Studio Design for New England area

I just figured that I would the wall would need to carry in order for there to be mass on the outer leaf,

??? Not sure what that part meant! I think you skipped a couple of words??? :) Just to avoid confusion: You still need MASS in the outer leaf (and the inner leaf too!). That doesn't change. The only thing I was talking about changing there is the ANGLE of the wall, so that one end of that leaf is further away from the second leaf, than the other end is. (If that makes sense!). - Stuart -

Oh I completely understood what you meant Stuart, I know that both leafs need mass, I just thought they had to parallel in order for isolation to be effective. But what I was thinking of doing, which you verified ( I believe) was cutting off that angle so it's not so small which will also make it easier to treat, as long as I keep the mass there :wink:

Few more pictures from what I have been able to get done this past week. Floor is pretty much gone. Control room framed, drum booth almost framed, more destruction, and rippin on some vapor barrier. Have a look PS - probably a good to to move this to the construction thread :)

Hi, Great work! I might have missed it earlier but, what size ceiling joist are you going to use?

Hey Lil, thanks for the comp :D

I might have missed it earlier but, what size ceiling joist are you going to use?

No you didn't miss it, i decided recently to go with 4x4 ceiling joists, hows your build coming?

Great i've finished 2 frames, by hand! and the 16mm plasterboard is arriving tomorrow. It's a long weekend here so I'm hoping to get alot done. But I don't have a camera atm :oops:

By hand?!! That's pretty hardcore nowadays!!! Does your phone have a camera on it?

I might have missed it earlier but, what size ceiling joist are you going to use?

No you didn't miss it, i decided recently to go with 4x4 ceiling joists

Some of your spans are going to be 14-15'. That puts you more in the ballpark of a 2x8 or 2x10. Also I don't see proper headers above your doors or windows. Your walls should have double top plates because it won't be possible to set your joists directly over studs as the room isn't a rectangle.

Some of your spans are going to be 14-15'. That puts you more in the ballpark of a 2x8 or 2x10.

Im trying to save some ceiling height, an 8 or 10 would put me well below 8', and shouldn't provide any sag, plus I'll prob use strapping.

Also I don't see proper headers above your doors or windows.

:shock: really? I though I had the cripples, and jacks right. What did I do wrong??

Remember, you aren't framing simple interior partitions. All of your walls will be bearing the load of the ceiling structure. A single flat 2x4 above a door isn't going to cut it. At a minimum I think a header made of two 2x6s sandwiching some 1/2" plywood would be in order. It would stand upright like a joist. The window opening would be at least a 2x8 sandwich, probably 2x10s. Your jack and cripple studs are fine. Don't get discouraged, all of this can be fixed. As far as your ceiling joists, look at this table: http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/cal ... ontal+Span

NativeLuv17 wrote:

Also I don't see proper headers above your doors or windows.

:shock: really? I though I had the cripples, and jacks right. What did I do wrong??

The Southern Pine Span Tables reads that No. 2, 2X4 with a 12 inch layout would at least get you in the neighborhood of 12 feet worth of span, from outside to outside of walls. Drywall ceiling, no attic space, 10 psf live and >>> 5<<< psf dead load. 2X6 would be far better. Using the same 12 inch layout you would get a span of 15'-6" with an increased 10 psf deadload. A 16 inch layout would shorten your span to 13'-6" same load. Your headers will be OK as this isn't going to have to withstand any wind or loading due to natural elements. But if you had it to do again, a larger header adds mass and directly effects the lateral stability of the wall.

I kinda figured it out after my last post, but your explanation makes it a lot more clearer, I can't believe I missed that whole issue, thanks a bunch for pointing that out to me :)

Thanks for the addition X, I'm gonna go ahead and replace those headers

One more thing X, since I know your a construction guy, do you think those 4x4's will work in my situation? I'm trying to keep as much height as possible. Is there another direction I should be going in?

What is your comfort level with the 2X4? Are you on the cusp of overloading them or will your spans be short enough to keep that warm and fuzzy feeling, for the rest of your life :)

xSpace wrote:

What is your comfort level with the 2X4? Are you on the cusp of overloading them or will your spans be short enough to keep that warm and fuzzy feeling, for the rest of your life :)

Call me stupid X, for I still am having issues understanding ceiling structures and such, but I'm unsure of what you mean?

Hope everyone is doing well as we finally are approaching spring!!! About time. I've been busy for the past week, demoing the rest of what needs to go, and hopefully this weekend reaching my final stage of the gutting, by pulling down my ceiling sheetrock. Since I am on the doorstep of this process, I have come up with a couple, simple sketchup ideas on which way to do the final ceiling. The sketches are pretty straight forward, and I'm looking for isolation with these pictures more than anything, so any comments on these, if ANY will even work, would be much appreciated. Pic 1 - A triple leaf most likely, with MDF over the entire rafter spacings, prior to the roof vents; M-Drywall, S-Insulate, Gap, Insulate M- MDF, S(?) Large Gap) M(?) Vented Roof Pic 2 - Extra Insulation rising over the roof vents, using the Roof as the outside leaf; M-Drywall, S-Insulate, Gap, Insulate, M-Roof This is a tough area for me, so I ask for your patience as I am still trying to understand how I can apply the second leaf to my ceiling. Thank you everyone for your time, and I look forward to some feedback -Ian

So I'm having trouble understanding how to determine dead loads. Is there a list of given psf loads for different materials, and is it possible to calculate them myself (weight of object(s) divided by total square footage of the structure - ceiling)? Anything hanging from the ceiling would create a dead load, correct? - clouds, tracking lights, etc.. If my new ceiling is completely decoupled from the existing, would anything create a live load? Thanks in advance - Ian :)

Wow already pushed down haha, lil bizzump

Dead loads are the loads of the materials that make up the structure and/or building components. Examples: Studs, ceiling joists - headers, sheathing (plywood - OSB - Drywall, etc.) Duckwork, fans, fan coil units, electrical within cavities or permanately mouted to wall/ceiling/floor, electrical lighting, plumbing pipe (waste and domestic hot water) sprinkler piping, etc., etc., etc. Live loads are things brought in after the room/space is complete. Examples: Furniture, gear, people walking around, etc., etc., etc. To calculate the ceiling you would take the entire weight of all of the ceiling components (including the ceiling joist) all plywod/drywall layers, any insulation, lighting, ductwork with registers/grilles, and divide those by the area of the ceiling for a total psf DL. Tis just that simple. Rod

Gotcha :wink: Thanks a bunch Mr. Gervais

Oops I forgot to ask though, If I am building a room within a room, already having an existing ceiling, would I just have to determine the dead load of the new inner leaf's ceiling? (lights, drywall, joists, etc..)

Been busy this weekend, few new pics for ya, along with the torn ceiling. If anyone has any opinions on how to deal with this, it would be a pleasure to hear :wink: , hope everyone is well - Ian

Seems that your next step is to do the math as Rod said a few posts up. Once you have that you can determine your joists. Then it is a matter of installation right?

Pix! Cool! So it really did happen! :) It's always nice to see progress on a build. Very encouraging! - Stuart -