlet boxes in this wall with putty pads and caulking around the outlet holes where the drywall presses against them. Vapor barrier: I put one between the studs and the drywall. I had also stapled plastic against the foundation wall, but this layer is here too. All fireblocking is secured from the top side and the bottom side. Caulked around the edges. What a bitch that was to work through. Tomorrow my brother will be pulling the wiring from the room above in order to re-do some of the wiring. The wiring for the bedroom above comes through this area and actually was the line supporting the two lights on this side of the basement. We are just redoing the wire to the first outlet in the room above. That way, there aren't any junction boxes to deal with inside of the room. I'll need to get 3 more boxes for the light fixtures I am putting on the front and back walls for tomorrow's work. I have two people over to help with things, so perhaps that and more drywall work. Room is starting to get the basketball sound: smack a basketball in your hand and hear how it reverberates? Yeah, that...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10034 Received an answer on compressing insulation between a double wall assembly. I believe I put this as a concept/question in an earlier post here, but at any rate - I like to document a resource for those who may come in after me to view this.

Photos of some drywall work - 027 - Front of room (walk in door, turn right), Double wall is to the right. Tonight I'll have insulation and hopefully drywall here. 025 is one of the light boxes. wrapped in putty pad. When I put these sheets up against the mud rings, I cake them with caulking. 029 - Front corner including the basement system (sump pump) closet. The access panel will be about 4 feet tall. I have not framed this portion of it. 019 - wall section through the center beam. We cover the windows, and then cut the hole for them later on. I'll likely cut them in the next few days before the second layer goes on. We're putting green glue on the boards so I guess we'd cut the form of the window on the second layer to save on green glue. 025 (2007) - Photo of the lattuce work I did for all walls facing the concrete. since we don't have faced insulation for most of this, I wanted to keep it in place without it sliding down throughout time. This also shows the vapor barrier I initially put on the wall and I know full well now this is unnecessary and that it's more important to have that barier in the back of the drywall, so that's what has been done under every board being put up. The underside of the fire blocking can be seen here as well. I basically cut to form around the studs below the top plate. Screwed in a peice of plywood under the peice of 5/8 drywall. The top side has another level of 5/8 with fire rated mineral wooll in between and caulking against the cement. Got the wife thinking about color and fabric down there as well. She's got good judgement in this regard. The tones will be bright in this room as it's a small room and I'd rather have a small bright room than a small dark room.

2008_01_25 006.jpg Bloated wall with R19 - 2008_01_25 007.jpg One sheet covering the bloated r19. 2008_01_25 020.jpg This is the second 4x8 of drywall on the double wall. I had trouble with the shim pinching the bottom of the sheet, so I had a few extra screws around my bottom plate. I use markers with the drywall square on the floor and ceiling to make sure I'm on target with the screws. 2008_01_25 003.jpg Behind the first sheet. Wire leading into corner of wall assembly. notice that there are clips holding the wire up against the inside frame. I gathered that since these are covered with metal that if they contacted the other studs (1.5'' away) there would be flanking, so I made sure there was something pulling this in on every stud. I could have drilled through the stud, but why do that when you have space to deal with? It's been tough to find time to do this. I've got a crapload of work coming at me from the day job, which is cool, but I can't devote solid blocks of effort. So, this leaves me with one side totally covered. I'm hoping that this one drywall distributor near me is open tomorrow (sat) I'd like to get the furring channel work done this weekend, which would leave me free to do the second section of ceiling and all the walls below it.

I spent spare time in the room today taking care of - Mud the tapered joints on first layer - Knightfly has a contribution to one of the sticky threads in the construction forum (http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=20003). This section -

Place the first layer, [...] Wallboard is tapered along the long edge for mud, so be sure to treat this seam as normal drywall finish coat, bringing this "taper" up level with the rest of the wall - you do NOT want any VOIDS between layers. Along this line, also remember this TAPER is only on ONE side of the boards, so it must be placed to the side AWAY from the frame for each layer.

