Dan F's One-Room Garage Studio

Congratulations Dan!!!! I'll have a couple extra hours sleep for ya, ( as you probably won't be for a while).

thanks guys ... :) close one there, i almost hijacked keith's thread with a bunch of baby talk :) :) we are still in hospital, but baby is off oxygen now and looks like we'll be headed back home tomorrow or friday. he's doing great, he's hooked up to a bunch of wires and tubes right now, but he seems comfy and everything is cool. came home a bit to shower and play with my other two kids a little. went out to the garage and, after the stresses and discomforts of this week, looked at the project longingly, dreaming of getting back to the simpler pursuits like beefing up outer leaves of stucco :) later! dan

here's a pic of the latest obstacle to studio completion :) :) owen yan sing fitzpatrick, 7lbs 3oz dan

Get a load of that head of hair!! 8) Congratulations... Good lookin' kid!

thanks keith! here are a couple of pictures from about a week ago, just before the baby was born. never got a chance to post them. as you can see, almost all of the building paper has been closed up again. beneath the closed up, old paper is a layer of new paper. the old paper was glued down with a liquid nails type product. i decided not to continue using the roofing cement to seal any of the paper edges, i just used acoustic caulk which hopefully will do the job. the vapors from the roof cement i used are extremely noxious and also carcinogenic, and after i realized how much smell got into the house i decided it wasn't worth the health risks. on the roof, where this stuff is meant to be used, that is not much of an issue. you also can see in the first photo a small triangle at the bottom has been filled with mortar, rather than wallboard. in another, larger triangle i used a "buttered" piece of drywall as an experiment. i may use mortar to fill other odd gaps that crop up, like the unevenness that's sure to occur between the layers of sheetrock and the diagonal brace. it's dense and, unlike wallboard, can be easily be applied to fairly large gaps in a custom thickness. it's also much cheaper than drywall mud. also, my garage is now full of insulation. i don't really need it yet, but a couple of fellow forum-ites wanted to get rid of it cheap and i happily obliged them! :) d

Damn! Look at all that Roxul AFB! :evil: :evil: :evil: I hate you. :evil: :evil: :evil: However, if you run out, I'll be happy to help you rid yourself of it on your next Sacramento trip! :lol: Look at us, actually doing crap!! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Dan, first off congrats on the family addition; I'm sure you're already looking forward to about 20 years of interspersed periods of joy and angst - it's been my experience that you need to (a) find time to tell them you love them every single day, preferably multiple times, and (2) find time to tell them you won't tolerate any crap every single day, necessarily multiple times, and (c) make sure you maintain the exact same "line in the sand" on acceptible behaviour whether it's Friday and you've just been given a raise (along with easier schedule) or it's Monday :cry: and you've just been given a new assistant to train, along with shorter deadlines on two pivotal projects, and (oh, BTW) after you train the new assistant, he'll be your BOSS... But then, sounds like you're probably already aware of all that :wink: Other than that, I hope you don't think I've been ignoring you; it's more that I've not seen much reason to butt in (nor, unfortunately, the time to do it) One thing; if you use mortar for fill-in, I'd check on whether it's a good plan to have it in direct contact with any other building materials, specifically wood or gypsum (wood mainly) - masonry products in general are capable of holding about 10 times as much moisture as wood before mold problems arise. What I've always done is to use at least one layer of 30# building felt between any masonry(or metal) and any wood to provide a "thermal break" - not sure, however, how I'd go about this on your diagonal bracing, which (I assume) are "let in" to the uprights. Anyway, lookin' good so far... Steve

Congratulations Dan! What a good-looking kid! Although not so “soundproof” don’t ignore Steve’s advice regarding the above post. :lol: BTW, all that Roxul AFB looks very familiar. :wink:

haha good advice steve. that's the toughest part of being a parent so far, being the "mean dad." my others are only 4 and 2 1/2, but they've given me plenty of practice on drawing the "line in the sand" ... although i can't claim to have been as consisent as i should :lol: glad you think it's looking good so far. thanks for the reminder about the mortar/wood connection, that had slipped my mind. i'll put some felt there first as you suggest. :) yes the diagonals are in grooves that have been cut into the studs. keith, you are definitely my "go-to" guy as far as getting rid of excess materials :) ... actually while that may look like quite a bit of rockwool it's not nearly enough to fill all my walls and ceiling with 12 inch gaps. i'm either buying more of it or doing a rockwool/fiberglass combo (partly fill all the walls with rockwool, and fill the remainder with fiberglass). by the way, if i do this does it matter which leaf i put the rockwool against? i seem to remember there is a theoretical preference, but i'm not sure. yeah hi alex :) , if you ever miss your excess rockwool, you can always come to my thread to see how the little guys are doing :lol: ... about 8 of those are from another forum member so you can be assured they're making new friends :) dan

time for some caulk talk :) by the way i did have a chance to try out the USG vs. the Miracle acoustic sealant. the usg seems to have more mass, although i haven't actually checked that. it's more viscous and a bit harder to squeeze out. these two properties make it seem "better" than the Miracle, which seems less robust. Actually the Miracle is easier to work with though because of the hard to squeeze factor. And this was stuff that's been in my relatively warm/hot garage too. Dried they look and feel about the same. Translucent white, rubbery, non-tacky. I haven't done the "large gap torture test" to see if the USG leaves pinholes like the Miracle. i bet the heavier USG has the edge there. but overall i'm not concerned about this issue to worry about it anymore. both clean up easily. oh yeah one more thing. because the USG takes a harder squeeze, it also suffers from the problem of "it won't stop coming out of the nozzle" more than the Miracle. so the Miracle is also better to work with for that reason. i don't think i had to flip the pushrod around to disengage the teeth with the miracle, but with the usg i did have to. this is a pain as anyone who has caulked knows.

No preference on which side the rockwool is on, just don't put it in the middle with the fluffy fiberglass stuff on BOTH sides; this could possibly act as a partial third leaf and hurt LF TL a bit. And no, I have no proof of this; it's just a theory of mine, based on the results of USG's insulation density tests and my wild-assed idea that the reason LF performance on insulation goes against intuition is that the heavier batts tend to either act as a third leaf or else they're flanking thru the wall from over compression; anyway, personally that's my thought. Caulking; I don't remember ever using a type of caulk that DIDN'T "keep going" - don't think I'd trust stuff that didn't :? have you actually weighed each type cartridge and compared them; not sure, but I think those are LIQUID ounces so if there's a major diff in mass the carts should weigh different too... Steve

knightfly wrote:

I don't remember ever using a type of caulk that DIDN'T "keep going" . . .

Actually, I bought a 10-ounce gun at Home Depot yesterday that's spring-loaded to (supposedly) address this. It should help keep the Liquid Nails stuff in the tube when I'm not squeezing. It was less than $4. I don't think their quart-sized guns had this feature though.

knightfly wrote:

have you actually weighed each type cartridge and compared them; not sure, but I think those are LIQUID ounces so if there's a major diff in mass the carts should weigh different too... Steve

the usg tube definitely weighs a bit more, but i haven't had a chance to actually weigh them ... i'll have to bring them into work and use the postal scale :)

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

here's a pic of the latest obstacle to studio completion :) :) owen yan sing fitzpatrick, 7lbs 3oz dan

CONGRATS!! I have a 10 week old boy. 8lbs 6ozs. Amazing! Thats a lot of hair! Good for you, thats great. Is mom and baby all ok?

yeah they are both great, thanks for asking ballgame :)

Quickie update. Have had a modest amount of time to work on the ol' studio in the past few days. Here are a few pix. A couple of comments. OK, maybe one comment. Clearly, these walls are NOT flat. There are definitely gaps under the OSB. MOST definitely. But I'm like, whatever. I did the best I could y'know. So, anyway, whatever. There will be some "resonances." But maybe for all the efforts I made, the resonances will be higher frequency than they would have been. They can't take that away from me! In retrospect, hindsight being 20-20 and all, I don't think I'd make the effort to smoothen out the stucco. I'm not sure it was worth anything. But it is done. Anyway it wasn't worth much. So if anyone is listening who has lumpy ass stucco, maybe that will help them decide what to do. Just cover it up with some OSB like I did and add a bunch of drywall you'll be fine. OK? OK. Alright. Check out the pix. :) Yeah I'm a little grumpy :) :) Dan

On the plus side, since the gap varies a lot, the resonances will be all different frequencies depending on the particular spot. So maybe on the whole the overall effect won't be that bad. Anyway I'm sure everything will be fine :)

Nice! Very nice! Got a close-up of your rack? :roll: (I decided not to edit that! :twisted:) Interesting how you decided to use OSB cleats! How thick is your OSB? Looks like a very clean sealing job, too, I must say. Have you decided what you're going to do on the back side of the electric panel? :roll: How straight were your studs? Many of mine were twisted and/or not plumb, which made things a bit challenging for me. Some of my gaps between edge of OSB and stud are wider than I would have liked, but "oh well." I just keep recalling the advice I got from the StudioTips people that the little gaps shouldn't matter as long as the overall leaf seal is good. I wanna' see 700ish pixel wide photos next time, Danman! None of these 400 pixel postage stamps!! ;-) Again, nice work. It must have felt good to move the marker down the board a bit.

sharward wrote:

Got a close-up of your rack? :roll: (I decided not to edit that! :twisted:)

you asked for it :twisted:

first of all i apologize for the above pic. however at least it isn't a pic of my concrete-burned bum (hi paul w!)

sharward wrote:

Interesting how you decided to use OSB cleats! How thick is your OSB?

7/16 ... thinner than i wanted, but that's all HD seemed to have in stock. :cry: i actually screwed up on my lengths a couple times with the main panel and had to double up on my top cleat to fill the gap.

sharward wrote:

Looks like a very clean sealing job, too, I must say.

yeah i find the sealing very satisfying, even though it may not really be needed in theory :)

sharward wrote:

Have you decided what you're going to do on the back side of the electric panel? :roll:

not sure, probably a mixture of things. i'll definitely include the blow-by-blow you can be sure!

sharward wrote:

How straight were your studs?

not too bad, maybe as much as 1/2 inch off at the worst top to bottom, but mostly better than that.

sharward wrote:

I wanna' see 700ish pixel wide photos next time, Danman! None of these 400 pixel postage stamps!! ;-)

just trying to be a bit bandwidth conscious :) ... that reminds me, it really is time for me to do another donation to the cause! :) oh yeah, back to the "rack" ... although i do like your rack idea, i actually own a table saw ($179 at sears) and so naturally i wondered if i could handle ripping a 4x8 sheet on it by myself. i wasn't sure, but with the 4x8 plywood-on-sawhorses "table" behind the table saw (the sawhorses were cut to be even with the table) and the relatively lightweight 7/16 OSB it wasn't too hard (i recommend gloves, that stuff is splinter-iffic). i decided to use osb cleats because i wanted the cleats to be deep, so i could put several layers of gypsum in there easily. also the bonus is it's probably cheaper than using pre-cut fir boards. but more work of course to rip them. all in all i think it is good because i can throw 2 inches of gypsum on there if i want with no problem. actually my current plan is 5/8 + 1/2 + 1/2 but i'll decide for sure later. table saw pic below (somewhat obscured by random crap). dan

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

first of all i apologize for the above pic. however at least it isn't a pic of my concrete-burned bum (hi paul w!)

It's all my fault!! :lol:

sharward wrote:

Interesting how you decided to use OSB cleats! How thick is your OSB?

7/16 ... thinner than i wanted, but that's all HD seemed to have in stock. :cry:

Yeah, that's what I was originally going to use. But they were out of stock on that size, but they did have 15/32, which is what I'm using. Yeah, I know -- do the math. It's hard to imagine that's much of a difference. :roll:

i decided to use osb cleats because i wanted the cleats to be deep, so i could put several layers of gypsum in there easily. also the bonus is it's probably cheaper than using pre-cut fir boards. but more work of course to rip them. all in all i think it is good because i can throw 2 inches of gypsum on there if i want with no problem. actually my current plan is 5/8 + 1/2 + 1/2 but i'll decide for sure later.

Exactly. I'm running into that issue now. My fir cleats were $2.50 apiece and are 5/8" wide and 1 1/2" deep. I had the 2 1/2" in my hand at Home Depot and decided to save $1 each going with the smaller ones. Now I'm regretting that. If I had ripped 3" OSB strips (cleats) instead, the materia cost savings would have been about $70 and I wouldn't have the issue of my cleats potentially not keeping up with the amount of gypsum I put on the wall. :evil: Oh, well -- hindsight is always 20/20. Just goes to show that even when you have everything planned out to the nth degree, there are always tweaks to the plan. :roll:

table saw pic below (somewhat obscured by random crap).

I had thought about buying a table saw. I ultimately decided against it (obviously). I may still do so at some point. We'll see. Thanks for the detailed reply... Although maybe a wee bit too much detail in a certain photograph! ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

IF you envision having a LOT of ripping to do with large panels, I'd consider seeing if that saw will accept a table extension wide enough to allow 24" or more between the edge of the table and the blade; if so, you can then clamp a 4' length of straight 2x4 parallel to the blade to use as a rip guide. If not, you may also be able to MAKE an extension table from a piece of OSB and some 2x framing - although this can rapidly become a serious project in its own right. For skil saw users, there are combination clamp/edge guides available up to 8' long; I have the 3' and 4' versions of this, two each. They really come in handy. you just measure from the nearest and furthest tooth of your blade to the edge of the saw's shoe, and offset your measurements by that amount when you clamp the edge guide. http://woodbutcher.net/images/normstools/tru-grip.htm http://www.internationaltool.com/trugrip.htm Or, you can just cover up the wavy edges with caulk and cleats :wink:

Quit bouncin' that baby around and get crackin' on that studio of yours! :lol:

ok, here's a quickie ... somewhat interesting. i've been pluggin away at that same wall, putting up an OSB panel here and there, and caulking. but i haven't had much time. i did, however start in on that electrical box problem area. i debated what to do here, there is a gas pipe, the main electrical conduits, etc. was i going to fill this in with mortar, OSB and drywall? No way. Forget it. So I decided to try that foam filler. This is a closed cell urethane that is very lightweight, so it doesn't have any isolating ability, and since it is closed cell it doesn't offer any dampening ability either. What it DOES do (i hope) is prevent a resonance in the space, in other words prevent a triple leaf. It seemed to work pretty well. I was afraid of it at first but actually it turned out to be fun to work with. It expands very rapidly at first and then seems to stop but in reality it keeps expanding for maybe a half hour before it dries. It also fills up more space that you would expect. It is expensive, maybe about 4 bucks a can or maybe more, but i think i can finish this problem area with 3 cans. then i'll close the space up with OSB and then go with mulitple layers of drywall. the one problem is that this will drastically affect my airgap, but maybe i'll throw some extra mass in there and maybe it won't be too big a deal. hopefully there aren't any safety issues with this. i'm pretty sure this stuff doesn't conduct electricity. it is a bit flammable but not too bad (it's flame retardant), and there won't be any air available for it to burn so it shouldn't be a problem either. if i have to remove the foam it actually can be chiseled away fairly easily. one thing DO NOT get this stuff on your hands, it does not come off. it will "wear off" in a couple days though. any comments?

Cool! Soundproofing Foam! :lol: Thanks for sharing. I think that's a good plan for an unpleasant situation. Just be glad the breakers aren't facing into the garage!! :shock: Imagine what a crimp in your plan that would have been! --Keith :mrgreen: