Cram's Basement Jam Room

Ok.. All I have to say is that these two doors - A) Cost me $50 each, which is a great deal in my opinion... B) Are solid core and weigh 88LBS each... I am very happy and eagerly awaiting my trunk rubber shipment. OOOOOH I cannot wait to get this part done...

Great score on the doors! I paid over $300 each for my three doors, and while they look cool and provide for visual communications through the windows, they will never be as sound-proof as yours. Looking good man, keep pushing!

Why a picture of a dot on the wall and lines on the floor??? Because this is where the router tool comes into play. The electric boxes are deep well double gang steel boxes with romex leading into them. The backs of these boxes are covered with putty pads. The front of the boxes have mud rings for 5/8 drywal which brings them to the surface of the first layer. I then applied the second layer over the top of this without cutting holes for the fixtures, but I marked the floor for their measurement up from that point. I took a sharpie and marked all of the outlet spots. With most of the mud and sanding work complete, I took this chore as light duty to whip through. I poke through with a phillips screwdriver and make a fiinger sized hole to feel and confirm that the wires are toward the back of the box. I then trace the mudring shape with the tip of the router bit. I think this is good because it's a smaller facing hole and although this will make a minimal difference - it is a difference to be had. It's also a clean cut facing the room under the plate that will be put in. i think this is one of the advantages of using steel to mount fixtures.

Nice Marc - nice... Hey looking at all that sheetrock dust and scraps laying around made me wince :( The momentum will really start to pick up now. To me, the spackling was nice, it was the calm before the storm. then came the sanding :cry: :cry: :cry: That had to be the absolute worse. I actually needed to mentally psych myself up to go downstairs and face it. I did the ceilings first becasue that was 100% the worse part. Not only the dust, but the physical exhaustion. :shock: But I put myself on a schedule and did two walls per night. In a week, I was done. The sun started to come out :lol: (When reading this next part, imagine that "Cars" song is playing - from "fast times at ridgemont high" -when the girl is getting out of the pool) So now, you crack open that can of paint and apply the first stroke. Ahhh.... look at how nice that looks. The room is cleaned up, no more dust, no more scraps. Smell the paint. The feeling of completion starts to enter the room. The first glimpse of how things will be. Like seeing a two-dimensional sonogram picture of your unborn kid. I was jamming in my place last night and it's getting "broken in" nicely. Soon you too will be jamming and everyone you bring down into the studio, will have their jaw drop, not only from the beauty of the place, but in your ability to build it.

A note on the "spackling" process: Find a good plasterer, not a drywall finisher, and hire him for a few hours to learn the art of putting up mudd. Even if you only learn a few things, watching one of these guys in action will help you get a smother finish that does not require nearly as much sanding as a rough layer. Remember, only put on as much mud as you are willing to sand back off again! Use quality materials like +3 in a premix or mix your own Durabond 20, 40 or 90 if you want to do a huge amount. The 20 works nice since it dries rather quickly (20 minutes) and you can use your trowel to trim off any high points while its still curing. You can save MASSIVE amounts of work with just a little technique on the front end. For an example, my expert plastering guy finishes without the need to sand AT ALL!!!! He's that good. Makes what I pay him really worth it. My 2 cents on that..... -bassman

bassman wrote:

A note on the "spackling" process: Find a good plasterer, not a drywall finisher, and hire him for a few hours to learn the art of putting up mudd. Even if you only learn a few things, watching one of these guys in action will help you get a smother finish that does not require nearly as much sanding as a rough layer. Remember, only put on as much mud as you are willing to sand back off again! Use quality materials like +3 in a premix or mix your own Durabond 20, 40 or 90 if you want to do a huge amount. The 20 works nice since it dries rather quickly (20 minutes) and you can use your trowel to trim off any high points while its still curing. You can save MASSIVE amounts of work with just a little technique on the front end. For an example, my expert plastering guy finishes without the need to sand AT ALL!!!! He's that good. Makes what I pay him really worth it. My 2 cents on that..... -bassman

I agree totally!

BradJacob wrote:

(When reading this next part, imagine that "Cars" song is playing - from "fast times at ridgemont high" -when the girl is getting out of the pool) So now, you crack open that can of paint and apply the first stroke. Ahhh.... look at how nice that looks. The room is cleaned up, no more dust, no more scraps. Smell the paint. The feeling of completion starts to enter the room. The first glimpse of how things will be. Like seeing a two-dimensional sonogram picture of your unborn kid.

Two things - that is a funny visual and way of explaining the acheivment of "paint" I love it. The second is that my wife is actually getting one of those sonograms as an early mom's day present to herself. We never had that with the first.

