Please Help me - Building My Studio With Noise Isolation! ;)

You can see in Picture 8 (the picture of the footers) that broken 2x10 laying there on the ground. In order to be able to dig these footers in such tight quarters, they had to dig them while inside the perimeter, then they tried to ramp (using the 2x10's) over the footers and out along the side of the house to get the backhoe out. Needless to say, it didnt work and the 2x10's snapped like toothpicks (as they said they probably would) lol :shock: :lol: We ended up putting 2 more 2x10's down, but also blocking them up underneith with 8" block. That worked like a charm. :wink: Otherwise I would have been building myself a studio around a stuck backhoe and asking you guy how to isolate sound around backhoe?? :lol: :lol: :lol: (Would I have to double wall around the backhoe or not?) :lol: :lol: It was interesting to say the least. :wink: Thanks AJ Also I couldnt post this in the last post (musta met my upload capacity) but here is a picture of the day I started.

Great pics! Congratulations... Good luck with the inspection.

Good News!! :D The footer inspection passed. Inspector came, ran the measurements, checked the trenches,,,,then stood there in the rain and told me everything about him and his life for the next 45 minutes. LOL :lol: I figured...O'well...might as well listen and be interested since this guy (my new found friend) :lol: will be doing all my inspections. :wink: After hearing about his: Divorce and All the Money He Lost The New Septic Service He Just Put In His new Girlfriend and her divorce Both Their Divorces / Kids / And The Money They Lost His 4 Wheeler That He Owns All His Family and Their 4 Wheelers They Run Where They All Live Plus Much much more....lolol :lol: :lol: After all that, I finally got the "and yes your footer inspection passed!" lol Man I hope I dont have to do through all this everytime, or it will be like the movie Groundhog Day! :lol: :lol: :lol: (Now I know what the definition of Babbeling REALLY is!!) :shock: Anyway,,,,excavators just called. Too much rain today, so tomorrow will probably be put on hold. They will come out and check the wetness tomorrow and then if its drying, shoot for Friday to pour the 6" footer base. Below is a picture is the beautiful mess out there today.... :evil: Thanks AJ

Repeat after me, in practice for your next inspection...

"Aha." "Really?" "You don't say!" "Wow!" "That's amazing!" "And you lived to tell the tale!" "Ha! That's what I say all the time! (Yell towards house) Isn't that right, honey?!" "Wow, those are great boots -- where did you get them?" "Yeah, tell me about it!" "Man, I know what you mean..." "No kidding!" (Or... "No kidding?!")

These remarks, if well rehearsed and sincere-sounding, will contribute to future inspection passes. :lol: :lol: :lol: Anyway... Water in the footing trenches! That looks familiar -- my trenches did that too -- in spite of the fact that mine was inside a covered garage!! That's right -- my water table is sooooo high that my two-foot deep trenches filled with over a foot of ground water after a heavy rain!! :shock: I had to run a pump while chipping away at my existing foundation with an electric impact hammer! :lol: This is looking great. Keep it up! And enjoy the break that the inclement weather brings you. --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok..I'm bored!! :? Rained hard yesterday :evil: ,,,,,,now VERY nice out today (but is what they call "a dryout day"),,,and now they say tomorrow might also be a dryout day as well. I am getting antsie with no dirt, machines or hammers moving around here. lol :lol: I even took off work for this! :twisted: LOL :lol: Today however, I did go get a sump pump, and put it in the trenches and pumped them dry (well down to the mud) and I raked out some of the track marks in the yard from the backhoe, so that looks much better,,,,,but I want/need more progress then just that! lol :wink: Now they say, they may not pour concrete in till Monday,,,and the plumbers (who were also to be here today) called and said not till Monday for them either. :evil: :evil: Man, my wife took my son and went to Vermont today to check out colleges over the weekend, and I thought I was going to be able to get things done while they were gone. :cry: O'well,,,seems nothing till Monday now. Guess we will report back then. Thanks AJ

Enjoy the break -- it's one of the few you'll have! :lol:

