Marc's Patio & Garage Studio

Now, you did use pressure treated lumber for the threshold, didn't you?

Yes, I referred to it above as PT lumber. AND now I have to make up my mind whether to use the sub-sill board I had cut (and put a lot of thought/energy into) OR use grout like you suggested. Main purpose of board sub-sill right now will be for framing inspection, if inspector asks I have something to level sub-sill. Just to make sure were talking grout NOT mortar? I am currently researching the uses of both. AND since I got you attention, another related question/looking for opinion. The slab of my room on the old patio side, in 9' 6" distance drops about 1 7/8" from height of garage slab (where I remove the Concrete block wall) to the outside edge of my new footer (the wall in pic, last post). I wish I would have been able to convince architect to let me pour this entire section NEW (wouldn't have unlevel sub-sill either) but now I've got just got to deal with it. Current plan is to use self leveling concrete (found in flooring section of home improvement stores) at a cost of $35 to $45 per 50 pound bag. I'm guessing I'll need at least 4 or 5 bags OR more to level out my floor before I put my inner frame walls up and eventual engineered hardwood flooring. Directions for self leveling concrete say spread (layers) no more than 1/2" thick, which gives me an indication maybe this product is only meant for top layer, just before applying flooring. (Also indicates why I've read on net that most builders prefer to completely remove a patio slab and pour a new slab before building in such a fashion.) In your opinion, would it be a wise idea to use grout OR mortar to raise the unlevel parts of my floor to say 1/4" to 1/2" shy of level, use no feather edge technique (keep mortar say min 1/2" thick to prevent cracking) and then use the self leveling concrete to complete leveling? I'm still researching the idea, but thought I'd run it past use since you seem familiar with these products and actual use. IF I decided to use grout (and/or mortar and self leveling concrete) on entire floor then I may as well use it in sub sill too, just makes sense. Thanks Marc

Have you ever heard of a mortar bed such as is used under tile? Masons use it to level a floor in preparation for laying tile. It can be several inches thick. My point is it a common practice and is considered by many tile men the best substrate for laying tile. If it works for tile, it'll work for other flooring also. You don't need self-leveling concrete unless you are laying a floor that requires a precisely leveled floor. Just make sure any aggregate in concrete is smaller than the thinnest areas of concrete.

Cool Thanks Sandersd, Yup I knew the words "mortar" and "tile" go together but with out much thought, figured that was just for between the tiles... my ignorance. Directions for hardwood floor state level OR flat within 3/16" in a 10' radius or something ridiciously flat like that AND self leveling concrete as the product to use. Recommendation for my area is hardwood (with proper adhesive depending on laminate OR engineered hard wood) directly to the concrete. I want to raise the floor as little as possible to maintain height of finished room. From existing slab(s) to bottom chord of truss I got about 101" and will be using double ceiling construction with 2x6 joists on inner walls. Still thinking about an "inside out" inner leaf ceiling which would leave room for a built in cloud... BUT other wise height of room will end up just over 7' 6". I've (read) been warned about using other concrete products to a feathered out edge, most likely will crack after a period of time, especially regular concrete which should be min 3 1/2" thick. Again showing my ignorance to mortar. So unless some one objects or I find a reason not to, I think I'm going to level out my floor mostly with mortar, then use self leveling concrete. Sandersd, THANK -YOU... don't know if I would have figured/searched this out this out otherwise (HD and Lowes staff did not make this suggestion either). This will save me at least $200 on leveling floor. Marc

Make sure you research how to do it properly. It's at least a three out of five hammer job. Most references I've read recommend a skilled mason. Still, it's not rocket science - just do your homework.

It's at least a three out of five hammer job

Not sure what you mean by that? :oops: SMALL PROGRESS: Got my wall with door all anchored in today & fixed a few minor things. Made trip to lumber yard, got everything needed to finish frame. Got side tracked with other household projects. Ripped out my F'd up door frame. Took a pic :D for at least Andy Eade to see as we've be talking about door frames/headers on his thread. Taking out newly done work is not fun, this job required crow bar, 2 hammers, sledge and one (now bent) flat head screw driver. Now go ahead and laugh at 2nd pic. I put my door in place & level so that I could get exact measurement for jack studs from the actual door. I really don't want to screw this up twice. That's all I had time for today. I'm now doubting I can call for an inspection on Friday. Marc

Hang in there buddy - you're doin great :!: I have yet to do my doors so consider youself a teacher too ....:) Take Care and KEEP POWERING!!

