Dan F's One-Room Garage Studio

ok len, consider your advice taken! no i haven't used it yet. :D that was a worry about cracking the concrete, especially as i will be fairly near the edges of the slab. thanks fellas. d

Ditto Len's advice! Fortunately I'll be setting J bolts in my new concrete so I won't have to worry about this. ;-)

Ramset tools (powder actuated) can be dangerous if not careful as already mentioned; they are faster, they do work, but they can also "spall" your concrete (break out chunks) and it's very difficult to get just the right "load" for each situation. ONce you drive a "nail" partway into too-hard concrete, it's THERE. (There are several loads for each caliber tool - IIRC, the .22 uses yellow, red, green, maybe blue, and purple (the highest pressure one) - For speed, I'd use ramset; for accuracy/studio construction, stay with the hammer drill; you're putting in floor plates, so it's the easiest to get enough pressure on since you'll be pushing DOWN on the drill and can use body weight to advantage. Don't forget the Thermal Break under wall plates... Steve

Cool, i was hoping you'd chime in on this ramset thing, Steve. For the thermal break, i've bought a roll of 30 pound roof felt, and i plan on using 2 layers ... the sole plate will be pressure treated wood also ... as you recommended way back on page 1 of this thread! :D if i have a bunch of extra roof felt, which i should, :lol: i might throw some in between layers of gypsum, can't hurt right? i think that's something i've seen people do. i guess i'll go buy that hammer drill then. :evil:

Yeah Dan I’m all about safety too, I’m currently pricing out steal toe shoes for my concrete wall demolition event. I made a mistake with earplugs a short while ago, I let my 3 year old try them and then for days after that he was sticking everything he could in his ears. :P EDIT: hey Dan I moved the pic over to Safety During Demolition, Construction Well I'm leaning on anchor bolts instead of tapcon now and I have another topic to research. I started writing about do and don’ts of tapcon in previous post and hit delete as I tend to babble. But since you asked, even though I think the winner may be anchor bolts hear is my 2 cents for everyone’s reading. My experience with Hammer Drills & Tapcon screws; learning by screwing up. When I 1st moved into a house in Florida I had a regular drill. It took forever to drill into a wall, I destroyed many drill bits & my 1st cordless drill. 1st Hurricane season hit and the guys in the family teamed up to put up hurricane shutters on 3 houses with plywood and tapcon screws. We started with a regular drill on my house and made way too many holes as we made our 1st mistakes around 1st window. About 1/2 way through my house we borrowed a hammer-drill. After the 1st hole was drilled I was sold. In comparison "it did go through like butter" ... but couldn't buy one that day cause all the hardware stores were sold out of hammer drills and everything else related to hurricane supplies. I advice to never try and drill through concrete with a regular drill or bits, it's painfully slow & not cost effective. BTW, I've put and taken down hurricane shutters 3 times, 2 of the times were in a real hurry as we prepared to evacuate and beat the traffic of millions of other people heading for another state. Now I got a 18V cordless hammer drill that was about $250USD at HD. When drilling into concrete, start slow or you'll miss the mark as I have many times... once you miss and drilled over the pencil mark things worsen... that goes for drilling into stucco, concrete block or anything concrete. The hammer drill can bounce off the concrete, best to start with the hammer off to get dug in. Drywall over concrete is a little easier but once the bounce starts on the concrete the size of the hole on the drywall can get big if not careful. Drilling into a 2x4 with concrete on the other side is the easiest cause the wood guides the drill bit straight into the concrete. Screwing in tapcon screws... of course I want to drive in the screws with a drill... but again got to be careful as the drill doesn't always want to get the screw in flush, it will crap out 25% of the time even on the highest torque and then the screw head can be stripped. Solution is to use a wrench or ratchet on the last part of drive, tightening by hand so you can "feel it" using body weight to not strip the head. Concrete screws & bolts come with or without a masonry drill bit. Always use the right size drill bit or the screw won’t go in or will slip out. I learned that drilling the holes around my 1st window for hurricane shutters. I've screwed so many tapcon screws I thought it worth while to post about it. Marc

guitardad72 wrote:

. . . I’m currently pricing out steal toe shoes for my concrete wall demolition event. . .

I got mine at Wal-Mart -- cheap! 8) They were great during my concrete breakup phase.

good tips Marc. love the kid pic. i got a pair of kid-size glasses for my son (4.5 years old) at home depot so he could watch me work, but then my little girl (nearly 3) wanted to join in and i had to get her a pair as well. earplugs too of course for both. naturally, they have to leave if i am doing anything remotely dangerous. how old is your boy? i'll investigate further on anchor systems ... i guess the key aspect is the diameter of the hole, but also how easy to use. didn't realize cordless would be an option on the hammer drill ... worth considering i guess but i bet those batteries go out quick. And Sharward, let that be the last mention of :twisted: -Mart in my thread. :lol:

Dan, my son is 3 1/2. I got him sunbanz, (sunglasses with headband) now but didn't realize HD had kid work glasses. My son can not take the noise of the hammer drill in action no matter how far away he is in the house. I've learned to warn him before I turn it on; he's cool with it but runs away as far as he can get from where I am drilling. I got a: RIDGID 1/2 In. 18 V X2 Cordless Hammer Drill Model R841151 from Home Depot. I'd post the link but it's a long one, it's on homedepot.com they are $229 on special right now and out of stock. It comes with 2 batteries and a case. I can not use up a battery before the other is completely re-charged. It comes with a quick charger that has a fan to cool the battery as it charges and discharges battery if needed before recharging to extend life of battery. Replacement batteries are something like $80 and mine have worked great for almost 2 years, with minimum use. It pays to read directions. My old 14V regular cordless drill was killed by the charger not having the cooling fan and discharger, by me running it like crazy through concrete walls it was not meant to go through and storing it in the heat. Store rechargeable batteries at room temperate. I had stored it in the 90+ degree heat of garage. hmm I should post this in the "What Not To Do" Section huh? Marc

interesting! good to know about storing batteries ... where else would you store them but in the garage?

well i bought the hammer drill and some of those tapcon screws. i really wanted to buy the hex heads for ease of driving but i wasn't sure as they might need to be flush so they don't get in the way of other things?? well hopefully the phillips heads will be ok :roll: i bought a ryobi for about $60 ... yes it's by far the cheapest one around but i thought i'd try to see if i could get away with it. it's not like i'm going to use it a lot. also i've bought other ryobi things and i think they are pretty good tools. BUT... what was REALLY cool was i saw Ryobi has a CORDLESS ELECTRIC CAULK GUN for $40. i was really tempted to get it. how cool is that??????

The big difference for me is the hex heads are not as easy to strip as the Phillips head. Hex heads are easier to ratchet in, but like you said there not as easy to get flush, unless you pre drilled a counter sink. Hum if you wanted to get the Phillips in flush nicely you may want to counter sink any ways. Did you get a variable speed hammer drill, allowing a greater chance of staying on target? Marc

well i still have to return the gunpowder tool stuff, so maybe i'll get the hex heads. now that i think about it more there should be no need to have the heads be flush. i was thinking i would have a double plate, but i guess that's on top not on the bottom. oops there i go exposing my pathetic knowledge of construction. :oops: luckily i have a book on that. i should look at that book more. :P yeah the ryobi i got is variable speed, but it also has 2 speeds, if that makes sense. i guess two speed ranges. and you can turn off the hammer feature as needed. it has a outrigger handle and also a depth guage rod, which is nice.

a little catch up on stuff. here are the before and after pix of the garage door after i dented it, and pounded out the dent. it turned out ok.

moved the insulation out of the garage. don't worry i covered it up with plastic after. yes i feel stupid getting insulation so early ... but it was a good deal ... :lol: ... and of course it is not enough, it's probably less than half what i'll need.

here's how the shipment of 3/8 backer rod came. 500 feet for $31 including shipping, that's 6.2 cents a foot vs. HD price at least 11 cents/ft (if it's even in stock).

started using that concrete seam sealer. this stuff is runny and a bit smelly but not too bad. it does have some scary warnings on it. best to do the sealing and then leave the area for a few hours. also requires backer rod. HD has a huge 3/4 inch rod for this in the masonry additive section. in reality various sizes may be needed. the 3/4 rod has also come in handy for some odd giant gaps in my garage wall.

now for the best part. my dad came down again and we managed to get part of a wall done. there was a lot to be done before the wall could be put up, basically to make it so the truss assembly would load onto the wall properly, so that the truss itself wouldn't bear all the loads. the six inch vertical gap between the 2x10 (nailed to the truss) and the bottom of the truss had to be filled up with wood and shims added so the bottom truss chord and the new wood would be even. then what will end up being the top plate was nailed on to the truss assembly. we debated whether to build the wall "to fit" or leave a little gap to make it easy to put in. i don't know how this is usually done, but it made sense to me based on experience, if you cut something exactly to fit, there is no way you are going to get it in. so there is a little gap between the "top plate" and the real top of the wall. i'm thinking that some the thing to do here is use some shims directly over the studs, preferably not cedar ones that seem to me to be a bit wimpy. maybe i can find fir ones? the Ryobi $60 hammer drill seems like a well made tool and performed admirably. the tapcon screws are a little tricky, i broke one of the first ones i put in but got it out, then used the same hole for another screw and it worked fine. i'm not sure how strong these are. i used the 3/16 ones but i can see why you might want the 1/4" ones ... anyway, i'll be using a lot of these to make sure the bottom plate stays put. this wall is built on 16 inch centers and also, i plan to put blocking on this wall. partly because i want this wall to be really strong, and partly because the door will be really heavy and i think the blocking will help solidify everything. also i'm going to be attaching cabinetry to the outside of this wall so i need it to be very strong!! (EDIT: i guess a good reason to get those 1/4" tapcon screws :oops: ) of course who knows if this wall will really have to bear any load, but i did notice that the 2x10 that is nailed to the truss has a huge knot right in the center bottom, with a huge crack that goes in at least a couple of inches. and current measurements of this truss assembly do show some deflection already. so, making this wall extra strong can't hurt. i decided to separate the bottom plates at the seam in the concrete to ensure that the slightly higher slab doesn't take all of the load. this design should make it so each slab gets its fair share. why did i use a PT board for the top plate? because i screwed up and did not buy a normal 2x4x10, and PT one i bought for the other side's sole plate was all i had handy. well enough rambling. here are the pix. and the "plan" for this wall. the left side is what you see completed in the pic. (next post)

and the plan .... 36 inch door planned, easier to get the piano in there. i haven't told my wife of my plan to put the piano in there, but naturally that's where it should go, so i can put it in my music :D :D ... duh!

Hey Dan progress must feel good huh? I've been using the 1/4 or bigger tapcon screws for anything that will take any sort of weight in my house. I've never built a wall all bymyself but... In your wallplan.gif, that's a rough layout right? You've got the door header next to, not on top of trimmer studs and you've shown no cripple studs above header. Hears a link to a wall framing pdf I've been using. http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding ... bh0021.asp There's a door on pg 68 of the PDF. I bought me steel toe shoes from W^\\-M^&T today, @ $25 a disposable price. :lol: Marc

hehe, i was just kidding about the walmart thing ... i think Keith is still mad at me over that ... he is the official walmart greeter of this site after all :D :D Keith? Are you listening? i didn't mean it :( ok, 1/4 inch size it is for the bottom plates :oops: thanks for the reality check. the 3/16 seemed pretty stout in the store (and 3/16 SOUNDS thick doesn't it?? -- marketing hype), but then when i felt how much they twist in practice, i was unimpressed. sorry if my drawing is confusing, that purple-ish rectangle is supposed to be the header ... it rests on top of two studs (trimmer studs right?). the king studs would be the ones next to the header. do i have this right? i should post a more detailed close up of this, this one is a little small to see detail. i was planning to use 2x material plus a plywood spacer to make the header. i guess it only has to be 4 inches deep but i was going to make it a little deeper, rather than use cripples above it ... seems easier. any reason not to do this? there's no cripple studs because the header fills up all the available space between the door frame and the double top plate. does this make sense? yes progress does feel good, i keep going out to the garage to bask in the glow that half-wall is giving off :P and thanks for that pdf, it is cool :)

Dan, I'm not an expert on tapcon, I've just screwed enough of them up to have an opinion... bigger is better. You made a comment previously about constuction experience, so I thought I mention about the door frame. It all makes sence to me. Now that I know your color coding it's a really well built looking frame. You even got the right names of studs to maybe impress your wife? :lol: Progress, I've doing pre-construction work 8) , blown my budget :twisted: and started my construction thread :arrow: . It's kinda long. Hope it's an easy read. Marc

No problem at all, Dan! 8) You'd have to work really hard to offend me. --Keith :mrgreen: ...and now, a word from our sponsor... http://www.walmart.com/i/if/logo_always.gif (I don't get mad -- I get even! :twisted: hee hee :lol:) P.S.: I've scaled back my activity on the board, particularly on new threads, due to time constraints... But I am staying tuned to several long-term ones, especially including yours. 8)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just thought I'd add a few thoughts: Your header over door - using a larger than necessary header to avoid cripples is a typical construction technique. Also, if the wall is only a partition wall, i.e. not load bearing, you don't need a header at all. The purpose of the header is to bridge the gap (door opening) and transfer the load from above to the foundation. No load- no structural header required, although you might want to double the top 2x4 for more nailing area for trim and drywall. :D Anchoring walls to foundation - Best = cast-in-place anchor bolts, next best = epoxy grouted anchor bolts, next best = expansion anchor bolts, next best = Tapcon bolts (no offense Marc). I've used all the above plus the powder acuated fastners (PAF's). Here's an issue I've dealt with: new concrete (< 1 year or so) is relatively easy to drill or shoot into. You could get by with a standard hammer drill or PAF's. When the concrete is old, 30 years for example, it doesn't accept the PAF's well, even with the red loads, and drilling it with a hammer drill is an exersize in futility. My recommendations: After you stand the walls, rent a rotary hammer (heavy-duty hammer drill) from HD for $35 (4 hours) and use 1/2" expansion anchors at 4' centers. Epoxy anchors are stronger when exposed to uplift, but in shear the exp anchors are more than adequate, especially in a load bearing wall. (If you want epoxy anchors HD sells them in the Simpson joist hanger section.) Definitely use a rotary hammer like Marc described (pic below). I've drilled thousands of holes with 'em and they're the only way to go. I tried using Tapcons and half the time they twisted in half and snapped before they were seated. They're great in brick and probably cinder blocks, I i've had no luck in old concrete. :evil:

Ah there you are Keith! Always low prices, man! :) :) :) Thank you Don! That is super helpful. I was thinking about ditching the tapcons, they are so expensive ($14 for a box of 75), vesus buying a few conventional anchored bolts. One weird thing about my construction, is that while the truss assembly is holding up fine right now, if im reasoning correctly i'm about to put another 1000 or so pounds of load on it (half my new ceiling's weight), so i wonder whether this will cause my new wall to become load bearing ... that is why i'm treating it AS IF it is a load bearing wall. maybe 1000 or so pounds isn't a lot in the big scheme of things, but considering some of the shoddy construction i've seen in my garage i figured why not just do it that way. that's why the header over the door, etc. hope that makes sense. better safe than sorry eh? i haven't had any problem drilling my 40 year old concrete, but of course i've been using very small bit so far, only about 1/8 inch. so thicker may be more difficult. also the ryobi drill i bought was only $60 so if it lasts more than 8 hours it will pay for itself versus the HD rental :lol: ... if the ryobi fails me i'll be sure and let everyone know. it certianly isn't as heavy duty as the one you pictured. :) Dan