Andy Eade's Rotten Basement Conversion Thread

andy_eade wrote:

. . . other contractors using the servicemagic.com service which I can highly recommend. It's a great way to find contractors in your area that are prescreened and you can even read other customers reviews of their work. . .

I have not had great luck with ServiceMagic. My first experience was about three years ago when I had a water service line break (the pipe between the municipal shut off valve and the main valve entering the house). One of the contractors was Drain Patrol, which a basic Google search turned up this CBS Evening News expose of this rip-off outfit that was eventually sued by the San Joaquin County consumer fraud unit of the State Contractors License Board. Years later, when I was working on my studio design, I found a structural engineer (kind of) through ServiceMaster, and although we had one semi-productive phone call, he refused to return my calls after that... :roll: ...so, in a nutshell, I've not been impressed!

Both guys agreed that having been in the house 2 years now I have no chance of any recourse with the Home / termite Inspectors or previous owners etc.

I didn't realize you had been in the house that long... I thought it was less than a year. But even so -- if it appears the problem was covered up by the previous owner, you might still have a case after all... The statute of limitations fclock starts ticking at the point that you discover the problem. In short, just document everything really well in case you end up having to pursue the matter. There's always small claims court.

I almost forgot one other key point he made and I am questioning. He said not to use a dehumidifier in the basement. He said that this will make the problem worse as it will continue to pull moisture into the blocks. He also showed me pictures of walls failing or cinderblocks breaking after years of this problem. I wonder if he was scaremongering or had legitimate concern. - What do you guys think? Does this sound right? - Also do you think I should try drilling into one of the blocks to see if water comes rushing out? - Are there any other problems I might cause by doing this that I am missing? Many Thanks, Andy

Hey Andy nice thread here and in the design forum. I wish I had the amount of space you have to work with. Couple comments: I have had no luck through servicemagic.com more then once. I've never even got a phone call or email from a company that I was looking for, but I live in Florida where every contractor screens out there calls becuase there is to much work. Drilling a hole into your wall to look for water. By no means take my comment as a proffesional opinion but, if I were you I would drill a hole. I would think long and hard about where to make the hole trying to center it into one of the cavities. In Florida general construction of cinder block (hollow block) walls, at the corners and every 4 feet a cavities are filled solid with concrete. I have no idea how yours walls are built but I would guess they are similar. After I drilled 1 or even 2 or 3 holes I would have some concrete patch or other material to patch the holes and a way to patch the vapor barrier. Like you I would continue asking locals for advice. Thanks for the link to doors on eBay :D Marc

My questions - Is the wood in the pix dry and crumbly, or still wet? The pix aren't quite showing; is there slightly granular "sawdust" in a lot of places, or just crumbling wood? (The "sawdust" is actually Termite poop) Which side of the poly (shown against the blocks) is that wood on - is the wood INSIDE the poly? And, is the wood just furring strips for mounting the panels, or is is some kind of structural frame? Describe your fake oak panels; does the finished side feel "plasticky", or does it actually feel like wood? Just how much of your walls are below dirt - if necessary, is it gonna be a big pain to dig them out and re-coat? Some thoughts - It's very possible that tree has violated your outer membrane; tree roots can split boulders. It needs to go away. And you're right, water can follow dead tree roots as well. It's a good start to extend your drains, you want to lead any and all water AWAY from the foundation walls. That poly is NOT in the right place - in your location, you'll (I think) be heating more than cooling, so any vapor barrier needs to be just under the inside wallboard - in fact, kraft-faced insulation would be the best bet; the paper is the last thing before the first layer of wallboard on the inside of your new stud frame. Where the iffy part comes is that you have a waterproof membrane outside your block, then a vapor barrier at the very inside of the inner wall - this can trap moisture (the likely cause of your existing problems, since that poly is NOT in the right location) and cause dry rot. I asked about the present condition of the wood because dry rot is caused by moisture, but won't feel very moist necessarily; If you've downloaded some of the papers from Building Sciences, you may have read that moisture is driven thru a wall by heat; so when you heat the space, it drives moisture thru the wall and into the wall cavity. There needs to be a vapor barrier to STOP this, and it needs to be right behind the inner wallboard so the moisture doesn't make it into the cavity. If you have ANOTHER vapor barrier at the blocks, you get trapped moisture between the two and everything there either rots or mildews. Depending on how your walls/basement floor were built, they might be able to allow some moisture to drain out through the bottom of the wall and the footing; but maybe not, if that area was sealed tight during construction. You may have no choice but to bust out a place for a sump pump... I asked about your "FOAK" because plasticised paneling will ALSO act as a vapor barrier, so even with your unfaced insulation you could have had two vapor barriers in place, trapping moisture and doing what we see in the pix. Water, especially when the ground water level stays low, doesn't spread out much when soaking into the ground; because of this, you might get away with extending your downspouts AND cutting the sod back maybe 3-4 feet from the house, laying down one of the blankets that are used for covering septic leach lines, and putting the sod back; This should come up your block wall a few inches above dirt level. Doing this would help your soil near the house to drain further from the foundation, so that water would penetrate straight down and not add to the moisture problem in the block wall. Running a dehumidifier will NOT pull more moisture in from outside; the physics are as above - heat inside will drive moisture OUT thru the wall. The dehumidifier will only REDUCE the amount of moisture you have available inside so this = LESS of a problem, not MORE. Steel studs and gypsum are the WORST thing you can do where moisture is a problem; Wood studs and wood paneling can handle 10 TIMES as much water per cubic foot as steel/gypsum before it will cause trouble. Masonry can handle 10 times THAT amount, or 100 times as much as steel/gypsum. For that reason, you may want to use heavy plywood for your inner walls INSTEAD of gypsum. Regardless, once you start building you'll want a thermal break under your wall plates. You'll also want to look for some fiberglass pallet strapping - in these cases, you need to leave air space behind your insulation for drying, but still have your insulation kept in contact with the wall panels for damping. This can be done by building frames on the floor, fastening strapping across the back sides of studs every 2 feet with roofing nails, then standing the frames up and adding insulation and panels and caulk. I'm outa ideas for now; let me know on the top questions... Steve

Thanks Steve for your valuable input. Let me go through each one of these and give you the info... Is the wood in the pix dry and crumbly, or still wet? It is dry and crumbly. The termite inspector that came yesterday suggests that this is all termite damage and that I don't seem to have much of a moisture issue. Of course he is just a termite inspector. I have 3rd and 4th opinions coming tomorrow and Monday. We have not had any rain since the weekend and I measured the Relative Humidity in the corner and it came out to be about 60% which is pretty high no? I did wonder if this may be higher than normal since I have sealed off the A/C outlets while I'm doing the demo to prevent dust / potential mold spores spreading. There were never any A/C Returns in this part of the basement so this all might be contributing to a build up of moisture in there. Whether it's the termite inspector or the basement moisture guy that are correct; bottom line is I need to be covered for both moisture and termites before building and sealing up a new wall, so I'm taking as much time as is neccessary to fully understand and address this issue. The pix aren't quite showing; is there slightly granular "sawdust" in a lot of places, or just crumbling wood? (The "sawdust" is actually Termite poop) yes there is. On the studs in question there is the sawdust (poop). The termite inspector also pointed this out to me yesterday. Which side of the poly (shown against the blocks) is that wood on - is the wood INSIDE the poly? And, is the wood just furring strips for mounting the panels, or is is some kind of structural frame? The Poly is bewteen the Cinderblock and the wood. i.e. they are furring strips that the Foak Panels were mounted on. The poly covers the entire wall on the that is completely submerged (Wall 2 - bottom of diagram) and the bottom half only of that wall where the grading slopes (Wall 2 - left side of diagram). (See diagram for wall numbers). Describe your fake oak panels; does the finished side feel "plasticky", or does it actually feel like wood? It is actaully wood, but appears to have some kind of applied finish on it which may be acting as a barrier? It is peeling off in one corner. I will try and get some close-up pics at the weekend. Just how much of your walls are below dirt - if necessary, is it gonna be a big pain to dig them out and re-coat? Let me share with you pics. The front wall (bottom of diagram wall 2) is completely submereged. The side wall (left of diagram Wall 2) slopes as follows: I made a quick skecth which gives a better idea I think than the pictures: Some thoughts - It's very possible that tree has violated your outer membrane; tree roots can split boulders. It needs to go away. And you're right, water can follow dead tree roots as well. It's a good start to extend your drains, you want to lead any and all water AWAY from the foundation walls. That poly is NOT in the right place - in your location, you'll (I think) be heating more than cooling, so any vapor barrier needs to be just under the inside wallboard - in fact, kraft-faced insulation would be the best bet; the paper is the last thing before the first layer of wallboard on the inside of your new stud frame. Where the iffy part comes is that you have a waterproof membrane outside your block, then a vapor barrier at the very inside of the inner wall - this can trap moisture (the likely cause of your existing problems, since that poly is NOT in the right location) and cause dry rot. I asked about the present condition of the wood because dry rot is caused by moisture, but won't feel very moist necessarily; If you've downloaded some of the papers from Building Sciences, you may have read that moisture is driven thru a wall by heat; so when you heat the space, it drives moisture thru the wall and into the wall cavity. There needs to be a vapor barrier to STOP this, and it needs to be right behind the inner wallboard so the moisture doesn't make it into the cavity. If you have ANOTHER vapor barrier at the blocks, you get trapped moisture between the two and everything there either rots or mildews. I have read, and re-read all of the documentation from Building Sciences, and the other links here on Moisture problems. It's finally starting to seep in (no pun intended). It is a whole new world to learn for sure. I am thinking it might be worth setting up a sprinkler in that corner and letting it run for a while to see if I see anything coming in the basement. If I do this I may have to wait a few weeks since the weather here is freezing at the moment, we're supposed to get snow this weekend, and I don't want to make the damage any worse. To start with this weekend I will be adding downspoat extenders, cleaning out the gutters and taping some tinfoil on to one of the sinderblocks to see which side the moisture builds up on. I am about to read this document on basement moisture. This was one of the dcos the basmement guy was showing me. One thing of interest I noticed in here is they advise in the summer to not ventilate with outside air. In my discussion with the HVAC specialist I am explicitly asking him to provision for outside air for the purpose of air exhchange. Depending on how your walls/basement floor were built, they might be able to allow some moisture to drain out through the bottom of the wall and the footing; but maybe not, if that area was sealed tight during construction. You may have no choice but to bust out a place for a sump pump... I asked about your "FOAK" because plasticised paneling will ALSO act as a vapor barrier, so even with your unfaced insulation you could have had two vapor barriers in place, trapping moisture and doing what we see in the pix. Water, especially when the ground water level stays low, doesn't spread out much when soaking into the ground; because of this, you might get away with extending your downspouts AND cutting the sod back maybe 3-4 feet from the house, laying down one of the blankets that are used for covering septic leach lines, and putting the sod back; This should come up your block wall a few inches above dirt level. Doing this would help your soil near the house to drain further from the foundation, so that water would penetrate straight down and not add to the moisture problem in the block wall. I like this idea and think it might be worth a go. I think prevention is half the battle with my moisture and termite issues. Running a dehumidifier will NOT pull more moisture in from outside; the physics are as above - heat inside will drive moisture OUT thru the wall. The dehumidifier will only REDUCE the amount of moisture you have available inside so this = LESS of a problem, not MORE. Yes - that's what I thought... Steel studs and gypsum are the WORST thing you can do where moisture is a problem; Wood studs and wood paneling can handle 10 TIMES as much water per cubic foot as steel/gypsum before it will cause trouble. Masonry can handle 10 times THAT amount, or 100 times as much as steel/gypsum. For that reason, you may want to use heavy plywood for your inner walls INSTEAD of gypsum. Regardless, once you start building you'll want a thermal break under your wall plates. You'll also want to look for some fiberglass pallet strapping - in these cases, you need to leave air space behind your insulation for drying, but still have your insulation kept in contact with the wall panels for damping. This can be done by building frames on the floor, fastening strapping across the back sides of studs every 2 feet with roofing nails, then standing the frames up and adding insulation and panels and caulk. I'm outa ideas for now; let me know on the top questions... Steve Thanks again for taking the time. Oh, and also before I forget. I finally got out into the garage last night to measure the Window from Acoustic Solutions. It is 4'x3' and one pane is 1/2" and the other 1/4" saftey glass. According to their specs it is STC 56, but that is all they could offer. Based on this I am thinking I can go up to 1 1/2" on one leaf and just 3/4 on the other? so 2 layers if 5/8 one side, 3 layers if 1/2 on the other. Does that sound about right? thanks again as always, Andy

andy_eade wrote:

In other news, I just ordered a DVD on Construction basics. Someone here on the forum had recommended it I recall. Having been reading so much here I am starting to pluck up the courage to consider doing the work myself (considering the risk of having an expert balls it up for me!) :D Though the DVD is not geared exactly to the refined purpose of studio building, I am in real need of basic concept knowledge for framing walls etc. I found it for $8.41 as opposed to $15 here: DVD link Thanks again for your help, and look forward to hearing from you again. Andy

Hi Andy, I'm trying to get familiar with as many project threads as I can when time permits. I have one going myself in this construction forum called "Kathy's Barn Conversion". If you haven't had a chance to stop by and check it out, please do. While visiting your thread here, the above quote caught my eye because I too need an instructional video that lays out the basics of building and construction. The "ABC's" as you will. I loved your recommendation. I went right to the website which is called Movies With A Smile and found the DVD called "CONSTRUCTION BASICS". I not only bought that one but an additional title from that same Hometime series called "FLOORING". Seeing as I am knee deep in building a floor on top of a floor, I thought this would be beneficial as well. You can't beat the price! I usually go to Amazon.com for all of my book and video needs because if you don't mind getting it slightly used it's usually half the price. But this place beats Amazon hands down for best bang for your buck. I can't wait for the DVDs to arrive. I'm sure I'll benefit immediately. Thanks for the idea. If you don't mind, I think I'll post this same info over on my thread for those that may not see it here. By the way, great job so far and great questions! Just reading about your project has answered a few of my own situations. Keep it up! Stop by my thread if you get a chance. Kathy

Hi Kathy - actually I have been following your thread diligently also. I have found that the more threads I follow, the more grey areas are filled in my mind. I have been learning so much from other peoples threads that on the rare occasion that I am able to contribute something valuable to someone elses or people are learning from mine; it's a really great feeling. I am hoping that my thread will one day serve as many others have here as a valuable resource. So I'm glad you got the DVD. I have found it useful as I am a complete beginner of this kind of project. I've painted, installed bathrooms and flooring but never framed a wall or hung drywall. I found the DVD extremely useful for this, and it is "Straight down to business" with very little fluff which is nice (Our time is precious enough these days right?). Much of it must be modified to our needs, but you will have that in the back of your mind as you watch. There are plenty of useful tips that I would never have know and the drywalling section is worth watching over and over again. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have. Oh and to Marc - thanks for your moral support on the cinderblock drilling. I may run a sprinkler test first, and I am also having a 3rd and 4th professional opinion come in tomorrow and Monday, but that may be my next step. The more I read about basement moisture issues the more I realize I need to be slow and steady to win this race! Hope the doors work out for you. I have high hopes - they sure look pretty and the guys at Selective Salvage have been awesome so far. I am anticipating a lot of interaction with them over the next year or so, so that is good news! Wishing you all a fun, productive and safe weekend with your projects! Andy :D

Andy, your idea for the window sounds about right. If you have 1/3 the thickness of glass compared to gypsum for EACH SIDE, you're good. Not ventilating with outside air - good advice, especially in the east. Your 60% RH is actually kinda low from what I remember when I lived in Mass. during military hitch. No sense adding even MORE moisture to the inside air when you're PAYING to dehumidify it :cry: I've been running TWO dehumidifiers 24/7 in my house in Oregon for the last few months; average RH used to run 50-60% inside, now it's 30-40% throughout the house. I've never had this LITTLE problem with allergy-related crap. Hallelujah... Steve

But I thought I needed the fresh air from outside to achive full air exchange every half hour. Don't I still need this to prevent "yawning musician syndrome"? Interestingly though at this time of the year in DC with the heating running so much I am having to run a (wait for it) humidifier to keep the house at 30% RH. So right now I have the 1st level at 29 - 35% usually and the basement is a lot more moist (60% today). Maybe I should check what it's like outside too for comparision. Sounds like this window is good enough then for the wall between CR and Drum Room and I will fabricate something for the Vocal Booth in the bottom corner. I hope to get some better pics with lighting this weekend to give you some better detailed shots. Oh, and just for interests sake. This is my list of HVAC requirements I am presenting to the HVAC guys: 1) to have separate send and return lines from the blower and air return units to my control room and live room 2) The duct to be rigid & lined (fiberglass?) for quiet air flow with at least two 90 degree turns/bends (each 90 degree turn = 5ft more length. 3) For the ducts to be slightly larger than the normal size ducts installed in the basement to slow down the air velocity 4) To have some type of filter prior to the air reaching the wall/ceiling grill, and 5) To have some type of grill slightly larger than regular size grills that will blow air quietly and with less velocity. 6) Ventilation / fresh air 7) Duct Silencers 8 ) Multispeed air-handler (Gradually build up speed). 9) Full air exchange every ½ hour. 10) Mustn’t short cycle. The guy that came out earlier this week is working on a quote and suggested he would be able to follow the above as well as provide seperate thermostats in both the CR and Drum room that would somehow open and close a thingy :oops: that would heat or A/C the roooms. This way I can have seperately controlled zones off of the one existing unit. My only conern with this is that he says it would open up heat or cool the room quickly and then close. Ummm isn't that the same as short cycling? :shock: I have another guy coming on Monday too so we will see what he suggests. Many Thanks again, Andy

You DO need fresh air makeup - east coast winters are pretty dry, so it would only need to be heated (air-air heat exchanger) - summer, if your AC can't keep humidity under 45% you'll need a separate unit - besides the mold thing, acoustic wood instruments all like around 40-42 %... Steve BTW, pretty much ALL free-standing dehumidifiers I've had experience with are too noisey to leave running while you're recording, or even mixing for that matter... Steve

So to give you an update on a couple of items. I had Terminix in on Saturday to give me a second opinion. The guy was very thorough and proposed the same solution as the guy from Permatreat. He was planning on drilling into the slab around the perimeter of the basement about every 12" and installing the product. I forget what it is called, but I remember it is the one that Keith had recommended. Terminix came in about $200 more expensive for the treatment than Permatreat, but they offer a warranty that covers not only their work, but also covers your property and anything damaged by termites as long as the warranty is valid. You can renew it every year for $225, again quite expensive but considering that all my goodies and investment will be in the basement I think the extra protection maybe worthwhile. Permatreat's warranty can be renewed annually for $90 but does not cover property damage. All things probably worth considering if you run into a similar problem - particularly as home owners insurance does not protect your belongings / property against termite damage as far as I'm aware. As a bonus he said he would throw in Ant treatment for free (usually a couple hundred bucks) as I found have a couple million ants nesting in the basement as you will see from the pictures to follow. This guy concluded the same as the guy from Permatreat - that the damage was very localized (i.e. I'm very lucky compared to most), and was not moisture damage, but was solely termite damage. He said that he has been in many basements, and considering the condition of the 2x4's and the batt's etc I should be okay by taking the outside preventative steps that I had mentioned. Namely: 1) Extend all downspouts 2) Add a rubber / polythene blanket a couple inches beneath the soil, sloping away from the house for about 4 - 6 feet, sloping at 2" per foot. He said that he would expect to see some very visual indicators on the studs or batt's if there were a more significant problem, and said that he is in basements on a daily basis that have this. e.g.. green mossy substance / mold / tide marks on 2x4's. While I think about it let me share a couple of links I was reading over the last couple of days in addition to the Building Science pages, that I have found useful: http://www.ruralhometech.com/drainage/drainage.php http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Build/prvlksbs.html Another link that may be useful to you. After spending a day researching dehumidifiers that come well recommended and that are relatively quiet; I settled on the Danby DDR600R. Most places were selling for $249 to $299, but I found Target online selling for only $199 - get one quick while you still can: http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=2-2/qid=1139851252/ref=sr_2_2/601-3471121-6059311?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=B000CR3Y5E It looks to be just what I need and is remote controlled too, which could prove useful, considering the application. I am also considering plumbing it up permanently which would mean running some kind of pipes through my walls to the sink in the laundry room next door. I figured that would probably be preferable to having to empty the bucket every 8 hours. So, now on to the weekend update. I was able to get more demo done on Saturday and take some more pictures too. I removed the remaining wood panels and batts from the front and side wall to inspect for moisture and any other damage. I also pulled up the carpet, and the foam underlay, and was surprised to find no type of moisture barrier underneath, except a previous vinyl tile floor that was glued straight to the concrete slab. I guess the previous owners though that was enough? There were many more surprises in store for me as you can see from the pictures below. 1) To save floor space the "builders" of the previously "refinished" basement had installed the 2x4's on their side. This did not give them enough clearance to install electrical outlets on the stud as you would normally. So, what did they do? They CUT INTO THE HOLLOW BLOCKS and submerged them into the cavity. This also involved them cutting a hole in the moisture retarder. You will notice from the pictures that wherever they did this the Batt's have a black discoloration (which I'm assuming may be mold) where moisture is getting in. Not surprising really considering. Surely this can't meet code! I noticed the same black discoloration at another point where they had previously drilled a hole to bring a cable through (again pictured below.) 2) A couple of huge ant colonies; both of which were about ½ inch thick with ants. There must have been millions! Trust me - the pictures do not even do justice to how many there were. You can see from the picture called wallants.jpg that between the 1st two studs - anything that looks black is an ant colony. 3) I also noticed that on many of the studs there was a white spotting, pictured in white spots on studs.jpg. Anyone have any idea what this is? Some kind of mold starting to grow? Or paint maybe? It didn't appear to be raised in texture at all. 4) There does appear to be some efflorescence on some of the blocks that are above grade. Why would this happen on blocks that are above grade? Thinking I should check the level of the land out there. Maybe it is no longer above grade. 5) Also noticed some oddspots on the back of the carpet - oddspots closeup.jpg - again - anyone? Mold maybe? 6) Also found some slight tide marks on the back of the carpet and foam as I lifted it (removing carpet.jpg), but no surprise really considering there was no barrier on the slab. 7) There is another break in the Moisture Retartder in the corner where the termite damage was worst. See pierced_plastic_corner.jpg I've also added some extra pictures of the termite poop (Sawdust) so you'll know what it looks like if ever you see it, and a close-up of the back of the worst affected "Foak" Panel. Next jobs will be to begin removing the vinyl tiles from the floor, bringing the ceiling down, and fixing the outside grading and drainage issues. The last item has to wait until the foot of snow melts that we just got dumped on us this weekend. All the while of course the basement moisture will be under very close monitoring! That's all for now... Andy.

more pics...

final pics...

Open question: - As I begin removing the Batts and 2x4's - do you think I can save and re-use any that are not damaged by mold / moisture. - Any recommendations or advice anyone can offer for removing the existing drywall ceiling? What tools to use, where to start, pitfalls to avoid etc? anyone? :?

MAN! you started your own private enormous ANT farm right there! How ya gonna get rid of'm. Vacuumcleaner? Smoke? Poison? Let Bill take care of'm? looks nasty !

I wouldn't take the chance for a few $ that you didn't still have damage on the structural wood - insulation, maybe; I wouldn't, but if it's not too bad you might save a couple $$. Drywall ceiling - is this textured, and if so pls post a closeup pic taken at a 45 degree angle, AND one taken "head on"... Steve

Steve, No it's not textured (thankfully). I am hoping to remove it well enough to use for my "beef up" in between the existing joists. I'm just not sure where / how to start. Tools to use, where to start etc... Do you still need any additional pics? I can get some as soon as I am home from work...

Nope; just wanted to make sure it wasn't "popcorn" texture that might contain asbestos... Steve

Oh no. It's definitely Sheetrock... One other Termite point I forgot to close the loop with Keith on was the re-application / piping question. I talked to the guy that came out on Saturday about it and he said that out here on the East Coast we don't have anywhere near the Termite problems that you do, and that one the initial treatment is done down in the slab, they would only need to maintain treatment from outside. He said that the termidor product should work for 7 to 10 years and they would come by yearly to inspect and maintain (all part of the $225 annual warranty fee). Just thought I would close the loop on that while I was posting this reply to save yet another post... (Hope you don't mind the Mix and Match Steve). Cheers, Andy

Doors arrived this morning and they are indeed solid core, very heavy and beautiful! Best $50 I ever spent! For a slavage place they were awesome! They called me yesterday to confirm whether I wanted left or right opening. Bubbled wrapped each one individually before loading on their truck for delivery, and even carried them into their new temporary home in the garage. I highly recommend these for anyone else in the area looking for doors. I plan on cutting a foot or so off the top of these doors (as they were 8ft originally). Does anyone have any tips on how to cut them without damaging the vener too much? Also still hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on removing the drywall from the ceiling intact. Many Thanks... Andy

oooh, and one other question for Steve (or anyone else) in addition to the above. You had mentioned about using plywood instead of gyp for the cinderblock walls that have some moisture... Is there anyway that I could mount these directly to the cinderblock to overcome the 3 leaf problem, without furthering my moisture risk? i.e. would not allowing a 1 inch breathing space, then framing stuffed with insulation risk rotting the plywood? Is there anyway to overcome this 3 leaf problem other then drilling the cinderblock and filling with sand?

I plan on cutting a foot or so off the top of these doors (as they were 8ft originally). Does anyone have any tips on how to cut them without damaging the vener too much?

Put a piece of wide masking tape along where the cut will be and place your pencil mark (cut line) on the tape. Then, using a straight edge, make a cut using a sharp knife along the cut line, cutting thru the layer of veneer or at least as deep into it as you can. This will cut the surface fibers of wood and prevent them from splitting and chipping when you cut it using a saw. Oh yeah - you only have to do this on the top side because of the way the blade turns, but if you want to be safe go ahead and tape/cut both sides. Good luck :D And here's how to remove drywall from your ceiling intact: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: HOLY CRAP!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Andy, you're doing a terrific job of dealing with this problem. I applaud your thoroughness. Imagine how much damage has been done just to save two inches of floor space around the perimeter of those walls... :evil: Imagine how this all could have been avoided if the previous homeowner had followed code and gotten a permit for the work. Thanks for sharing all of the depth of the details and for posting these very illuminating pictures. We should all pause to consider that we are witnessing the consequences of a failed plan and/or a failure to plan. (Not yours, Andy -- the idiot(s) that preceded you.) I still wonder whether any of this could have been detected by the home inspector or the termite inspector from when the house was sold... What was your exact escrow close date? :roll:

Thanks Sandersd, I knew there was a way, and I was thinking it involved tape, but I had missed the most important part about cutting into the vener with a knife. Thanks so much for passing that on. Look forward to your Gems on the ceiling demo too! Many Thanks! Keith - Superier Pest Control Came in at lunchtime today and offered the same solution as Terminix for about $200 cheaper, plus the annual warranty is $50 cheaper to cover your new installation and belongings up to $100,000. I found out that this is in fact a warranty that Termidor offers, so any company using that product should offer it. They are coming out Saturday 7am to do the treatment - total cost will be $785, and then renewal will be $175 per year. The said guy that having the basement walls exposed is the perfect time to get in there and makes life so much easier for them. He said that it's in their interests to be as thorough as possible, and get as much of the termidor in the ground as possible to prevent re-occurance which ultimatley ends up costing them. I think he said that any damage under $10k is paid for by them , not the manufaturer. All of the damage is pre-existing to my house purchase. (I purchased in March '04- I think it was the 2nd, inspections were done in the February). We found some other areas in the laundry room that were not covered by any panels, batts or anything that the guy saw immediatly as he walked in so there is no excuse that the original Termite inspector should have. Glad also that my thread is starting to serve a purpose for people other than myself. Makes me feel like I'm finally able to start giving back a little, where until now all I've been doing is taking. :D That's a good feeling. Looks like your attention to detail is starting to rub off on me Keith! :D Incidentaly, I took a trip to the town hall at lunch time to get my permit app's and instructions. Here in Herndon we have to fill out one for the building work, one for the HVAC (Mechanical Permit), and one for the electrical. If the building work is not being done by contractor then you have to sign an affidavit instead. Have one more visit from the basement moisture "cowboys" supervisor tonight - could be interesting! Although I still plan to work on the outside and keep the inside under close focus monitoring for the next month or so. Next week will be meetings with electricians (need to get a new panel, and get a quote for how much running the basement on a new circuit would run), and hopefully some quotes from contractors to confirm whether or not am I about to become fully hands on and have a studio in 2 - 3 years or if I can afford to have my studio on more like 6 - 12 months. Also waiting on the quotes to come back from the two HVAC guys that have been in. Stay tuned!

Yup, I'm familiar with the "owner declaration" affidavit -- the one that says, basically, "I'm doing the work myself and/or I'll hire licensed subcontractors as needed." Get the exact dates of your inspections. To be safe you may want to file suit in small claims court right away against the home inspector, the termite inspector, and perhaps the previous owner, all as co-defendants, just to preserve your rights before the two-year anniversary (likely the statute of limitations). File for the maximum amount (I think Virginia's maximum is a measely $2K) -- you can reduce the amount later if needed, and you can always dismiss the case later if you determine there's no way you could possibly prevail. Remember: Home and termite inspectors carry liability insurance for a reason. This is definitely not frivilous.