Please Help me - Building My Studio With Noise Isolation! ;)

Wow! That is exciting!! Where are you going to put all of that stuff? Out back, I presume? Good luck, and take lots of pictures! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Yep...They said if I could make a path to the back of the location (house), they would bring a small forklift and take it all back for me. So I made a 4ft wide path out of sheets of old OSB. :lol: Otherwise,,,I will have to carry it all back myself :roll: I think the biggest lesson(s) learned from all this so far is: 1 - You all were right, I WASNT going to build this in 2 or 3 months like I first though... :lol: :lol: (remember I wanted to start last July and have it done by October) lol :lol: and 2 - To do it right (or at least right enough for a nice home studio) I wasnt going to get it done for 15K. :oops: I may be a dummy when it comes to all this building, but I sure am getting hit with PMs and emails from people saying they are watching thsi all unfold and learning alot from my "dumb questions" (<-- they didnt say they were dumb,,,, I did) lol :lol: :lol: Anyway, I just walked in from installing a 10 CD duplicator unit and CD Recorder at my Church, and my wife said someone called to buy the boat already. :D :D Lets keep our fingers crossed, and maybe if I sell it, I can get some good Pre's to use in the new digs. :wink: :wink: Many Pictures to come. :wink: Thanks AJ

AJ, this thread is the latest example of how one should go about pursuing their project. :) Looking back at Page One from July of last year and how you resisted the urge to "just start building" until you knew for sure what you were going to do is a terrific example that others can definitely be inspired from. 8) I'm sure you'll encounter unexpected decision points along the way, but you'll be prepared to deal with them effectively. Can't wait to see the framing start to take shape! :twisted: You know that if I weren't so far away that I'd participate in The Framing Party. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

WE ARE OFF AND RUNNING!!!! :lol: :lol: Well,,, here we are 3 days into it, and we already have the first floor framed, and the floor joists down. Tomorrow my friend and I will get the stairs built, and hope to have all the sheeting on for the 2nd floor down tomorrow. I must say, we have been HARD at it, and just did 3 marathon days. I am BEAT!!! :shock: So far I am having a ton of fun, except every bone in my body hurts. :lol: :lol: Also, just in "odd and ends" the first 3 days, I spent about $700.00 in "little things" that we needed that I never planned for. (LVL brackets, 2x12x16's for stair stringers, special rubber sealent paper for seams ($100.00/roll), nails for the pnumatic nail guns, staples, etc etc. :wink: Its coming along though, and my wife said it much bigger then she thought it was going to be. Her concern is its going to block the sun from the back yard. :lol: :lol: Anyway, we still have a second floor to frame and also of course add the truss roof. It will total about 24ft high. (First floor - 10 ft ceilings, Second floor - 8ft Ceilings) I will post the pictures in groups of 5 or 6 at a time. I just havent had any time these last couple days to post any, so this is catch up. Let me know what you think. Thanks AJ

FRIDAY JUNE 2ND 2007 - Supplies Arrive

Monday June 4th 2007 - Day 1 of Building

Tuesday June 5th 2007 - 2nd Day of Building

TODAY - Wednesday June 6th 2007 - Thrid Day of Building

Ok...there ya have it for the first 3 days into it. :lol: :lol: Now I need a break and am off to Church, then to bed. Tomorrow is another day of building. :wink: More pics to come and if any of you see anything that needs addressed, corrected or changed, PLEASE ask or let me know. Again, I am new at this. Thanks as always AJ

Hey, I'm happy for ya AJ! That's an exciting time just getting started n' all. The smell of wood, drywall...Good deal! Many Blessings on your construction!

wow! progress :) Thanx for sharing them pix. I wonder, why didn't ya build your ext wall out of bricks? (better iso)

Aloha, Congrats on your progress, AJ! This is from a couple of posts back, but I hope its better late than never :wink:

Is there a web site for The Power Station Studio that you refer to in some posts?? I searched Yahoo and Google and can not seem to find a site for that Studio. I would love to see pics of it.

