Been busy this weekend, few new pics for ya, along with the torn ceiling. If anyone has any opinions on how to deal with this, it would be a pleasure to hear :wink: , hope everyone is well - Ian
Have you considered building up into the attic space? By that I mean building a new ceiling 18" down from the existing roof and leaving the trusses exposed? You could trim the trusses with wood, paint, etc. Then you could have an enormous area above the soft ceiling for bass trapping, angled slat resonators, etc. Seems a shame to not use all that space. Just a thought.
Have you considered building up into the attic space? By that I mean building a new ceiling 18" down from the existing roof and leaving the trusses exposed? You could trim the trusses with wood, paint, etc. Then you could have an enormous area above the soft ceiling for bass trapping, angled slat resonators, etc. Seems a shame to not use all that space. Just a thought.
I did in fact think of that for the live area, but I'm unsure how I could get it to work, since my live rooms is a U shape. As for the other rooms, I don't believe it would be possible since they are closer to the edges of the outer structure, and the roof needs to stay vented right at 8'10"
If the moisture is an existing issue in the slab he would have known by now:) But the potential for existing moisture in the sand was the reasoning behind my thought that it should have a barrier between the sand and the plywood.
There is no moisture issues with the slab, floor, etc... Oddly enough its dry as a bone. The structure was built specifically with this in mind. When we tore up the wooden floor, there were no signs of any water in the concrete & wood, so I'de think I can get by with X's recommendation, if not I can always ditch the sand and fill the whole damn thing will silica beads hahaha :lol:
Heck if you do it like it will most likely require, it's going to be like a bag full of sand anyway right?
You have to have some type of thin inner skin to contain the sand from pouring out of the bottom :)
Good luck,
Brien
I mean I can caulk all the gaps, but it would be more reasonable to do as you suggest and have some type of seal or barrier or it's just gonna get too messy, like a day at the beach
Hola Amigos, I haven't had much of an opportunity to get anymore work done this past week. I thank you John and Stuart and others who where kind enough to keep my family in their thoughts, and it was ever so much appreciated, but unfortunately this past Weds. night my grandfather passed. My father was by his side, and he was trying ever so hard to hold on and wait for his 3 other sons and only daughter to arrive. He was a great man, who loved his children, and grandchildren, and great grand children so much as well as his devoted wife, and served his country in the US Navy, the same country which had put him in his feeble condition in his last days, do to the horrendous agent orange they sprayed in Vietnam. 77 years young, he never complained once about his ordeal. I will forever remember him as a man of strength, courage, kindness, and love. I urge you all to remember your fathers and their father's before them, and let them truly know how you feel, because the smallest amount of regret will never equal the smallest amount of opportunity.
I thank you all for letting me write a few words here.
I have been messing around a little bit with sketchup and a model design for a desk I might be constructing and how it will fit into my CR, so I thought I'd post a couple pics of my idea, lemme know what you guys think
I just don't know what to say, Ian. I imagine that you and your family must be devastated by this sudden tragedy. My deepest, most sincere condolences to you. I don't even know you, but you will be in my thoughts and prayers. My father died last year, so what you are going through is still fresh in my memory. I don't know if you and your family are religious or not, but I'll be praying for you and your family, for a sense of God's peace and comfort in the midst of your mourning.
A few posts back you said: "So this build will definitely be dedicated to my grandfather - Commander Donald McKay Wilford". Might I respectfully suggest that this would be a fitting time to re-name your build thread, in honor of your grandfather, perhaps along the lines of "The Commander McKay Studio for the New England area", or something similar.
- Stuart -
darn.... sorry to hear about your Grandfather passing away.
I know exactly how you feel, mine passed away just last night (being hospitalized for a few weeks earlier after having a stroke)
Keep it up.
Stuart - I'm very sorry to hear of your father, I'm sure it doesn't get any easier with time, just a bit more bearable. As you and I share our religion, and I pray that your father did as well - I hope that you may rest easier knowing that your father's faith has put him with God in heaven. It has been difficult for my family and I because we knew that my grandfather rejected religion, but somehow I hope that without our knowing, he came to find the Lord. I thank you again for your thoughts and your prayers, and will do the same for you and yours.
Ro - I'm so sorry to hear of your loss as well. It looks as both of us are sharing the same tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with your family. I cannot stress how important it is to keep your love ones close by at this time. I am sure that he knew how much he was loved, which helps quite a bit. Stay strong, and know that I am thinking of you and your loved ones.
Hey everyone, I've been getting close (I hope) to a ceiling design for my build. I'll give you a quick rundown.
The structured engineered ceiling (existing) is made with 2x4 rafters, 16 on center I believe. My new rooms' ceiling will most likely be 2x8 or 2x10 on top of the new stud frames. This will allow me to place my inner room rafters (I don't believe that is exactly the right word) in between the spacing of the old ones. For insulation I will use R13 for both, which will also give me a air space, although the 2x8's or 2x10 rafters would be touching the insulation from the upper 2x4 rafters, but I don't know if this would couple them. For the mass, the top of the old rafters will be MDF. Wow I don't think I explained that very good at all. Here's some pics to help -
Sounds like a plan! I know that you already realize that you'll have some sort of three-leaf effect from the roof deck, and that you are prepared to live with it, but I just noticed that your roof is pretty steeply angled, which puts it always a long way away from the outer leaf MDF, so I reckon any three-leaf effects will be minimal. (Finally, some good news! )
although the 2x8's or 2x10 rafters would be touching the insulation from the upper 2x4 rafters, but I don't know if this would couple them.
Not a problem. It won't couple, since the insulation doesn't have enough mass to do that very well, and in any case it is "fluffy", so it doesn't couple well to start with. Unless you really stuff it in there very tightly, of course, in which case it will couple to some extent. But if you just place it on top of the lower joists, thick enough so that it only just touches the underside of the MDF, then you should be fine. In fact, it doesn't even need to touch the MDF above: If it is resting on the lower joists, then you could choose a thickness that would leave it just shy of the MDF. EG, if you have a 3 1/2 inch gap (between the bottom of the MDF and the top of the lower joists), then use 3 inches of insulation, leaving a 1/2 inch air gap above (between insulation and MDF). That will work fine. That's not really necessary, but if you are concerned about even slight flanking, then you could do that. It will probably sag away from the MFD slightly over time anyway, so you'll end up with the same effect naturally.
A couple of questions that you might not have considered:
How are you going to seal the edge of the MDF, which is your outer leaf for the ceiling, to the outer leaf for the walls? There isn't much space for you to get your hands and caulking guns in there, at the eaves, either from inside or from outside. Do you have a plan for that?
Will just one layer of MDF for the outer leaf ceiling be enough? I seem to recall that you said you wanted to match the ceiling construction to the wall construction, for consistency, and I'm betting that your outer leaf wall has more than just one layer of MDF! :) Also, if any joint on that MDF fails, then your entire ceiling fails. If you add another layer on top (either more MDF, or maybe drywall), then you can stagger the joints so that a single failure in a joint won't kill your entire room.
- Stuart -
Thanks for the response Stuart, you have made me realize quite a few things and it looks like I'm rethinking this one again
I know that you already realize that you'll have some sort of three-leaf effect from the roof deck
Thats a definite, not much I can do here especially since the structural engineer designed everything to work with 2x4's and trusses
How are you going to seal the edge of the MDF, which is your outer leaf for the ceiling, to the outer leaf for the walls? There isn't much space for you to get your hands and caulking guns in there, at the eaves, either from inside or from outside. Do you have a plan for that?
Yep no plan for that haha so it looks like everything needs to be done from the underside
Will just one layer of MDF for the outer leaf ceiling be enough? I seem to recall that you said you wanted to match the ceiling construction to the wall construction, for consistency, and I'm betting that your outer leaf wall has more than just one layer of MDF!
I am willing to bet that my outer leaf may be my weak point, on 2x6 studs with insulate, the outer mass is made up of 5/8" ply, tyvec, and cape sheathing boards. There is some exterior that needs a little work aesthetically, so that might be a good opportunity to beef up the outer layer. Now, after finding that out, I don't need to go overboard on the ceiling, but obviously it needs to stay air tight and work for me.
To be able to caulk the drywall (I think I'm gonna rule out the MDF), I will first build short 2x4 studs and place them on end across, in front of my roof vents so as not to disturb the airflow, with an airtight seal. I can then place the Drywall directly on top of my existing 2x4 rafters and stud in front of the vents so i will be able to caulk feasibly from the underside ( that sounded kind dirty huh?) Then proceed with the insulation, inner leaf ceiling, and inner leaf drywall. UGGG, I hate the ceiling, have a look at this one.
I like the idea of MDF better. It is much more dense than drywall and if you add support for the ends of the sheets you could walk on it if need be. It is harder to work with though. I think your design looks good.
You show a band board on the outer edge of your "outer leaf ceiling". That probably won't be possible because I assume that the ceiling joists extend out to meet the rafters? If that's the case install blocking in between each joist to seal your outer leaf.
Yea, I was out cutting to fit the band boards in this morning and then I thought to myself, there's still a friggin gap to the vents from here, hahah, so yea, looks to me like ill need blocking or something to seal the rest of the outer leaf. Thanks for keeping me in line tho Stunt
I like the idea of MDF better. It is much more dense than drywall a
Actually, that's not true. MDF is less dense than gypsum board. To be more exact, MDF is around 700 to 800 kg/m3, and drywall varies a bit more, but starts around 800 kg/m3, goes up to about 1,200 kg/m3, as far as I can tell. Although it seems that most drywall these days is closer to the low end of the scale, around 800, which is similar to MDF. But MDF is not denser than drywall. HDF is more dense (at around 900 kg/m3), but not MDF.
In any event, in most places drywall is cheaper per kilogram than than MDF, which makes it more attractive as a studio construction material.
However, I sure do agree with you that MDF does make more sense in this case, as you pointed out, since you can walk on it. I can tell you from personal experience (the fist time I tried installing drywall on a ceiling, many many years ago), that trying to walk on top of a drywall ceiling is not a good idea.... :)
- Stuart -
For the mass, the top of the old rafters will be MDF.-
That is a good idea, but you are talking about joists ,correct?
The reason you want to do this is because the opportunity for injury alone increases when you are in an attic trying to lay material down that you are not supposed to be standing on.
Nevermind the numbers. You could install sheetrock over the top of the mdf after it is installed, if you need more isolation, but I wouldn't want to attempt to lay sheetrock on top of joists with nothing to support you in the present or somewhere in the future.
Thanks for the concern Brien, That was pretty much the first thing I thought of when I was thinking about installing it on top of the joists. I'm going to make a temporary movable platform which will allow me to work comfortably up there without fear of loosing a step and breaking my neck. I'll most likely make this out of MDF or some other rigid strong wood sheets. Now my new issue is that MDF around here tends to run 15 USD for a sheet of 3'x8' - covering 900 square feet, that will run me 550. That seems a bit steep to me, not to mention a pain in the ass to lug through the joists, and the other issue is that I don't believe that my ceiling joists can support that weight, nor do I wanna test that theory. I can try to find the structural engineer who designed the trusses but, even if I can, the ceiling uses 2x4's :shock: This is why I'm leaning toward two layers of sheetrock. Any Ideas?
Hello friends, haven't posted much for a lil bit here so I wanted to fill you in on how I am running my ceiling.
Basically at the eaves I created a brace/blocking to allow me to get an air tight seal for my outer leaf to be able to attach the mass directly on the rafters themselves, while still allowing for air flow to come from underneath and return into the sealed off crawlspace. Yes it is a 3 leaf, im willing to accept it, but as Stuart pointed out, it doesn't look like I'll be losing a great deal of isolation since the ceiling angles up.
I also was wondering about caulking my sills. I started practicing my caulking skills, using a cement-wood caulk from GE. I keeps its elasticity well, and I have had no issues of it cracking at all whatsoever. If I am caulking my sills to the concrete floor, should I be using a legit acoustic caulk? I figured since the when it came time for the actual floor to be installed, I would be using acoustic caulking between the base of my drywall and the floor?
Oh and one more thing I am wondering about too. My entire existing slab seems to purposely cracked/ separated before the concrete base of the outside inner walls - maybe 1/8." Is this a blessing, giving me extra decoupleness(????) from the slab to the wall, or a curse, for the structure of the building?
Thanks everyone - Ian
Pics 1) my sketchup for my bracing/blocking using a 2x4 to a 2x6, held by 2x4 planks bolted to underneath the rafters
2) my blocking caulked and in line
3 + 4) just and example showing OSB laid on top of the outer leaf rafter which would be caulked and drywall layed on top, then the 2x8 for the inner leaf rafter which will have 2 layers of drywall attached to the bottom. R13 will be used for the 2x4 gaps, and R19 for the 2x8 gaps, still allowing for space in between. Is there anything I can use to suspend the insulation from the bottom of the OSB? I know about that metal wiring but, Im sure there might be something better in case the wiring ever fell.
5) Top view of the OSB laid on
