Marc's Patio & Garage Studio

guitardad72 wrote:

. . . He struggled with getting a few pieces in cause... he did not start off planning to put these in and "the plan" calls for 18" dowels which did not allow everything to meet up. A few of the "L's" got turned around. PLUS he could have cut some of these L peices some more. OH well. . .

Marc, I have to say that I'll be surprised if that passes. :roll: Good luck, bro. --Keith :mrgreen:

Marc, I have to say that I'll be surprised if that passes. Good luck, bro.

Well if I would have to make a bet, I would say pass... that's not saying I am 100% satisfied with the quality of work, but I think it'll end up strong enough for purpose and will at least look fine on top. :roll: I say pass because my experience 4 times now and tons of hear say with inspectors around here is: it takes large mistakes to fail something unless the inspector is one of the few knowledgeable ones, who takes the time to look (for something wrong). Hell the inspectors have told me not to get permits for things I should have like my fence in back yard. :shock: The inspector this morning had me laughing... 1st he was just going to pass me till I said something... then I pointed out the "B section"... on the paper B section is a cross section, drew on the foundation plan in the upper right corner where my room will be... he started walking over there, away from footer saying "well there's suppose to be a footer over there" :lol: Take a look at the plan again if you're not getting what I mean, but he really walked away from the footer he just jumped over to look for the footer. :? Once I pointed out B section was a cross section, he looked from where he stood and said "it's backwards"... of course I said "depends which way you look". I have no idea if he's the inspector who will come back tommorow. The regular inspector for my area just quit, other guys are filling in the slack in my area of the county. Marc

Fences under 6 feet tall in my city can be built sans permit. Same with most retaining walls under three feet tall I think. Perhaps your town allows fences under a certain height to be built without a permit too... :roll: Wow, that inspector's not the sharpest knife in the drawer! :lol: What's the highest rebar point relative to what will be the surface of the footing? In other words, how close will the top ends of those L-shaped pieces be to the surface? I know there's a minimum allowable submerge level, I just don't know what it is... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

What's the highest rebar point relative to what will be the surface of the footing? In other words, how close will the top ends of those L-shaped pieces be to the surface? I know there's a minimum allowable submerge level, I just don't know what it is...

:roll: Atleast 2 of these rebar peices are currently sticking 1/2" to an 1" above above the level of finished floor. For kicks and giggles I am going to leave it as is for inspection, I could use my 4 1/2" angle grinder cut off. I'm not going to let the pour happen till it's cut off/sunk/submerged to the correct level. If min slab thick is 3 1/2" the rebar the min submerge level must atleast be an 1", could be as much as 1 3/4". I'll find out.

Wow, that inspector's not the sharpest knife in the drawer!

This was expected.

Fences under 6 feet tall in my city can be built sans permit. Same with most retaining walls under three feet tall I think. Perhaps your town allows fences under a certain height to be built without a permit too...

Alright completely off topic of studio build but still on topic of permit/inspections in my area: Fence, in Florida fence code takes care of at least 2 important issues: Hurricane Wind and flooding. Not sure if there is a max height where no permit is needed but my fence is 6' tall. The flooding: does not apply to me but if I would have built a concrete wall with a footer, drainage issues would appply. Part of code for the 6' wood panel fence I built is 8' OC posts, 50% height of post is in ground/ my 6' post need to be 3' in the ground and for this type of fence 180 pounds of concrete per post. Guy at HD said hardly anyone actually puts 180 pounds per post. I got a 5' deep easement for utility and drainage along the back of my lot, which to code I should have put the fence on the inside edge of easement. However there is one big lot behing mine, in a striaght line 6 other houses on my street share the property line, 4 out of 6 house had a fence built at the property line not the easement, 1 fence was 4' from line still on easement. I called inspection office and stated my case, wanted to put the fence on property line like 4 out of 6 on my street. I could have wrote the power company and may have gotten the utililty easement part taken care of. The drainage part would have required zoning to get involved. The inspector and I talked breifly about all that and then he said "If it was me I would just put up the fence and if you ever need to take it down for power company, take it down and put it back up" So I built the fence, damn near 180 pounds concrete per post, 3' min post in ground but I over dug a couple and had 10' 4x4 posts so some are 4' in ground.

guitardad72 wrote:

Atleast 2 of these rebar peices are currently sticking 1/2" to an 1" above above the level of finished floor.

