Marc's Patio & Garage Studio

Eh Sideshow, Aaron has been helping me out posting over in Installation and Wiring: [url=http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7201]Coaxil cable, air handler interference... [/url] I think I've almost figured it out, just got to re-route the 12gauge, 120V AC wire behind air handler (again) to away from air handler and this should correct problem. Thanks for posting that article, very interesting though I fully admit I'm tired right now, and it will still take 2 or 3 more read throughs before that info sinks in. :roll:

How did the 3.5 hour trip for a 10 minute gig go? Were you Neil? Which tunes did you do?

:D Wow, I'm on page 19 of this thread and that's the 1st time somebody mentioned Neil 8) For those who have not clicked there way to my website, one of the things I do for a living is Impersonate Neil Diamond. How did it go: With these gigs, especially out of town, I charge per word I sing. :twisted: Birthday girl was completely surprised. :shock: There were about 50 women, no men at the party. 8) I sang Sweet Caroline (can not skip that one) , a medley of Neil songs which the daughter re-route words to tell life story of mother, Happy B-day and an encore with America. Plus 10 Min's of meet & greet for pics. A short gig is EASY for me. I can't run out of good in between song material, compared to dragging out an hour Neil performance OR a regular 4 hour gig. Did I mention B-day girl was 60 and all her friends were about the same age. I performed for 50 grandma's, and I'm glad my ass did not get grabbed today... this happens when somebody's grandma has had to much to drink, I consider it a problem. Re-write of song/medley was all an inside joke which I did not get, I've arranged a lot of medleys... try asking a singer to start a song half way through on a stop with re written words. Better yet try arranging or Beat Mixing short parts of 12 songs together, all different tempos, not starting slow and working towards the fast tempo, no coherence of Key signatures... and do a good job of it. BUT this did bring the mom to tears. I'm was not a Neil fan previously, the whole impersonation thing is an accident for me, I'm an entertainer, I got started with Neil on a Day Casino Cruise ship real close to me, it's snow balled and this is a unique way of making money. Now I'd only say I admire Neil, truly disappointed he's not more of a guitar player or songs are not more guitar orientated. Gee Whiz, I did find something else to babble about beside building a studio room. BTW, Let's see how Sharward responds to this: Previously I posted about a friend of mine here in Florida building a studio the same way as I, as far as permits go... he's got a permit for a storage room, after final inspection he's putting in studio. I worked with him yesterday... his inspector knows exactly what he is doing, he does not have final inspection yet but is already building solid concrete wall between CR and live, his inspector is fine with it. He's even putting Air-con in the rooms that is not in plan before his final inspection. PLUS more. The comment I get over and over again is that inspectors in at least Central Florida only really care about the exterior and structure. CRAZY And to end my babbling for the night... Florida is one of only 2 states that does not require bikers (motorcyclists) to where helmets. There lot's of out to lunch rules in this state. :twisted: Marc

OK got it 8) But ...How do you charge for Soo, soolaimon Soolai, soolai, soolaimon Is that 1 word or 5?? :? Yeah I am sure you are an Ace guitarist and I can understand your frustration with being "Neil" from a guitarists perspective - I think the lesson is there for anyone wishing to write hit songs (most of the time) - simplicity is best - I suppose. :roll: My wife and I do a top 40 duo thing most weekends (approx 12 a month + weekday jobs 2 hours away in Sydney+ our own originals thing called SideShow Annie - one act usually ends up paying for the other... :wink: http://www.sideshowannie.com The last album recording budget ate away much of our marketing $ so we want to record at home now...this time with real drums :twisted: Apologies all - back to the main topic...building the studio :wink: The re routing should fix it - fingers crossed... :D Eliot

