Please Help me - Building My Studio With Noise Isolation! ;)

Wow....... 8 days at Ground Zero...... I can't imagine how tough that was for you guys. I'm............... speechless. --Keith :(

Hey Keith, (and the rest of you of course) :wink: Yes the first 8 days of Ground Zero really sucked!! No other way to describe it. And now I am still paying for it heathwise. Now all our guys on the rescue teams that were there, are coming down with fatal or disabling respitory diseases. :cry: In fact, a couple months ago, we just buried my partner who was with me at Ground Zero for an unexplained pulmonary illness (they are saying was from WTC). :cry: We were there from Sept 11th (first team on the pile doing rescues) to Sept 18th round the clock. :oops: Life is definetly way too short !!! Especially for some of us now after that incident. But before I pass on myself, one of my goals is to get this studio built and record one original "special" song to leave behind. Actually I just wrote and started recording that song at the current basement studio I use. :wink: Maybe I'll let ya give it a listen, and you can let me know what you think. (its a pretty Christian Contemporary Emotional Mellow type tune) but it fits what I felt over the last couple years since 9/11 and losing people close to me. Ok,,enough rambling,,,Moving on to a brighter note. Even though its winter here, and I decided to wait on the concrete pour for my pad till spring, so it wouldnt freeze, here it is,,, January 15th and we have not had any snow and the days are still in the 50's. lol :lol: :cry: Its pretty weird, and I am kickin myself because I could have had the pad done weeks ago. lol I know however if i would have done it, we would have had a couple blizzards by now!! :lol: :lol: and the pad woudl be all cracked up! This week is supposed to be, and stay in the 20's and 30's finally. But, in the interest of keeping things moving forward, I decided to build the bathroom enterance way into the Studio awhile, which is actually in my existing garage area. I framed it, insulated it, drywalled it, ran the electric, had all the inspections (and passed them all) done, so now I am getting ready to put the 2nd coat of mud on the drywall once the first tape coat is dry. Next Ill finish everythign such as outlets, flooring in bathroom, painting etc. I know its only the enterance way (Mud Room) and bathroom, but here are some pictures anyway since some on here like to see pictures and progress. lol :D As you'll see its only taped and coated once so far, and not dry yet, but it turning out pretty decent so far (especially for never doing this before). Comonnnnnn April. :D :wink: And oh yea....at the bottom of the pics, I added a Picture of me at Ground Zero with my mystery date that day. lol :lol: :lol: Stay Safe,,,,AJ

Great pics and nice job on the bathroom, AJ. 8) Wow, that's awful, what's been happening to you and the other heros who worked search and rescue at Ground Zero. :( I hope you and your crew are getting good care for your ongoing health problems. Thank you for sharing this personal stuff, AJ. You know me -- I'm hardly ever at a loss for words. ;-) But, for some reason, I just can't seem to string together a coherent sentence that expresses how I feel about you guys, the sacrifices you and your families made on that day, and apparently, continue to make. Then again, maybe I just did. --Keith :mrgreen:

Well, after a longggg winter, it looks as though I can finally start up the building project again. They claim with almost 100% certainty that we will not get any more freezing temps, so I can get the concrete pad done. I took off the last 12 days from work to build, but the weather pretty much ruined that, except for the last 4 days. So here is what I got done. 1 - I built a 12X20 deck on the back ot the house that will be joined to the Studio by a 12X20 brick Patio. Deck I got done, but the patio is still in the building stages. 2 - I was able to get my concrete guy here today to look the area over and give me a date he can do it. He said he will be here next week and have it done. :D :D :D :D 3- I bought R-10 OC Styrofoam Insulation boards and put down over the whole pad. Its not required but codes said I will notice an minimum of 10 to 15 degrees warmer in winter if I did that,,,so I did. (that was a quick $500.00 spent to just be buried) :shock: 4 - I went and bought #4 - 1/2" Rebar (bought 80 - 12ft lenths) and I put them down. I ended up making them 20" on centers. I had a dozen or so left over and told the mason guy today that I might just put them in the grid somewhere to use them up (the building supply place would not take them back). He said I was NOT to add them, because the 20" O.C. makes him laugh as is, and not to add any more. He said he would just buy them from me to help me get rid of them. :lol: 5 - I called my Codes inspector today and they came out and inspected the Pad Site with everything in place. It passed!! :D He said, I am to call him back once its all up and framed and under roof, for the next inspection. So, looks like the site is ready for the concrete, then up go the walls. There was a change in the Studio, it will now be a complete 2 story building. 10ft ceilings on the first floor, and 8ft ceilings on the second floor. (Keith, remember when I started thsi last June and thought I would have it done by that October...LOLOL) :lol: :lol: Ahh the changes we make (and I musta made like 200 now) and things we learn!! :wink: Anyway, things are falling in place, So let the fun begin!! :D Here are some pics I took. Sorry they are dark, but we got hammered with a storm this afternoon, and I worked out in that storm for about 2 hours to get it all done. Pics were taken when done and it was still dark out. Framing of the walls starts in about 2 weeks. ;) I'll post as I go. Thanks AJ