Well...break is over. The weather still is not fully cooperating, but today the plumbers showed up and we ran pipes (in the drizzle). :D Had to punch through the foundation of the garage, then use a K-12 (Circular Saw) and cut through the concrete garage floor, Sledge all that out, then punch through the basement wall into the basement. What a mess that was, but...its all done, pipes are ran, and the inspector will be here tomorrow at 9:30AM for the pressure test on the rough in plumbing. I got a very cool idea from Glenn in the Design forum that I really liked which was reversing the bathroom and the stairs and going with straight stairs from the enterance area up to the loft, but after looking and measuring (which it would actually fit) but it was going to be fairly close as far as head room where the steps came out at the top. Then the plumbers came and said, they also build houses and thought the original way with the "L" shaped stairs might work out better in this particular layout. But man did I like Glenn's idea alot. :D :wink: Anyway, they ran the plumbing, and so I am now pretty much stuck with what we decided on the spot today. Tomorrow at 7AM the concrete will arrive for the footers, and we will get that poured. Tomorrow should be a long hard day. We will have to wheelbarrel the concrete back, and into the footers due to how soft the ground is from all the recent rain. Thats a pretty long run from the street to the footer area. :evil: :shock: I'll get some pictures hopefully tomorrow. Couple of quick questions as we go: 1 - I asked the people doing the concrete work about having to cover the pad when its done and keeping it covered during the winter (they say there are special ccover/blanket for this) so the pad dosent get wet and freeze and crack etc. He said it was not needed>? He said after 15 days to set up, it will be fine, and I can just cover it with a tarp if I choose. Does this sound right?? and 2 - The codes requires I put down 2" thick insulation that has an R-10 rating 2 feet in all the way around the perimeter of the pad, which will then be under the pad. Then he recommended (but its not required) that I might want to put this stuff down everywhere under the whole pad, because then I will surely notice like a 15 degree difference being totally insulated under the pad. It sounds like a good idea, but that stuff at R-10 rating (2" thick) isnt cheap. Do you think if I ran the R-10 around the perimeter and 2ft in as required, then filled in the rest of the area with like an R-5 (1"), Would I still get decent (noticable) results? Its half the price, and still would be insulating under the whole pad. And the cheaper R-5 would only be in the middle area which is surrounded by the R-10, one would think it should work almost as well....right?? :?: Also he suggested ( but not required) that i put a 6 mill barrier down under the pad as well. This I will definetly do. Let me know what you think and Thanks as always! :wink: I am off to bed. Been up for almost 36 hours now. My d@mn fulltime job, playing fireman, really messes up the building of my Studio! :evil: :lol: :lol: Nite AJ

Wow, you are going to be busy tomorrow! Too bad you aren't going to have a concrete pump like Marc did three weeks ago. :roll: (Don't miss the video snippet! 8)) This is what you've got to look forward to tomorrow (in terms of moving concrete)! :twisted: Good luck!! Take lots of pics!! --Keith :mrgreen:

FOOTERS ARE DONE FINALLY!!! :D :D :D Today went rather well, and actually pretty quick with what we had to deal with. The mud/clay was so wet from all the rain, it was like walking in glue. :evil: But we layed out about 10 pieces of Plywood around, and put a 2x10 over the plumbers trench and went to town. Wheeled it all through the garage from out front and into the footers. Only twice did someone slip into the footer, wheelbarrel and all. :lol: :lol: (but no one was hurt,,,except their pride and ego) :lol: :lol: Since we had to start at 7AM by shoveling out the fall-ins and clean up the bottom of the trenches, we ended up making the footers about 8" thick instead of 6". The guy in charge said "if you wanna save a couple dollars, you can pay the concrete guy direct without going through me, and that will save ya 10%,,,so I did. Spent $560.00 on concrete. :P While the concrete truck we was here, I called the plumbers and asked if I could just 1B stone the opening in the garage floor and get that filled and finished with concrete awhile (save time and money) they said the inspector will want to see in the hole first (he was coming out at 9:30AM today) but the concrete truck was going to leave. :evil: So I called the inspector and he said "go ahead and just get it filled while they are there" so that was pretty cool. :wink: Inspector showed up for the plumbing and took a picture and said we used the wrong copper pipe (they require K copper pipe for any buried pipe) but said he wasnt going to make us rip it all out and he approved the plumbing. :D He didnt even bother pressure testing the lines since there is only 1 - 45 degree angle in the whole thing. So that was quick and easy. :D Below are a couple pics I was able to take this morning. The mason guys said, they will either do the block this week, backfill and then put the stone down, or if the weather holds, they will pour the pad and cover it with a blanket for the winter. (changed his mind from yesterdays "no blanket needed" theory) :lol: Then that will be it until framing starts in the spring. Commmonnnnnn April!!!! :D Now I am off to buy the wife the new Stove she has been wanting,,,how can I say no to her now>? :oops: :lol: :lol: Thanks again, AJ Here are some pics.

Here are 2 more pics from todays events... Thanks AJ

Wow!!! Very exciting! You're sure moving fast! Nice break on being able to fill that hole in the garage without inspection, and again on technically not having the correct kind of pipe and getting a "pass" in spite of that. So, what's the worst thing that could happen as a result of using the wrong pipe? Is it that the kind you used is more subject to deterioration and leakage/breakage over time? And is that what's under the hole in the garage that you filled with concrete already? I hadn't seen very many concrete pouring photos here until I poured my slab. 8) I think I've started a trend! :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

So, what's the worst thing that could happen as a result of using the wrong pipe? Is it that the kind you used is more subject to deterioration and leakage/breakage over time? And is that what's under the hole in the garage that you filled with concrete already? I hadn't seen very many concrete pouring photos here until I poured my slab. 8) I think I've started a trend! :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, Actually its funny you say that because when I was snappin away today on pictures, I actually remembered your pics on your thread and said to myself "I better get some pictures of the pour, and the concrete truck in my driveway like Keith did! :lol: :lol: So thats exactly what I did. :wink: As far as the wrong type copper pipe, the K pipe is what these plumbers typically use for services to the houses, but not plumbing thats going to be interior (whether its underground or not). The Codes guy (Mr Groundhog Day) said that he thinks the ordinance, stating the use of K type copper, is because it supposed to last longer, and is more durable underground. But he then said "That has yet to be proven worth justfifcation to me". Thats why he didnt get too hung up on it. The plumbers said it IS a little more durable, but in this situation it wont make much of a difference. So,,,all is well on that end, we got wrapped up today with the footers, and I went and got the wife her new Stove, just to come home with the new pigtail for on the back of it, for when they deliver it tomorrow, just to find out that the last home owner hardwired the current stove directly up through the floor. :evil: My afternoon was getting and wiring a 50Amp stove recepticle in the kitchen :evil: O'well...kept me busy! :D After the 2" of forcasted rain tomorrow goes away, the mason will be here to lay the 4 courses of block. Said it should take him about 1 day to do. If the weather cooporates, maybe this will be done by the weekend or mid next week. :wink: Then just a couple days of decent weather and the slab will be poured. Otherwise if it gets cold quick, it will have to wait till Spring. :cry: (as long as at least teh 2B stone is down to get rid of all this darn mud!! :x Thanks again :wink: AJ

You going to have time to dig a nice deep and wide ditch where your inner walls will go? (Remember?) The wider it is, the more flexibility you'll have to nudge the walls in your design prior to framing. Good golly, the last homeowner hardwired the stove? :roll: Please have him contact me so that I can give him the building codes lecture... :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

I plan to keep the area for the dividing wall between the control room and tracking room deep and wide enough for a small footer under the pad. Now, I have a question I hope someone can answer> My wife and I have been kicking around the layout design(s) tonight once again, and came across a question. We have discussed "splayed walls" on here, and have certainly seen many examples of such,,,,but the reason I never liked them (although I will be doing them) is because the space they take up. Now here is the question I pose,,,,,I recently visited a commercial studio in Hershey, Pa and in their tracking room, they had their one main wall in the room angled, BUT it was angled from floor to ceiling instead of from side to side (wall to wall). My guess is it started at the bottom of the wall a couple inches from the exterior wall, then at the top it was slanted in probably a foot or so. Would angeling a wall up and down work as well as side to side??? There is a lot less needed space at ceiling height. :?: :? If making a wall angle this way works, I think I'd rather do mine that way. I tried to draw an example if 2 scenerios. Thanks as always, AJ

See this thread: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0 Splaying side walls is important. Are you sure that wall in Hershey studio was not a false wall covered in fabric with absorbers behind it? Also there are poorly designed PRO studios out there. I still think you should throw of the wall between TR an CR off by 12 degrees, OR 78 instead of 90 to exterior walls. It may be hard to design bath and stairs in though :roll: The loft would have the same shape as 1st floor CR. Have you been to: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Click on ACOUSTICS on left. John does a pretty good job of explaining splay. Also if you've not, I suggest reading the entire SAE site. Have you bought Rods book yet? Gulfo is doing a nice job (so far) on your design thread so I've decided to hold off :oops: Marc

Don't have the IBC on this machine, but I'd be very surprised if tilted walls were allowed - I know I would NOT do that, period. Only possible exception might be for soffit baffles, if it became necessary to tilt monitor speakers slightly - but NEVER for a load-bearing wall, period. Was this something you're considering for your live room, or the CR? Steve

Hey Marc and Steve, At the studio I was at, theirs was done on the main wall of their tracking room. It slanted inward slightly from the floor to the ceiling. It was a huge room/wall as well (about 2+ stories high). I was asking for the tracking room in my case. That wall would be only 8ft high before the ceiling peak starts. But if its a safety issue, I wont do it. I was just checking out any and all options. The normal 12 degree splay that seems to be the way to go just seems as though it uses up alot of space. Since my space is limited (being a home project) I was just checkin. Well,,,today the block was delivered for the footers. You would think they would have put them in the driveway, but nooooo, they stacked them in the front yard instead. :shock: :roll: But the mason called and said he will be working this weekend, and all should be completed as far as footers by Sunday and the block will be gone. :D Next step is the pad :D then its time to hibernate till Spring. :cry: :cry: Thanks again AJ

If you zig-zag your splayed walls, you can have a series of 12 degree angles without losing so much floor space, and you'll avoid the dreaded parallel wall situation. Not to hit a nerve, but I wonder if you could have had a slab the shape of a parallelogram... ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

If you zig-zag your splayed walls, you can have a series of 12 degree angles without losing so much floor space, and you'll avoid the dreaded parallel wall situation. Not to hit a nerve, but I wonder if you could have had a slab the shape of a parallelogram... ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, I am playing with the zig zag idea,,,but Glenn has been posting sketchup drawings in the Design Thread that will possibly flip the whole design around :shock: :D . But this new design is very cool, and opens up more area. With that, I will be able to do the splayed 12 degree walls and still have plenty of room (I think). :wink: I'll have to wait to hear, and read the feedback on my today's posts to see where we stand. Anyway, yesterday was Sunday and the block layers showed up at around 7:30AM. :shock: lol They were all done, packed up and gone by around noon. (I thought that was real fast). The job they did looks good, but there is one part where I might have my first snag! :twisted: :shock: :cry: Take a look at the pictures below, of them laying the block. When they dug the footers, they set it up that the new exterior wall by the family room will exactly line up flush with the existing family room wall. If thats the case, shouldnt they have dug the footer and laid the block the whole way back to the house to support that 14ft span of the family room existing wall (see pics 6.jpg & 8.jpg below) since another load supporting wall will be built there>?>? :roll: :oops: They stopped the footers and the foundation AT the family room as if it was to tie in at that point to the existng footer (what I thought they were going to do) but the way it ended up, now the new block does not line up with the existing family room footer,,,,,,nor does it extend all the way back to the house>?>? :shock: Is this a mistake,,,or am I missing something here?? And IF they made a mistake by not running the footers all the way back to support the wall by the family room, is there a way to easily fix that so support is there?? Or dosent that span need supported>?>? Maybe this is normal construction and all is ok....but it just dosent seem right to me>?>? Check out the pics below and let me know what you all think. Thanks again,,,as always AJ

Well, I had the codes inspector come back out today and take a look at the block foundation thats now not lined up with the Florida room foundation. I asked him for his advice, and he said he didnt think it was that big a deal, and that the pad will support that 14ft unfootered span. But he suggested I dig down (maybe 2 feet) and run some 2ft rebar into the existing foundation (of the Florida room), run the rebar out into that 2ft trench, and then when the pad is poured, it can sorta mono-pour into that area as well. He said that pad wont be going anywhere if I do that, and he will "ok it" when he comes back after the insulation, vapor barrier and rebar is all in place for the pad to be poured. He also suggested why dont I move my bathroom into the garage, and it will leave the tracking room more open that way (keeping in mind that in the Design Thread Forum, we switched the building around putting the tracking room up by the Florida room now, and the CR and Loft to the rear of the addition). It would only mean running more pipe a couple feet and the plumbers said it wouldnt be a problem to do before the pad is poured. That should be done next week. :wink: I started with like 4 pages of drawings and ideas for this project,,,,,,now I have a darn folder that is at LEAST 3 inches think full of paperwork, drawings and ideas. :oops: I think I have re-drawn this thing 50+ times. lol :oops: :lol: (and Glenn, as well as the rest of you, have been a huge help as well with his drawings and ideas). And to think I started this idea back in like July and wanted it done by October!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks to all of you for everything so far. :wink: Question: As long as I have the tracking room built as a "room within a room" and totally uncoupled from the rest of the building, and I use Green Glue on all the sheets of drywall etc etc, can I then just build single framed walls for the rest of the building (like CR, Loft, Bathroom, etc). Also within the CR, can I put regular windows and sealed solid core doors in upon the building of this project? I am assuming the sound should be, for the most part, isolated at the tracking room well enough,,,,right??? :? Thanks AJ

Question: As long as I have the tracking room built as a "room within a room" and totally uncoupled from the rest of the building, and I use Green Glue on all the sheets of drywall etc etc, can I then just build single framed walls for the rest of the building (like CR, Loft, Bathroom, etc). Also within the CR, can I put regular windows and sealed solid core doors in upon the building of this project? I am assuming the sound should be, for the most part, isolated at the tracking room well enough,,,,right???

My Opinion: You do have a little more space then some of us. Basically GG at 100% coverage makes 2 layers of drywall act like 4 and at 50% GG makes 2 layers of drywall act like 3. Why not save some money use GG only on ceiling and areas where dead load, space and the left over GG where you want to beef up iso? Adding layers of drywall is cheaper then GG although a little more work. The TR should be isolated well enough BUT personally I would have concerns about at least having some iso in CR, BUT this is not my build... non the less I'll state my opinion. -You are going to end up with a double wall between CR and TR anyways. -Recommended mixing level (without causing listeners discomfort) is 85 -dB's which does have the potential to bother neighbors, but not drastically like a live drum kit. -With out a well isolated TR you loose the option of recording in the TR. For a solo working singer songwriter/wanna be engineer (like me) not being able to recording in TR with access to controls would be PITA. -While mixing or editing a dynamic track I would not want to be disturbed by outside noise. -Why not have some amount of iso in the CR, the windows and doors will be really good sound leaks. You've probably thought all this threw, thought I would "double check you" AND that's my opinion.

I started with like 4 pages of drawings and ideas for this project,,,,,,now I have a darn folder that is at LEAST 3 inches think full of paperwork, drawings and ideas. I think I have re-drawn this thing 50+ times. lol (and Glenn, as well as the rest of you, have been a huge help as well with his drawings and ideas).

I just counted 116 sketch up files I've drawn and saved associated with building my room. "Studio folder" on hard drive contains 1070 files, 660 Mb's of info. I can't handle paper anymore I digitally archive almost everything I can. Marc