BradJacob wrote:

That had to be the absolute worse. I actually needed to mentally psych myself up to go downstairs and face it. I did the ceilings first becasue that was 100% the worse part. Not only the dust, but the physical exhaustion. :shock:

How sick is this - I actually view the ceiling work as PT for my shoulder which was operated upon a year ago, next sunday. I swear, my arm and shoulder feels so tight and strong right now. I've basically tied my right hand behind my back (mentally) and forced myself past the fatigue in my left arm while I sanded. No doubt - the toughest is above the head.

bassman wrote:

A note on the "spackling" process: Find a good plasterer, not a drywall finisher, and hire him for a few hours to learn the art of putting up mudd. Even if you only learn a few things, watching one of these guys in action will help you get a smother finish that does not require nearly as much sanding as a rough layer. For an example, my expert plastering guy finishes without the need to sand AT ALL!!!! He's that good. Makes what I pay him really worth it.

Bassman - thanks for the words. A little clarification though - I live in the middle of new england. There are french canadians everywhere and also in half of my family. Some of us were born with a 14'' trowel in one hand. My brother can get certain jobs done in 2.5 coats (if he can line up as many tapered edges as possible... Much like your plasterer. And yes, plastering can be easier to get a smooth coat with the right technique. It's not that bad of work to get through - it's just that this aint the full time job and if it were, I'd have it [mud and sand] done by now. That's the only bitch I have with this part of the process. I don't have the time in some evenings to get sanding AND a proper layer of mud up again. I guess overall - I don't feel right about complaining about the work for one room. But to your point about having a professional resource. Our rugrat turned 3 last week and when my brother was over for the party, checking out my work he gave me a few pointers from what he saw and I whipped through sanding and the next coat that evening because he validated something I was tentative to do - spreading/flanging out a seam if it's not a tapered edge.. I've just got to touch up portions of the ceiling with my fine sanding spounge and finish that soffet and the front of the closet. Then - Je suis fait. On experience and lending confidence to this work - Not sure if you guys noticed Marc's [guitardad72] post from last night, but he recalled how his grandfather taught him how to swing a hammer... I liked reading that because that's how we were brought up. Everyone helps out. Plus, when we got grounded as kids (meaning - in trouble, restricted or punished), we were not simply kept at home or in the house. Dad put us to work. But a nod, handshake and suds for the folks who do these various trades of work man... Especially isolation specific work like this. Everyone in standard trades around here thinks I'm nuts. I can't wait to have them over to hear the in/out of room sound differences when complete...

Not being born with a 14'' trowel in one hand myself I had to ask questions and watch finishers as they worked their craft. One of the best things that I ever picked up was to keep 5 gal buckets of clean water handy. And keep your knives clean from debris at all times. I don't use the fast setting mud, 20s and 30s, it just moves faster then I can keep up (: It's messy at first, slides right off, but with the proper respect, clean damp knives and freshly whipped mud, you can slick on a joint with a minimum amount of sponging/sanding effort on the backend.

Door closers have been acquired ( a big thanks to my brother/bandmate for these) and the spacers for the electric outlets. These were used to bridge the gab between the mud rings off the box that are set 5/8 back. ( a big thanks to my OTHER brother/bandmate for whipping through all 8 of these tonight. While he was working his stuff with those outlets tonight, I was putting two more studs up for an extra 3'' of wall for the doorway. The doors are 32'' and I had the other door in mind which was leaving me with a 39'' space to hold a 36'' door. Now I have a 36'' space for a 32'' door which is better because I'm using 5/4'' pine for the millwork on these doors. The shim space should be about 1/2'' or more on both sides. Reference section Added to Thread Intro I keep coming back to view links I've left for myself and others while doing my research. I got sick of trying to figure out what post these are in, so I created a reference section in the first post. Hopefully it will help those that follow while looking at this.

Well lookey here!!! Trunk rubber. It came with that rubber/contact cement tube supply. I think I got 8 or 9 10ft sections. I picked up 5/4'' pine boards (4) for the door frame sides and a peice of 1'' for the tops of the door frames. In a bedroom Door Threshold - I had made wood shelves in the back of a closet, but pulled the bottom shelve because we needed the lower space in it. That peice of wood is a 12'' wide 3' long peice of 1'' oak. I think I'm going to put some drylock down under the doorway, then perhaps a thin layer of wood underneath that I'll glue it ontop of along with countersinking holes for Tapcon screws to hold it in place. We'll tile right up to the edge and make it nice and neat. Atleast that's the plan after looking at my stock of spare wood. I also found a bunch of 1'' pine that I can rip down to a good width for the door catch and to pinch the trunk rubber down. Work is pretty insane right now so I'm only going to have small spots of time that will likely be spent on other things unless I make some serious gains on that front.