Hey there, Can you take some more pics of the rebar grid? Or did you cover the rebar grid with plastic? (It's sometimes hard to tell the order in which the pictures were taken.) If you covered the rebar in plastic, that's no good! The plastic is supposed to go under the rebar grid. You'll need some "dobies" (short for "adobes" -- they're little half-brick sized concrete blocks with wire attached to them) so that you can lift the rebar grid up a couple of inches. You need to allow the concrete to get underneath the rebar or it's not going to do you any good. :roll: Oops! My guy forgot to put the plastic down before putting the rebar grid together! So he had to do some fancy footwork in order to get the plastic underneath it. You also need a one or two rebars inside the perimeter haunches, also supported on dobies... Notice in the above photo that the two upper dobies are two of many supporting the pair of rebars inside the haunch (below the grid), and the lower dobie is one of many supporting the grid. You'll also want to place your J-bolts in advance... Use a small piece of wood (stakes are good for this) with a hole drilled in it to hold the J-bolt in the position you want it to be after the pour. Also, do your rebar extensions overlap by at least 18"? I think that's what code requires. My guy did them with at least 24" overlapping just to be on the safe side. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hey Keith, The order of what went down today was: (from ground up) 2B Stones 6mil Vapor Barrier R-10 - 2" insulation #4 1/2" Rebar 20" OC There is a ledge on the block all the way around that sticks out 2" and the rebar rests on. So that keeps the sides up. I will take your suggestion on raising the middle of the grid. The Mason said today that when they do the masonary work, they will lift the rebar as they go, so its about 1/2 up in the concrete. Also I asked about Fibermesh, and they said it was only about $6.00/YD more,,,and said they use it about 50% of the time depending on which contractor they are pouring for, but said I absolutely dont need it with all the Rebar I have down. I am still debating on this with him because I understand that Fibermesh dosent keep it from cracking, but instead just makes the cracks smaller,,,,right?? Also he is using concrete rated at 3500#. He was right though when he said ,,,there are only 2 types of concrete,,,Concrete that IS cracked,,,,or concrete that is GOING TO crack. :roll: :evil: Here are some more pictures of the Rebar and Pad Area, as it is out there now. Also I included a couple of the Studio Enterance way and Studio Bathroom as its coming along well I think. :lol: My firends think I am nuts going to all this for a home studio. lol :lol: :lol: But I love it! :D Thanks as always, AJ :wink:

Personally, I'd go with the fibermesh, especially if you're considering doing an etched stain finish (I don't recall if you are or not). It's cheap insurance against ugly cracks. I have no regrets whatsoever doing such overkill on my slab pour. My concrete looks fabulous and will look so much moreso when I do the etched stain. :D I don't understand the bit about the "ledge." :roll: FYI, #4 = 1/2". #4 is another way of saying 1/2" in that context. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

I don't understand the bit about the "ledge."

When they did the foundation, the used top blocks that had an edge on them. I was told that this would be what you rested your rebar on, around the parimeter. I attached pics below showing that edge top cap. After I put all the rebar down, I still wasnt happy with where the rebar was going to potentially end up in the concrete, so I put down paver bricks (about 2" high) under cross sections of the rebar. This lifted the rebar so it will be able 1/2 way up in the concrete. Check out the pics and let me know if it looks right. :roll: :lol: I am still waiting to see if they come this week and get the pad done. (keeping fingers crossed) :wink: I hope to start swinging hammers within 2 weeks and get walls up. :D Also on the pics below, you can see how I plan to have an exterior walk on the garage side of the house, so people can enter without going through the garage. I am however planning on making it so you can bring your equipment through the garage into the tracking room for sessions. Mostly I think i will be the only one using the place, but after its done and if it turns out as planned and word gets out, there may be some interest by others to use the facility. have to wait and see. Here are some more pics with the Rebar lifted. Thanks AJ :wink:

I see the ledges now. However... I think you'd be better off using the "dobies" that are made with some wire sticking out of them so that you can attach them to the rebar intersections. During the pour, there is a risk of the rebar being kicked around and the pavers being knocked out from under the steel in some places, which would weaken the concrete at those points. I also seem to recall reading that you want the rebar to be lower than the halfway point... Around 1/3 is better, I think... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