Formerly known as the Power Station, AVATAR Studios is a 33,000-square-foot multi-room facility on Manhattan's west side dedicated to providing the highest possible quality audio recording services to the recording industry. Try here - http://www.recordproduction.com/avatar_studios.html and here - http://www.avatarstudios.net/ Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

That's the old (not quite perfect but loved none the less) former Power Station - The new - better - still Power Station (not Avatar) does exist and can be found here: http://sonalysts.com/tour_rehearsals/powerstation.html This is the ONLY Power Station - the real one - Avatar can no longer use the name............. Welcome to my world........ Sincerely, Rod

Aloha Rod, Thank you for the updates & website link. That is an amazing facility and beautiful surroundings you have in your world! Aloha 8)

I wonder, why didn't ya build your ext wall out of bricks? (better iso)

Thanks all for the comments. :wink: Ro, instead of brick exterior, I decided to go with double layered OSB sheeting, then putting Stucco over it. That will match the decor of the house much better. :wink: (and keep the wife happy) :lol: Today (Thursday) we got alot more done. Pics will have to wait until tomorrow as I had to knock off early (around 5PM) because my son graduated from High School tonight. Now if I could only get him to get an interest in music and recording. :evil: :lol: :lol: Anyway, again, thanks for the comments, and more pics to come as I can get them taken and posted. Tomorrow we should be putting the 2nd floor exterior walls up. :D Today we put down 3/4 of the second floor decking, and also custom built the stair case from floor one to floor two. Was VERY hot out today, so we didnt work as fast as the last 3 days. Tomorrow is supposed to be in mid 90's, hot and humid, THEN in the afternoon they are calling for killer T-storms to come through with high winds. I still have an area of the existing house thats opened up between floors, and hope tomorrow we can get the covered, sealed and flashed to prevent any leakage into the house. :evil: :shock: I'll take pics and let you know how I make out. Also Rod and Kendale, thanks for the info and links for the Studio's. I love checking them out. :wink: Rod, The Power Station seems to be a pretty awsome Studio, but the web site dosent really have many pictures or "virtual tours" :cry: Do you happen to have any pics of the interior of the Studio?? (CR, TR, Stage(s), etc) besides the one or two they have posted?? Thanks again all :wink: AJ

I finally had a chance to see the photos, AJ! I'm amazed at how fast you guys are building! Less than a week?! Holy crap! :twisted: Congratulations again!! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok...This officially sucks now. LOL :lol: :lol: All the changes, and all the details,,,,not to mention all the long hours and hard work. :lol: Below are pictures of the progress over the last couple days. After we got the second floor framed and up, the Wife and the Neighbors both looked at it and said,,,"That is way too big!" :oops: :evil: The one picture below is standing on the second floor looking down at the Pool from the 2nd floor window (to show how high this place turned out). So,,,after looking it over and re-thinking it,,,and deciding to try to keep peace with the neighbors and of course the wife, my friend and I are going to now take 8ft off the back second floor and move the back wall in. This will eliminate the "gigantic look" of the building caused I think by the 2nd floor upper corner (looks huge). Then the back roofline will sorta step down, as will the trusses then follow. What a job this will be to make the changes, but if it makes the right people happy, then its worth it. :wink: I came to also find out the neighbor lady called the Borough asking questions (complaining) before coming to me. They told her 'Ma'am he is within codes and all zoning so there is nothing we can do". And even though that upset me a little, I am still making the change to appease her. The trusses are arriving tomorrow along with the roof felt and shingles. I hope this weekend to get that started. Here are some pictures of the monster building (Ya know, it never looks this big on paper,,,lol) :lol: :lol: Thanks AJ

OMG, Nooooooooooooo! :shock: That's unbelievable!!! :shock: Let me check the date... Nope, not April 1! :lol: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! FYI, you'll have to get the plans rechecked and approved by your "borough," right? :roll: Around here, we can't deviate from them once they've been approved. Do you really want to do this change? Obviously, keeping the wife happy is important, as is keeping the neighbors appeased to some extent... But maybe they're all just (I'll say it!) over-reacting because they're not used to it yet. It will look a heck of a lit nicer when it's done than it does now... :roll: (Although I think it looks great! A little boxy maybe, bu that's just 'cause it has no roof and no trim.) I just hope you're not compromising to the point where everyone's still going to be unhappy, including YOU! ;-) --Keith :mrgreen: P.S.: I just looked at these pics on a full size screen. Wow, I'm just blown away with how fast you guys are working! 8) I'm insanely jealous! :twisted: Very nice work!!! 8) P.P.S.: Is this what you're changing it to, kind of?

Yepp,,,,,,I ordered the extra gable truss and also changed the materials order to accomidate the new changes today,,,also called and cancelled the big triple window that was to go in the 2nd floor rear wall. :evil: As far as the plans and reapproval,,,thats just a quick phone call and a verbal "ok" from codes. I think I was blessed with a super codes guy who is workign with me all through this. :wink: Speaking of windows,,,,my sister is related to the owner of The Marvin (sp) Window Company. I ordered 4 twin double hung windows (was told I would get them dirt cheap) and today found out they are in production, but the retail PER WINDOW is $735.00 :evil: :shock: :evil: :shock: My "family" discount got them down to $515.00 per twin window, and even thoguh these Marvins are supposed to be one of the best windows made, I still think that way expensive :oops: O'well they are ordered so guess thats what I will use. :lol: Below are 2 more pictures basically my attempt trying to show the change(s). The high roof trusses and the new lower roof on the rear will have the same common trusses and they will be running the same direction. I just think doing this will calm the over all size down a bit, plus, its only the second floor which will be a game room, lounge, office area. The Studio itself is on the first floor, and that hasnt changed. So I should be OK in the end. :wink: Once this roof change is made, and I have the roof deck, shingles siding, stucco, etc etc all on and the place is basically "buttoned up" from the weather, my blood pressure will drop a bit and I will relax. :oops: :lol: As for right now, I am sipping on a Captain and Coke and thinking about starting the wiring diagrams for the electric. The room upstairs, even with the change, will leave me with a room thats 24ft by 20ft, so thats a good size for a hang out room. :wink: Here is what I am after I think, with the new changes,,,,,, Thanks AJ

AHHHHGGGGGG!!... :lol: :lol: Codes just left. Good news, he said everything looks real good so far. :wink: But now the bad news..... he said in order to move the back wall in 8 ft, to keep peace with the neighbor, I have to add another wooden floor joist under the wall/floor for additional support. Not a big deal I guess except waiting for it to arrive. He told me that I was too nice a neighbor and he said most people would have told their neighbors to pound sand if they complained. LOL :lol: Then he walked out front and said "How are you getting these trusses to the roof from the driveway out front?". I said we are going to hoof them up. He laughed and said "No your not, they are over 300Lbs each". :lol: Right then and there I looked at the trusses and said "No Way!" Grabbed the measuring tape and went out and measured the freshly delivered trusses. Guess what, they gave me someone elses order by mistake and instead if 21ft wide trusses, these were 31ft+ wide. :evil: Much bigger then I needed or ordered. :twisted: Anyway, the truss company called and apologized, and said they would have my trusses here tomorrow by noon. Sure glad I didnt have a Crane sitting here to set them. :evil: Speaking of cranes, Codes suggested I think about using a crane instead of carrying them up myself (with a couple guys help) Sooo I had a crane guy come out today and look things over, and I hired him with his 20 ton crane to set them in place. He said if I have enough, and the right help, he has set this many trusses in 20 minutes before. My guess is it will take me (with limited experience) a couple hours. :? Anyway, things are unfolding, and with this crane is another grand of money not budgeted. :roll: :lol: But for the money compared to the safety issues and the amount of labor and time involved, its worth it to me. (and the free help will thank me too I am sure). So thats the update...more pics to come maybe tomorrow of the progress. Now I am off to the City to play Fireman for 16 hour overtime shift (help pay for that Crane...lolol) :lol: Stay safe AJ

Dude, this is so awesome -- if you flew me out for the weekend, I'd be some of your free labor! :lol: I'm serious! 8) Hey, I make no guarantees that I would be worth the plane ticket or the food I'd consume! (Trust me: I can eat! :lol:) But it would be a blast. Ew, on second thought, I melt in the heat... So.......... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

HELP!!!! .... :lol: Ok,,,I need some serious advice. Today, I got off work this AM and decided instead of bed, I was going to tackle the moving of the back wall and also the moving and reframing of the windows as needed :evil: :evil: . I wasnt even out there an hour and the neighbor lady (who complained) had a landscaping company show up and start to plant trees to block the site of the Studio from her house :lol: . Anyway. I got the rear wall relocated (which was a HUGE pain) and also got the windows relocated and reframed as well as the side walls reframed where the old windows were. :evil: Then Codes shows up. :shock: This guy is pretty cool and I cant complain, but here is where I need help ASAP...... he said "I understand the room within the room issue/concept, and I am even willing to ok not having 2 ways out of the tracking room etc etc to keep things sealed up as much as possible,,,, but can I suggest since your using wooden I joists for the second floor, floor joists, and spanning them 20 ft across, that you use a couple of your LVL beams and maybe attach them directly to the I-joists under the second floor. Also then use these same LVL's to hang your tracking room ceiling off of as well." :shock: We discussed the "flanking" issue by having the LVL in contact with both the TR ceiling and the bottom of the second floor I-joists, and he said he wont MAKE me do it if it will compromise the sound isolation too much, but wanted me to ask you guys if 1 LVL connecting the TR ceiling to the bottom of the second floor I joists would creat that much compromise of the sound isolation I am working so hard to create. I said I would ask, and let him know what I find out. Other things/options we talked about were, doing the LVL beam up against the I-Joists, but putting somethng between the two (like sill seal or rubber or something) to decouple the two, but still add support to the floor above. The engineered wooden I-joists were engineered for my build, and are up to code, but when you actually jump and down on the second floor, there is a bit of deflection. He would like to see that go away as much as possible for my sake down the road. I also used ADVANTEC Flooring (tongue and groove "silent" floor) decking, and glued and screwed everything down. Again, the I-Joists are doing what they are designed to do, and acting like its supposed to, but he said if I could tie in 1 LVL with the joist system, it would stiffen it all up greatly on the second floor. :? Can I please request input from you guys who can help me with this decision. :wink: Thank you as always,,,,, Oh yes, Keith, thanks for the offer to come up and help,,,BUT,,,as in todays situation,,,,, at 7:30 I got off from a 16 hour Fire Dept shift in the City, went right to work on the Studio build, it was 110 degrees up on the second floor deck where we were working, and I didnt stop for breakfast or lunch. :cry: Pretty crappie working conditions huh?? :lol: :lol: But the big man upstairs said "enough is enough" around 4PM when he rolled through some major thunderstorms and high winds. Brought the temps down over 30 degrees in an hour, but didnt bring any of my construction down. :lol: :lol: All is holding up well. :D :D Here are some pics of todays progress, and again I thank you all for your help on this. My Codes guy says the project looks great so far and he see's no reason to gong me for anything yet. Here are pics from today's progress before the storms hit. Oh yes,,,one more thing,,,,instead of the stepped down roof trusses in the back where the wall was,,,,instead I am now building a balcony/patio in that area that looks over the back yard/Pool and to the mountains. :D That should turn out cool, and be a great quiet place to hang out. As soon as we moved the wall and I stepped out onto that area, I was sold on the porch/balcony idea. :D

Oh yes,,I just looked at the above post and pics,,,tomorrow I will finish completely sheeting (2nd layer) the outside as needed (since the wall move) and also Tyvek the whole deal. Build the balcony/porch area,,,, Then get the trusses up and sheeted. <-- (That wont be tomorrow obviously). :lol: :lol: Pics will follow. Thanks AJ

studio911 wrote:

..... he said "I understand the room within the room issue/concept . . . can I suggest since your using wooden I joists for the second floor, floor joists, and spanning them 20 ft across, that you use a couple of your LVL beams and maybe attach them directly to the I-joists under the second floor. Also then use these same LVL's to hang your tracking room ceiling off of as well." :shock: We discussed the "flanking" issue by having the LVL in contact with both the TR ceiling and the bottom of the second floor I-joists, and he said he wont MAKE me do it if it will compromise the sound isolation too much, but wanted me to ask you guys if 1 LVL connecting the TR ceiling to the bottom of the second floor I joists would creat that much compromise of the sound isolation I am working so hard to create.

I'd need to see this drawn out to comment authoritatively... And even then use "finger quotes" around the word "authoritatively." ;-) Anyway, you are wise to question the appropriateness of this advice from an isolation perspective. And he is wise to question the appropriateness of the 20 foot spans on the I joists if they are deflecting quite a bit.

studio911 wrote:

Other things/options we talked about were, doing the LVL beam up against the I-Joists, but putting somethng between the two (like sill seal or rubber or something) to decouple the two, but still add support to the floor above.

No. You'll almost surely overload the makeshift elastomer, which would defeat its purpose at best. Even if you didn't, it either wouldn't be securely fastened or the flanking would occur at the fastening points.

studio911 wrote:

Again, the I-Joists are doing what they are designed to do, and acting like its supposed to, but he said if I could tie in 1 LVL with the joist system, it would stiffen it all up greatly on the second floor. :?

If there is a concern about structural integrity (and I would imagine this is not the case, since they've been engineered to code and he's not willing to fail you), I actually think a floppier floor/ceiling might be better for sound isolation. I remember reading a comment from Steve (knightfly) a long time ago that the best wall assembly isolation-wise would be one without any studs at all... :lol: ...but obviously that would not be appropriate from a structural integrity perspective. At the risk of pretending to be an expert :P, I'd say your existing plan is probably best left alone. Insert all the obligatory "your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, consult with your friendly neighborhood structural and acoustical engineers" disclaimers here. ;-)

studio911 wrote:

Oh yes, Keith, thanks for the offer to come up and help,,,BUT,,,as in todays situation,,,,, at 7:30 I got off from a 16 hour Fire Dept shift in the City, went right to work on the Studio build, it was 110 degrees up on the second floor deck where we were working, and I didnt stop for breakfast or lunch. :cry: Pretty crappie working conditions huh?? :lol: :lol:

Dude, if you made me do manual labor under those conditions, as much as I like and respect you, I regret to tell you that I'd have to sue you. :P ;-)

studio911 wrote:

Oh yes,,,one more thing,,,,instead of the stepped down roof trusses in the back where the wall was,,,,instead I am now building a balcony/patio in that area that looks over the back yard/Pool and to the mountains. :D That should turn out cool, and be a great quiet place to hang out. As soon as we moved the wall and I stepped out onto that area, I was sold on the porch/balcony idea. :D

Oh yeah!! :twisted: I definitely approve of that. Make sure to set up one of those coin-op telescopes aimed in the direction of that neighbor of yours! ;-) 8) :lol: :twisted: I think I might actually like the balcony idea even more than having the space inside. :) That's going to be a killer room with plenty of square footage! 8) Heck, just having the 6' 8" sliding glass door or french doors or whatever will make that plan worthwhile in my opinion. I would imagine Mrs. AJ likes the idea too -- else you wouldn't be doing it! :D Make sure your balcony railings really secure and that your building department approves of the design. I know there are child safety issues surrounding those. Hey, if you really wanted to take it to the next level (no pun intended! :P), you'd do a staircase outside! 8) Or if you might like to do that but can't afford it right now, build some flexibility into your railing design that would allow for it to be added on later relatively easily. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

Here is an attempt on a drawing to show the LVL and TR ceiling designs. Again, he is NOT making me do it so there is flanking through an LVL, but just "strongly requesting" it for additional floor support. :? Again, its up to codes the way it is,,,,he just wants to improve on it if we can. I just had a thought to maybe run the LVL off center attached to the wooden I-Joists alone and on its own and not touching the ceiling at all, then do the TR ceiling as originally planned>?>? :?: :? Basically seperate the two systems, and try to accomplish the best of both worlds>?>? Whatcha think??? :shock: Thanks AJ