UPDATE for my project :D I now only have 2 weeks left till my wife stops working and my son will stop going to baby sitter during week days. I've decided to clear as money "day time" gigs as I can over the next two weeks to get "work towards studio" done. This is not the best financial decision but oh well I've made worse decisions. Today I dug 16 wheel barrel loads of dirt (sand) today starting the "trench" for my footer. 8) Good news - Bad news - not sure what to think news... I called architect/engineer Peter today to clarify "clean, termite treated, compact fill". In my case (Florida) this fill means soil with clay in it, I can't just compact the existing sand under where footer will be. :cry: The good of this: - I know what to do now. - I’ve dug down to the footings which my house walls sit on. The concrete blocks below grade are like a stem wall. At the top of 1st two rows of block (14" from footing ) the house slab starts. I can see a different soil, presumably a clay soil under and around footings AND this is good because it’s supposed to be there. The Bad/not sure what to think - Getting and placing the clay soil under new footer is not going to be fun. - There is no clay soil under patio slab that I plan to use, it’s just sand. I could guess/presume garage slab may be the same. - Additionally there is no 6 MIL Polyethylene Vapor Barrier under Patio slab. New footer and 1 foot of new slab requires vapor barrier for current code. I don’t know if it wasn’t code 42 years ago to use vapor barrier under a slab, this was built as a patio… my guess is no vapor barrier under the garage slab either. Still guessing I don’t think (well hope) this will affect my project to much as long as I make sure my concrete is sealed on the surface side? Other stuff: Baby’s room is not complete yet. I have down time on that project as I am waiting for carpet to be installed on Thursday. When purchasing carpet, I got directions from the flooring store on installing engineered hardwood floors: make sure concrete is sealed/painted and then glue engineered hardwood directly to concrete (laminate is a different process). BUT the sales person who gave me advice turned out to be a musician/producer and has “soundproofed” a room in his house. After telling me how I should build my room and as he described the building methods and materials he used in his project, I spent ½ an hour or so explaining a few things to him. Also note he described some really, really bizarre recording methods which would drive me nuts trying to mix. I don’t know if I’ll trust this guy’s direction on how to install engineered hardwood floor. I told the flooring salesman to come to this web site and buy Rod's Book. :D I could have gotten a lot more of the new footer prepped today, however I only had to cut 3 holes in an exterior wall to find a leaky drain pipe. A neighbor with same house as I previously had this problem and helped out. AND of course one trip to HD was not good enough, turns out I got to redo every pipe under the kitchen sink, a PITA. Chances are I got some mold under my cabinets that will eventually dry up, hopefully (mold would be currently contained under cabinets, probably not completely safely contained) BUT I am planning a kitchen remodel after studio is done. Then we can use my current studio/office space for a temporary kitchen. Really I got no choice, I don’t want to start destroying part of the cabinets to confirm if I got mold or not until I’m ready to completely rip them out. Hopefully the sink drain will be running again by tomorrow morning and I’ll get some more digging done, maybe get some clay soil fill and or start working on forms. Marc

How I hate spending money on hiring someone to do something, I would probably feel comfortable with doing myself, after I've watched someone else do it. :twisted: I got most of my trench dug for footer. See pic below. BUT adding up the cost of renting and/or buying more tools and knowing that on the day of pour I'm going to need a helper has me thinking: Why not just hire a helper who knows how to pour and finish concrete, why don't I be the helper instead. Plus, I don't want to chance screwing up pouring and finishing the concrete. I started calling for estimates today from concrete contractors. Hopefully they'll show up within the next day or two like they say they will for an estimate. Interesting find in 2nd pic: a coffee cup from 1962-64 which has the words "Litterbug" on it (More words I could not make out I presume imply don't litter). I found this in cavity of my concrete block wall behind kitchen sink while cutting out to find leaky pipe. If anybody decides to fill a concrete block wall, to avoid triple leaf like I plan too, be aware, the guys who built your house may have thrown there lunch waste down in there, trying not to litter. :roll: Marc

Dang it! :x I’ve now learned not to completely trust architect/engineer Peter either. I think I’ll stop calling him when I got questions, or atleast if I do ask him I won't post his answer hear so that I don't have to retract later. :? I had 2 concrete contractors come by today. WOW they actually showed up, not on time but they were here. Both had basic same plan for pouring my footer, just waiting on written quote from both. What Peter was wrong about is the fill. Both contractors today stated they had no idea where I could even get clean clay soil for a fill. They just compact while wetting the sand found everywhere here in Florida, my sand is clean, this is what everyone else does and pass inspections. Both said use a hand tamper, I was going to rent an electric or gas tamper. Form should be made from 2x6 or 2x8 with 2x4 steaks. I’ve dug the hole a little too deep and that’s OK it’ll be bigger then I need. It’s a little wider then I need and that’s good on the slab side of the footer. On the outside both said just throw some sand against the concrete as pouring, some concrete will leak out. If I were to use plywood forms like I was thinking it would be much harder to get them out. I got a 3 yard min of concrete to buy and my footer should take about 2 yards even with my over digging. (20 wheel barrels worth) I’ll have my exposed concrete wall cavities formed up to throw concrete in and can put concrete in footer of old CB wall on the day of pour. One of these guys owns a pump truck the other would rent/sub one. I had planned on wheel barreling the cement from street… both of these concrete guys said it’s more cost effective, cleaner and I’ll get better results with pump truck. Both guys gave me the same list of stuff to buy... it was kind of weird actually, hearing them both say the same thing with different words. Both even said to go to Lowes for the rebar as 20’ # 5 is cheaper there. And to Lowes I went today buying the rebar, rebar chairs, 6 mil plastic, 2 part epoxy etc… and other stuff to continue or finish working on other parts of house. I’ve got 3 projects on the go right now. Kinda of nice when I get bored of one I move back to another. Can’t wait to see the quotes and compare to the cost of materials and what tools I would have bought/rented… some of which would have been unnecessary. Maybe the pour will happen next week Marc