It kind of looked like that might be the case from the photo... :roll: ...but I know photos can be deceiving in terms of depth perception at times. I've gotta say what you're probably thinking: that rebar work isn't instilling much confidence. :? I hope everything turns out OK, bro. --Keith :mrgreen:

Well it's all up to me now to make sure the concrete pour & rebar is correct. I Passed inspection. 3 hours till pour. Marc

CONCRETE James is finishing as I post. They got hear 2 1/2 hours early then expected so I was running. Rebar got cut, James said rebar has to be min 1" below surface. Below is a mixer truck, Concrete pump with hose on a trailor and various pics. Marc

Some more details about today's pour. Right after I wrote the post "it passed", which was 5 Min's after inspection, I went to work for final detail stuff. I thought I had 3 hours till pour. It turned into 1/2 an hour, mix truck was available and James was done at another job site. I lucked out with applying concrete bonding stuff. Could not apply till after I passed inspection. Directions are apply to old cement, let dry and then pour new. The container gave no indication of dry time. Maybe and hour after applying it was dry and cement got poured :D I did not have enough time to empty out all of sand from removed wall footer/ the block cavities which were exposed in my floor right under my eventual sweet spot. I got each cavity at least 6" deep and filled with concrete. I'll post a pic tomorrow. That concrete pump and mix truck were the bomb. No wheel barreling cement and very little mess from cleaning out the mix truck and pump. There should have been no spillage from a wheel barrel BUT we emptied concrete out hose into my wheel barrel and this extra was to be used as fill for low spots. I decided to move wheel barrel closer to footer, hit a bump and spilled a real wet mix of concrete onto my patio stones. I cleaned them off with water and now there is no way around it I got to really clean up around those patio stones eventually. Water from clean out got sprayed onto yard and grass will recover. The concrete was 3000 PRPM (PSI) mixed with Mono Fiber 0.75 (instead of using 6" grid rebar). Actual cost was $409.16, not $375 (cash for contractor price) like James quoted so he made up the difference... then I gave him back $25 as a tip, just cause that was change from a $100 bill. I used 1.6 yards of concrete, but the above # is min charge for 3 yards. As Steve warned earlier:

Unless you're not finished with forms, looks to me like your angled braces are too steep (easier to push over with weight of concrete) and too far between.

I went with James opinion, leave as is and yup the forms moved out at least 1/2" from where they were placed. Not a big deal but I will have to address this when I finish the bottom outside of wall, got to make sure water runs away from house. It won't be an issue where I'm putting a new screen wall for patio, does not matter there. This was a small issue in placing J bolts as we could not use the formed edge as a start mark, had to make a right angle triangle measurement to find a line to set the J bolts in a straight line. Little PITA and I'm sure Sharward will say should have built hangers/holders for J-bolts like he did, plus put in more kickers/ angle bracing. I'll take some more pics tomorrow in daylight before and after forms come off. Today I had a different inspector who was more concerned complaining about zig zag driving to get to his inspections for the day then the inspection it self... he barely looked and signed off for a pass. I'm sure I'm missing some details from today. Bottom line this turned out well. I'm sure I got a good footer and glad I made the decision to pour a new footer rather than build on edge of existing slab. Inspiration to pour new footer came from Sharward a post from Rod where in part Rod wrote:

As a matter of fact, I would be very surprised to find an inspector in Florida who would allow you to construct on that with out first proving to them that this was the case........ so make sure to take plenty of photos for them if (indeed) the footings and foundation do exist.

So I say this sarcastically disappointed: Based on the quality of five inspections I've experienced so far, if I would have built on the edge of a slab with no footer, I'm 99% sure I would have passed what would have been my next inspection of framing. Inspector just would not have looked, this would have required a shovel and the guy may have been more concerned about driving directions, lunch or who knows what. :roll: Marc

AND I grabbed a small video from my digital camera, not great quality cause of the sun & shadow over work area... but it shows how quick the concrete comes out of pump. Conrete Pump in action

:D :D :D Great pics!!!! :D :D :D And great video too! That pump is awesome! :twisted:

guitardad72 wrote:

The concrete was 3000 PRPM (PSI) mixed with Mono Fiber 0.75 (instead of using 6" grid rebar). Actual cost was $409.16, not $375 (cash for contractor price) like James quoted so he made up the difference... then I gave him back $25 as a tip, just cause that was change from a $100 bill. I used 1.6 yards of concrete, but the above # is min charge for 3 yards.

My 5 yards delivered was around $700 as I recall... And since it was more than could fit in a 1 yard trailer, I doubt you could have done much better.

guitardad72 wrote:

. . . I'm sure Sharward will say should have built hangers/holders for J-bolts like he did, plus put in more kickers/ angle bracing.

