FINISHED IN 2020! Sharward's Partial Garage Conversion

Well, I'm really getting ready to do the exterior wall beef-up. I spent yesterday cleaning up (wow, ripping down 20 linear feet of 10 foot high drywall sure makes a powdery mess!), and I spent today "tetrising" the stuff in the garage to clear the way for a sheet rack, which I fashioned out of an old dining room table, and 4x8 sheet of plywood and some 2x4s left over from the dismantled scary overhead storage cubby the previous owner put in the tandem area of the garage. (I knew that lumber would come in handy one of these days! 8)) The sheet rack will allow me to use a circular saw to rip 4x8s lengthwise, which I will need to use as my first layer of beef-up material on the outer leaf exterior wall... And the two outer leaf interior walls too. I should probably admit here that not only am I afraid of heights, but I'm also afraid of power tools! :roll: Well, not "afraid," as much as "having a healthy respect for." I don't want to have to play drums Rick Allen style... :shock: I'm not sure how long I'll be able to get away with storing both our cars in the garage while construction is underway, but I'll be trying my best to do so. It's part of my commitment to Woman (paying homage to Sir Woodlock there ;)) not to evict her Saturn from its designated overnight parking space until and unless absolutely necessary. Ah, and y'all can finally see my new RX-8. 8) There are four 2x4s that are attached to the 4x8 plywood sheet with screws from the bottom. The other pieces of lumber are just sitting on the table and may be useful later. Currently the sheet rack is not attached to the table at all -- it can slide around a bit. I may decide to screw it into the table -- that is, if I intend to ruin the dining room table (that I don't really care about anyway).

sharward wrote:

Ah, and y'all can finally see my new RX-8. 8)

Nice car! It looks like you're ready to get going.

I'm going to have to cleat in some OSB as my first beef-up layer

What are cleats? Are they big staples? Looks like a good plan for cutting the sheetrock. Make sure it's nicely ventilated. Good luck. Frank

Hi Frank, Welcome to my insane thread! :roll:

bondsong wrote:

I'm going to have to cleat in some OSB as my first beef-up layer

What are cleats? Are they big staples?

See this thread for a discussion and photos of the concept of "beefing up" an outer leaf using drywall between studs or joists. The cleats are 1x2s screwed into the studs or joists to hold the drywall firmly against the inner surface of the outer leaf. Usually glue is also used on the face of the material -- the cleats are insurance against adhesive failure.

Looks like a good plan for cutting the sheetrock.

Actually, the sheet rack is for ripping OSB -- I don't plan to cut the gypsum panels with a circular saw. In my case, my first beef-up layer will be OSB -- subsequent layers will be gypsum wallboard (i.e. Sheetrock). This way I can screw the gypsum directly into the OSB, thereby avoiding the need to have multiple layers of cleats.

Make sure it's nicely ventilated.

Not sure what you mean by "it." The garage while I'm working? The finished space? The gap between the leaves?

Not sure what you mean by "it."

I meant the garage because I thought you were going to cut the gyproc with the saw. I actually tried it once. Thanks for the link. I'm getting ready to do this step and I hadn't seen that thread yet. Frank

i'd rarely use any kind of saw on gypsum. in case anybody doesn't know, it can be cut cleanly and relatively dust free using only a utility knife. cut the paper (make sure to cut VERY straight line), then the board can be easily snapped, even along the 8 foot length. then cut the paper in back. VOILA! of course this only works on straight cuts. by the way nice car!!

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

by the way nice car!!

Thanks -- I'm really enjoying it. I drove my previous cheap-o car for 12 years, so it was time! 8) I'm getting ready to seal and beef up my outer leaf, so I need to buy lots of sealant. The question I have is what kind I should buy, and how much. All along I had planned to get "acoustic sealant." I found (thanks to this thread) a source for OSI Pro-Series SC-175™ Acoustical Sound Sealant. Toolup.com is selling 29 ounce tubes for $2.97 each, plus shipping. Shipping isn't cheap though. Ground shipment per 12-unit case including shipping to Sacramento, California, are:

• 1 case: $35.64 + $14.73 shipping = $50.37 ($4.20/ea.)
• 2 cases: $71.28 + $42.60 shipping = $113.88 ($4.74/ea.)
• 3 cases: $106.92 + $61.83 shipping = $168.75 ($4.69/ea.)
• 3½ cases: $124.74 + $70.73 shipping = 195.47 ($4.65/ea.)
• 4 cases: No shipping quote available on-line

Very strange how the smaller quantity is actually cheaper to ship per tube than the larger quantities... :? There's something screwy about that. Anyway, before I buy the stuff, I would like to know:

• Is this the stuff I should buy? or...
• Should I get silicone sealant like Sir Woodlock used?