Hey Marc, I actually tried to post on your thread yesterday, but I lost it when I submitted, and I had no time to retype everything. Yeah, I would think hand-tamping is the way to go on that. As far as your plan to have a pro be the boss and you be the helper, that's exactly what I did on the day of my main pour. I got quite a workout running that wheelbarrow between the concrete truck and up the driveway and to the back of my garage! :shock: I came pretty close a couple of times to dumping the concrete all over the driveway... :roll: ...after which the truck driver started giving me smaller loads! :lol: And that was five yards we schlepped! FYI, the form boards I used were 1 1/4" x 12" x 16' and made of wood product that resembled OSB. They were extremely flat and straight. I got mine from an equipment rental yard... In the wife's rented Saturn -- remember? :P Stakes? Use steel stakes, preferably round ones. They drive into the ground much easier, won't split, they're much easier to remove, and they won't break on you while doing so!! Remember: broken wooden stakes in ground = termite appetizers. :shock: #5 rebar, eh? That's 5/8" thick. I'm surprised it has to be that thick... :roll: ...But, whatever's in the drawing, go with that. You make a great point about trash being thrown into concrete block walls while under construction, as a warning to those hoping to fill their concrete block walls with concrete or sand after the fact! (That cup probably said "Don't be a litterbug.") Hey Marc -- regarding that pipe repair... Is that area highly visible? If it's not, you may wish to consider fashioning an access panel on the surface of that wall, rather than trying to fill it with concrete or attempt a patch... Maybe a good quality piece of wood, liberally painted on both sides and all edges, with anchors and screws or something holding it firmly into place, and of course a liberal bead of silicone caulk for a nice seal. I'm just thinking that if, perish the thought, one ever needed to gain access to that area again, it would be a heck of a lot easier and less destructive next time. So... No "Hulk" this time? :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Marc: Ooops, for a second there I thought I was looking at a dusting of snow near your trench -- but just as quickly, I realized you are in Fla... I might have it out of context, but what I don't understand is why would you want clay in your soil? From what I'm led to believe, clay is not a very forgiving soil. When it gets wet, it expands and holds the water; when it dries, it gets crusty, shrinks and cracks. The expansion/contraction cycles supposedly wreak havoc on concrete foundations -- making them more prone to cracking and moving... As I think I understand it, the expansion (when wet) exerts enormous force on concrete walls, maybe causing them to crack; when the soil is dry, it pulls away from the concrete, and would then allow movement of the concrete (sinking, tilting, etc.). Of course, clay appears to be used as a waterproofing aid in certain situations for below ground concrete (e.g., the bentonite stuff), but I still don't think you'd want the entire surrounding soil to be clay. The 'ideal' soil -- if there could be any -- would seem of the sort that easily drains, but yet doesn't erode, AND can provide great support. Sandy, rocky soils over bedrock or (maybe ledge?) or lots of riprap or larger sized rocks, would seem to be good for concrete... But what do I know? Maybe TomVan, or someone else in-the-know can help dispell or confirm... As for the 'lunch debris' in between walls: I think it's one of those 'kilroy was here' graffiti-artifact things; or kinda like leaving your mark -- a time capsule as it were, lol. K

Eh Sharward,

I came pretty close a couple of times to dumping the concrete all over the driveway...

Years ago I worked for 3 months with a concrete contractor. I was on the wheel barrel a lot. One time I was so tired from running the wheel barrel to a 2nd story concrete balcony, behind the house through a horrible path way, that I told the cement truck driver to give me half wheel barrel loads. I couldn’t make the full load, driver gave kept giving me full loads, so I (was young and reckless) felt the need to dump half the concrete out at the drivers foot to convince him to stop giving me full loads :twisted:

form boards I used were 1 1/4" x 12" x 16' and made of wood product that resembled OSB

That’s what I thought to use to, but in this situation guys who actually pour concrete for a living say 2x6.

Stakes? Use steel stakes, preferably round ones.

I’m repeating what these guys told me… unless I was misunderstanding them. If a body of water was next to my property, all I would have to do is remove top layer of grass and I’d have a beach. Maybe sand has something to do with this. The pipe: It lasted for 40 years “as was” with copper (I think) pipe. I replaced with PVC. It should not fail again for what you think, another 40 years or much more. There is a clean out located below this section of pipe. Thanks for the suggestion but I’m just going to patch it. It’s not facing the street but it is right in front of the play set I built.

So... No "Hulk" this time?

The Hulk can not be found… plus he pissed me off for reasons I’m not going to post about. Luftweg, I basically thought same as you (but with less thinking) about clay soil. I did some research and found a few statements that “virgin clay” or clean clay is alright to pour on. However in my case the sand will do just fine according to 2 concrete contractors. BTW the machine tamper and clay soil idea both came from Peter. AND as I write this got quotes from both concrete guys. The guy who owns pump truck (James) total $1,250.00 Break Down of the $1,250: Concrete, 3 yard min: $375 Pump Truck Charge: $250 Termite treatment: $125 (Terminix was $150, I save a whole $25) Labor: $500. The concrete guy who would sub out pump truck was $1,500.00, he charged more for everything except the concrete and appeared to round up to the next $100. I’ve already called James and he’ll be over today to start forming. Marc

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D See pics of uncompleted forms below. More steaks and kickers have to go in. He decided to use 2x4’s, cause that’s what he had in his truck. - Termite treatment scheduled for tomorrow. - After that James will return to complete form, lay plastic and put the rebar in. Unfortunately most likely I won’t be hear to watch rebar being put in. - Then we call for inspection which will be Monday. - There is already a concrete truck scheduled for Tuesday. :D - Just got to make sure over the weekend I form up those exposed cavities. Hiring James and questioning him has helped me figure out a few “why am a doing this?” answers. 8) 2x4 VS Steel stakes in the sand… 2x4 win. James said something like the thin metal steak is PITA and just does not hold as well in sand. 2x4 is bigger and thicker. I’ve driven a few 2x4 steaks and many 1x2 & 2x2 wood steaks around my property. None have broken in the ground so termite/bug thing should not be an issue. Plus if one does happen to break its easy digging to find. Why am I putting a footer across my entire patio slab when I’m converting half of patio it into my studio room where footer is obviously required and new smaller patio does not seem like it needs a footer?... New footer has to tie in at both ends to existing CB walls with footers, when doing an upgrade like this it has to have consistency & just in case someone decides to in close my new smaller patio in the future. Today I had to return the black 6 mil plastic vapor barrier I bought and got clear plastic. It’s better for inspector so that he can see through to inspect. :roll: Unlike Sharwards pour and inspection process (I think), my Termite treatment has to be done before inspection, I’ll get a sticker on my permit from Termite guy, without it I’d fail inspection. Other stuff/babble: Baby’s room got carpet today. Just have to install some door trim and ½” shoe trim (like ¼ round trim) next to floor board to hide edge of carpet then I’m ready to paint. BUT my wife wants to wait on the new bedding she ordered to arrive to pick the perfect shade of pink to match. :roll: BUT really this is great because the order got pushed back and won’t be hear till the end of next week. I’ll have nothing to do for 3 or 4 days except work on or work on the design/acoustics of my studio room. :twisted: :twisted: Tommorow (Friday) I got my regular poolside/waterpark afternoon gig, then I got tickets to see Eric Clapton with Robert Cray as opener. Really looking forward to seeing two great players and all those Strats. Marc

Looks great, Marc. 8) You're definitely on a roll! I can't wait to see concrete pics. :) I'm sure it's very satisfying to be moving on this again. Yeah, the termiticide application wasn't required by my city. I guess their reasoning was that it was taking place inside an already constructed building's footprint. If my build were more similar to yours, I think I'd probably have to have gone through the same hoops you are. I certainly would have if I were building a standalone structure. Marc, your soil and mine are like polar opposites. The 2x4 staking is probably a lot better in your case. It surely would not have worked in mine. My soil is dense, thick, sticky, extremely wet clay. My water table is mere inches from the surface. --Keith :mrgreen:

My experience with clear vs. black 6 mil is that the black (when exposed to sunlight) lasts several YEARS; clear lasts half a season before looking like it was run thru a shredder (no UV inhibitor) - personally, if any of this is to be exposed afterward I'd tell the inspector to get a flashlight :wink: although under a house the clear stuff is fine. Unless you're not finished with forms, looks to me like your angled braces are too steep (easier to push over with weight of concrete) and too far between. Agree that in sand, wider stakes are better than the round steel ones, no question. Since your power is already a done deal, it shoudn't be necessary to extend your rebar to surface for use as a ground electrode. Concrete on, man (woulda' said "rock on", but that funny powder and water between the rocks is necessary in this case :lol: )... Steve

knightfly wrote:

. . . looks to me like your angled braces are too steep (easier to push over with weight of concrete) and too far between.

Marc did mention that he needs to set more stakes... But yes, I agree -- closer to a 45 degree is advised. --Keith :mrgreen:

If anybody reads this before tomorrow when James concrete guy comes back, I’m looking for opinion. Did he place the rebar, other things I’m about to babble about and things I might miss correctly? Hears the plan (again) for easy comparison: Below are pictures of what he actually did. If I’m wrong it won’t be the 1st time… Shouldn’t I have “L” shape pieces of rebar (min 9” long past each bend) tying the rebar at bottom of slab to each other AND to dowel rebar (horizontal inserted into existing slab). Dowel rebar should be bent at 45 degrees which it’s not. This is how I read the plan. I was not here when he did this work and then he called in for inspection on Monday. I was only home for 15 mins today and immediately called him with the concern. At least we got the weekend to make sure it’s correct. Note he thinks he’s done and this will pass inspection as is.

Unless you're not finished with forms, looks to me like your angled braces are too steep (easier to push over with weight of concrete) and too far between.

Angled Braces (kickers), he did not add any, there are only the 2 shown in previous pic same angle, might not be able to see in below pic cause of plastic. Not more steaks either. I’ve done the kick test to the form and it bounces back into position, VERY sturdy but moves maybe 1/2" on the bounce :roll: I do plan to mention this to him. Plastic, none of this will be seen. I got to confirm tomorrow that he is planning to cut the extra plastic away on both sides and at what point of the pour. **** I’ve got nothing in the plan for material in between old and new concrete. Architect/engineer Peter says use 15 pound felt in between BUT do I trust him :oops: . Rods book, closest example says use concrete adhesive. Right now there is plastic there which hopefully James plans to cut away or tuck under old slab. I do not understand why he did not tuck it in under the old slab; if it’s not under there I won’t get the bit of under pouring I could have and maybe end up with a cavity below slab :cry: Plus he poked the dowel rebar through the plastic. Got to ask him whats up with that and correct. Also I still have to get my J bolts in place in this footer/slab AND get J-bolts in one of my walls. URH While I’m at it, would anybody like to poke a hole in this plan (pun intended)? Picture of wall cavity below and drawing of plan below. CB wall cavity filling while placing J bolts: 1. Place a 2x4 against the wall, temp hold with tapcons to concrete wall. This is where one of my exterior walls (wall with door to patio) end stud will be. 2. Drill holes through 2x4 and CB wall (left side in pic) just big enough for J bolts. 3. Slip J bolts through from open cavity side/middle of CB wall. 4. 2x4 is being used to hold J bolts in place 5. Cut a piece of plywood for a form and hold it in place attaching to the temp 2x4, maybe using some tapcons into existing concrete of wall and maybe use the existing 2x4 wall (with insulation) for further support, if needed. Point being do what it takes to secure the playwood form. 6. I’ll be leaving a 5” square hole at the top to insert hose with concrete, the last bit of concrete will be cupped or maybe even spoooooned in somehow. 7. Use trowel to hopefully jam last bit of concrete in top of cavity. 8. Repeat on the other exposed cavity I have except I don’t have to worry about J-bolts AND, Eric Clapton was GREAT... probably favorite concert I've ever been too. Marc

guitardad72 wrote:

If anybody reads this before tomorrow when James concrete guy comes back, I’m looking for opinion. Did he place the rebar, other things I’m about to babble about and things I might miss correctly?

Marc, The rebar is not completed. Look at section "B" - the bar is supposed to turn down into the body of the grade beam, there is also supposed to be an "L" shaped piece of rebar that covers over the top of the 2 #5's and crosses the down turned rebar coming from the existing slab. I don't see anything with the existing wall to judge by. Sincerely, Ro0d

Rod, Thanks, I was pretty sure this was wrong/not complete. Now I got a 2nd opinion from a real pro for when he comes back today. This gives me a perfect 4 out of 4, for major mistakes or uncompleted work requiring fixing/or more work to complete, for the sub-contractors I've hired to help me with this project. :D How this incomplete work is going to be fixed I don't know. $40 worth of 2 part epoxy has been used to place $10-$15 worth of rebar dowels into slab. Rebar looks like it's been cut to short to make the 45 degree angle down to meet the L shape rebar pieces. Only fix I can think of without drilling new holes & using more rebar dowels would be to maybe turn the L shape rebar around IF it can reach that way. That's presuming this heavy #5 rebar dowels can be bent in place without breaking existing slab.

I don't see anything with the existing wall to judge by.

Did I not explain filling the CB wall cavity while inserting the J-Bolts well enough? OR you just have nothing to compare to. I'll take pics of that work as I do it. Hopefully I'm bright enough to not screw it up. 8) Marc

I'm glad Rod had a chance to see this already -- he confirmed what I suspected -- that rebar work ain't complete! :evil: Assuming the contractor had the benefit of the drawings you posted here, there's really no excuse for that... :x Anyway, how long are those pieces that are sticking out of the old slab? If they're longer than 18", then I think (Rod? Confirm?) that you/he can tie another piece of #5 rebar to it in parallel. The new piece should be longer than the piece to which it is tied, long enough to extend to the other pieces to which it needs to be tied. In other words, rather than pull the rebar that's there, use another piece to bridge the gap and overlap what is there. That being said, bending those existing pieces down without breaking (at best) the epoxy or (at worst) chunks of the slab may be more trouble than it's worth... :roll: ...Maybe a pipe wrench to the rebar and a good twisting action will break the epoxy bond so that those pieces can be removed and longer, properly bent pieces can be reinstalled (after drilling excess cured epoxy out of the holes, of course)... :roll: #4 rebar is hard enough to bend -- #5 is even harder! :shock: My concrete contractor loaned me one of these do do my rebar bending... ...Rental yards should have these and they shouldn't be too expensive. You deserve better than this, Marc. :( Hang in there, bud! --Keith :mrgreen:

Oh, and regarding your plan to fill in those concrete blocks and set J-bolts -- that should work I think. However, rather than using TapCon screws to hold those blocks of wood, maybe you can get away with some Liquid Nails as a temporary bond. Then you can pry or knock them off afterwards. I'm just a bit concerned about your possibly causing damage to the blocks with all the TapConning... Whereas Liquid Nails may be more forgiving...? :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

WELL, James the concrete guy came, looked again and said this was done to the drawing, it'll pass inspection :shock: I pointed out the L section, the 45 degree angle dowel rebar is suppose to bend down and Rod's opinion (Qualifying Rod and stating that I trust Rod's opinion over any one else simply because Rod is the only one I know who is consistently correct, unless I missed something :wink: .) James said... maybe the L section is just part of the drawing (measurement) it's not part of the rebar, architect could be wrong and it's not necessary, pointed out this is the way he's done it previously and it's passed, bla, bla bla..... oh yes and the only part which makes sense, he said in the plan it states dowels are 18" long that's how he cut them, they would have to be longer to reach the L piece... The dowel rebar pieces stick out 18" to 20" from existing slab, he drilled out 6" deep holes, the dowel rebar total length (AS IS) is 24" to 27" long. I could not, did not have the verbal will power to convince him to correct this, SO hopefully my inspector on Monday will fail me OR give me a convincing reason to not correct or a very good "what the hell that L line in the B section is for. This is not something I'm going to wait for the inspector to notice, I will point it out to him. Sharward,

Anyway, how long are those pieces that are sticking out of the old slab? If they're longer than 18", then I think (Rod? Confirm?) that you/he can tie another piece of #5 rebar to it in parallel. The new piece should be longer than the piece to which it is tied, long enough to extend to the other pieces to which it needs to be tied. In other words, rather than pull the rebar that's there, use another piece to bridge the gap and overlap what is there.

Pieces are 18" to 20" out from existing slab. Plan states and code is: rebar overlap shall be 40 bar diameters.( 25" for #5 rebar) IF I do need the L shaped rebar, turning the "L" around from the plan is the only way out of this IF we are right and James is wrong... this also presuming my inspector that day is knowledgeable, on the ball and does not think like a typical Floridian construction worker.

Oh, and regarding your plan to fill in those concrete blocks and set J-bolts -- that should work I think. However, rather than using TapCon screws to hold those blocks of wood, maybe you can get away with some Liquid Nails as a temporary bond. Then you can pry or knock them off afterwards.

In this case I want to use Tapcon over liquid nails. I already have a stock pile of various size tapcons. When removing the 2x4 if the liquid nails has a good hold it might damage and pull to much stucco and paint off this CB wall. I already know exactly how much damage tapcons will cause and how to repair/fill the holes from experience. The holes will be behind the temp 2x4 or wall eventually. The reason I need a real good hold for the plywood form is according to James the concrete hose/pump has very little dynamics as to how much concrete comes out and could knock a loose form out of place. I'll be cupping the last bit of concrete in. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather stay with something I can predict the outcome from. I got my J-bolts today, but had to go to HD, then Ace Hardware and finally Lowe's to get them. Had my son with me so this took longer but he's a good counter and made sure I got the proper amount of washers and nuts... that combined with waiting for James and having to leave shortly for a gig (plus spending to much time typing) has left me no time for working on project today. :roll: Marc

Good luck, Marc. Part of me is hoping the inspector fails it, just on the basis that the contractor didn't follow the instructions. It's the principle. Yet, I totally understand your position.

Got some work done, so: Let’s call this post: Forms for filling two exposed CB wall cavities from cutting my CB wall. WHY am I doing this? 1. Although not in my permitted plan, code is for CB walls that the end cavity and corner cavities should be filled with concrete. -One of these cavities is a new end of CB wall. -The other was previously a 3 way corner or a “T” I cut one part of the “T” away and the remaining CB now is an “L” (but there is a new 2x4 wall making it a “T” again in another direction). The walls that make this corner are load bearing. 9” away from corner sits a girder truss which supports a 20’ wide section of trusses for my house roof. Why not try and beef up this corner which should have been filled. 2. Both these cavities unless filled will create a 3 leaf effect in a small parts of my outer leaf structure. 3. A CB wall filled with concrete by itself has a STC of 55, not sure of LF but positive this will exceed my goal of STC 65 with TL @ 50hz of -30dB. 4. To overkill secure my ½ diameter anchors that will hold a 2x4 wall stud (exterior wall) to the new end of CB wall. The wall with corner was easier to form: I used an old wooden shelf board that I just ripped out of a closet (the baby’s room), it was the perfect size. I used tapcons on the right side, drilling into good sections of the CB that remains. I used an overkill amount of deck screws to attach the right side to the 2x4 stud attached to the wall seen in above pic. I used a furring strip which also happened to be the right width to jam in between the 2x4 and the shelf board to make up for some inconsistent breaks in the CB wall… that edge was jagged, point was so that no concrete runs out. The one at the new end of CB wall was not as easy but it’s done. A shot looking down at the cavity: First I attached a temp 2x4 stud to wall via clamps. Then I drilled ½” holes all the way through stud and CB. Then I got out my 8” long 1/2'” diameter J bolts and could not get them through hole from cavity side, they were to long. Made another HD trip and found out they do not have 6” long ½” diameter J Bolts, so I decided to use widgets instead kinda making the hole point of getting the anchors in with the concrete pointless. I already had a box of 5 ½” long, ½” diameter Redheads (widgets) so I used them as these meets or exceed code for my wall. Then I secured the 2x4 temp stud to the wall with tapcons and some washers: The HUGE 3” square washers seen are overkill, I am required to use 2” square washers and Lowes only had the 3” when I was buying them. I used some scrap 2x4’s on side to make up distance between the temp stud and form boards. *** I’ve added 1 ½” to the width of my room on the patio side, this will be the rear of my room. Yup it’s not on plan, yup I'm just doing this (based on Lenny’s advice that inspector will not notice or if does notice, won’t care) becuase Lenny drew the damn wall in the wrong spot and I’ve settled with going this route.(redraw will increase room sqft PITA for permit) I could have gone more then 1 ½” but weighing the whole thing out I think this as much as I want to get away with. How far I set this wall back has been “open” for a long time now… with this measurement I can now finally design room knowing the outside leaf demissions. And the forms are some scrap ¾” plywood that were initial hurricane window coverings but have since been used on many projects around house. Now just got to pump (and cup) concrete into the holes I've left at the top of cavities, then trowel it in so it don't fall out. Marc :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

The rebar is not completed. Look at section "B" - the bar is supposed to turn down into the body of the grade beam, there is also supposed to be an "L" shaped piece of rebar that covers over the top of the 2 #5's and crosses the down turned rebar coming from the existing slab.

Good luck, Marc. Part of me is hoping the inspector fails it, just on the basis that the contractor didn't follow the instructions. It's the principle. Yet, I totally understand your position.

AND YES I FAILED INSPECTION!!! :D :D :D Am I a 1st for being happy about failing an inspection? Don't matter really. :roll: AND the inspector would have passed AS IS if I did not point this out to him. :shock: We even called Lenny to clarify his drawing. Everything is reset: James will complete rebar work today. Inspection is set for tomorrow. James has presumed inspection will take place in morning and bumped the concrete truck from 9am to 1pm. James also said to subtract the $45 re inspection fee from our agree price. Only uncomfortable part of inspection was talking with inspector our conversation moved to the point where he said "why are you going to all this trouble, this could be more simple" my reply "I'm a little anal at times" Regarding my last post with CB cavity form pics. I think I am going to pre cut and drill holes for small plywood forms to top off those cavities. Once the concrete is in the cavity I think gravity will have an effect, it'll want to come out the small not formed top section. I'll pack it in with trowel, keep an eye (or trowel) on it and once set enough I'll put the top off form in place. IF a pocket is left at the very top I can fill later.

The rebar is not completed. Look at section "B" - the bar is supposed to turn down into the body of the grade beam, there is also supposed to be an "L" shaped piece of rebar that covers over the top of the 2 #5's and crosses the down turned rebar coming from the existing slab.

Good luck, Marc. Part of me is hoping the inspector fails it, just on the basis that the contractor didn't follow the instructions. It's the principle. Yet, I totally understand your position.

AND YES I FAILED INSPECTION!!! :D :D :D Am I a 1st for being happy about failing an inspection? Don't matter really. :roll: AND the inspector would have passed AS IS if I did not point this out to him. :shock: We even called Lenny to clarify his drawing. Everything is reset: James will complete rebar work today. Inspection is set for tomorrow. James has presumed inspection will take place in morning and bumped the concrete truck from 9am to 1pm. James also said to subtract the $45 re inspection fee from our agree price. Only uncomfortable part of inspection was talking with inspector our conversation moved to the point where he said "why are you going to all this trouble, this could be more simple" my reply "I'm a little anal at times" Regarding my last post with CB cavity form pics. I think I am going to pre cut and drill holes for small plywood forms to top off those cavities. Once the concrete is in the cavity I think gravity will have an effect, it'll want to come out the small not formed top section. I'll pack it in with trowel, keep an eye (or trowel) on it and once set enough I'll put the top off form in place. IF a pocket is left at the very top I can fill later.

Oh yes and one more tiny issue... for the joint in between old slab and new footer/slab I've bought concrete adhesive made just for this purpose. The other option is 15 pound felt as suggested by engineer/architect (who's been wrong about other things) Since the concrete adhesive suggestion came from Rod's book, this is what I'm going with unless someone (by tomorrow) gives a good reason not too. Marc :twisted:

I like the closed cell foam on a roll they sell at Home Depot in the concrete supply section. It's about 4" tall I think, with a half inch perforated section that you can zip off after the concrete is set, leaving a 1/2" x 1/2" groove that you can fill in with caulk. Or, you can use it upside down and not zip off that piece. You can attach it to the old slab with Liquid Nails. I can't see how roofing felt would be good... It won't squish. The point of the foam is that it will compress a bit when the concrete expands. --Keith :mrgreen:

Sharward, Part of this joint of old and new concrete will be in my new smaller patio. A 1/2" strip of foam covered with caulk is not something I want to walk on or eventually try and paint with epoxy based concrete paint. In the end I want to try and make the joint unseen. Other part of joint in studio room, will be covered 1st with self leveling cement, then all the stuff for engineered hardwood floor. I might even put down a layer of 3/4" ply but will try to avoid that. So I think best bet is the glue. Even through James screwed up else where, his opinion for best result overall is the concrete adhesive. even through this is termite treated I want to do my best to make sure other little creatures have no way of crawling through the old/new joint. He came back today and finished off rebar work. See pic below. Don't look to pretty but it's all there. He struggled with getting a few pieces in cause... he did not start off planning to put these in and "the plan" calls for 18" dowels which did not allow everything to meet up. A few of the "L's" got turned around. PLUS he could have cut some of these L peices some more. OH well. If it passes great, I'm done thinking about this. I'll update post tomorrow as the work goes along BUT if the inspector is not here by 12pm then we call the concrete truck off & schedule for Wednesday. Maybe I'll get some pics with James in it and the "forum" may come up with a nickname similar to (wanna-be infamous) "Hulk". Marc