Marc's Patio & Garage Studio

One thing that I've been 'finding out' about slabs is that -- at least around here -- they can be more subjected to changes caused by the elements, than say, deep foundations (i.e., basements)... Also, take for instance a tree in the yard near the house... As the tree grows, the roots spread out past the drip line of the tree's canopy... If the tree gets big enough, these roots could go UNDER a slab -- and do all the time, just take a walk down a sidewalk on a street lined with large trees.. you'll see them pushing up the walkway, cracking and heaving it... This can't happen nearly as much in a basement because the tree roots don't go down that low, and would almost never make it under the deep footings... they don't want to go that low because all the nutrients and water from the rain is in the upper 'zone of aeration' above the water table... (taproots do go down, but these only form when the tree is young, and are only directly under the tree). What would happen is that growing horizontal roots would reach the concrete wall and discover that there was no way around the foundation... They could press on the walls, but the roots while still small would be more apt to push from and grow away/around the wall... Of course, this doesn't mean having roots along a basement wall is 'okay'; there are still water issues (e.g., surface runoff could follow the roots to the walls, then travel down then to the footing and enter the basement). Btw, Keith, Building Codes -- at least around here -- are dictated/enforced with much politics in mind... For instance, the plumber who lives on the next street over was the one who connected all the sumps from the houses here, to the sewage system... The town had sent out notices, town-wide, that inspections were to be made if there were existing drainage connections to the sewer system... I just found out that this plumber is with the Inspectional Services department for the town, as the chief plumbing inspector. (although, to be fair, he did tell us that we would have to disconnect the sump discharge). Codes and their enforcement are strange around here... it seems like variances are given 'on the fly' either by the board or via individual inspectors... (of course, these things usually are not of paramount structural or safety importance -- rather, they're things like room sizes, ceiling heights, etc., particularly in very old houses that have few easy options complying precisely)... K

sharward wrote:

... Why do buildings have structural slabs, if all they really need are structural footings around their perimeter and under load bearing walls? Wouldn't it maybe be cheaper to make the floors inside a house inferior, like garage slabs? :roll: The point I'm making is that garage floors are inferior to structural slabs, and the reason they are so because they're cheaper and the builders can get away with it. That's the name of the game, after all -- overbuilding = overcosting = less profit. Now, it is possible that the "inferiority" of your garage slab is acceptable for the walls you're building. But how do we know this? :roll:

Also, take for instance a tree in the yard near the house... As the tree grows, the roots spread out past the drip line of the tree's canopy... If the tree gets big enough, these roots could go UNDER a slab -- and do all the time, just take a walk down a sidewalk on a street lined with large trees.. you'll see them pushing up the walkway, cracking and heaving it... This can't happen nearly as much in a basement because the tree roots don't go down that low,

Recently I watched a TV show (and can't find a link to post for reference) where a $500,000 to $1,000,000 house right on the coast in California was over taken by ONE tree. The roots started in the back yard by pool (or something like that) and went around the entire perimeter of the house. I think the house had partial basement, the tree roots had cracked and come through foundation walls. The cost to fix the root problem was more then the value of the house... and many engineers were still baffled exactly how to fix the problem.

Codes and their enforcement are strange around here... it seems like variances are given 'on the fly' either by the board or via individual inspectors...

That is weird, when some one applies for a variance here they call for a town meeting. I just opened a letter from planning and zoning office (I was thinking... oh sht what's this in regards to my room but) one of my neighbors who is less then 200 ft from me wants a variance of 2.5ft from regular 5 ft setback from rear property line for a swimming pool... so they've called a town meeting of everyone with int 200 ft of that property. I attended a town meeting last year which was real fun... owner of vacant land directly behind my property wanted to put up 7 condos as tightly packed on the property as he could fit them. Over 200 people cramped into a small room, meeting started out orderly, they did a presentation, for a while folks took turns speaking from the "audience" but at points the crowd was out of control yelling, the property owner walked out of the meeting and proposal for condos got shot down. Planning and zoning wouldn't even except his application for variance to allow condos. AND back to my current issue... after sleeping on this for a day, thinking about all day even while at work gigging (performing on auto pilot) I'm thinking plan as is will work BUT still need to run this past someone else, hoping Rod will chime in soon. I don't have time to work on the footer or slab for a few days anyways. Going to work on garage side in mean time and I got lot's of gigs for weekend. Marc

guitardad72 wrote:

...That is weird, when some one applies for a variance here they call for a town meeting.... Marc