I brought the tapered seams up to the level surface with tape and mud. This was just really quick skim work so it didn't take much. It's actually good because I have some compound which I wouldn't use for finish work because it's old and has some dry clumps in it. I can waste that stuff on the 1st layer and pick out anything too anoying. Remaining Stub Wiring - I had yet to wire power to the lightswitch box from outside the room, so I got that wire hanging where it will be dealt with in a junction box right outside the room. It comes to the swtich box next to the door openning. From that box I have two wires going to the opposing concrete walls that are perpendicular to the entry-double wall. All wiring has been clamped down to the inner walls. I paid special care with running them close to each other (for maintenance reasons) and ensuring that a given wire would not touch the other wall say, in the double wall assembly or over the doorway. Insulation - I put all the R19 I had left in the walls. This was in the left back corner of the room (from entry to the door). Putty Pads - I've been doubling up on putty pad usage for all my outlets. I bought way too much putty pad and I'm also using deep boxes (provided for free by one of my brothers). With the surface area being a larger one to cover than the dimentsions of these pads, I've been spreading out the layers like a pizza maker prior to putting them on and then coming back with another layer to wrap around the first. I am fairly confident that these will not be the weakspot in the system as a normal outlet would be. Clean Up I cannot stress this topic enough. 3 parts to a job - prep, execution and cleanup. At times earlier in the process I'd be too tired to cleanup and in sme cases; I let it go too long. Now, when I finish for the evening I ask myself what I believe I can tidy up to have things in order for the next step. It's helped me think clearly about what I am doing and gives me a clear slate every day. [/b]

Cram wrote:

Clean Up I cannot stress this topic enough. 3 parts to a job - prep, execution and cleanup. At times earlier in the process I'd be too tired to cleanup and in sme cases; I let it go too long. Now, when I finish for the evening I ask myself what I believe I can tidy up to have things in order for the next step. It's helped me think clearly about what I am doing and gives me a clear slate every day. [/b]

+1 on that... Not to mention the safety factor. You could easily step on a piece of 2x4 or something else and twist your ankle, or fall and break something. That there would delay the build for a long time. I do the same thing, clean up after each day. You also can work faster with less clutter on the floor.

Linking resources to the thread today: Fabric for covering treatment - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 1966#71966 Knightfly suggested this one: http://www.natfire.com/products.html myfipie suggested Guilford fo Maine - http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... ilford.asp I'll run this by my designer/decorator.. the one with the ring around her finger.

Photos... 2008_02_08 012.jpg - first layer of drywall on closet for pump.. I would have used a full peice and then cut the hole on the inside of the door hole, but I thought I'd do that on the seond layer and use scrap peices on the underside - being sure to make sure there are no gaps in the seam. 2008_02_08 009.jpg - same thing, but with only the bottom sheet on. vapor barrier on the top. 2008_02_08 008 - pre vapor barrier.. 2008_02_08 one of the two lines for security. this is the control panel line. above it is the light beacon for a switch controlled by the door bell. We like to know when pizza has arrived. I'll be putting caulking around these lines in the small holes. To make the holes I just used a coarse thread screw to pilot a hole and let the threads act as a drill in the hole.. nice tight fit. 2008_02_08 016 - another view of those lines coming out of the wall. Here you can see the light switch. This peice of drywall wraps under the center beam. and in the lower corner is my crappy combo amp that I don't mind leaving in this room for when I'm jonesing for a bit of propper volume... 2008_02_08 017 - support for center beam is now wrapped with the first layer. In the background the first layer has been mudded and taped to fill the gap created by the joining tapered edges of wall board. I have yet to do the ceiling in this room - that is for this week. Normally I wouldn't have put that wall board up on the wall, but I had help on a given day before having the ceiling up and that was teh edge we had to start from to have things line up nicely in terms of hitting the most efficient pattern against the studs. This week - I have help coming for thursday night I believe. I have to get furring channel to mount on the joists. I hope to have the second layer on the side where that basement system closet is. Hopefully I can also have the other ceiling up.