Keep in mind that, in theory, I have no resilient surfaces in my project -- everything is firmly attached. (The only exception is that I'm going to pour an isolated slab.) For that reason I'm wondering if I could or should get away with less pliable stuff... :roll: Before I buy anything, though, I'll check with AMS here in town to see what they have, what they can order, or what they can get shipped from another location. (Hopefully they have more than the less-than-stellar Miracle SCS-100 Sound-Control Sealant got from them a couple of weeks ago... :roll: Hmmm. I just read in this thread that Jeff Szymanski (the Auralex guy) recommends USG's Acoustical Sealant... To Sir Woodlock! :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

I was going to get USG as well. I know you can buy it in the bay, and Ive got the info somewhere, if you still need it ill find it . Im probably going to get some this week, maybe I can pick it up 4 u. What should i use for "sill seal". Is that the brand? Nice car, has it eaten any cell phones lately?

AMS stocks USG. unfortunately even though i had called to check, they had run out by the time i got there. next time, i'll buy over the phone, then pick up. i wouldn't consider shipping this stuff, it's too heavy. are you really going to pay more than the price of one case to ship two cases? i don't think so! i'm not sure about your reasoning regarding your caulk needs. i think that your caulk needs to withstand the stresses that are going to be put on all of your joints, mostly i would think from stuctural settling. in my mind it's not a question of decoupling. in my current house and my previous house i had cracks in walls, from settlement, all over the house. the hope is that the caulked joints will absorb some of these stresses so that doesn't happen in the studio. using good caulk, and using backer rod, are important for healthy joints that don't give out. see here for why backer rod is a good thing: http://www.loghelp.com/info/brodtips.html the fact that you live on clay makes this more important. clay causes a lot of heaving and settling with changing water content. it will also be important for the long term health of your studio to make sure your drainage in that area of your garage is bulletproof. i've been considering having some of those gutters with tops on them around my garage area, as i have a tree that regularly clogs up my downspouts. (does anybody know if they really work?) alex t tells me he used six cases of caulk in his project (so far). he has two rooms. but his rooms together are about the same size as your one room. if that helps. dan p.s. nice bullet points :)

mikeklooster wrote:

What should i use for "sill seal". Is that the brand?

i know owens corning makes one: http://www.owenscorning.com/around/insu ... msealr.asp

Thanks guys -- I'll see if I can get my hands on five cases of the USG stuff at AMS tomorrow! :)

I've been using the LePage bulldog grip Acousti-Seal. It's kindof nasty to work with, as it never truly cures (a good thing in an acoustic seal I suppose), and if you drop it on something accidentally it's a real pain to get out (My recomendation is VarSol...have a bottle and some rags handy, pick up anything you drop right away as it just manages to find its way onto your shoes and then all over the house in a matter of minutes). I've been paying under $3.00 CAD (maybe $2.50 USD) for a std small size tube....and, my local Home Depot stocks it. I can totally see the need for backer rod though, since the sealant is not like normal calk in that it has no real stiffness of its own, and needs to be held on all sides (i.e. you can't 'span' gaps with it). Cheers, Kris

drfrankencopter wrote:

I've been using the LePage bulldog grip Acousti-Seal. . .

:shock: Ack!! :shock: You have my condolences, Kris... Apparently you missed this important thread that strongly advises against using the LePage product!! :?

Thanks for the condolences.....its actually not that bad. You just need to know where it's going to work, and where it's not. When the gaps are small it works great, and if you can apply it with steady pressure and velocity, you can lay a very nice bead of it. I didn't run into the same set of problems that the poster of the thread you linked had....but I didn't just load it on, I kept the thickness to a minimum. I'm not going to be using this stuff on my ceiling since that's a trickier job, that's for sure, but I've been getting pretty good at applying the LePage product over small gaps. How is USG to work with? Maybe that's a good choice for my ceiling install. Cheers, Kris

drfrankencopter wrote:

I've been paying under $3.00 CAD (maybe $2.50 USD) for a std small size tube....and, my local Home Depot stocks it

well not only does it sound like a pain to work with, that's also pretty expensive for a small size tube. you should be able to get a large 29 oz tube for about that price. that's about 3 times as much volume as a small 10oz tube. not to mention triple the tube changing work. mircacle, although it does shrink and leave the occasional void if you put it on too thick, is a pleasure to work with, i paid about 36 bucks for a case of 12 29 oz tubes. doesn't smell, easy to clean up. dries to a translucent white rubbery surface within a day. haven't tried the usg, cuz i haven't run out of my first tube of miracle yet :P

where do you get that foamsealR stuff, Ive had no lacal luck so far, checking around How do you calculate how much caulk you need?