Actually, I didn't mean that there were not town meetings for variances, but usually only when it impacts neighbors/community or it's really significant... Such things as, say, wanting to have a slightly higher stair riser or short tread -- in order to fit in with some other existing construction -- are often just asked to the inspector, who might say 'sure'... Wow... that would have been a cool show to see with that tree that destroyed an expensive house's foundation... My friend, in forrestry, was where I got much of the tree root info... I'll have to ask, but I think there are other factors, perhaps such as sheer size of the tree, where it was when it was young, if the construction came after the tree, etc.. What show or channel was that? thanx, K

Marc, you may wanna PM Rod on this - otherwise he may miss it next time he visits (not that he's busy or anything :lol: ) Steve

Eh Steve, I'm taking it your not going to comment on the situation? I've PM'd Rod once and patiently waiting. I don't want to pester him as his advice I (we) value and respect. Adding some more peice of info about patio slab: All peices of slab I took from edge were 4" min thick, some of it was 5" and 6" thick... I can't confirm whether the rest is actaully this thick with out drilling BUT, I suspect it is 4" min all around. One of my previous pics shows some wire mesh, that is 6" squares of wire mesh all under slab, however that mesh I highly suspect is not attached to any wall. About the garage slab portion of studio.... this is the back portion of my 2 car garage which is 500 sq ft, most 2 car garges are 400 sq ft, IF the builder of my hosue would have skimped anywhere's for rebar in garage slab it could have been at the back.... half of the area in garage I'm building on would be "in the back". Marc

I'm not a heavy duty concrete guy, whereas Rod's been knee-deep in EVERY aspect of construction most of his life; If I were you, I'd rather hear from Rod than me :? However, just so he has something to argue against :lol: If it were me, I'd consider under-cutting your slab by at least 6", probably more, and outward of the slab by another foot, drilling into the slab horizontally and vertically every couple of feet (alternating), sticking 5/8" (#5) rebar into all the holes, filling voids between rebar and old slab with concrete epoxy, and then pouring a new footer alongside and UNDER your existing slab. I've yet to get time to read more than a few pages of Rod's book yet, but seems like he'd recommended similar approaches in some cases - something like this... Steve (But I'd still wait for Rod :? )

I like it -- other than the horizontal ties into the existing slab, that's pretty much what I've been advocating when I wasn't also throwing in my "maybe do the whole slab" two cents. But bear in mind, it's not so much the area along the new footing that Marc and I are concerned about -- it's the other areas of the room where he expects to have some very heavy walls (some of which will be supporting an very heavy ceiling) bolted to the unknown/questionable slab that's on our minds these days. In theory, he could do something very similar to the nice drawing you posted all around the perimeter of the room. But, if he's going to do that (here it comes!), then I would think he may as well redo the entire slab to a level that is considered "structural." ...Pretty much what I ended up doing. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

I have a question, if anyone might know this: Can an ENTIRE slab be made thick like a footing in order that it is strong enough for heavy wall construction anywhere on its surface? Or will this be so heavy that it would sink into the ground, lol? K

A little anecdote as a partial answer - several years ago I read an article about one of those ridiculously expensive homes the Hollywood stars used to build - don't remember who, but one of the 40's stars had built this place and liked to play tennis, so had his own full court built on the grounds. The younger star that bought the place (maybe 15 years ago or so) didn't care squat about tennis, so he decided to tear out the tennis court and replace it with a swimming pool - That pool cost several MILLION $, because star #1 was scared to death of earthquakes; the tennis court was a solid concrete monolith that was something like 14 feet thick, with enough steel in it to build a skyscraper :roll: - AFAIK, the tennis court stayed put and was in excellent condition til the pool replaced it - not sure whether the pool fared as well... :lol:

Sure. They're called "international airport runways." ;-) But seriously... At over $100 per cubic yard, I would think the primary reason not to do slabs like that is simply to save money. Note that the reason Marc's slab MAY not suffice isn't so much that it may not be thick enough... It's that there may be voids under it that might lead to its movement or breakage over time... Although it's probably fine, it's impossible to know for sure. It's especially important since there's one spot where he'll be building along its edge, --Keith :mrgreen:

This might be a long post… :twisted: Luftweg, I looked again for that TV show and could not find. My wife said it was most likely on TLC. There was a house infested with bats on the 1 hour episode as well. I think it was a “1 off” show and is not a regular program which is why I could not find it. :roll: Steve, Thanks for the drawing. :D I’m sure that would work however I already have a building department approved plan for footer and like Keith keeps saying the new footer I’m going to build is not the concern. It’s the edge of my existing patio slab where it meets but is not attached to existing concrete block wall and that walls footer. This is the same wall I’m planning on filling cavities with sand. I can't go out another foot, I have an exsting roof above this whole thing I am planning to use and as is I'm on my 8 foot set back from property line. I suggested under pouring to arctitects and the 3rd one (who I've not even mentioned) said to Peter that under pouring an entire footer would be impossible. Would an inspector let this pass? How could I be sure concrete would all get under there. This is why they went with below plan... they skipped on partial under pour which does make sense. BTW why I'm pouring a footer along my entire patio edge I have no idea when I only need one under new walls. So we all get on the same page at the end of this post I’m going to attempt to pull all info about the slab into one spot so we don’t have to sort through pages of this thread to get the picture. Hopefully this will be easier on Rod too. :D Keith, As always thank you for keeping the keen eye. :mrgreen: I had a conversation with my wife tonight. She is 7 months pregnant now, baby is due in 2 ½ months, the last week of November. Although not likely she could go into labor early, could even be this week who knows and I’ll repeat it’s not likely. I should be prepared right? Below is a picture of the baby’s room. Can you see the crib in the picture? It is there, full of guitar shipping boxes, behind the elliptical exercise machine. All that stuff (Xmas decorations, things I need to eBay off, old gear, wife’s school books, junk, etc…) belongs in the garage (or out of the house or in the garbage). As well here’s a pic of my front door/entrance. This is my PA & lights for bigger gigs, not my smaller solo rig. This stuff also belongs in garage. Progress: Today I got the last of the drywall up on garage side of only built walls (so far). In the USG drywall manual, they suggest using a homemade 2x4 “T” to help hold drywall up to ceiling, if you don’t have one of those fancy drywall lifters like the customized one I keep seeing floating around California. I do plan to rent a drywall lifter later, but today I had one piece of drywall 76” wide, 48” high, 3rd layer to put at the top of a wall. This was my last layer, wanted to get it done and I was alone. Tried briefly and I would say stupidly to hang the piece without “T”. The T worked great, except for getting T into position. I gently dropped/slid drywall down the wall on 1st try. Only slightly damaged corner of drywall, it was no big deal. Mistake was starting with the T behind me, with in arms reach and leaned up against ladder. The only way I could figure out to do this solo was to lift the drywall while I had the 2x4 T held between my legs. T has to come under drywall while you maneuver your hands out of the way. T ends up at an angle and wedges drywall into position. Following pic shows just the T holding drywall in spot, the screws in pic I placed in drywall before lifting, just in case I needed to go quick. Now these walls just need corner work, more mud and sanding till there reading for paint. My make shift 2” putty knife on a pole for getting caulk into the ridiculously tight spot between air handler and new wall. This method is not fun, how ever slow & messy the process is… it works. It even got caulk into the 1 ½” space, way down in the bottom corner. The patio slab: Question is: Build as my architect has currently designed it OR Remove part or all of slab under studio area OR use some other method to make me not worry about edge of slab next to concrete wall which inner leaf will sit on. I do not want the slab to crack someday, ruin isolation, maybe crack walls and displace my eventual hard wood floor (even though it’ll be a cheap laminate). Other consideration is: this room built with current plan will sit on 2 pre existing slabs which are not level with one another. I’ve yet had the time to figure out how I will level floor if I do not remove and replace at least the patio slab side which is lower and grades down 2” from the garage slab to outer edge. Plus there are hollow concrete blocks which used to be footers where the 2 slabs meet. SO architect’s current design, which does meet code, this has passed building plans examiner: Layout of storage room: Foundation notes: Foundation Plan: Close up, cross section of footer: For comparison sakes the closest footer in Rod’s book to the one currently in my plan is on page 43, Figure 4.4 Differences are: Purpose, Rod’s footer is basically for creating an isolated slab with new footer. Mine is for meeting building code in Florida for exterior walls. The methods are very similar… Rods footer is 2’ wide, mine is 1’. Rod extends concrete of footer under slab it’s supporting, mine is tied via drilling horizontal into old slab and placing rebar with epoxy. Rod uses a binding agent between new and old concrete. Mine just has rebar and although not in plan architect says place 15 pound roofing felt in between my new and old concrete. He said something like “concrete does what concrete does” the felt is to keep the concrete separate so that old and new concrete do not crack each other. This is not an expansion joint. Please note I am not trying to obtain an isolated slab, I just want a slab that will be structural sound enough to place all my walls. The existing condition of my slab is I’ve already cut 2’ x 22’ of the edge of my patio because that’s what my plan says to do: Now the concern: When I removed the 2’ x 22’ edge of concrete I was surprised how easy it was to remove the end pieces from concrete block wall/footer. Sharward did not expect them to be attached in any way… but some how foolishly I still wanted to believe my architect saying this slab was connected to the walls. This has made me concerned about 2 spots: This is where I plan to put my walls: Repeating some info (so it’s all in one place): All pieces of slab I took from edge were 4" min thick; some of it was 5" and 6" thick... I can't confirm whether the rest is actually this thick with out drilling BUT, I suspect it is 4" min all around. One of my previous pics shows some wire mesh that is 6" squares of wire mesh all under slab, however that mesh I highly suspect is not attached to any wall. This slab grades downward from the wall I removed to edge I removed. I could guess it may be thicker as it gets closer to the removed wall. Weight summary of my inner leaf walls and ceiling: Lumber = 750 pounds 2 layers 5/8” drywall all around = 2400 pounds Inner leaf frame weight will be well over 3,500 pounds when adding in caulk, drywall screws, mud, wall insulation, interior acoustic panels and flooring. The total length of all 4 inner leaf walls is about 48 feet. Of this 14’ or so will be bearing on old patio slab 4” thick, which I know is not attached to existing walls. That’s about 30% of the total weight of inner frame or just over 1000 pounds, bearing on 14’ of bottom plates 3 1/2"s wide. SO that's 1000 pounds on 4 sq ft... 250 pounds per square foot.... 20 pounds per square inch. NOW, I really don’t know if I (we) are over concerned about this or not. 3 ½” concrete is suppose to be 2500 psi. Would make sense my patio slab concrete should take 20 or even 50 psi, however it’s the edges not attached to existing walls which put it all in question for me... Crazy thought :twisted: would be to drill at a 45 degree angle from slab into the wall and epoxy in rebar… but that seems real crazy. If I were to remove the rest of patio slab I would either tie new slab to CB walls and horizontally into garage slab OR pour footers for inner walls OR other ideas are welcome. I could remove some of garage slab too however I am really not seeing a need to go that far. The part of this that sucks is that I did not expect to have to deal with concrete, thought I was only going to deal with lumber, drywall, electric etc... all of which I complusively studied months ago. Now I am having to find the time to crash course myself reading about concrete and can't start a darn other thing till I'm sure of the course of action. "Waiting is the hardest part" Tom Petty. Marc