UPDATE: Well, the original excavator who I contracted for the footers, foundation work, and concrete pad ended up bailing on the job. I was able to get everything done (as seen in pics above) up to the point of pouring and finishing the concrete pad. :evil: I called the Mason who was to be doing the job originally, and he would not call back. I come to find out there were/are money issues with the original excavator, and him, thats why people are avoiding him and his customers. So, I called another Mason, he came by and gave me a quote of $2500.00 to pour and finish the pad. But this did NOT include fibermesh,,, that was extra. The original quote was for $1750.00 (including fibermesh) so that just blew that budget. :roll: :evil: Anyway, this morning the original Mason called and asked if I still needed the job done? I said yes,,,he said as long as I pay him directly, he will do it. He came by a few minutes ago and said, I will honor that estimate from last fall for the $1750.00 and that WILL include fibermesh. (this guy does huge jobs in this area, such as he is currently doing all the concrete work for a new Target store being built) so I think he will do a good job. He did however tell me to remove all those dobies/pavers, because they wheel concrete in using buggies>? And can not have the Rebar up in the way. He said they "pull up the rebar into place as they go". Hopefully within the next week or two, this concrete ordeal will be finished. :roll: :wink: I hope the rest of this whole process isnt this complicated, crazy and confusing!! :twisted: :lol: Guess thats why I fight fires for a living, and am not a builder/contractor ! :roll: :lol: Have a great day all! AJ

I sure hope you don't pay him directly. If he's got money problems, he might stiff the concrete delivery company, and then you'll be on the hook for it. :roll: I dunno... My concrete guy set up a wooden bridge to get into the area of the pour... I have my doubts about this guy.

AJ, What Keith is saying is true. If you have any doubts .....pay the cement company direct and pay the finisher direct. He probably had a mark up on the concrete for himself which is very typical and you would owe him that. Its just one way to offset overhead. Thats if you had a material and labor proposal split out with costs. If not the cement company will tell you what you owe and the balance would be the finishers. I guess thats pretty obvious Duh :oops: Just so you know any contactor that does work on your property if you pay him and he does not pay his subs or suppliers you are still responsible for the subs/suppliers getting paid. They can put a lien on your propery until the dispute is settled. Doesn't happen a lot but more than you would think Not trying to scare you just make you aware if you werent before. And you are probably OK. Tom

Hey guys - this is not a structural slab - and thus the steel is for shrinkage control - and it needs to be in the TOP 1/3 of the slab - preferably the top of the bar within 1 1/2" of the top of the slab. The shelf looked just about right - the cement bricks should be on their side - or close to it - I don't usually use those - I generally purchase rebar chairs the right height. http://www.jankeproducts.com/rebar_chairs.htm you only put bar in the bottom 1/3 of the slab when it's structural - and then you have to put another mat 1/3 from the top as well. Slabs don't become structural until somewhere around 8" thick - (depending on the actual load) and this slab is a long ways from that. If the slab has not been poured yet - when they lift the bar - make them set the brick under the bar to keep it the right height..... and then just watch to make sure they do - becuase it will do you no good what so ever at the bottom of the slab (or even in the middle). Rod

Wow, very interesting, Rod. Thanks for sharing that. In my case my rebar grid was about 2" up from the base and the slab was about 6" thick... And I used fibermesh. So I guess you could say I had a kind of a mini structural slab...? :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Let me clear something up from my last post. The Mason who is doing my pour, ISNT the guy who has, or had the financial issues. That was my concracted excavator (who has now bailed on the job). The Mason didnt want to originally do the job for fear that he wouldnt get paid from this Excavator who now has a reputation in this area for not paying his bills. Now he (the Mason) knows that he will be getting paid directly from me, and he is good with that, and will do tha job. (we eliminated the middle man excavator problem child). And again, this Mason is well known in this area, and does HUGE concrete jobs. He is again currently doing a Target Store at a shopping mall, and also doing a zillion miles of sidewalk work for the Township. I am convinced he knows what he is doing, I will just reassure that (about the rebar location) as he is working it. :wink: ROD, I see these rebar chairs, but that would I guess be the same as the bricks in the sense that they obviously would raise the rebar (as intended) but the Mason said, the rebar can NOT be raised because they have to get the concrete in (via power wheelbarrels) and drive over that rebarred area. So my question is, can they install those rebar chairs as they go since he dosent want them there at the beginning?? Also I just learned that rebar will/can actually float in concrete? WoW. Thats cool. (remember I am not a builder, just one who is learning) I thought rebar would sink in concrete due to how heavy it is. :roll: Anyway, again, the money problem person (the Excavator) is out of the picture at this point. The Mason is on the up and up. :wink: Just wanted to clear that up. :wink: Thanks AJ

studio911 wrote:

ROD, I see these rebar chairs, but that would I guess be the same as the bricks in the sense that they obviously would raise the rebar (as intended) but the Mason said, the rebar can NOT be raised because they have to get the concrete in (via power wheelbarrels) and drive over that rebarred area. So my question is, can they install those rebar chairs as they go since he dosent want them there at the beginning??

like I said - Once they pull up the steel - I would have them slide the chairs(in your case the bricks) under it at each location - my only comment about your brick is that the steel is setting too low in the concrete pour - it should be in the top 1/3 of the slab to be in the correct position.

Also I just learned that rebar will/can actually float in concrete? WoW. Thats cool. (remember I am not a builder, just one who is learning) I thought rebar would sink in concrete due to how heavy it is. :roll:

Me thinks someone has been pulling your leg - take a look and let me know if one is longer than the other.......... There is rebar manufactured using FRP (fiberglass reinforced products) and it has a specific gravity less than that of concete (and thus will float) - but that is not what I see in your photos. You are using deformed steel rebar - which has a specific gravity greater than concrete and will sink - it can never float........... or at least not in freshly poured concrete - and you would not want to be trying to pull this up once concrete had begun to set. so (once again) - someone was making a funny on you......... Rod

UPDATE: (Finally!!) Well it was sunny and 80+ degrees out today, and I came home from work to find masons doing my concrete pad..FINALLY!! :D There were some things good and bad I guess, but I was assurred all was done right and I am good to go. :wink: Here is the run down: Bad news first,,,,,They removed the brick pavers I had in place holding up the rebar. Said I didnt need them, and that they pulled the rebar up as they went and it was in place where it needed to be. :evil: :?: Good news.....they said due to the way I had it set up, that they needed to pour 6" thick pad to come level where it needed to be. So, that was good I guess (after being told before, with the insulation, it may be tight for 4" to fit) They also said that people do NOT need BOTH rebar and Fibermesh,,,,but I had it done with both anyway. They said this was going to be one stongggg pad. :lol: :lol: Wondered if I was planning on parking a tank on it? lol :lol: They started around 7AM and got done around 2PM. I think it looks nice now that its completed. Its very smooth and level, but I didnt know they had to cut 'expansion cuts" (one cut each direction) into the pad. Anyway, its done, and we start framing Monday June 4th. :D :D I cant wait to get this under roof and at least the exterior all buttoned up. Here are some pics from today: AJ

AJ Congrats on the pour. Nice that they power trowled it instead of hand finish. Makes a nicer, tighter surface for staining. Just in time for the summer build Tom

Thanks Tom :wink: Its getting exciting (and making me nervous at the same time). :D I have a building question(s) for those experienced on here. I asked this question in trying to establish the width for my trusses, and I asked 4 people and got 2 different answers (2 answered one way, and the other two the other way) so I figured I'd ask on here: When you are putting on your exterior sheeting (9/16 OSB sheets) onto your building exterior, and you are using two layers for mass,,,,, First, do you overlap the sheeting over the foundation a little bit at the bottom??..or...do you rest the sheeting directly ON top of the foundation (thus making your wall framing set in a little to compensate for the thickness of the sheeting layers)??? and 2: If you DO in fact overlap the sheeting over your foundation, do you overlap BOTH layers,,,,,, or frame it such as to just overlap maybe the outter most layer. I had the truss company here to measure for my trusses for me, and the building width (outer edge of the foundation to the other outer edge of the foundation acroos the pad) is exactly 21 feet. They gave me a quote for the trusses with them showing to be exactly 21ft wide. If I am overlapping exterior sheeting (if thats the way to go), I would think then I would have to ADD that thickness of the sheeting layers to the truss width as well??..right?? (trusses would be like 21ft 2in wide then) Is this correct?? :?: :?: :?: Next, my tracking room is going to be on the first floor and be totally decoupled (with GG and all as mentioned before), and I planned to double sheet the whole building for exterior mass. I was just asked though if I needed to actually double sheet the second floor (Office area, Lounge Area) or can I just double sheet the first floor, where the tracking room is, and get the same results?? Again, I am planning to double the whole exterior, but thought I'd ask anyway. Sorry if these are basic construction questions, but I am not a builder, but one who is learning as I go, and I am ordering materials tomorrow and want to make sure things are right,,,so figure I better ask now (or as the questions arise). Thanks again AJ

Hi All, Ok..no answer on the above question, but after making several phone calls, I was informed either way is fine, but just to make sure that if I overlap the OSB over the block foundation, that I put a barrier between the OSB and the block to prevent moisture transfer into the OSB. :? Next question (hopefully to get answered before I order materials): My building is/was designed to have 2 layers of OSB on the exterior sheeting, then I was going to use siding on outside to match house (per wifes request). Anyway, now we found a product by a company called Hardie Products http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/installation/hardipanel_installation.php that offers stucco sheets (made out of portland cement) that are 4X8 or 4X10 sheets in size. We now want to possibly put these on the exterior instead of siding idea. My question is: If I use these cement sheets of Stucco siding, would I still need 2 layers of OSB sheeting? or will the mass of these Studdo sheets make up for it, and i could get away with only 1 layer of OSB?? Its only cost about $300.00 more for the 2nd layer of OSB sheeting, so maybe just doing both AND the stucco sheets would be the ticket, but wanted to ask. Thanks AJ

studio911 wrote:

The Mason said today that when they do the masonary work, they will lift the rebar as they go, so its about 1/2 up in the concrete.

It is supposed to be in the top 1/3 of the slab or it is 100% useless..... the only reason it exists is to control cracking - and it can't do that unless it's in the top 1/3 - So if the best he can do is 1/2- then you may as well pull it out and sell it for scrap.......

Also I asked about Fibermesh, and they said it was only about $6.00/YD more,,,and said they use it about 50% of the time depending on which contractor they are pouring for, but said I absolutely dont need it with all the Rebar I have down. I am still debating on this with him because I understand that Fibermesh dosent keep it from cracking, but instead just makes the cracks smaller,,,,right?? Also he is using concrete rated at 3500#.

I don't use fibermesh - I always use rebar - 3500# mix is good concrete.

He was right though when he said ,,,there are only 2 types of concrete,,,Concrete that IS cracked,,,,or concrete that is GOING TO crack. :roll: :evil:

Well he was right about most pours - actually I was just at a movie studio yesterday that we poured a 12,000 s.f. slab - one pour - no joints control or otherwise - in 1996 and it still does not have a crack in it. But it did cost us an extra 24,000 dollars to make that happen. Rod

Good info and Thanks Rod, Rod, I do have a question for you, Is there a web site for The Power Station Studio that you refer to in some posts?? I searched Yahoo and Google and can not seem to find a site for that Studio. I would love to see pics of it. :D Thanks AJ

Here's a Web page that describes Power Station New England. 8)

Thanks Keith. I already found that site through my searches, but it only has that one picture. That picture is what caught my eye, and got me curious as to what the rest of the place looked like (beyond that one picture). It looks like an AWESOME studio. :wink: Thanks again AJ

Excitement is building (literally) :lol: :lol: My first round of building materials/supplies (all 2X6 studs (about 100), all exterior double OSB sheeting (133 sheets), all TJI wood floor joists, all roof sheeting, Tyvek house wrap, Roof felt & shingles, Band Boards, all 2X10's for headers, all Pres Treated Studs for base plates, all top plates, Plus about 2 pages of additional stuff) will be here tomorrow. :lol: :lol: (and I think I got a great deal,,,all this stuff only cost me $4200.00) Once the Stucco/Siding, trusses, interior wall framing, all the drywall, Green Glue,,,according to the quote should then only take me up to around 11K ,,,then another 4K for HVAC, and then the carpet and paint etc etc. (I am posting this just to give some on here who ask, an idea of what things can cost here to build a studio in Central PA) These prices are at about 20% off Home Depot price's. (just FYI) My Studio, when started, I wanted to spend around 15K. :roll: My builder friends smiled and said "plan on starting at 20K and thats doing it all yourself",,,, and now the reality of it is,,,I should be able to be in and occupying the studio for about 24K,,,,,but till I get everything the way I want it, it will probably be 30K spent, for my/a decent home 21ft X 32ft 2 story Recording Studio. :shock: :lol: I have my builder friends lined up to start firing the framing guns on Monday morning, and getting the walls up. :D Trusses wont be manufactured and ready/delivered for about 2 weeks :cry: , but I guess I can live with that. HERE WE GOOOOO.....this is going to get interesting. :lol: :lol: Good news is, I just listed one of my boats for sale (no time for it anymore) and so my wife threw an additional 10K my way for the Studio (she has wanted me to sell the boat for awhile now...lol) (Anyone want to buy a newer 35ft Bayliner Motoryacht real cheap??? :lol: :lol: I'll sell it for 1/2 the price of the brand new one. ;) (then more toys for the studio...lol) :lol: :lol: Anyway, I will take pics as we go, and post them as it progresses. :wink: Wish me luck,,,,,, AJ