Cram's Basement Jam Room

Adding more photo documentation. Tonight we should be putting up many sheets of drywall. I've got seams on existing first layer work smoothed off. GreenGlue is ready to go. I got furring channel and was able to get a few runs up. Our room has been dubbed "The Rookie Room". 2008_02_08 034 - This is the other side of the center beam housing. Those are two 2x4 peices we will put drywall along. The spacing to the center beam is ~1.5''. I took r13 and pealed half thickness peices from the roll and stuffed the peices in the space between these and the beam. The insulation hanging from the bottom is the same sort of thing, but I stapled the insulation to the bottom of the beam. 2008_02_08 032 - more of that beam. This is where the support column housing is. I used a lap joint for the join on the top peice only because of the height difference I had left the vertical peices compared to those horizontal 2x4 peices. That wire feeds the room above. 2008_02_08 037 - Fire blocking in back corner of room. The forced hot water pipe run goes into the above room from here. The space was tight for this work, but basically along that entire wall - a peice of 5/8 runs that is screwed to the bottom of the floor joists and rides with 1/4-1/2'' of space. This gap was filled with fire rated mineral wool and caulking. The butt end of the drywall against the concrete also had caulking. 2008_02_08 038 - furring channel. had just carried it down from the trip over in the rain... Spent some time plotting out the ceiling layout for furring channel layout and wall board layout. I think I have a good plan at this point.

HA! I guess I'm not the only one who writes on Sheetrock... :wink:

Cram, Just wanted to say Hello and let you know you have another lurker on your thread. I just skimmed your thread, nice job, keep it up!!! Marc

guitardad72, BradJacob - thanks for checking out the build. Brad, years from now when people renovate the various rooms I've worked on in my time, they will be scratching their heads. I've written some funny stuff on the undersides of construction... I'm thinking that I'll actually print that photo out and hang it in the room somewhere. guitardad72 - I've been paying mind to yours as well. Thanks again. More photos after a good night with my brothers - Finally the brother that got me going with framing came back to help. He's not a rookie in the "Rookie Room"... Honestly that guy flies through drywall like it's nothing. So with the three of us at it for the hours of 5:30 to 8 the progress is noted here. One thing that sucks about this build is that there really isn't a great way to have drywall boomed in from the outside. So a lot of our time is spent lugging sheets down. It's a pathetic feeling in the hands while at the end of a trip with 2 sheets at once... the last 10 paces are mind over matter.. But on this day, my two brothers actually did most of that work with me only doing some the heavy work at the end. Can't even begin to explain how grateful I am. Photos - 2008_02_08 041 - There is a 1'' main line for the forced hot water heat that runs perpendicular to the floor joists, right in the middle of the ceiling span. In order to create more space for the Isolation Clips / Furring Channel assemblies, I added some scrap wood as another 1/4'' increase to make SuRE I wasn't touching the pipe. I also got a bunch of copper fasteners for making sure the pipes were tight up against the floor joists. 2008_02_08 043 - This is the view of how they all sat together.. A test with my 4' level showed that I had around a 1/2'' clearance. 2008_02_08 043 - this folks... is the last 6'4'' of exposed framing... At the top, I have to box in the drain pipe. I will be doing this next along with all the caulking work I have to do around the leaves. 2008_02_08 046 - Back wall sealed up. 2 light fixtures, 2 outlets and 1 outlet for a baseboard heater. Upper right is the smoke detector wire. All seams have been skimmed to fill the gap between layers. This only has the first layer of wall board up. 2008_02_08 048 - view of beam and support column wrapped up. That ceiling in the very top has the second layer of wallboard up with Green Glue in between. 2008_02_08 052 - I'm including this one because it illustrates the value of marking where the furring channel's line up for the next layer of wall board as well as where the copper pipe runs are. I do not want to puncture a pipe at this point.

Its all coming along great can't wait for the fit out stage. Having your brothers help is great. I had my 2 help me out which worked great till my younger brother decided to use a metal stud as a guide for cutting the plasterboard, sharp side up :!: Blood is'nt that easy to paint over you know :lol: Looking good, Keep up the good work Cheers Alan

medboyle wrote:

Its all coming along great can't wait for the fit out stage. Having your brothers help is great. I had my 2 help me out which worked great till my younger brother decided to use a metal stud as a guide for cutting the plasterboard, sharp side up :!: Blood is'nt that easy to paint over you know :lol: Looking good, Keep up the good work Cheers Alan

Classic story.. I too will drift into using *other* tools for the job at times. This is what I base my safety off - My dad told me his reminder to stop stupid mistakes - He takes a small paint brush and flicks blood red paint onto the top of his radial arm saw. that way when he sets up for a cut - it's a reminder (even if a fake one) that if you have your hand on a peice with that thing - you could easily wind up in trouble if you're not set up right. Windows - I'm reviewing the thread here this morning with y'ole coffee and noticed that it may not be clear to a viewer that I am simply covering up the windows temporarily - I'll take the router and cut the rough openning when I've finished the layers. HVAC - NONE... That's right - none. It's a "rec room" as far as code goes. There are *windows*. All of which will be closed up with small removable mass I'll design to fit. The house doesn't have forced air in the basement. It all comes from the attic and serves the first and second floor. Given the expense for dropping a run down to the basement and/or getting a sub unit to push air into this room vs the benefit of use.. I voted no on hvac. Plus I get to say - NO I'M NOT OPENNING THE DOOR - WE ARE GOING TO GET THIS SONG RIGHT, EVEN IF WE REPEAT IT TILL WE'RE BLUE IN THE FACE!!! Well, maybe not

Rigid Fiber Board Panels I believe I have 5 of these. I don't know the manufacturer or any details past where I found them. When we purchased the house these were in a suspended ceiling I removed from our three season porch when I converted it into 4 seasons. They have this thin plastic coating on one side (that's the side that was placed down in the suspended ceiling). I'm trying to apply these as treatments for the room upon completion. I've held a torch to one of them and it's all fiber glass. They didn't go great white on me, so I think that settles that test... Anything else I should be considering for using these?

One More Night of Work Worked solo tonight for about an hour and a half. I got a bunch of detail work done like caulking edges of the drywall put up last night. The entire room has wall board on the framing now. Mostly the first layer. Tonight I started on the second layer of two walls. The photos are of these peices being applied. Green glue and all. 2008_02_08 058.jpg - First peice I put up... You can see in the upper right corner where I have the shim in position. Heh - this board kissed the bottom of my flannel shirt: it's tough working a 4x8 peice by yourself without getting touched if that stuff is close to the edge. 2008_02_08 059.jpg - and here it is on the wall, complete with backer rod and caulking. 2008_02_08 060 - next peice that completes the run from the front corner to the door openning. 2008_02_08 061 - starting on the next wall's bottom run. 2008_02_08 062 - and with it up on the wall... 2008_02_08 063 - the last peice I put up tonight. Lower peice to complete the run on the front wall from corner to closet. I am one ISO clip SHORT... I started to frame the box to go around the drain pipe in the back corner of the room when I decided to count my iso clips to make sure I had enough... This is the area it would cover - (well, that's a pic from last night: I covered the framing with wall board tonight, but that drain pipe in the upper corner.. ) One short... wtf... Clean up and OUT... until next time.

Cram (what is your real name?) - I recomend John's Manville acoustic panels. Get the 2'x4'x2" (6lbs.) panels. I JUST got done cutting them up for my bass traps. (photo essay will follow on my site). I paid $80.13 for 9 panels (72 sq. Ft.) Got them here: http://www.spi-co.com/ They have a lot of locations across the country - and also ship. It takes about 5.5 panels for one(1) super-chunk bass trap with a 24" face. (8 triangles per panel). I have about 18 more panels for my hanging acoustic panels. Hmmm... seems I just went off on a "basstraps" tangent, when all you were asking was panels. I hope this helped anyway. :oops:

BradJacob wrote:

I recomend John's Manville acoustic panels. Get the 2'x4'x2" (6lbs.) panels. [...] I paid $80.13 for 9 panels (72 sq. Ft.) Got them here: http://www.spi-co.com/ [...] It takes about 5.5 panels for one(1) super-chunk bass trap with a 24" face. (8 triangles per panel). [...]Hmmm... seems I just went off on a "basstraps" tangent, when all you were asking was panels. I hope this helped anyway. :oops:

The reference here is much appreciated. I will be likely to put two bass traps in this room on opposing corners. I have to do more work with an empty room when all the parts of the room are complete. I've already got a huge amount of stock wood to pull from in order to build slats so I think it's going to look dead sexy with alternating texture and stain... I recall your post in the acoustic forum with the Mainville product being much cheaper for little to no difference from owens c... I'm picking my spots this afternoon to continue on the second layer along the walls. The next wall peice has a cut for the center beam, lightswitch, and two wires I have to pull through. All of this while the backside has green glue on it. I shall grow another hand in order to do this myself...

BradJacob wrote:

Cram (what is your real name?) -

Marc "Lysdexics® of the world UNTIE!!!"

Progress I have one side of the room with 2 layers on the ceiling, and two layers on two of the walls. That's progress to me and especially in the time I had to do it today... 2008_02_08 028.jpg - sheet on floor... 2008_02_08 029.jpg - sheet not in wall... 2008_02_08 030.jpg - sheet on wall... 2008_02_08 032.jpg - that is a double layered wall and ceiling. ... and repeat and repeat... After cleaning up, I put a skim coat on the nail heads and two of the seams in the wall. I may putt around making sure all holes are filled with caulking too a bit later this evening. Observation - It's pretty cool to tap a single layered wall and hear a sound and then tap the double layered walls and hear that deep "thud" sound...

Hi Cram Man, your in fire, your running like crazy ( nice job still). I wish i had the same determination as you to take all these nice pics and comment all of your progress.( i have a huge backlog). It's comming to life ! Keep it up.

orangenumerik wrote:

Hi Cram Man, your in fire, your running like crazy ( nice job still). I wish i had the same determination as you to take all these nice pics and comment all of your progress.( i have a huge backlog). It's comming to life ! Keep it up.

Thanks. You should see the collection of photos I have for every project I've done in the home; deck, sun porch, walkway, plumbing behind walls on and on... Funny though - I was just stealing a moment to put up a few sheets down there and the sharpie marks on the floor were fuzzy for where the studs lined up near the sump pump closet.. Came up to my laptop and wouldn't you know; there was barely any clear framing pictures for me to view as a reference. I figured it out, but was musing about how I missed that... and with that - photos. This all seems redundant, but more sheets, more glue. on floor and up on wall... Maybe someone would find use for what's being done (good or bad). 2008_02_13 002.jpg on floor. Note again that I didn't pilot a hole for the outlet yet.. I'd like these to be as small as I can make them on the second layer so I'll use a router to trace the inside of the metal mud ring used for all these outlets. 2008_02_13 004.jpg is up on the wall. Seams don't lay ontop of each other between layers. 2008_02_13 010.jpg - HEY NOW! looks like someone forgot to cut the sheet before applying GGlue to the board.. I found a scrap peice of wood and used it as a trowel to push the glue back on to the part of the sheet that would compress against the wall. 2008_02_13 019.jpg - the first peice for the ceiling on the utility pipe side of the beam... It has furring channel with ISO clips. That's my redneck method of getting a hand on the other side of the sheet.. My elevator if you will. A simple T will go a long way. Caulk Between the Layers 2008_02_13 021.jpg - I'm not sure if this will do a damn thing, but it seems to me it will. You see, that's the bottom horizontal layer peice with a bead of caulk ontop of it. I then put the top horizontal peice on top of it and the caulking is compressed between the two sheets. So effectively on most all of the seams where I could do this I have. Especially on the walls. IT's always the back side of the board where they meet. Then the other side of the seam gets mud and tape. Anyone ever do this? I've been hyper anal about things like this. I've had several people who are general and specialty contractors shake their heads at me and call me paranoid, a geek (which to me, is a compliment), psychotic and insane... Oh, one guy called me a moron and a tool, but those are the names we typically refer to one and other with.. that one is a wash in my opinion.

Cram - I didn't caulk the bottoms of my sheetrock (both layers). The rock just sat flush on the floor - hey, these things happen, right? :roll: But, I haven't experienced any sound problems. I have base-trim so that helps to seal it up too.

BradJacob wrote:

Cram - I didn't caulk the bottoms of my sheetrock (both layers). The rock just sat flush on the floor - hey, these things happen, right? :roll: But, I haven't experienced any sound problems. I have base-trim so that helps to seal it up too.

note - the bead of caulking I am referring to is in the middle of the wall where two sheets butt up against each other. I've also got the shims lifting each peice of sheetrock. Backerrod and caulk on every layer. I'll be having tile put in at some point which will bring the floor up a little bit (never touching the walls though). I'll use 4'' trim around the floor that will also float with the gap filled with yet more caulking and backerrod. I think that my flanking points aside from the doors I'll have to construct for three windows, one util closet and the main door is the outside of the double framed wall is flush against a double joist running along the stairwell. So effectively - sound could come through the inside layer and affect the outside frame, travel right up through the floor and negate the two layers of sheetrock I have on the outside for that second leaf. I went heavy on the GGlue for this inside layer though. Perhaps that will knock down some of the vibrations..

More - I screwed up last night and put up a peice that didn't quite meet the next stud, so I had to pull it down. This is the second layer so we also have to deal with GreenGlue in between. It was a bit of gentle work in order to get it off. First I had to score the peice along where I wanted the drywall to break. Then I had to cut it at an angle along the score line, leaving a "V" shapped gash through the sheet in order to pull up on the board without damaging the peice I wanted to keep up. Then I took a combination of putty knife, prybar and assorted scrap drywall and plywood to inch the peice away from the existing wall. The greenglue was pretty tacky so it took a while. I had to go bit by bit. Surface tension experiment here - think of ripping a peice of toilet paper quickly vs pulling on the roll slowly... These are the photos - 2008_02_13 030.jpg - peice scored and ready to be pealed off. 2008_02_13 032.jpg - pealing the scrap end off. 2008_02_13 033.jpg - green glue turd. 2008_02_13 036.jpg - peice with gglue on and screwgun ready.. 2008_02_13 036.jpg - empty spot where I cut down the old peice and the green glue turd is exposed. 2008_02_13 036.jpg - finally up...

Fire Alarm Wire on Ceiling (working with a ceiling peice all by myself...) I had to screw a peice of drywall containing greenglue to the ceiling with only two hands to work with. I have my makeshift "T" that I lean against the wall just below the ceiling which acts as a platform for me to screw in on the other end and then work my way to the "T". This peice was a bit of a problem because I want to make sure that I leave a hole for the fire alarm wire that is hanging down. It took me 1/4 of a beer to figure this out, but this is what I did. Used scrap wire tied to the end of this with electric tape. The length extended the wire to the ground. After measuring where the hole would land, I punched a small hole through the drywall with a phillips screwdriver. I then fed the wire through the new hole with the peice leaning against the wall. I then applied greenglue to the drywall with the wire now sticking through it. I lifted the drywall above my head and tried to pull the wire through as I lifted with one hand while my head and other hand held the board above... Some of the wire (through slack created during lift) got glue stuck to it and consequently on my hands. But the peice made it up there and I was happy to have it done. 2008_02_13 023 - Wire set to go. 2008_02_13 025 - Wire through. Pre green glue. 2008_02_13 027 - ready to go: screwgun up on ladder. Wire through board. "T" in place. 2008_02_13 028 - the peice is up. wire is pulled all the way through.

Lookin good buddy...

Two Layers all the way around at this point. Well, there's a soffet section that needs to be covered, but I can bang that out in an afternoon when the additional clips get here. Been doing this by myself for a couple of weeks now. Most nights for an hour or two... So things have slowed from a pace I'd like to have with four hands as it were. All lines are taped at this point. I've put about 2 hours of sanding work in and have applied 1 (and in some spots, 2) skim coats after the initial coat. I bought a bunch of those metal edge peices to wrap the outside edges for the support beam, column box, sump pump closet and soffet. I have not installed them yet though - I'd be done with that as well, but I'm operating with a little child upstairs trying to get shut eye... There's a heap of IRONY in that fact at this point of sound isolation construction. Bought some primer that I may get to by mid week. But right now - I'm going to kick back for an hour or so with some fine spirits... good evening. Edit to add progress: (9:12 AM 2/20/2008) My entire existence in this room right now - Nightly sessions of ~1-2hrs mud, tape, seams and screw holes sanding any imperfections with the skim coat last applied. shine light at 10° angle of wall to expose/form shadows on imperfections circle imperfections for the next skim coat. - repeat. Everytime I do this sort of work, I am reminded of the little details that aren't in the forefront of my mind. Air bubbles underneath the tape for example. This is paper tape I speak of. No matter how many skim coats you put over an imperfection like this, it will always bubble up when the moisture of the mud hits it, so the thing to do it cut out the air hole when it is dry and lay it over a new peice of tape to trace the pattern of your cut peice. Place mud under the hole you just cut out, insert the new peice and then mud over it. - I'm taking my time for this step because I HATE seeing bumpy walls because someone got lazy with it. Plus, I have a distinguished community to judge my work - a brother who can work a wall to perfection within 2 coats for example... so I'd like to do him proud on this one. Plus, I had shoulder surgery a little under a year ago and this is a great addition to my therapy. I don't think I've sanded an inch of my walls with my good shoulder.

Cross Referencing my post about the order of trunk rubber. Review of Experience I realize this info has been slated as a sticky or atleast it was mentioned in that thread, but there were some negative reactions to dealing with the online merchant so I provided a review to inform anyone who's tentative about it. On the build - I've just been continuing on with the mud and tape work. Things are getting smooth in spots that were previously a bit bumpy. Last night I took care of air bubbles behind tape. They looked good in the morning after the mud dried. I think my lovely bride the warden is ordering tile and sconce lighting for the room as well.

STILL haven't boxed in the soffet. I'm doing it this week if it kills me. I've been doing mud and sand work for the last two weeks. I bought those metal peices for the outside edges of the center beam and support. As well as the closet for the sump pump. Those are up and I've been putting coats of mud to make it smooth as can be. I've had my brother over (resident expert in technique here...) and he gave me a few pointers on the trouble spots I'm working through. Ongoing planning - Doors & Windows - Trunk rubber is on order of course. I was just told today by a family member that his company has two solid core oak doors sitting around that are waiting to be tossed... I can't wait to see them. Two solid core doors would be just grand now wouldn't they. Door closer assemblies - those will come in two weeks or so. TILE - my lovely bride the warden has just ordered +20sf of tile for the room. My bro says I can use his wet saw any time but the beginning of april so hopefully I can work that in. Lighting - sconce lighting has also been ordered. . http://www.lampclick.com/lighting/item/ ... anity.html Not from that vendor, but we did get them for $60ea.

Marc - Watch out where you mount those lights - remember to leave room for bass-traps. There's been a few of US buffoons who made that very mistake. :shock: I liked your post on my thread, it made me laugh! Keep up that great progress. What's your ETA to finish?

BradJacob wrote:

Marc - Watch out where you mount those lights - remember to leave room for bass-traps. There's been a few of US buffoons who made that very mistake. :shock: I liked your post on my thread, it made me laugh! Keep up that great progress. What's your ETA to finish?

Lights should be ok. They are close, but they still should be ok. ETA - bleh! I'd say a date, but there are so many factors [other hands getting involved to help | Family | work load of day job]. I have some good time ahead of me so I hope to have paint up next weekend. From that point, I'm going to be constructing the doors for the main entrance and then the closet in the corner of the room. The basement windows though... These will only be holes in the wall 15/30'' and I'm going to construct covers for these with a gasket going all the way around. There will not be any hinge work for these. I'm just trying to think about how to secure these to their spots - I keep coming back to a type of toggle latch that we may see on anvil cases: I have to work it out though. Not sure. What I did do is simply put temporary wall board over these holes. I'll cut this out after I paint and get the room in order.

pictures of the boxed in soffet around the drain pipe from the batroom as well as a picture or two of the closet around the pump for the basement system. The basement system closet was only this one peice left to cover the top peice.

Pictures - 2008_03_05 049 - I used some scrap foam as the spacer as well as some hockey puck tape to keep it in place. 2008_03_05 050.jpg - first piece up. 2008_03_05 054.jpg - this likely isn't the sort of method used by most, but the vertical peices' quarters were slim. the span of the risc clips was nearly as wide as the clearance. So I screwed 2x4 peices to the top of the bottom peice as a way of screwing in the side peices. eh... 2008_03_05 055.jpg - it's up and I'm good with it all.. 2008_03_05 056.jpg - swirleyzzzzz..... The soffet will actually have three layers. I have a crap load of drywall left over from scraps that will comprise this so I figure I could put a triple duty of sheet up with gg in between the three and stagger the seams. each seam has a healthy dose of silicon on the underside and any tapered edge has mud to flatten it out.