Mike, this is the stuff you're looking for. Now that you have the specs, it should be easier to locate. I stopped by AMS today to inquire on the availability of the USG acoustical sealant. They say they don't stock it. However, they did have a lot of the OSI Pro-Series SC-175™ Acoustical Sound Sealant in 28 ounce tubes, so I bought five cases (60 tubes) at $4.081 each + 7¾% sales tax + ½% fuel charge = $4.42 each. (Their cost is about $3.58, so that's pretty cheap!) I also bought a "big gun." :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

Dan, who makes this 'miracle' stuff? And where do you find it? Sharward, about how much is a big gun? Might be worthwhile, as the big tubes end up costing less in the long run.... Cheers, Kris

drfrankencopter wrote:

. . . who makes this 'miracle' stuff? And where do you find it? . . .

See Stick's experience with the Miracle stuff (including specs).

. . . about how much is a big gun?

AMS sold me mine for $12.13 + 7¾% sales tax + ½% fuel charge = $13.13. Edit: I corrected the price. I had written $18.18 in error. Edit again on 9/10/2005: I saw a "big gun" at Home Depot yesterday for about $8 plus tax. I think it was of poorer quality though.

Might be worthwhile, as the big tubes end up costing less in the long run....

Totally. Since you use so much of it, it makes sense to economize. --Keith :mrgreen:

Where is this AMS keith in Sac. Ive got to get some caulk, and theres none in stockton, Ive found. I think a while back it was concord and like san mateo, but sacs closer..

And where are your pics Kieth, Like you ragged on dan in his thread for not having enough pics awhile back. I'm gonna bust ya for the same thing LOL

:lol: You know, what's funny Doni is that I was literally just wondering where you've been! Besides, during your "five day vacation from the board," you missed my groundbreaking! :P

You know how it is when life kinda takes over for a few days. I do have news though I now have my new Jeep Cherokee. Now I'm just trying to get caught back up again financially. That should happen by next week. And again congrats on FINALLY :!: being able to get started on your practice studio. Am very much anticipating your framing questions when you get to that phase.

DreaminDrumBeats wrote:

. . . I now have my new Jeep Cherokee.

Awesome! If you were just a bit closer, I'd be asking to borrow it for many Home Depot trips! :lol: Actually, a friend of mine who just bought a new truck (with much buying advice from me -- I saved him bundles of cash :twisted:) will be helping me with a Home Depot trip tomorrow morning. I went to HD yesterday price and availability check some items, such as 4x8 sheets of 7/16" OSB (about US$13) and 10' lengths of 1x2 (<US$3) for my first layer of beef-up. I also picked up some miscellaneous supplies (such as this Liquid Nails product that I'll use to help hold up my OSB, along with the cleats of course), and tools (like this wonderful snap-off cartridge knife). Today I'll be sealing up all of the edges of my east wall. The gaps are so wide in some places along the sill plate that I can actually see :shock: daylight :shock:! :roll:

And again congrats on FINALLY :!: being able to get started on your practice studio. Am very much anticipating your framing questions when you get to that phase.

Thanks for that, Doni. Just having you around makes me much more confident in that aspect of the project! 8) :?: Dan, I'm going to buy backer rod from your supplier today. Which one should I get? I'll be using 5/8" gypsum panels on 7/16" OSB. I'm debating between Closed Cell and Dual Rod in 3/8" diameter. 3/8" seems like a good size for use around 5/8" and 7/16" stuff, right? The Dual Rod material seems more forgiving, although it is much more expensive (67% more :shock:). :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

I have been following [url=http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=1886[/url]this great thread on StudioTips.com[/url] that challenges the notion that it is necessary to have multiple layers of redundant seals in an assembly, and has some very interesting lab test results that suggest it's less necessary than we thought. Of course seals are important -- but I'm at the point where I need to determine what level of care/time/expense I need to spend on my exterior leaf beef-up. I need to determine whether it is necesary for me to use acoustic sealant (and, backer rod) in areas where air cannot escape anyway. I orginally saw the purpose of the sealant as a way of maintaining consistent levels of mass across the entire wall -- i.e., no series of 1/4" to 3/8" cracks that would add up to about 140 aggregate square inches of gap on the sides of the existing studs. :?: Can avoid the hassle of sealing these gaps and be confident that I'm not sacrificing TL on a noticable level, especially on the low end? I just posted this question on that thread -- it will be interesting to see what the responses are. And of course, I welcome your thoughts here too! 8) --Keith :mrgreen: