Marc's Patio & Garage Studio

I'd go with the flashing, concrete is a bitch to cut like that, if it's even doable. Repeat after me; Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY, Concrete is HEAVY,........ :? BTW, that was spoken from experience, so don't feel like the lone ranger... Steve

Finally I got a visual feel for room :D :D :D :D I got my 1st exterior wall tipped into place. I managed to get it in only breaking off some of the sill seal I stapled to the bottom of bottom plate. I slided/sledged the bottom plate. I’m still not done with that wall. QUESTION or OPINION: The 2nd exterior wall, I’m wondering whether to tip in place or toe-nail in the studs. For this wall I already have J-bolts in cement, want to put sill seal under the bottom plate and have to attach the straps from bottom plate to stud. The straps are “U” shaped (They are Simpson SPZ4); you can see them in pic on other wall. I will build the wall ¼” short for expansion of wall and gable end truss above. I think I'm going tip the wall into place. Maybe I’ll make the holes in bottom plate a bit bigger then 1/2", I will use min 2” square washers to go under nuts which would make up for a larger hole in bottom plate… then tenderly sledge hammer the top plate into place. Babble: Bought a new circular saw today, I go a Rigid R3200 for about $120. It’s built much better then my Skill circular saw which has become a PITA: depth gauge has not worked for a while; in fact it’s now dangerously loose causing the base to freely flop up & down AND now the spindle lock is stripped meaning I can not get the blade off, can’t change blades. This skill saw was $60…. Anyone want it? AND still working on the baby's room. Got that wall tipped in while waiting for pink paint to dry... Every project I take on, takes more time then I think it will :roll: Marc

I'd toe-nail 'em. The 1/4" clearance would have been fine if you didn't have those J-bolts to lift over... :roll: ...I used 1" holes for my 5/8" J-bolts, and there still wasn't much clearance. You might be able to do what I did on my outer leaf framing -- end nail the studs to the top plates, but then tip the wall into place on top of the soleplate and then toenail the studs to the soleplate. You can even use a 1x4 or a 2x4 as a temporary brace attached to the face of the studs near the bottom to keep the studs from flopping around when tipping and toe-nailing. --Keith :mrgreen:

HMMMMMM Thanks Keith, sounds like it that could work. I've got days to think about this. For tipping the whole thing... angle won't be that hard coming down onto J-Bolts. I can lift the wall up on the exterior side with no existing ceiling in the way. Then onto J bolts at a slight angle... hopefully put it down and then tenderly sledge the top plate in the final 3 1/2" under top,top plate. Only thing is if I try to tip in and fail, taking the wall apart with all those straps on the bottom plate to studs will be fun. Marc

Try this "best of both worlds" approach, Marc: Do like I described, but only toenail the first and last studs to the soleplate. Then, try to tip the wall out. If you can do so fairly easily, remove it and end-nail the rrmaining studs. If not, stop, turn around, face west, yell "Thank you, Sharward!" as loud as you can (I'll be listening ;-)), turn back around, then finish toe-nailing the rest of the studs. :-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Hey Marc! I'm always a fan of your "babble." But I learned a new word today and I think you should use it instead! Call it persiflage! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

Try this "best of both worlds" approach, Marc: Do like I described, but only toenail the first and last studs to the soleplate. Then, try to tip the wall out. If you can do so fairly easily, remove it and end-nail the rrmaining studs. If not, stop, turn around, face west, yell "Thank you, Sharward!" as loud as you can (I'll be listening ;-)), turn back around, then finish toe-nailing the rest of the studs. :-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Another - "best of all possible worlds"n approach would be to attach all the studs to the top plate assembly- drop the bottom plate over the anchor bolts - and then stand up to assembly with the studs floating- tap into place - and then you only have to toe nail the bottoms to the baseplate. It's not as hard as it might seem.