You are truly an inspiration, Marc! Excellent job!! 8) Seriously... I don't think I could have done such a fine job myself. 8) So, are you like I am, in that anytime you do something really significant on your project, you drag the wife outside and show it off? :lol: :twisted: And about that door... I know you've talked about the strict code requirements in your world as it relates to exterior doors. What steps did you take in choosing that door to ensure that the window won't be a huge compromise in your isolation? Please orgive me if you've already answered this question previously... --Keith :mrgreen:

Sideshow, Thanks for the comments :D :D :D :D :D

So, are you like I am, in that anytime you do something really significant on your project, you drag the wife outside and show it off?

Yup I showed the wife the door in place so she'd have a visual. Don't have to drag her out every time. Yesterday I was banging down on the top plate of that wall with door from the attic with a sledge hammer (using scrap wood to actually hit). Studs are all different lengths to match pitch of patio. The 1/4" gap I wanted between top plates and perpendicular truss ended up in various spots of wall frame, mostly between bottom plate and studs, the U shape SPZ4 straps were holding the studs up a bit. Also had to undo and re fasten a few of those straps. Anyways, sledge hammer on lumber attached to truss shook the entire house, things almost fell off the wall and I did not have to drag her out, she had to see WTF I was doing.

What steps did you take in choosing that door to ensure that the window won't be a huge compromise in your isolation? Please forgive me if you've already answered this question previously...

1. Made sure the window was single pane of glass. That was hard enough to get and limited the options even more. 2.... Ahhh I'm going to re post what I wrote about my door on May 5 The Door: I visited 4 places looking for my one exterior door and it came down to a Jeld-Wen exterior steel door to: satisfy code (wind sheer & door has to be new), try to keep sound isolation (single pane glass & mass of door) and my budget (couldn’t afford real wood) The tech info on door I supplied with permit is general to 2 collections of Jeld-Wen Doors. I could back out of the exact door I’ve chosen should some one suggest. Door will look like this with just plane glass, no decorative glass: Corner (cross) Sample: A. Standard wood stiles and rails create a complete thermal break. A wood edge is standard. B. Two coats of neutral, low-sheen, baked-on enamel primer enables easier finishing. C. One-piece polystyrene core provides a custom fit, eliminating core voids and delivering long-lasting insulation. D. 24-or 25-gauge cold-rolled galvanized steel resists rust and corrosion. E. JELD-WEN® steel doors feature 1" LVL (laminated veneer lumber) lock stile and top rail for sturdy construction that resists warping and buckling. F. Epoxy primer on the back of the steel prevents corrosion from the inside out. G. Rigid/flexible PVC door sweep provides a more durable, energy efficient weather seal. H. 22-gauge continuous roll-formed steel edge meets market demands and 90-minute fire-rating requirements. I. Epoxy primer on the back of the steel prevents corrosion from the inside out. J. One-piece polystyrene core provides a custom fit, eliminating core voids and delivering long-lasting insulation. K. 24-gauge cold-rolled galvanized steel resists rust and corrosion. L. Two coats of neutral, low-sheen, baked-on enamel primer enables easier finishing. M. Steel bottom rail Above info is from http://www.jeld-wen.com/exteriordoors/steel/index.cfm (the 2 door collections I can still choose from are Energy Saver® and Gladiator®) My only concerns about the door: 1. Wood edge inside door is great but polystyrene filled core provides no mass. To my understanding this stuff is closed cell and will not make the steel act as 2 leafs. The whole door will be one leaf. 2. I’ve chosen a ½ lite door with a single pane of glass 1/8th inch thick. The glass insert is 22” W, 36”H. 3. It is pre-hung and parts of the jam I presume I will have to fill with mass of some sort. Marc

Today's progress: Double braces for every seam of sheathing. Door frame, level and GOOD :wink: I fit the door into my new frame. This wall is completely strapped... except for the one middle cripple stud above door header. Nothing in the plan says I should strap the bottom of this to header but since every other darn piece of wood is strapped, why not this one too. I am growing tired of straps. This at least doubles OR triples the amount of nailing to complete the framing. Strap nails are 10d, 1 1/2" long so they go in easy. This has got to be the strongest door frame ever posted on this forum. :twisted: Still have to add 2nd row of brace to the other wall, put 12' long double 2x8 screen wall header in and then strap the top of other wall and 12' header. I will not call for inspection for Friday. I guess I'll get this done over the weekend which I've cleared of gigs. Monday is "D Day". Don't know if I want to call for inspection while my wife is in recovery, in hospital till Thursday next week. Marc

I'll say -- that's one very strong door frame! 8) I think I know what room in your house will become the place to be in the event of a hurricane! :twisted: That double row of horizontal blocks is interesting. Is that also a code requirement in your world? Quit working so hard, Marc -- you're tiring me out just watching you work! :lol: (Not to mention you're making me look bad! :P) --Keith :mrgreen:

That double row of horizontal blocks is interesting. Is that also a code requirement in your world?