You should have built hangers/holders for J-bolts like i did, plus put in more kickers/ angle bracing. ;)

guitardad72 wrote:

Today I had a different inspector who was more concerned complaining about zig zag driving to get to his inspections for the day then the inspection it self... he barely looked and signed off for a pass.

That's just saaaaad!!! :evil: Mine have been much more interested in what I'm doing. I wouldn't exactly say they've scrutinized, but they most certainly exhibit more professionalism and attention to detail than the people you've described!

guitardad72 wrote:

Bottom line this turned out well. I'm sure I got a good footer and glad I made the decision to pour a new footer rather than build on edge of existing slab. Inspiration to pour new footer came from Sharward . . .

It's always a pleasure to help someone part with their money. ;-) But seriously... I'm glad I inspired you, and I'm very glad you're pleased with the outcome!! 8) Bottom line: You did the right thing and you'll sleep well! --Keith :mrgreen:

Just pulled forms, did some digging to cut away plastic and took some pics. 1st two pics of the footer/slab. Notice how the edge does not look great. This is because James helper did not cut plastic far enough down into forms, result a bad edge. James is coming back today to try and repair/make a nice edge with straight portland & sand. Beets me if it'll work. The joint between old and new. James advice is edge the new concrete so it won't chip. Fill the crack with epoxy stuff or urethane caulk. On the patio side where this joint will be exposed it's going to get epoxy based (mixed ) concrete paint and he said the crack will barely be noticeable. Under the hardwood for of studio crack will be cover in self leveling concrete (i think) The forms from the CB cavities: I'm pretty happy with this, it's going to be buried behind inner leaf so looks don't matter. The only thing I forgot was to bang forms on this side. I got a small pocket to fill with foam (or something) at the top. This side turned out better as I did bang on the form and I was able to spoon concrete in to the very top completely filling the cavity. And the removed wall, exposed cavity blocks. I did not completely fill the entire section as I may grind the higher side down a bit and will be using the self leveling concrete which will stick much better to concrete in this area. Next job is tear down old screen wall header/pony wall. That's after Jame's work today and after I fill the trench in beside footer with sand that I just wheel barrel to the back of my property to dig out footer :roll: Marc

Ooooooooh, bummer about that exposed edge... :( In my case, we didn't extend the plastic up and over the forms like that. My plastic was either cut or folded over at the edges of the forms. Of course, my edges aren't visible, so it doesn't matter... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