Sharward, Persiflage, um good word but to hard to pronounce and I think few will get the meaning. BABBLE: Baby's room done. New carpet, paint, ceiling fan w dimmed lighting, new closet system, new closet doors and baby stuff in the room. Just got to go through garage storage area and find the rest of baby stuff we've stored. Tomorrow I should have some time for framing, that is if I get past fixing... I screwed up my door frame. After preliminary search for fix I have not found one. Problem: Patio slab is out of level, even though patio is entirely under roof it was built with this pitch to allow water to drain away from house. The width of my rough opening for exterior door is 32" and in that 32" the slab drops 3/4" with a small rise in the middle of 1/8" to 1/4" For this wall assembly I knew I'd have longer studs at one end of wall so I put bottom and top plates in place, measured for each stud and cut leaving 1/4" clearance from truss for expansion. This is where I stopped thinking about the pitch of slab. Studs are perfect. Nervous about the door in the first place I measured more than 5 times... cut my jack studs and assembled my double 2x8 header for a perfect rough opening of a square door frame... forgot to include the fact that concrete is not level, did not realize it would be 3/4" out. I already have the door, tried to place it in frame and it don't fit. Even my header has the 3/4" drop cause I cut the jack studs for rough opening height. LUCKILY the hinges of door are on the high side, so once I figure this out it should not affect swinging open the door. I've not completely attached this wall to floor and ceiling, currently it's anchor bolts holding one end stud in and some clamps on the top plates. This is to my advantage as I know now, I've got to take it apart. What I've yet to figure out is how OR what material I should use on floor to make the concrete level for door. Maybe self leveling concrete? I can't imagine using a "shim" made from PT lumber. I've done some searching, have not found a remedy yet, feel embarrassed (at least this time its my own fault) and have to continue search for answer, regardless. Feel free to suggest something. And yes Sharward... if I would have gone the whole way with replacing slab I would not have this problem now. Marc

OK, OK, I won't say I told you so. :-) So, assuming you fix your header level and at the correct height on the side closest to the house, you'll have a parallelogram for an opening -- two right angles at the top, level and plumb, but the bottom will be slanted towards the side yard. Am I understanding this correctly? If so... I actually think your best bet under the circumstances is exactly what you said -- a wedge-shaped piece of pressure-treated lumber bolted or "Tapconned" to the concrete, on which you would attach a door threshold of your choice. You might be able to use a standard aluminum entry door type of threshold... Although I think those are hollow on the bottom, so perhaps you can fill it in with something really dense (such as drywall joint compound? :roll:) so that it doesn't become a weak link in your isolation. Since you'll be redoing your door framing, consider bumping up the size of that opening. Only 32" rough? That's for a 30" door I presume? :? I would think you'd want no smaller than a 32" door (34" rough opening). In my room I'll be using two 36" doors. You may not think you need that much width all the time, but remember that you'll have some pretty intricate and possibly delicate seals on the door frame, so I would think you'd appreciate the elbow room. Yeah, you lose some usable floor space from the wider arc... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

So, assuming you fix your header level and at the correct height on the side closest to the house, you'll have a parallelogram for an opening -- two right angles at the top, level and plumb, but the bottom will be slanted towards the side yard. Am I understanding this correctly?

Yup you got it except currently the side of header that needs to be raised is the side further away from house. I've got a prehung exterior door with threshold (& casing). Threshold is aluminum and has a large void underneath, plan is to fill best I can. I did not have much choice for the door as it has to meet code for Hurricane wind sheer, it was the most cost effective option, solid wood entry doors meeting Florida wind sheer code are REALLY expensive AND I could not build my own. This exterior, outer leaf door will be weak link in isolation, this is part of over all plan. For the inner leaf door I plan to beef it up, don't exactly know how yet as I have not made the purchase. "Rough opening"... My doors measurement is called 2'8" or 32", which I've presumed, could not verify after an hour of searching that this is the rough opening measurement. The actual width of frame is 31 3/8", I went with 32" rough opening from reading info on net stating add 1/2" to actual prehung door width/ there should be 1/8" space between casing and wall frame. It made the most sense. Plus looking at Rod's book pg 94 and 96, suggestion is for compressed rockwool with caulk and backer rod between wall frame and door casing IN what looks like a 1/4" space. What ever insulating material and CAULK I can stuff in there AFTER my final inspection of "storage room" is the plan. Again this door I know will be my weak link, just got to deal and live with it. Also I would presume if I make the rough opening wider then it's suppose to be for iso purposes, then the door casing would not be attached "per manufactures directions" to "meet code for wind sheer". I had to submit manufactures architectural drawing/specs of door with permit application. Do I think one of my local inspectors would notice a wider opening? Who knows... BUT the point is, in this case "code and wind sheer" over rides the importance of sound isolation. Also just found this from Lowes.com

Assure that the rough opening is plumb and that the sub-sill (the floor under which the door sill will rest) is level. Level the sub-sill if necessary by using a beveled board or shims. A spacer board may be necessary if the door must clear an unusually high floor surface such as very thick carpet.

Sub-sill = new word for me. So yes Sharward you're idea should/could work. PT wedge shaped lumber. But with this new word, "sub-sill" I got more searching to do. Also I have to keep in mind the fact that I will be using a large amount of self leveling concrete in the room... after final inspection. Boy gee whiz I wish I could have convinced architects to let me cut and pour new concrete for at least the patio side of my room, instead of just footer (this was a point of argument, could not convince Peter). I think I paid for that much concrete for footer anyways.. used 1.6 yards out of the 3 yard min I paid for. The PITA's things are starting to add up about the floor. I think I'm going to build the other wall 1st, this way my corner for stability will be done... then take jack studs & header out of wall with door frame. THEN make this wedge which I'm going to presume will take a few tries to get right. Then reasemble header and jack studs, getting measurements with the door sitting in place ontop of wedge. This really sounds like fun now. :roll: Marc

Got some work done today. I did not take any pics as it does not look like much. :oops: I decided to start framing up my other exterior wall before fixing my door rough opening. I decided to toe-nail studs in on this wall. I got the bottom plate and the 2nd top plate in place. The bottom plate took for ever; J-bolts set by my clever concrete contractor were not all straight vertically or in a straight line, requiring a careful measurement for ½” holes in bottom plate and then use of jigsaw to expand holes. Luckily my 2” square washers allow for a bigger hole. (3” square washers I previously bought will not work, the hole in them is too big for nut). PLUS I barely had room to get a bite with the nuts, he sunk some J-bolts to deep and I could not use the sill seal, had to take it out to get nuts on. Still two of the J-bolts were useless and I had to drill holes for anchor bolts. In the end this would have been easier using anchor bolts alone. Had to go buy the 2” square washers today and while at lumber store, they helped me out with a method of leveling my sub sill for door. I am also going to raise the high side of the door sill by half an inch so that I have lot’s of clearance when the door swings fully open (past 90 degrees open the slab angles upward) I got a PT 2x6. They ripped the 2x6 on there table saw to the depth of my door sill which is 4 5/8”. There suggestion is to cut this PT lumber with miter saw into small pieces varying from ½ to 1 ¼”, then butt them all together, jig saw puzzle like till I have a level door sub sill. This sounds like the easier method, although I don’t like idea of having many separate pieces of wood make up the sub sill. Reason for not making one big wedge board is because lumber staff could not figure out a way make a 32” long cut through a 4 5/8” depth at an angle… they did not have a saw to make that cut in one pass, nor do I. If you found that confusing then… I have a piece of PT lumber, it’s now a 4 5/8” (wide) x 1 ½” (high). If I attempt to make a one piece wedge then I will cut the length to 32”. Then I need to cut through 4 5/8” to make the wedge go from 1 ¼” to ½” high. I can’t think of a way to cut this besides maybe make a cut on each side of lumber carefully with circular saw (mine has max depth as 2 ¼”)… then use hand saw to finish cut, AND then use hand saw, chisel and sand paper to flatten to perfect wedge (like) shape for my sub sill, while constantly checking to see if it will make sub sill level. COMPLETE PITA considering the blocking & clamping I should use to line up the cuts. I realize few of us on the forum could make a suggestion for above wedge cutting, there for I hope and do not expect a response, however if you got an idea I’d love to hear it. Marc

I read that description of the puzzle piece plan, and while I do understand the challenge, I do not understand the proposed solution, although I must say some parts of the description are really bugging me. So, at the risk of dismissing that which I do not understand (something that I really dislike in others ;-)), I have another, I think simpler option for you to consider. Make a "header-like" threshold holderuppper:

• Get a 2x4 or a 2x6 piece of pressure treated lumber.
• Rip it so that its width is equal to the maximum abount of "boost" you need on the threshold at what will be its highest point.
• Cut it to a little longer than the length of your rough opening along the unlevel floor.
• Lay it on the floor on edge and mark the ends along the jack studs.
• Use a miter saw not on the 90° angle to trim it down to fit snugly between the studs.
• Once this first piece is fitted properly, use it as a template to make two or three more just like it.
• Nail them all together with galvanized nails to form a solid wedge-shaped header-like thing.
• Lay down SillSeal foam and toenail to jack studs with galvanized nails.

I'm much more comfortable with this plan because the threshold will rest on and be attached to a stout object, not a patchwork of smal pieces. Not bad for typing on a Treo, eh? ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Should I draw a diagram Sharward? BTW the suggestion you gave would have pieces cut perpendicular to the puzzle method, of many pieces each cut slight higher then the next.

Rip it so that its width is equal to the maximum amount of "boost" you need on the threshold at what will be its highest point.

That would run into the same problem as I described cutting a one piece wedge board. What saw am I going to use to rip a 2x6 and cut all the way across the 5.5" deep side... I was thinking along the same lines as you today Keith... running a couple boards for the width of the door (32") seems like a much better idea than using main pieces of wood that are 4 5/8" long, 1 1/2" wide and from 1/2" to 1 1/4" high. However realizing the difficulty in cutting through anything deeper than 2 1/2"... I am thinking to use some PT 2x2. Still though I think I should attempt the one piece wedge... I'll make diagram(s) if need. Marc

Are you asking how you can rip a 2x6 at an angle? I agree that might be a little trick without a table saw... But you might be able to do it by screwing the uripped piece to an existing, longer 2x6 that is clamped to a couple of sawhorses, with the piece to be cut on the bottom, attached in such a way that the triangular portion to be removed is visible from the top. You can then use a circular saw to cut it. A strip of OSB or plywood attached to the "holder" 2x6 would work as a "fence" or guide for the saw I'm thinking along the lines of how I managed to rip 4x8 sheets of OSB without a table saw... --Keith :mrgreen:

Aloha Marc, Congrats on your upcoming addition to the family and studio progress. Here's a possible solution to:

Rip it so that its width is equal to the maximum amount of "boost" you need on the threshold at what will be its highest point.

in lieu of a table saw. http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetail ... did=561174 "Bring the accuracy of a panel saw to any site with the TS 55 saw and guide rail system. This combination provides straight, splinter-free cuts on both sides of the blade right out of the box. Unlike conventional pendulum-cover circular saws, Festool’s design allows the saw blade to retract into the housing giving you the option to start and end the cut accurately anywhere on the material. All of this innovation means a quicker, safer and more cost-effective precision tool. The dust extraction port ensures less dust and a clear view of the workpiece. Saw close to edges, cut apertures and false joints, and cut to length. For solid wood, fine veneered panels and sheet goods of all kinds, plastic, and aluminum." They also offer a bigger version here: http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetail ... did=561188 A little pricey, yes. Fast, repeatable accuracy...yes! I wish I had known about this when I started my project. Hope this helps, be safe. Aloha 8)

Kendale,

Congrats on your upcoming addition to the family and studio progress.

Thanks and glad to hear you are making it through earthquake aftermath PITA stuff. Nice SAW!!!!! BUT it still won’t make the cut I desire for a one piece sub-sill or as Sharward is calling it a threshold holderuppper. I’m sure it will cut through 1 ½” deep or even 2” just fine and straight but for now I can’t warrant spending $430 on a saw, which I can get equivalent straight cuts with my New Rigid R3200 circular saw with edge guide OR using a guide method as Sharward showed in his last post. I want to cut through 4 5/8” to get a one piece sub-sill or I’ve got to choose another method. I’ll explain, got drawings this time to pulverize the topic of how I should cut this one damn piece of lumber. BUT FIRST: 1st pic below is uncompleted other exterior wall I am working on. Yup, decided to toe nail in. I got 3 studs in so far and I am getting quicker, still would have preferred to tip in but J-bolts were for sure going to make this not easy. I decided against the “best of both worlds approach because with one of the 3 walls I’ve already built I remember moving/flipping a frame with all studs attached to ONE plate only, so that I’d have a more comfortable nailing position. With studs attached to only one plate they were really floppy, I had to pound them back in from the side without a plate. I even think a stud fell out, even though I had 3 nails at the correct angles. The weight of the 8’ 2x4 was stronger then 2” of nail in a sheer fashion. I could only imagine moving that frame wall with studs flopping around all by myself… even though Sharward mentioned a temp brace, I decided to try toe nailing (also for learning experience) And guess what… if I have a choice I don’t want to do it again. :roll: OK back to the door sub sill. 2nd pic, the actual door frame as is. 3rd pic, a cross sectional of my actual pre-hung door sill 4th pic, One Piece CUSTOM sub sill drawing. I like this the best because it will support every part of door sill. I do not have to attach this, door sill will be tap conned into slab through my new sub-sill (regardless of how I make it) I’ll just need the pre drill holes so I don’t split this thin piece of lumber (plus got to drill into concrete anyways). BUT making the cut through 4 5/8” still seems PITA, unless I find a willing helper with a ban saw who is skilled at using the band saw. 5th pic, the method guy at lumber store has suggested: Jig Saw puzzle. Many pieces all cut between ½” to 1 ¼” HIGH. This will support door, but I think it’s to many pieces. 6th pic, Threshold holderupper (header-like by Sharward)… Sharward, nailing a piece of lumber ½” thick without it splitting I don’t think will work, pre drill and or Liquid nails. The difficult part is still going to be ripping the lumber from ½” to 1 ¼”. The only other thing I worry about with this method is looking at the cross section of my door sill how the sill supports is. Obviously the main support is the small piece of lumber wedged inside there but I would not want one of the 3 metal sections which touch the sub-sill to line up with a joint of two pieces of lumber in the Threshold holderupper sub-sill. SO, I am going to attempt the one piece. :twisted: If I can't get it then OH well try the next idea. Sorry to bore anyone with all this, I need to think this one out as I am very experienced at screwing things up. Marc :twisted:

Need to find someone with one of these - cut a narrow spacer board with the profile you need, temporarily glue/tack it to your threshold board at 90 degrees, put the angled spacer against the fence, and run your threshold thru the blade (I use 3/4" wide blade for this) - you might luck out and find a friendly cabinet shop with one - even a smaller 12" bandsaw should be able to cut 6" tall wood into thinner "lumber" if you go slow... Steve

Nice drawings, Marc. :-) If you decide on the Sharward version, I agree that Liquid Nails is the winner.

Marc, To support the threshold evenly and completely without the use of a saw, screw a 2x4 w/ the 3.5" side vertical, to each side to create a form and fill the space to the required specification with grout. If you want to be really anal, :wink: use non-shrink grout. You will have a solid, level, termite and rot-free threshold support.

Sandersd, HEY, nice to see you back. Thought you had left us for good :D :D :D :D :D :D

fill the space to the required specification with grout

Ooh, another option. :shock: Would I also have to cut those 2x4 forms to the proper angle so that I could screed the top of grout level both for width and depth of grout/subsill area. Grout could be poured to 1/2" (or less) thick and not crack unlike regular concrete. Hmmm... guess so... grout is used between concrete blocks in walls. BUT... the 2x6 I had ripped down to 4 5/8" (X 1 1/2" X 32") is on it's way to Kennedy Space Center (where my father in law works) to be cut via band saw. I carefully measured (twice) marked the lumber sub sill. Hopefully someone who helps send people and man made things into space will be capable of not screwing this up. 8) Sandersd, back on Feb 16, 06 you wrote:

Now you have to strip it off 'cause I gotta' know what's inside...

On page 16 & 21 of this thread there are pics of this "pony wall" (2x4 frame all around) coming down. It was also built in such a way to support blocking to support furring strips to hand ceiling from. The blocking was attached only to pony wall not end gable truss... now my ceiling is sagging. :oops: Progress: Today (and spare moments over past few days) I've been working on exterior framing. So far I've got the toe nailed in frame almost done. I'll take pics and post later. Right now I'm taking a break from framing to fix part of babys crib. Marc

Would I also have to cut those 2x4 forms to the proper angle so that I could screed the top of grout level both for width and depth of grout/subsill area.

No, unless you want to. Otherwise just float it to the proper level (with a concrete float or trowel). It doesn't have to be perfect since you'll want to place it in a bed of goopity-goo to seal it. Another common practice is called dry packing. Shim and install the door. Once it's attached at the sides, remove the shims under the threshold. You'll be left with a gap, 1/2" or so. Mix the grout with very little water, it should be dry and crumbly, with just enough water to hold together when it's packed tightly. Now push it under the threshold until it's full and pack it tightly with a piece of scrap wood or something. It'll fill the entire underside of the threshold without any voids. Remember, the less water you use the stronger the grout (or concrete) will be.

Grout could be poured to 1/2" (or less) thick and not crack unlike regular concrete. Hmmm... guess so... grout is used between concrete blocks in walls.

And under the baseplates of steel columns, equipment foundations, etc,.

Progress Pics. The PT lumber custom cut sub sill came back today, see pics. Still have to remove some wood from the middle bottom portion of lumber to account for hump in concrete. I'll use my circular saw with depth set to 1/16" and run it back and forth. I only got a little more work done to exterior PITA toe nail in wall. Only thing left is the last 2x4 of the wall which will make a jack stud for patio screen wall double 2x8 header AND I need to strap the tops of all studs (and top plates) to gable truss above. Also my hanger came in today for other end of the patio screen wall Header. This means I have access to all components of my exterior framing and the only thing holding my inspection back is ME and my pace of work. I'm hoping I can call for an inspection on Friday. I got Tue and Wed open to work on fixing my F'd up door frame. I don't have to make a decision on actual sub-sill construction for inspection. Just have to have door frame correct. :roll: Marc

Excellent work on the threshold holderupper! ;-) 8) Nice! So, is it my imagination, or is there there a stud missing from the corner of your frame? :roll: Also, in my world, one need only nail studs that meet at corners every 24" with a maximum of 6" from the top and bottom. Maybe your world is different, hence the extra nails...? --Keith :mrgreen:

Excellent work on the threshold holderupper!

Well, thank the Kennedy Space Center carpenters and our tax dollars that pay his wages :D

So, is it my imagination, or is there there a stud missing from the corner of your frame?

NOPE: Last Post I wrote:

Only thing left is the last 2x4 of the wall which will make a jack stud for patio screen wall double 2x8 header

That's the stud that's not there yet, that corner will have two studs and one jack stud on one wall all tied together, plus the end stud of other wall.

Also, in my world, one need only nail studs that meet at corners every 24" with a maximum of 6" from the top and bottom. Maybe your world is different, hence the extra nails...?

Yup in hurricane world, a wall that meets 125mph wind burst for 3 secs gets all posts (double studs & jack studs) with nails every 6". See connection schedule attached. SP6 is for 2x6 walls. I am using SPZ4 for 2x4 walls and have to make use 12-10d nails each strap cause there are more holes than in the SP4 which are hard to find. I still have to put more brace/blocking in too "all shear wall sections require blocking of all edges" meaning every joint of my OSB sheathing. Sheathing will go up to 102", meaning I'll have to put another set of blocks in about 6" OC above those in pic. Now hear is something about this connector schedule that's been bothering me cause I can't figure it out, can't find internet explanation with pic and I've forgot to ask Peter or Lenny what it means as I've had more important things to chat with them about. "Simpson LSTA24 (a 24" long straight strap) with 18-10d nails diagonally across ends of header from top plates to posts at each end" This has got to confuse somebody else besides me, but since I don't enjoy talking with Peter or Lenny, if anyone wants to attempt to explain this statement to me feel free. I'm going to ask at the lumber yard tomorrow before I call Peter. Marc

Now, you did use pressure treated lumber for the threshold, didn't you?