Progress: I am almost done with drywall mud & sanding on the garage side of new walls. With luck today I’ll get my 2nd sanding and last mudding up. Then I can sand and paint. I am also finishing the hole I created in my garage ceiling months ago… the one I luckily did not fall through. I got everything out of the way to paint half the garage (floor too). There is just way to much stuff in the way to paint the entire garage in one go. :roll: Yesterday, I finally go to work on the studio room side of these walls. I bought a 4 ½” angle grinder, metal blades and a diamond tip concrete blade. I almost finished the cuts from removed concrete brick walls. There were some protruding pieces of rebar and concrete. I’m cutting enough back so that I can fill those open block cavities with concrete, evenly with remaining walls. 8) Did I mention I was expecting one of those cavities to already be filled with concrete? By today’s standards this corner cavity would have been filled. I’ve made a decision/plan on the not attached edge of slab next to concrete brick wall. That is I am going to build as planned, will not submit another revision. Once storage room is all done IF I want to reinforce or cut out and re pour a new footer at the edge of the slab I will do it then. It’ll be nice and messy. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: After using the grinder with 4 ½” diamond tip blade, using walk behind wet concrete saw with 14” diamond tip blade and witnessing concrete block wall being taken down with a demo saw using up 3, 14” cheap masonry carbon blades I got some thoughts :idea: Cutting concrete with diamond tip blades is way easier then I thought it would be. Cutting concrete without water is way more messy then I thought it would be. :shock: IF I would have not been such a bone head :oops: and realized I was going to cut out for a new footer on edge of slab before I had wall removed AND IF I knew not to trust my architect’s opinion my slab I would have done this: 1. Convince architect to draw plan so that I would be cutting out and replacing entire patio side of slab under new studio room… dig and build forms for regular inspections, then dig out more for footers under new “not in plan inner walls” and then pour. :idea: 2. I would have cut edge of slab before wall. Would have bought for $140 not rented for $55 a 14” diamond tip blade. 3. At that point I still may have hired the demo crew for the wall BUT now after having my concrete cutting experiences, I would have rented a demo saw that uses 14” blades and cut the wall out myself. I would have tried to find a wet demo saw for the dust. This would have been about a $500 savings from where I am now BUT I would have spent 2 or 3 days cutting the wall, it would not have come down in one day. I would not be doing the finishing end cuts like I’m doing right now because I would have cut it right in the 1st place. Also I would not have had those great photos of the hulk to share with the forum and to cherish for a life time. :mrgreen: Now I’m off to finish my concrete cuts along wall, clean up concrete dust on patio, sand and mud in garage and time permitting start digging out for the footers. Also promised my wife I would mop inside house 3 times to try and get rid of once and for all, concrete dust that has gotten tracked into house. Marc :twisted:

Terminix just came and gave me quotes on Termidor. 2’ x 22’ section of footer/slab I’m doing is there min charge $150, very reasonable. How ever they want $1,500 for the entire house, which puts a bond on my house/insurance against termite damage but I would still have to pay another $225 per year to keep that bond :shock: I am not doing whole house, maybe later. :roll: BTW Keith, I mentioned to the Terminix rep the way you installed PVC piping to your slab perimeter. I have no idea how I would do a similar thing BUT the rep said they currently would not apply Termidor through any sort of piping, even in newer homes that have “Home Defense” piping installed in walls. Currently that is not in Termidor directions, so they don’t apply it through pipe and defiantly won’t bond/insure it. I was thinking on painting my garage floor, half at a time like I am painting ½ of entire walls and ceiling in garage at a time. There is just too much stuff in the way to paint it all at once. However after reading the directions for several epoxy/paint garage floor products I’m going to hold off on that. I would be better off painting the entire floor at once. There is a bit of prep work involved for repainting a garage slab, cleaning, scraping, etching, patching and prime. Better to do that all at once and even though garage is well ventilated, I do not want to chance lead dust in the air with a pregnant wife in the house. Plus depending on the quality I go for it’ll be $100 to $300 and my garage floor is not that bad as is. One less thing to do and expense as I get closer to my room :mrgreen: From my small to do list at the end of last post, I got it all done except any digging for footer and still have one more sanding to do (I hope) before painting garage walls. I was not happy with finish mud/sanding on a few spots so I went for a 4th (and some spots 5th) layer of mud. I am really happy with the patch job I did to my garage ceiling where I almost fell through. I think once the paint is up I will not be able to see any remains of that big hole. I’ll be posting the before and after pics of hole for the hell of it. Got a full plate over the next few days, 4 gigs, my sons B-day party on Saturday and then I (we) paint 1/2 garage on Sunday. 8) BTW, before I get criticism on pics I post of my son working with me. My grandfather let me paint an entire room (well just the walls) by myself when I was 4 years (or less) old, used the ladder all by myself and my grandmother almost lost her mind while I painted (he also let me steer the car on his lap, slow speed many times while my grandma I'm sure swore at him in French). I’ve read directions and warnings on paint I am going to use, will have garage well ventilated with fan and have my son prepped that should we feel “funny” from the smell of the paint (which I’m not expecting) then he’ll have to stop painting the small (but large to him) area of wall which is “his to paint”. He’s presumed he’s going to help and I don’t have the heart to say no for him to paint, he’s helped paint a small area of his own room previously. He’s already been helping with applying drywall mud, been through the warnings on that product too and will post pics of him helping spread mud on a drywall seam, which are really cute. What can I say; I’ve chosen my avatar as guitardad72… BTW 72 is the year I was born. 8) I am off to sand, clean house for B-day party and do some PA and guitar maintenance. Marc :twisted:

guitardad72 wrote:

BTW Keith, I mentioned to the Terminix rep the way you installed PVC piping to your slab perimeter. I have no idea how I would do a similar thing BUT the rep said they currently would not apply Termidor through any sort of piping, even in newer homes that have “Home Defense” piping installed in walls. Currently that is not in Termidor directions, so they don’t apply it through pipe and defiantly won’t bond/insure it.

Hmmm... :roll: ...Interesting. I guess I won't use Terminix five years from now when I need another treatment! ;-) Ah well... :roll: ...A 20-year termite control veteran gave me the idea of using a PVC system for future applications. I don't necessarily need them to bond or insure. I didn't have the entire house treated this year anyway. Be sure Junior wears eye protection while painting to protect against splatters. :-) Interesting bit about lead paint -- "most homes built before 1960 contain heavily leaded paint, and some homes built as recently as 1978 may also contain lead paint" (source). I guess you do need to be concerned. You're wise to hold off on the floor. When the time comes, rather than painting it, consider those cool garage floor coatings, like these. --Keith :mrgreen:

I got rained out from gig tonight :D

Hmmm... ...Interesting. I guess I won't use Terminix five years from now when I need another treatment!

Rep said the Termidor treatment I'm getting for footer & got quote for whole house should last 20 years. Rep said there is a test house somewhere on year 11 with this treatment and it's still as good as when it was applied. Can't find that info on there web site though Termidor, oh well.

I guess you do need to be concerned. You're wise to hold off on the floor. When the time comes, rather than painting it, consider those cool garage floor coatings, like these

Yup exactly like I was looking at and they are really cool 8) With out doing a lot of price comparisons, it seems a DIY coating like those for a 2 car garage start at $300 and up. It can wait though. Some pics: From my drive way, about the same spot I've taken other pics of garage from but obviously turned around; shot of the Space Shuttle Atlantis going up last week on Sept 9, 2006: For kicks and giggles, Junior helping with drywall mud. His name is Cavin he'll be 4 on Sunday: He did make it all the way to bottom of seam, and yes I went over it with a 8" drywall knife and tape, right after him. Turned out fine and if you can't tell from the pics he had a lot of fun. Wife took pics and took him to shower straight after. :roll: It's almost 12am right now, best time of day to go shopping at Wal-Mart. Marc :twisted:

Hey Marc, here's a form I found for you... ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) Of course I'm kidding! :mrgreen: Although there are probably some people around here who think I'm not! :o Cavin sure is a cutie. He's lucky to have a dad that lets him do such cool stuff! 8) Very cool picture of Atlantis. 8) I think I saw a report on the longevity of a termiticide ground treatment on a house that had been previously infested with termites, and yeah, the results were awesome, even some 11 or 12 years after the fact. Interesting stuff. --Keith :mrgreen:

Somehow I thought that Kevin would bring up the child labor laws!.... But really, Cavin is probably not just happy to get to play with the 'mud', but also to be near the launch site for NASA... Wow, space and astronauts -- that's a boy's dream, ain't it still? Sounds like he's got the life, despite having to work PT as a plasterer! P.S. will he be available to help me out when I have to thin-set the joints in the cementboard? lol...

Got some progress to report but 1st… Luftweg,

But really, Cavin is probably not just happy to get to play with the 'mud', but also to be near the launch site for NASA... Wow, space and astronauts -- that's a boy's dream, ain't it still? Sounds like he's got the life, despite having to work PT as a plasterer!

Yup, Cavin is lucky not only to be 15mins from Kennedy Space Center but also 45mins from Universal Orlando, 1hr from Disney and the crazy amount of other kid friendly attractions hear in Central Florida. He does not realize yet where he lives (as a parent this is a good thing). Since he was born hear, most likely he will end up like my wife and her family. This is where they’ve lived all there life, that stuff is just here and having a powerful mouse in your back yard comes with a set of issues, none of which effect kids. I am from Canada and like most Floridians I am a transplant, I’ve not yet even really seen the theme parks, even though previously I had 5 nights a week house gigs at both Disney (Rock’N’Roll Beach Club) and Universal (Hard Rock Café) AND still work regularly work in and around the parks. All I’ve seen is “what ever is around” while I’ve had down time from a gig. MY PLAN is in a few months when our second child arrives to spend some time becoming a kid again. Go see the mouse & friends, just me and my son at the time I’m expecting him to feel “left out” from the attention our new baby will receive. PROGRESS or BABBLE of my “have to” pre studio work: I’m still working on finishing the garage; I’ve got no progress to report on studio. :oops: Got new drywall primed and half of garage painted. As I said before I let my son help, I took pics to share. :shock: Notice he’s holding a clean mini roller and the puddle of paint beside the tray that I spilled. :roll: I spilled more paint then he did. The goggles came from Wal-Mart, came with a weed whacker toy for $5, great B-day present for him. The “before and after” of the hole I busted in my garage ceiling, almost fell through while moving control wire of sprinkler system which was in the way of my studio room. Still I got more work to do on my “garage remodel” AND I promise I’ll only post one more pic of garage when it’s all done, hopefully within the next week. But let me tell you, I am SO GLAD I am getting the garage done 1st before studio room. Not only cause all our storage “stuff” is in our baby’s room and my PA gear in our entrance doorway, but I’m losing or having a real hard time finding my tools. I can’t find my new 3’ long crow bar or wire crimpers. I’ve shifted so much stuff, mainly my tools & building supplies, this way and that way around garage in order to knock out the CB wall, build new walls and now paint half the garage, that I’ve got multiple piles of stuff and I don’t know what’s in each pile. I just wasn’t able to keep stuff organized. I’ve bought some Coleman Tuff Duty garage storage cabinets from Lowes. Tomorrow I’m rebuilding my large plywood storage shelves, putting my tool peg board back up, will start finding spots for all my tools again and work towards clearing the other side of garage so I can paint it and make my wife happy… let her park her car there again after months of parking in the driveway. Marc :twisted:

That's got to be the best "Marc and his loyal assistant" pics you've posted so far. 8) Even Mrs. Sharward thought it was extraordinarily cute! :D Wow, that is one heck of an impressive "before/after" picture! 8) If I didn't know better, I'd think I was looking at a different kind of "before/after" picture: Before you busted through the ceiling and After! :lol: Excellent job!! :twisted: I can definitely relate to the critical need to be organized. Not only will you be able to work more efficiently, you'll enjoy the house more, and you won't become frustrated misplacing stuff. Don't get too stressed out about not making any real progress on the studio. Sometimes you just have to get your sh#* together first. ;-) Those are some pretty nice cabinets. I would like to do something similar once my studio is done. Hey, my wife and I and her parents are planning a trip to WDW in January or February of next year. I've already made clear to them my intentions to get out to see your place! 8) I'll let you know once we've got some dates nailed down. It's funny that you're getting ready to open up the garage to wife parking, because just today I was contemplating a possible need to evict our cars for a short while! :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

Eh Keith

That's got to be the best "Marc and his loyal assistant" pics you've posted so far.

I think that's the 1st pic with me in it that I've posted.

Wow, that is one heck of an impressive "before/after" picture!

Thank you, but... if your standing under that area you can see some flaws, I mudded and sanded that area at least 5 maybe 6 times. The rest of garage ceiling is not in great shape, I fixed some of it. Since I now have the confidence to repair drywall I'm going to fix some other spots on the other of garage. Repairing that hole and finishing the new drywall has been a really good lesson in how much sanding it takes.

Sometimes you just have to get your sh#* together first.

Yup, exactly and in this case I don't have a choice.

Those are some pretty nice cabinets. I would like to do something similar once my studio is done.

Yup they look nice but I hope the hold out. I wanted to get a metal tool storage cabinet on rollers BUT the goods ones are expensive, they are meant more for tool storage not “tool and stuff” storage. I could put rollers on these ones, but don't see the need. They are made of particle board with a “heavy duty meant for garage laminate”, which out of the box shows signs of wear. They will soot my purpose. Marc

guitardad72 wrote:

I think that's the 1st pic with me in it that I've posted.

It's at least the second one, Marc -- this is the first! :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

Sharward,

It's at least the second one, Marc -- this is the first!

Man nothing gets by you. I need to wine a little bit… :oops: I can’t believe how frigin long its taking me to finish/ remodel my garage. I just got the 2nd half painted today. :shock: Now I just got to sort all of my stuff (big tools, small tools, building supplies, Xmas storage, sound & light equipment and junk) and put it back into garage. Reasons this has taken so long… I decided to do a good job, build/buy some more storage space, re-tape some drywall cracks from old tape falling out of ceiling, fix holes in walls, do some electrical work (add outlets, separate some circuits, add GCFI protection where needed) and clean every dang thing that I’ve not replaced. Next on my list of working my way towards “allowing myself to work on studio room” is paint, carpet and put new closet doors in baby’s room. That is once I get through I’m sure a full days work off getting all the storage stuff out of the room. Hopefully I’ll get at least one box out of that room and into garage tomorrow night. The Due day… wife is having a C section and the Doc picked the day: November 21st IF all goes as planned. We just found out its going to be a girl, (1st sonogram baby’s legs were too tight together to tell). My wife is leaving work on Nov 2 or so. As planned I’ve started to increase my gigs to make up for my wife’s income disappearing in a few months… so I have less time to work towards “allowing myself to work on studio room” Since I’m wining… my house insurance just almost tripled. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: I was paying $1,400 a year, now the cheapest and only choice I have is $3,700 per year. My old insurance company went bankrupt (from past 2 years of Hurricane damage claims) and I was underinsured compared to the increase in value of my house (it’s almost doubled in 3 years). I’m finding out a lot of others hear in Florida are going through the same thing, for me this increases my monthly house payment by $200… I didn’t need that. Oh well this is the price I pay for no snow tropical weather and living in a wealthy mouse’s back yard. :twisted: I have no idea how much of my studio room will be complete when new baby arrives, my original plan was to have it done before baby, but I’ve long thrown that goal out. It’s going to be weeks before I get to prep that footer. AND in re-routing wires in my attic I've done something to the coaxil cable that runs to my cable modem which looses signal typically when the air hanlder comes on. I've tried several fixes so far, repaired fraid ends 2x, thought I had it to close to air handler (well I did) so I moved coaxil wire away from handler twice, got rid of a splitter and shorter coaxil cablesl. Next step is to completely replace coaxil run, maybe I damaged it... BUT Hear's a QUESTION Keeping above paragraph in mind I also moved recepticle and re-routed 120V AC wire to behind my air handler. It runs down the wall directly behind air handler, say 5 feet of the run is within 1 foot or less of the air handler. This is where power for all my computer stuff comes from, could that cause interference to devices plugged into that power source? And kinda good note. My patio is currently kinda of useless BUT I’m liking hanging out in my new garage. I’m a smoker; don’t smoke inside so the smoking spot is important to me. OK I’m done. :P Marc :twisted:

OK, this is a MAJOR update for me: After 6 months or more my wife is now parking her car in the garage. I got the garage side of studio work done... well every item has not found a permanent "home", there are still some things to eBay sell or throw out and there is still some touch up paint needed BUT it's my garage and it's allowed to look a little messy. This is way more organized then it was 1 year ago. 1st pic, from left to right: - White shelf on wall was the only thing not moved during work. - PA & light equipment under and in front of canvas. - Behind peg board, new large shelves for X-mas & other storage (I live in a neighborhood that competes at Christmas time, we have a Santa on a sleigh in the neighborhood, cars line up to drive through our neighbor hood to look at lights and visit Santa who collects money for charity's) I have a lot of X-mas decor. - NEW location for Peg board and new cabinets with work top. Power receptacle installed, wire in conduit behind peg board. - That's a "false" 2x4 wall mounted to floor and ceiling holding up peg board and shelves. - Large Cabinet in back is in front of my air handler. I put casters on it. I made a shelf above my water heater using 2x4's and 3/4" plywood and extended one 2x4 to behind large cabinet which I used to bolt cabinet to. - The hole is gone above electrical panel. - Got a new light fixture on ceiling. 2nd pic, the peg board & cabinets. THIS is what I tried to have before in my garage BUT peg board was above a shelf unit not cabinet with work top. This is SO MUCH Better. I got another multi drawer storage thing for screws, nails, etc... again SO MUCH BETTER. I can find things. Behind multi drawer storage and in between big storage shelves and my studio wall is where I've decided to store in a vertical position hurricane and other plywood and building materials. I know your not suppose to store plywood vertically and I know this may effect isolation of studio BUT, I just do not have any where else to put this plywood. Last pic, the other garage wall. That's a track and movable hooks by Rubbermaid costing about $150. Previously I had a set of $20 hooks and a flimsy long tool hook holder thing, all of which were not adjustable. Although this track and hook system is expensive it's completely worth it as to not have to drill new holes in wall in order to organize big tools hanging on wall. This track is GREAT. NOW if I include what I've spent on remodeling my garage into my studio cost... so far I'm at $7,300. I will post a detailed report of everything I've spent sooner or later. I was done with garage (for now) on Saturday. I've already started on new baby's room patching walls and around the closet where I ripped the doors off (that were SUPER attached via trim to the wall). Won't be long and all I'll have left to post about is actually working on my studio room. :twisted:

Wow, that's awesome! 8) I'll have to look into that hook thing.

Mark,

Keeping above paragraph in mind I also moved recepticle and re-routed 120V AC wire to behind my air handler. It runs down the wall directly behind air handler, say 5 feet of the run is within 1 foot or less of the air handler. This is where power for all my computer stuff comes from, could that cause interference to devices plugged into that power source?

Seems that distance may be OK...if NOT you might want to look into extra shielding for the CPU in PC - is the PC in metal or plastic housing? Extra details can be found heaps of places under EMI..(Electro Magnetic Interference) This (below) is probably overkill if you do get noise but food for thought if shifting the PC cabling doesn't work - interesting http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/App ... AN_347.pdf How did the 3.5 hour trip for a 10 minute gig go? Were you Neil? Which tunes did you do? re daughter...only 1 month to go Mark....Take Care mate