Hello Cram, I hadn't ever checked out your thread before. Wow! Great job documenting your build. Looks like a great place, I'm less than an hour from NH....

Utility Door and Window Covers (Doors as well) I am wrapped up with all the mud and tape work at this point. I am going to get the place primed this week during a night I can find time to do the work. The next steps are for the doors. I have the two solid core doors for the entrance, but there's a utility closet I want to close a 3'x1.5 access hole with. Current Plan Face of Door - snazzy woodwork of my choice which will be either a veneer. Hardware - Standard door knob. THE MEAT OF THE DOOR 3/4'' plywood -------------------------- 5/8'' Drywall 5/8'' Drywall -------------------------- 3/4'' plywood BINDING THE LAYERS- Countersunk carriage bolts with the head underneath the veneer/facing. The business end of the bolt will have the nut pulling on a flat washer and 1x2 strapping. VARIATIONS - The facing layer of 3/4 ply would be a half inch or so wider on all sides. The sides of the door where we could see the drywall would be covered by plywood and joined on outside corners with 45° angles. Those inner sides would be where the door seal would press against. Make this all out of MDF? The inside and sides of this door would be sanded at all contact points and my batch of hard varnish applied to keep abrasion against the seal to a minimum. AND OTHER QUESTIONS - would there be a better design to follow in terms of creating the mass here? I've been poking around in search of an example of a seriously heavy utility door/cover. Window covers - these "doors" would all be inserted into the 3 other basement window frames. They will not be on hinges as the closet will, but will have latches to lock in place. Thoughts? Links? Recommendations?

Marc - I may be wrong here, but I would NEVER put sheetrock as a layer on a door. Over time, that rock will break down and crumble with all the closing of the door. Even if you have a closure that babies it - still seems like a weak link. You have a VERY solid door, then if you attach 3/4" MDF to it, you'll have a lot of mass. If there is any leakage, where will it go? Upstairs? I'm guessing that it won't be loud enough for anyone to hear it. I doubt it will be an issue. Not enough to warrant 2 layers of wood and all the rock. Your door is thick enough. One layer of (3/4) of MDF (it's REAL dense) will you fine. Rod's book mentions sheet lead. If you have the money, get that. I would really concentrate on the trunk rubber and bottom door stop. For comparison: I have a 1-1/8" thick pine door - from Home Depot. I screwed 3/4 MDF to it on the outside. On the inside I have 1/4 masonite ("hardboard") - for looks. I have only one(1) set of door stops - with the trunk rubber. The door weighs a ton, and seals up really tight. The only thing I DON'T have is a proper bottom seal. I actually have about a one inch gap. You can pass someone's dinner to them fro under the door! And when I have my control speakers cranked, at the top of the stairs, you can hear faint music. Faint! When sitting on the couch, nothing... I may not even get a bottom door-seal like I planned. But if/when I do, it will be that auto-sealing one that most people use around the forum. If your door is sealed really good, and you have a solid-heavy door (which you do) and then go the extra step and add 3/4 MDF mass, you'll be fine. At least that's been my experience.

Brad - these are not the main doors. This door will cover a utility closet. I fully understand your point about drywall being brittle... Very good point and I'm glad to hear it before I started. Those doors I have pictured above will not have anything else on them. They are heavy solid core doors and cover the entrance way perfectly. Thank you very much for answering.

More work done this evening - Two more sheets of drywall outside the room. I had never put up the second layer for this last section. Since I'm moving to get the doors in soon, this needed to be done as it wraps the outside of the room around the door. Thanks to the help of my brothers we did this in short order. All outlets now have power. Baseboard (electric) heat box has been stubbed. Utility closet door has been framed. I have a 4x8 sheet of MDF leaning against the wall. Sometime soon; me, my skillsaw, level and a couple of clamps are going to make cuts in that sheet to make a 16x50 (why couldn't my door frame be 48''??? ugh... primer coat is finished. I'm dead tired and have to wake the rooster tomorrow for an early day at the day job... More to come, with pictures of progress. I wore the battery down on the camera snapping shots so nexttime.

Note on pictures so far in this post I just lost all my data (5 pictures uploaded and a 400 server error on the site) so I'm going to bail for now on the update and update this later today. Work remaining - Seal utility closet door - This door is only placed there and doesn't latch to it's catch/jam. I'm sure that we are sufferring transmission loss in this area. Install/Hang exterior door - We only have one solid core door in place with the proper seal around it. The second door needs to be hung. Tile - this is currently on order and will arrive soon. I'm giving myself some good review/contemplation on this one... I think I'm going to pay for this to be done, rather than do it myself. The weather is getting nicer and if I'm going to be in that room when it's warm outside, it's going to be for the purpose of making music. Windows - these will be plugged with the same type of double layer MDF I used for the utility closet door. They will have handles and be faced with woodwork. I need a latching mechanism for these as they will not have hinges. Paint Walls - I fired myself from picking colors... I walked into the store with a printout of the tile color and picked a color. I painted the walls and nearly got a headache from the sight alone. I grabbed a beer and then approached the wife with "help...". She purchased a new color and I can do this quickly in the next week or so. Trim - There's a studio build right now that utilized black trim (it's a link in my reference section where I cite the good work done with a door...). I think I'm going to do the same, or atleast a darker color. I'm going to have 45° 1x4 trim along the top corners and I may keep these as a natural wood color, but I am not absolutely decided at this point. Fire and security - Detectors need to be hung and wired up after the ceiling is painted. Lights Installed - This will be done after I paint the walls. Easy task. Results for sound - I have not taken readings, but we had the full band rehearsing last night and we satisfied my stated goal of people being able to live and listen comfortably one floor above. If one instrument is playing by itself at high volume, only faint murmors can be heard. I am very excited about the results. What does this get me? Drummer can play at any time during the day when over for a visit. We can work well into the morning hours if we're writing music instead of capping our time with drums with the child's bed time. I am so happy with the sound result at this stage. I can't explain it really. It's liberating. This enables so much of my work in music. I've been playing at whisper volumes and picking my spots during the day for too many years.

More photos. 47 is a photo of how I set the closet door up for routing the hinge. 56 is the base of the door. That oak plank is a 1x12'' peice I had used previously as a shelf in another room. I cut it to fit the 32'' door frame and it covers the width of the frame nicely. I used tap-con screws to secure it in place There are 4 of them and they will be covered by the catch/seal of the door.

So great to hear the results are working for you. Makes you feel glorious, eh. "yes! it works!" :) Keep makin' them pix and we'll cuddle ye one more time. Great report. :)

Hey Cram, great news on the sound isolation! I can hear the excitement in your voice! Well, maybe not in your voice since we are online... ok, how about "excitement in your fingers?" No, that sounds kinda sick! How about, "I can sense your excitement?" That sounds better! ;) I am a bit jealous however, since I am getting some significant leakage from the live room into the upstairs. Phase II of my project will involve re-doing the LR ceiling and adding in Air Con silencers which should help, I hope! Awesome job! Keep pushing, you are getting there. It is always a good thing when you can start to make a list of things that are left to do!

It is always a good thing when you can start to make a list of things that are left to do!

Amen to that DH! :wink: Terrific thread Cram, and more congrats on your isolation! :D The end is in sight for you bud. :wink: :wink: Regards, Lou. 8)

I've been constantly pulled away from being able to work on the room, but have found time recently to do some further work. ------------- More Isolation Benefit - We typically play as a 3 peice, but a very talented guitarist friend joined in and I guess I could have managed the volume a bit better, but we were having too much fun. he and the bassist asked for earplugs - myself and the drummer wear them anytime we play. Mine only cut down the higher frequencies which help greatly being next to a few cymbals. With all that going on, we had my wife asleep on the couch in the livingroom of the first floor and my young one down for a nap on the second floor. I can't say enough how much I am enjoying this benefit, which is why I've forced myself to make time for some progress. ------------- I've primed and painted the entire place. I had initially painted the walls with a color I picked out, but after getting totally repulsed by it, my lovely wife went out and found a color I like a lot better. I've wired in the lighting - we got wall sconces (sp?) that look pretty cool from what I see so far. I've started on the trim work. All I am going to do is use 1x4 pine with 45° edges to fit nicely in the corners. These will be painted a shade of the tile flooring due to go in soon. The photo I've attached is my first batch of primed and cut peices. I've got much more to do on this end of things. We've got a silly backorder situation with the tile company. It's taking way too much time. I had hoped to have this in and do the trim work from the bottom up. Starting with the floor trim and the door trim coming down to meet the tile at the right height...

Maybe just one more tool will help ya out? A jamb saw from Lowes or Home depot

y'know... I've used the power tool incarnation of that for a new floor that went into the living room of a friend's house. I couldn't imagine using a hand tool for the floor level trim though. it's a rip cut that'd take a long time and the corners?...

Starting with the floor trim and the door trim coming down to meet the tile at the right height...

Naw boss, you use it by placing it horizontal to the floor @ the door trim area. It allows you to cut the trim and jamb, if they are already installed before your flooring, making an accessible area to slide floor products underneath the trim/jamb! Or are you picking on me ?

not picking on you - I can see the handle is off center from the blade which would lend to using it against the floor or any surface in a corner. the tool I've used is lilke this one