My budget started out around $3,000. After making the decision to tear down CB wall I realized I'd be spending atleast $6,000. Look at where I am at with recent pics and here is to the penny what I've spent so far. Numbers & details are exported out of quicken Format Date Amount, minus sign=money spent (-100.00), nothing= a returned item (100.00) -Purchase description, ?? or blank = can't remember forgot to Memo -Place of purchase Sorry I couldn's post in a chart format so every line is clumped together. I've got everything subtotaled for my own thinking and I'll attempt to describe each. Some items could go in another catorgory but anal as I may seem, I'm to lazy to subdivide any further then the follwing. Why there are quotes around some things I have no idea and to lazy to delete. Patio-Studio = name of my entire catogory for project spending 08/30/2006 -58.92 ?? ? SUBTOTAL Patio-Studio -58.92 Build-Storage = money spent on just building to code my storage room to put studio in. 10/21/2006 -26.93 "J Bolts & 3"" washers Lowes 08/16/2006 -233.2 Exterior Door Lowes 08/27/2006 -129.53 Drywall & drywall screws Home Depot 08/28/2006 -32.37 "Drywall Mud, Backer Rod +" Lowes 09/02/2006 -2.11 Metal Corner Home Depot 09/04/2006 -5.22 ?? Home Depot 08/15/2006 -200 CB Wall Removal The Hulk 08/15/2006 -20 Empty Trailor Labor Helper 08/16/2006 -400 CB wall removal The Hulk 08/20/2006 -104.15 "2x4's, Nails" Home Depot 08/24/2006 -153.91 12-3 Wire & electric Home Depot 08/24/2006 -72.09 "2x4's, tapcons, rc13" Home Depot 08/27/2006 151.28 return Nails & 12-3 cable OOPs Home Depot 09/03/2006 -3.15 Blue Tape Home Depot SUBTOTAL Build-Storage "-1,231.38" Footer 10/19/2006 -24.83 Clear Plastic Lowes 10/25/2006 -840 "Labor, Pump Truck & Tremite Treatment" JG Concrete 10/23/2006 -26.22 Concrete Adhesive & 2-20' #5 rebar Lowes 10/18/2006 -182.65 "Rebar, Epoxy." Lowes 10/19/2006 88.98 Return wrong epoxy & plastic Lowes 10/24/2006 -375 Concrete Rinker Materials 10/24/2006 -25 Tip. Concrete JG Concrete TOTAL Footer "-1,384.72" TOTAL Build-Storage "-2,616.10" (this number includes footer) Build-Studio = money I've spent so far that I would not have spent if I was only building a regular non iso room. 08/28/2006 -202.53 12- 30 oz with S&H Green Glue Company 08/28/2006 -108.42 24 30oz acoustic caulk with S&H Contractor Tool Supplies 08/28/2006 -49.76 Backer Rod with S&H "Schroader Log Home Supplies, INc" 09/02/2006 -93.14 "6- 4x8, 5/8"" Drywall & 2 1/2"" Drywall Screws" Home Depot 09/25/2006 -83.74 250' of 12-2 Wire Home Depot 09/11/2006 -14.23 Drywall Mud Home Depot TOTAL Build-Studio -551.82 Garage Remodel I include this just cause I would not have spent this if I was not destroying part of garage. 09/18/2006 -38.78 "2x4's, molding, simpson plates" Home Depot 09/18/2006 -78.82 "paint, primer, mixer tool" Home Depot 09/20/2006 -251.02 "Fur Strips, 3 drawer & 2 door cabinets, hardware" Lowes 09/25/2006 -271.48 "Electrical, Big Storage Cabinet, Worktop, PLUS" Lowes 09/25/2006 -103.34 "Haning Track Rail & Hangers , Electrical Stuff" Home Depot 10/02/2006 -79.59 Track Hooks Home Depot 10/03/2006 -16.9 Track Hooks Home Depot 09/19/2006 -10.6 2 x 10' 2x4's East Coast Lumber 09/22/2006 -5.26 "Peglocks, caster" Home Depot 09/27/2006 -14.98 "Tapcons, Light Switch COver" Home Depot TOTAL Garage Remodel -870.77 Pre Cost Money spent basically before I got my hands dirty on actual work for studio room. 02/04/2006 -400 Architect 50% Deposit Lenny 03/15/2006 -28.57 Attic Door Supplies Lowes 03/16/2006 -1.54 Attic door handle Walmart 03/16/2006 -18.53 "Attic Door-trim, fur, nails" Home Depot 03/20/2006 -9.52 Lowes 04/15/2006 -5.29 Stoccu Repair Home Depot 05/05/2006 "-2,300.00" Electric Panel Move/Upgarde Brevard Electric 03/23/2006 -30.38 Rod's Book Amazon 04/03/2006 -104.63 Ceiling Fan for Patio Home Depot 04/04/2006 -39.36 Wire 4 Ceiling Fan and extra Lowes 02/24/2006 -400 Architect 50% Final Lenny 06/27/2006 -218.5 Permit Building Department 01/07/2006 -19.04 Book on Additions Lowes SUBTOTAL Pre Cost "-3,575.36" Sprinkler Relocate 02/10/2006 -37.69 Srinkler Rebuild Home Depot 02/16/2006 -37.02 Srinkler Rebuild Home Depot 02/23/2006 -0.83 Sprinkler Parts Lowes 02/28/2006 -35.48 Sprinkler parts Home Depot 02/10/2006 -20.03 Sprinkler Rebuild Lowes TOTAL Sprinkler Relocate -131.05 TOTAL Pre Cost "-3,706.41" Rentals 08/15/2006 -31.75 Trailer Rental U-Haul 09/05/2006 -60 Trailer Rental U-Haul 09/05/2006 39.91 Trailer Rental actual cost ($20.09) U-Haul 09/03/2006 -115.14 Concrete Saw & Blade Home Depot TOTAL Rentals -166.98 Supplies my "other catogory" 05/18/2006 -6.28 Caulk Lowes 08/14/2006 -43.21 PLastic & Pencils Home Depot 08/21/2006 -8.1 ?? Home Depot TOTAL Supplies -57.59 Tools I may not have bought other wise (but will get use of after this project, hopefully). Some of these tools may beloing in another catogory besides studio but oh well. 03/06/2006 -4.74 t bevel Home Depot 03/16/2006 -10.57 Spade Bit Set Walmart 05/18/2006 -10.58 Lowes 06/01/2006 -104.8 jigsaw & clamps Home Depot 08/14/2006 -31.75 Trailer Hitch U-Haul 10/19/2006 -8.41 Concrete Chisel Lowes 03/24/2006 -16.[removed] Cutter & Saw Blades Walmart 04/04/2006 -21.18 Wire Crimper Lowes 02/28/2006 -17.87 Knee Pads Home Depot 08/27/2006 -21.13 "Chalk Line, Drywall drill adapter" Home Depot 08/28/2006 -17.96 "Drywall Square, Knife Blades" Lowes 08/31/2006 -30.05 "Caulk Gun, Rags, Spline Roller 4 Backer Rod" Lowes 09/04/2006 -62.54 "4 1/2"" grinder" Home Depot -16.39 Grinder Blades 09/11/2006 -13.27 Corner Drywall Tools Home Depot 09/12/2006 -17.99 Pole Sander Home Depot 01/21/2006 -52.99 Decibel Meter Radio Shack 08/15/2006 -14 Trailer Adapter U-Haul 08/20/2006 -51.16 sledge & other stuff Home Depot 08/21/2006 -21.13 "Plastic Sheet, Pencils" Home Depot 08/24/2006 -6.85 ?? Home Depot 08/28/2006 -5.29 stubby screwdriver Home Depot 09/11/2006 -3.14 Grinder Adapter Home Depot 09/15/2006 -15.56 "Longer Pole, DRill Paint Mixer, Wood Fill" Walmart SUBTOTAL Tools -575.51 Safety (Tools/equipment) 02/12/2006 -26.47 steel toe boots Walmart 02/23/2006 -64.06 Resporator & extra cartridges Lowes 09/15/2006 -7.71 Safety Glasses & Dust Mask Walmart TOTAL Safety -98.24 TOTAL Tools -673.75 OVERALL TOTAL $8,702.34 spent as of Oct 25, 06 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :twisted: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :twisted: 8) 8) 8) :roll: :evil: :twisted: :shock: :D :shock: :x :P :twisted: :roll: :wink: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Obviously I have mixed emotions on the subject of how much money I've spent. Marc

I got some work/destruction done today. :twisted: Got some STUCCO concerns as a result :idea: … But 1st pics of removing the Pony Wall. 1st Task of the day was put 8 wheel barrel loads of sand back in beside new footer. :roll: Then I got out some pieces of ¾” ply (expensive hurricane wood for windows) and put them down so I’d have a level surface for ladder and to help keep debris out of sand which will eventually be a garden area again. I removed most of the stucco and lath from the patio side of Pony Wall. I drilled holes in each upper corner from the inside of pony wall. Used holes to mark a chalk line so that I could make a straight cut with 4 ½” grinder into stucco and only remove stucco that I wanted to. 8) Removing stucco was pretty easy :D Although I did crack some stucco above my cut line :oops: BUT I still need to cut some more stucco away so this is OK. At this point I did not want to make the cut any higher until I remove header of pony wall and I do not want to cut into truss behind stucco. BUT I’m not sure how much stucco I’m going to remove yet… see below. This made a good mess on my new concrete footer :wink: Pulling the Pony Wall header out was PITA X10. Getting a pry spot was not easy. I lost my new crow bar during garage remodel and have not bought another yet. This header was in two pieces. Once I got the shorter peice out I used a 2x4 as a pry and broke very little stucco getting the 18’ long or so 2x4 pony wall header out. This is a shot looking straight up at a point very close to where corner of the 2 new exterior walls will be. I managed to tear too much stucco on part of the patio ceiling off, but I’m really thinking I’m going to tear all this stucco on ceiling which will be in new studio room; this section of stucco ceiling will be within the room. Another angle of above. Now for my concerns: The “as was” (before today) pony wall construction: The plan for new wall is something like: The Simpson ST2115 strap looks like: Actual drawing of plan which I got permit for… remember Lenny drew this: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I think that’s enough info to make this painfully obvious. I’m going to have to remove more stucco to install ST 2115 (code for hurricane shear walls). Matching the depth of stucco on new wall with depth of existing stucco above on gable end truss is not going to be easy... Guess I should remove ALL stucco from gable end truss above new wall and install sheathing and other material to overhang at top of wall. Then I’ll have to match/blend new stucco to existing with a vertical seam point hopefully on an existing 2x4 brace (that was installed just to hold stucco) stable enough to support existing stucco. Lets call this option 1 partial gable end stucco removal. A shot from inside attic showing the 2x4 stucco braces: However, I could remove ALL the stucco from the entire gable end truss and install ½” OSB or ply and all other material and new stucco. Then I’d be left with a horizontal seam of new to old stucco, over the existing CB wall with stucco portion of this wall, at other end. The CB wall goes from, patio about another 14’ to back corner of house, to the left of most pics in this post. Let’s call this option 2, entire gable end stucco removal. I like option #1 partial remove because it will be less work & material. Option # 2 entire removal has benefits. -This entire gable end is only about 1” thick of stucco and lath, is not to current code. If I remove all this I could add some Simpson Straps to existing truss bracing, add sheathing and then this entire wall with have close to current code shear strength. -I think the seam from old to new stucco will look better as there is a larger area to work the old and new together. -This additional cost in materials would not be that significant. I’M not sure about this because I’ve never done stucco before so HELP PLEASE, ALL OPINIONS WELCOME, especially if you have stucco experience. JUST ONE MORE TOPIC: :twisted: The ceiling on the old garage portion of my room is ½” drywall attached directly to truss. The patio side is obviously fur strips, green board and stucco, which I’m pretty sure I am going to remove. I can’t think of an easy way to seal that air tight to new walls. Even though I’d only gain 1” of ceiling, I want it because I’m working down from 100”, will have a 2x6 decoupled inner leaf ceiling and will raise the floor with leveling concrete cement and hardwood flooring. IF I take down the stucco (pretty sure I will) then I may as well take down the ½” drywall too and put up what I want equivilant of which is 2 layers of 5/8” drywall with Green Glue between. While truss and attic is exposed this will give me some pleasant access to attic for wiring, and I’ll now exactly how air tight my outer leaf ceiling will be. Same thing, I think enough info is in above pics about ceiling. OPINIONS are welcome on removing ceiling stucco. I really want to get past this destruction phase and start building. I’m not going to get back to work out there until at least on Monday Oct 30, hopefully some of our expert forum members will have time to review, give advice, guidance or blessing. Marc

I just got off the phone with Peter Architect/Engineer and he said I could put the ST2115 over 1/2" sheathing into studs. See pic. I think this will work. Still looking for blessing or advice on subject Marc

Hmmm, good thing I had 2 gigs today, no time for demo work. I could think about how I'm going to cut stucco. Got another idea. Some what like Rod describes on page 43 in his book, fig 4.3 cutting middle of an existing slab with rebar to make a new footer: only cutting out the concrete not the rebar, then temp bending the rebar up out of way to dig out new foundation with out breaking rebar or remaining concrete, then bending rebar back into new footer... I think I'm going to try to... Carefully make my a cut into stucco just above bottom chord of existing truss. Not cut in so far to damage the wire mesh/lath. Break away the stucco CAREFULLY and then bend existing lath up out of way. Attach all new framing. Bend old lath back down to meet and overlap new lath (proper lath install is overlapped) so that I have the best connection between old and new stucco. Plus use concrete bonding agent in seam between old and new stucco. I've already been kind of doing this on this inside corner of patio ceiling, the part where new smaller patio will be. I've been able clear all stucco, little pieces at a time using a flat had screw driver, out of existing corner bead lath which previously attached corner of patio ceiling to removed pony wall. A new 2x8 header will go in on new smaller patio and it will be covered in stucco. The corner stuff is small diamond shape lath. The lath I'm going to try and bend out and then back in is about 1" grid lath and should be easier to knock stucco out of. Sharward... you following my thought pattern (excess wording) with all this? Depending I may get some work done tomorrow on this. BUT I've been avoiding the finishing work on baby's room so that I can paint. Just got some putty around trim, then paint. But wife still can't pick between 10 shades of pink and I'm color blind. 8) BTW, wife only has 3 days left at work and baby C-section schedule just got bumped to Nov 20th (from 21st). That's 23 days :D Marc

Yeah, I follow, and that seems like a good plan :-) Of course, I've never done any work with stucco... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

I guess I'll be alright with my Stucco. If I screw it up I'll just break more off and patch it. Should be fun. Tomorrow I'm all revved to take down more stucco and final prep existing structure for new exterior frame walls. I should be able to cut/chip stucco in 3 areas, clean the mess up and make a trip to HD to by lumber. I'll be lucky if I get the top, top plates up tomorrow. Most of frame should be up by Tuesday. The only thing that might hold me back for inspection is an issue I have with a wood to concrete hanger I have on my plan for new screen wall header. Lenny picked a hanger that I can not find for sale anywhere, and wouldn't fit correctly or easily if I could find it. There are substitute hangers I can use, just got to verify. Below is my current design plan of constructed walls. I had to draw it out to figure out door placement. I've turned myself around since last design I posted (I think). I'll deal with acoustics later, obviously I'll need them. Getting this far with design I am confirming my decision to not got with slot resonators as side walls, I'm just splaying. Reason for no slot's... I don't want to go with inside out walls for fear of loss of isolation, don't want the slot walls negative 3 leaf effect, if I were to add slots on regular walls I would loose to much square footage in the room trying to get the deep end of slot cavity 1' deep. Plan is for some rigid panels on splayed side walls. I'm still at least a month away (or more) from building the inner leaf frame walls... so maybe I'll change my mind, doubt it though. Marc

By far today was the most fun so far working on my room :D 1st task: The end of my CB wall used to have the end of pony wall attached at top. This is where a new end wall stud will go. The stucco was uneven from removing pony wall. I had 1/2" difference from stucco finish coat (below) to the base coat stucco which end stud of pony wall was attached over to CB wall: I decided to remove all stucco below (and base coat at top) so I would have a some what even surface to fasten my end stud to CB wall. It is pretty even/flat now. PLEASE NOTE this is now something I wish I would have not done. Rather would have filled uneven space with something... though I don't know exactly what. This took at least an hour maybe 2 using 4 1/2" grinder, chisel and hammer. (NOTE, left arm holding chisel wears out quicker then right arm with hammer) 2nd task: is what turned into pure fun :twisted: Had to make the cut across patio ceiling (stucco and green board) and leave enough room to attach top, top plate of new wall. Just before cut: Then I made the cut and cut off some more ceiling for the other wall: Compared to chipping stucco of a CB wall this was quick and fun so: *** The furring strips. I only cut away furring strips between the last two trusses so I can frame walls. Plan is to remove furring strips and attach new 5/8" drywall x2 with green glue directly to bottom chord of truss BUT before I remove furring strips I will be putting 2x4 bracing (& blocking) in between bottom chords of truss. If any one wants to make a recommendation as to how far apart I should space the braces (before I do the research) feel free. Then I removed the 2x4 support/brace/block that furring strips were attached to. With out the pony was this 2x4 was almost free floating. Then, I removed stucco from exterior side of bottom chord, gable end truss. This method is what I was and am still concerned about for fear of breaking to much stucco. Have to wait and see when I done framing and hammering in nails all over the place to see how much existing stucco I actually crack. In the left of the next pic I removed little stucco as possible just above bottom edge of bottom chord as the only thing have to do is slide a new header in place. To the right I need the entire bottom chord of truss exposed for new wall. Reason for zig zag cut pattern is that in directions I've read about patching old and new stucco, straight cuts/joints form cracks easier. Sorry can't remember (to lazy to find again) link for reference. There is not a lot of info out there in patching stucco in this manner. SO far this stucco cutting is working like I want it to. Also notice how my new smaller patio ceiling is sagging in above pic. I did not realize how bad till I removed stucco one exterior... the green board got pulled down from furring strips a bit. The 2x4 brace/block is not attached very well to anything. The whole edge of cut ceiling maybe sags 1/2" from where it was. When I insert the new header under this part, I'll will jack the ceiling up with a 2x4 "T". This will get the ceiling back into place securely, how ever how much stucco I break off ceiling is another issue. I think can see one good size crack forming, but it's not cracked to the surface. The other not fun thing today was cleaning up the mess. Not to my surprise I found some more weird stuff with Lenny's plan/drawing for my exterior walls. They way they attached to an existing truss. I've got to address this with Lenny or Peter before I go any further. If anyone wants to figure out the puzzle, what's wrong in the plan... look at today's pics and then look at "Wall Section" of my plan posted on Friday Oct 27 along with a bunch of other demo pics, on page 21 of me thread And with that thought, once again I feel like a Dumb A :oops: Marc

Nice work, bud! 8) Very productive day I see! :) When I inserted 2x4 blocks between my trusses, I placed them about 16" o.c. That's because I wanted them above the hat channel that was already there and already placed 16" o.c. That ceiling is kind of worrying me... Maybe you could frame up that "T" so it doesn't look so... dangerous? :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Got my lumber, Simpson straps, slightly altered plan, fasteners, etc... Missing one hanger, have to order it. How much wall I can build in the next 4 hours I don't know, but will post pics. Sharward,

That ceiling is kind of worrying me... Maybe you could frame up that "T" so it doesn't look so... dangerous?

Pics can be deceiving, I took that pic at the best possible angle to show sag... the ceiling is in no danger of falling down. It's still fastened 90% to other truss members. Stucco is in danger of cracking and there is not much I can to about that now. This bracing would not be like yours for perpendicular members to fasten top plates of wall to. Bracing (maybe over kill) is to prevent bottom chords of truss shifting/warping once I take the furring strips out, which should be currently preventing movement. Marc

Happy Halloween (to those who celebrate it) Today’s work: Pic 1: Lumber purchased today. Pic 2: Straps and nails purchased today. Pic 3: Had to add 2x4 brace/blocks to help attach top, top plate of frame wall which will be set back ½” from truss above. Pic 4 & 5: Got the top, top plates of both exterior walls in. I had to jack up ceiling in 2 spots to get these in correctly. The 2nd truss in does not have any web members (shorter members that join the top and bottom chords). Last pic: This is taken from the 2nd truss bay at CB wall which all truss bear on. To the far left you can see gable end truss. To the right you can see 3rd and in the dark 4th truss all of which have web members. You can clearly see the 2nd truss with 2x6 top chords and 2x4 bottom chords or in this case they are more like rafters? The 2nd truss is 24” OC from 3rd truss. The 2nd truss is about 18” from gable truss. I can not add web members because the 2x6 top chords are not lined up vertically to 2x4 rafters AND I am not an engineer. 8) Bright thought of the day: With out the web members on this 2nd truss, no wonder my ceiling is sagging. The construction is the same across entire patio. I knew there were no web members but did not think much of it till now. :oops: New wall perpendicular to rafters (not bottom chord) and the new double 2x8 header under but not hanging from gable end truss will hold ceiling back in place. There will be no uplift because there are no web members. In the end I will have less weight hanging from my truss system then what was previously there. Just thought I’d mention this truss thing incase anyone has a comment. NOTE this is the 2nd time I’ve written this post, feel like I missed details. Oh well. Ask if you’re concerned. Marc

I see you decided to hook that ceiling fan up again! 8) Lookin' good, Marc. Keep it up!! (The ceiling, too! ;-)) --Keith :mrgreen:

I see you decided to hook that ceiling fan up again!

I never unhooked it. :twisted:

Lookin' good, Marc. Keep it up!! (The ceiling, too! )

Ceiling stucco now has a good crack right behind that top peice of "T" 2x4. This was unwanted although expected... BUT this is the only unwanted stucco crack (I've noticed) so far. And this missed detail, those 2x4 braces/blocks will serve no purpose once all the straps are on that wall. Marc

Small update, got part of one exterior wall framed, not done so no critique needed yet. I’ve been piecing this frame together over days of spare moments. See pic. Found out today a Simpson Hanger I need (a WNP28-2) has to be made and shipped from Texas. Lumber retailer says 2 weeks? I can not have framing inspection until I have the hanger and have installed new double 2x8 header which will goes above new patio screen enclosure (also this header is sort like a beam to hold up ceiling). Babble: Oh well, I imagine I can find plenty else to do in the mean time. Still got work on the baby’s room, maybe a day’s work but I’ve been putting it off. 17 days till baby. Hmmm thought just occurred… I wonder if I’m going to get complaints about being to loud constructing once baby arrives. Hmmm….. No I don’t want to think about that. Also, I just acquired more time on a weekly basis to work on room. I lost 3 regular gigs per week, these were expected to go down, just happened I got the news the day after my wife quit her job. One gig was a poolside thing and will start up in Feb again and the other was 2 nights at a venue soon to be torn down. Oh well, I’ve picked up the slack already with other lesser paying jobs and Xmas is coming. Now hears a questionrelated to how a wall assembly should drain. Since I did not follow Steve’s advice :oops: and have my concrete guy add bracing to my forms for footer (because concrete guy thought it was fine) the edge of my concrete foundation is ½” past out from where I wanted it to be. :cry: Add in the room I allowed for ½” OSB and 5/4” stucco (thinking new and existing walls should be even) and the edge of concrete is 2 ¼” (or so) out from the bottom plate. :roll: In reviewing wall assembly drainage docs (I read before and forgot this) bottom plates of wall should be right on the edge of concrete so that sheathing can over lap the concrete. I can only think of 2 corrections for this. 1. As suggested by a stucco guy, use flashing for a drainage path (if I understand what flashing is supposed to do) and make the stucco a little thicker near bottom edge of wall to hide the concrete sticking out. 2. I cut my newly poured concrete so that I can overlap the sheathing to concrete. Guess I’ll have to draw pics… see below This may be me being to anal again. :twisted: I really don’t want to cut my new concrete, plus there are J-bolts for the bottom plate in the way of using a large concrete saw (that I would have to rent). If I would do this I would prefer to use my 4 ½” grinder with diamond tip cut off blade (BTW this is currently my favorite tool) AND it will not be fun. Worthy of some thought even if not “correct thinking” this part of house rarely gets wet because of 2 foot over-hang of roof. Only the bottom portion of this wall will get a little wet when it rains. This observation is from me sitting in patio in the rain. Also the stucco will get painted. That’s it, comments welcome on my over sight. :oops: Marc