Thanks Marc for the good advice. As far as isolation in the CR, I was thinking of having the double walls (have to anyway) between the tracking room and the CR. I was also thinking about having a double wall (even maybe using GG) on the wall that is against the neighbors side of the building in the CR. Would that help at all,, or is it "all or none" in that respect?? I was also planning on doing all the interior walls 24" OC instead of 16" OC. I guess what I have been beating around the bush about through this whole project is,,,,, I know this is going to be "a studio" (my own little playground) but the wife went along with me doing it, and is 100% supporting it, which is a huge help. Lots of money being spent for me to advance what is now only a hobbie. :wink: Anyway, since it IS going to be a rather large room/addition (32 X 21) on the house, when she asks if we/I can make it "not such a dungeon" by putting a few windows and doors somewhere, I am just trying to appease her and still accomplish the needed isolation at the same time. :roll: I know,,,that sounds "whipped" :oops: . but if she stays happy, then I get more leeway with less hassle. :D Been married now for almost 19 years, and I learned this trick a long time ago. :lol: :lol: So,,,with that said, thats why I am pushing the couple windows in the CR, and the doors in the CR along with the Loft that she actually wanted. My thoughts are, if I can build a TR that is as sound isolating as possible (where the bands will practice as well) that should keep the noise down for the neighbors. As far as the CR and Loft area, well, I will just have to use discretion when mixing etc, not to be overly loud in those rooms. :shock: With all this in mind, again I am still trying to accomplish some sort of Isolation in the CR as best I can. If this goes beyond a hobbie for me, then I will just go buy/lease/rent a building and design it completely 100% for Studio use only. Again, this is being built as a Studio (that can easily be converted if needed later to a family type room(s)) but I am just trying to find a happy medium in a few areas while designing and building it. :D If there is something I propose as an idea (even if it is a door or window or loft area), and that proposition is goign to totally blow the whole Studio concept, then I do need to know about it and I will make the needed change. But if I can get away with some of these proposals (doors windows etc) at specific locations, that would be great. :D Either way, the tracking room will be totally Isolated, decoupled and built as you all have suggested. :wink: Let me know if I am on track with all this or am I blowing it!! :shock: :cry: Thanks again and everyone have a very Happy Thanksgiving Holiday!! :) AJ

Update: This week has been fairly busy between the rain drops. But yesterday we were able to do the back fill around the foundation and inside the pad area. Just rented and used a bobcat trackhoe since it was easier to move around. Went rather well. :D Only rolled it once! :lol: :roll: Today we had a dump truck at the site at 8AM and we started wheelbarrowing in the 2B stone for the pad,,, through the darn garage and down a 2X10 plank to the mudpit from hell. :lol: :lol: . Well, we got that all done and I also put a bed of sand down about 4" thick where the patio will go outside the sliding door of the control room. Then I covered it with 2X4 sheets of plywood for the winter to settle. We are still tossing up whether to pour the pad or not before snow hits. Today the temps reached 75, but tonight its supposed to be down to 32,,,so I think we will just wait till spring as recommended, and play it safe. Also we re-did the plumbing and moved the bathroom into the Garage :shock: and this change was already approved by the codes inspector (he is the one who actually suggested it) :D So now there will be a "mud room" in the garage which contains the bathroom, and an enterance to the Studio (for equipment unloading etc) and also an enterance to the garage and house from this mudroom as well. (pic below). Here are some updated pictures of the progress from the last 2 days since some like to see pictures on here. 8) Thanks AJ

Looks great, AJ! Is that you on the Bobcat? Regardless of whether you pour the slab now or later, be sure to rent a plate compactor to slap all that rock down really good and tight, the morning of or the day before you pour!! --Keith :mrgreen:

Hey Keith, No thats not me on the Bobcat. I am always the one behind the camera. :D Thats a worker for the excavating company. My builder friend )consultant) told me not to try to mess around when it came to the footers and pad etc. He said that MUST be perfect or the whole building will be off and I will notice it when I go to frame. He suggested I have a Professional handle doing this part, so thats what I did. :wink: I guess I could pop a picture of me up here so you all know what the knucklehead looks like that your helping. :lol: And I was just looking through some pics on the ole computer and found some with me and Hillary Clinton,,,and for all you republicans also some with GW. I have some cool once in a lifetime pics I took when I was at Ground Zero on Sept 11th with my Pa National USAR Rescue Team. We were the first rescue team deployed to the scene and stayed there for 8 days doing tactical rescues. (Here I go rambling on again...ok,,,I'll stop) Anyway, Ill get a pic up then. Anyway, for now, as I was looking at pics, below are 2 pics of the changes from the first design I posted when this all started,,,, to the most recent design. All I can say is WOW what changes. Credited of course to this site and all of you guys helping. Thanks again AJ