Yes, required for every seam in sheathing (1/2" OSB) SO one block is 4' centered from top other is 4' centered from bottom of frame. Marc

Today's Progress, 1st I thought I had a day time gig today BUT it's an evening gig so I got some stuff done. Tried to place my hanger for double 2x8 screen wall header. Would not fit. See 1st pic. Called and went to see Peter armed with pics. Choice was either fill area above CB wall with grout so that hanger would fit. This would not be the easiest space to fill with grout and my instinct was not to do this from the shape of the spot... See 2nd pic. Other option was to use double PT 2x4's, anchor bolt to wall below. These will get covered in stucco and my new screen wall will lose 3' of width. Also got the 12 foot long 2x8 header with 1/2" OSB assembled. Made another trip to lumber yard. Decided to almost completely change the way Peter had told me to strap tie my other wall. After reviewing Simpson High Wind Catalog, specifically the Gable End connection page, I've decided to use the Proper straps and ties for the job. Will be a lot cleaner install and these straps will not interfere isolation... with Peters method I would have a hard time (not impossible) sealing the edge of outer leaf drywall with backer rod and caulk. Marc

The upside to all this pain - after the NEXT hurricane, if gigs are slow you can always hire out as a KNOWLEDGEABLE repair guy, unlike your team of "lenny and squiggy" :? ... Steve

I like your strategy of supporting your header by the double pressure-treated studs anchored to the wall, versus hanging them. I think your solution is stronger. I'm sure you won't miss the three inches. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

you can always hire out as a KNOWLEDGEABLE repair guy

Yeah, and some of my friends are already asking me "how much to do ____ repair to my house?"

I like your strategy of supporting your header by the double pressure-treated studs anchored to the wall, versus hanging them. I think your solution is stronger. I'm sure you won't miss the three inches.

Yup won't miss 3". You know I posted the wrong pic to really show why I choose the double 2x4 studs over the hanger, see pic... Peter (squiggly) was going to have me cut the left flange off of the hanger so that it would not stick out the side of house :shock: Note I'm holding the hanger as far in from side of house as I could get it, would have had to cut right at the weld point. Good thing I only wasted $20 on the hanger. ANYBODY NEED a WNP-28-8 masonry to wood hanger? If there is a taker they can have my thrashed old circular saw too. :twisted: AND a couple QUESTIONS/CONCERNS. 1. I going to be sheathing with 1/2" OSB soon. Directions are leave 1/8" gap between edges of all panels. All my edges will meet a stud or brace. Tyvek, then lath stucco is going over this. Should I caulk OR stuff backer rod into the 1/8" gaps? 2. Also I'm slightly concerned from all the clips and ties I have on frame that small pockets of air will be left on adjacent areas to clips. This will be a small space, small tripple leaf... should I be concerned and if so suggestion to fix? Marc

Progress: No pics, to dark and to tired. -Got 2nd row of bracing done today on wall without door. -Got almost all of the clips and straps in. -Only hit 3 times with hammer the same spot on end of left index finger while holding nails, working in tight spot with some L shape clips. -Drew blood from right hand pinkie knuckle for at least the third time. Again I always scrape the same spot. -Decided to leave the blood on the walls. -Got the 12' double 2x8 header in position with help from father in-law. It went in tightly and good with just a few sledge blows. All I got left is to strap header and pound a few nails. I don't know what day I'm going to call for an inspection. Marc

Hey Marc - we've always known you were putting your blood, sweat, and tears into that framing! :lol: I don't think you need to or necessarily use backer rod OR caulk between sheathing panels. The wall will be air tight when you're done. That sheathing gap is for expansion, so just let it. And remember you'll have framing members at the seams to make up for the tiny loss of mass. Also, I wouldn't worry about the miniscule air pockets around your straps. I've got the same thing with my seismic ties and I'm not losing a moment's sleep over it. :-) But if you still care, then you can slather on some drywall joint compound to feather them out a bit. --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, Thanks, I was not to concerned about those two issue's, thanks for the advice makes perfect sense. There are just small gaps. Progress: DONE with exterior framing. For such small walls THAT WAS A LOT OF WORK. Note some of the straps are not nailed in yet, hanging obviously loose, they are going to be nailed on on outside of sheathing. Had to place them for inspector and if I don't place them 1st it'll be really hard to line them up to studs with sheathing in the way. The 12' long header also sticks out the width of the sheathing with one strap loose on purpose. Reason is because the header is going where once a 2x4 top plate was. Existing furring strips of ceiling did not allow for header to go in from edge of truss 1/2", like the wall does. Took some pics of the L straps for top plate to truss/rafter. I think the one with the vertical slot is cool as it allows for expansion of truss and wall. The other one is the one that was PITA to put in. Simpson specs 1 1/2" 8d nails for that clip (A35) but nobody sells 1 1/2" 8d nails. Lumber yard said that Simpson says "just pound the larger 10d nail through the smaller hole meant for 8d. PLUS being in a tight spot with not much room for hammer swing and pounding through the harder wood of existing truss, lead to my minor hand injuries. :twisted: Marc

Hey Marc, I had the same trouble finding the proper nails for my seismic ties. I finally found them at Home Depot of all places. I don't think pounding fatter joist hanger screws into the ties is a good idea. It's probably too late for you though... Also, is that a picture of a non-load bearing sliding-type top plate to truss connector? If so, you're supposed to allow a gap so that the truss can rise and fall slightly.

Also, is that a picture of a non-load bearing sliding-type top plate to truss connector? If so, you're supposed to allow a gap so that the truss can rise and fall slightly.

Yes, the 4th pic above (ends with 004) shows a sliding top plate to truss connector and there is a 1/4" gap between truss and top plate (gap slightly viewable in the pic). That's my wall with door which is perpendicular to truss. The other connector shown in pic ending with 005, is non sliding. It connects gable end truss to new exterior wall below. On the gable end (in at least high wind conditions) a solid connection with no gap is required between wall and truss (actually from slab all the way up to truss using straps and ties the whole way). I checked every where for the correct nails (for connector in pic 005), including the local place which is more expensive and usually has everything (since the Space Center shops there for special items.) Lumber guy said he stocks everything Simpson requires. As it was put to me... the Simpson distributor told the lumber guy, to tell his customers to use 10d nails instead of 8d for these and other few straps. I used 8d- 3" where I could, where I had to use 1 1/2" I used the 10d. The difference in diameter is almost nothing. Just took a few extra more careful hammer strikes, per nail. Lumber guy implied this is an oversight on Simpson behalf. It's not a big deal. :D Marc

WELL It's a GIRL!!! :D :D :D :D :D Cami was born this morning, a "text book" C. Did not enjoy the 6am arrival to hospital, a real disturbance of my sleep pattern. In fact I'm still at hospital, wife and baby are asleep and I'm killing time. :twisted: FREE wifi is great. Progress How can a dad make progress on a home renovation project spending all day at the hospital with a new born? Been working in SketchUp on design with down time through out the day. I called for an inspection for tomorrow BUT was 10 Min's to late, thought they closed at 5pm BUT after getting so many busy signals I called the building code phone number to find out close time of 4:30 for inspection calls :cry: :cry: :cry: Part of calling late was the fact that my cingular phone service was down for "out of network calls" for the entire morning. What a day to loose cell phone service when I want to call EVERYBODY :roll: Also found out that inspectors are not working Thur (Thanks Giving) nor Friday giving them a long week end. So I got to figure out whether to call tomorrow for an inspection on Wednesday (day wife should be discharged), or call Wednesday and get inspection for Monday. :twisted: Hmmm, I'll wait to make a decision tomorrow depending on what docs say. Marc

Congrats!

Aloha Marc, Congratulations on your new daughter! Aloha 8)

You know the drill, Marc -- piccies, or it didn't happen! :lol: :lol: :lol: Just the final outcome, please -- neither progress pics nor initial step pics are welcome here! ;-) Seriously -- congratulations! I'll bet big brother is excited too. :-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Thank-you so much Edo & Kendale.

You know the drill, Marc -- piccies, or it didn't happen! Just the final outcome, please -- neither progress pics nor initial step pics are welcome here! ;-)

Well, I do try not to include myself (other than my hand holding something) in progress pics. Do you remember how many drawings and all the details I included on my 1ts post of this thread for the initial steps? All of which have changed. Where would I begin on this subject? Final outcome is a good idea. I was waiting to post a more "picture perfect" pic but here you go. Marc