Here's some actual pics, mind you, I have made mistakes, and must pull out a few framed walls, and tear up some floor, but no worries there. Most of the framing structure is just outer leaf as of now.
I know Lilith tends to use chickens, but I was thinking of going with this or baby seal for insulation
At least you don't have an axe non-too-subtly leaning against the wall behind your insulation! :)
Seriously, it's good to see framing going up! Nice space, too.
- Stuart -
I know Lilith tends to use chickens, but I was thinking of going with this or baby seal for insulation
At least you don't have an axe non-too-subtly leaning against the wall behind your insulation! :)
Haha actually the chainsaw was right in the control room :o i kid, i kid
Thanks though Stuart, Its good to hear from you, what do you think of my ratio issue?
Well, if you promise not to have the dog for lunch if the inspectors get there early.... .)
Actually, for non-rectangular rooms, I really wouldn't have a clue how to calculate the ratios. If it is roughly rectangular with just a couple of splayed walls then I've seen that you approximate ratios by take the average dimensions, but in your case with that diamond-shaped room, I really don't know how you would go about it.
I suspect that the math becomes rather complex for that kind of shape, but on the positive side I also suspect that your modes are going to be fairly well spread out, mainly because there are so many paths that a sound wave can take, and eve a slight variation in the angle is going to have a large variation in path length. So, without being able to tell you why, or even if I am on the right track, I'm guessing that your shape of room should not have too many issues with badly spaced modes. But once again, this is basically just me guessing out loud, and I have no literature or studies or math to back that up.
I'm wondering if Andre is around, as I'm sure that he could give you a much more solid grounded discussion as to how your room will behave.
Sorry to not be much help, but with that kind of shape, I'm totally out of my depth!
Apart from that, I like the design and layout! My only comment is that you seem to be wasting a bit of space in your "sound lock", but you do have plenty of space to waste!
- Stuart -
I thought she ate the inspectors for lunch... :)
Much appreciated Stuart, like I said, I have always valued your opinion. I was kind of along the same lines with you on wondering about modes but like you said, hopefully Andre will come through at some point. As for the space in the sound lock - I must have worked on that for a good three hours determining how I could enter the control room without disturbing the storage area, while making the sounds lock wide enough to have doors that were fully accessible. That goes without saying that the heater in the lobby area needs spacing around it, as well as a pathway to heat the interior. So as you can see, my brain became fried upon weighing all these elements out, but If you have another idea shoot it my way.
So I did a little work today pulling up some flooring and tearing down the previous framed walls we messed up on. What are your opinions on gluing or nailing some luan board to the concrete, and then gluing the cork tiling on that? Anyhow ran into a lovely issue in my dump spot (east entrance) which I did not notice the door swings in not out, so looks like that doors gotta come off when I get the dumpster. Here's some pics, last ones for you Stuart :lol:
Gulp! Ummmmm..... :!:
Lesseee, no chickens, no dog.... Gulp! So, do you think the inspector will understand what you mean when you invite him in "for lunch"??? :)
- Stuart -
So after a weekend dieting off power aid, breaking 2 sawzalls, and putting a nail through my thigh, I finally got the floor of the control room and drum booth pulled up - down to the concrete slab. So I'm laying out tape and chalk-lines for my inner leaf walls in both rooms, so I'm guessing my next step will be putting up wall frames. I do however have a couple questions before I continue, if someone would be so kind to give some input.
1) I have some small craters in my concrete from pulling nails and was thinking about filling em in, is this smart or a waste of time?
2) I'm keeping the original hardwood floor in the liveroom which is raised 3" off the concrete on a subfloor, since my control room will be built directly on the concrete, should I put some loose insulation under the floor near the edges of the shared leaf (inner to Live Room/ Outer to Control Room) to continue the mass? (See my last pic)
3) For the CR and drum booth floors I'm thinking about laying a few layers of polyethylene film for a moisture barrier and putting cork tiling right on top. My cousin deals with this type of flooring and said it has decent sound absorption as well, not to mention John S, likes it too. Am I on the right track with that?
Well here's the latest pics, and like always I'd love feedback and/or answers to my questions. :D
I've already gave my opinion on the raised wooden floor so I want revisit that ;) To answer should you add additional support under the gapped areas, yes, I would do that. I would do it if I was going to place any additional load on the top of the wall framing in order to prevent the potentail sag over time.
As to the pits and holes in the concrete from extraction, yes, I would also fill those.
Thanks and good luck,
Brien
:oops: Yea I still remember your opinion on the floor Brien, I feel ashamed, but I'm not able to tear the rest out so I have to make do with what I can do. Thanks for the good wishes, and please stop my any further if I'm really going in the wrong direction.
Thanks Ian
When you walk on it doesn't it already have a distinctive hollow sound?
Honestly, no. It's heavy as hell, i was surprised how much weight it it held in just small peices when i was tearing it up. I found it consists of the subfloor on the concrete, resting on those spaced, pressure treated 2x4's is floor sealed carpet, then 2 layers of 1/4 inch plywood, and then the wood flooring (which must be the denser of the materials). When you walk on it, it sounds solid to the core, and I'm not saying that to see if I can get away with this haha. But I do want to keep resonance down, so I was thinking of filling the gaps (16 oc) between the floorboard joists with insulation. I know this won't give me the best isolation, but do you think I might be able to get by with this?
Thank you for your time Brien, I always value you and Stuart's input.
Well looks like I found the answer to my own question. After reading some more of Rod's book, seems like there was a guy who ignored the advice and did exactly was I was hoping to accomplish. The insulation will not work at all in there, and apparently created issue between 200-4oo Hz which I cant afford to lose. So I am going to see if I can actually get the rest of this floor up, and maybe leave the rest on for the entry ways which shouldn't matter (I hope) because there will be no consequence if any sound vibration effects those areas especially If the live room will be on the concert slab. Am I going in the right direction now on this? Thanks for motivation through use of such few words Brien :wink:
Why don't you do what Rod suggested for the same guy? Replace the insulation with sand. Pretty massive... :?:
Well I understand it could benefit when laying conduits, and give me a little bit more isolation, but once the flooring is torn off it, I'd have to buy new floors to go over the subfloor. The floors and sand added to the cost of the demo, would not help me in the pocket so, Id rather just demo the floor myself, lay down tile which doesn't require the subfloor, and give myself 3 xtra inches of height :D . So basically I'd be saving a lot more just bringing it down to the concrete :)
People should have the choice to choose their direction. It isn't always the case that someone chooses the hard road when working on the builds you guys develop. But the hard road most often seems to be more beneficial.
I am a lot like any one here, just reading all the time trying to make sense of the seeming domino effect. You learn one thing and then another enters that topples over what you thought you had a good grasp on.
Difference is (if there really is one), I suppose, is that I work construction and see things everyday that are part of what goes on or gets my interest as to "why was that done in this manner".
So to you I say, thank YOU for giving me the space to say a few lines and for you being on the same road as I.
Brien
Very well put Brien, You must realize as well though, If it wasn't for you, Stuart, Andre, John, (and others I may have forgotten) people like myself might end up taking the shortcuts without seeing how devastating our projects may turn out be. I do not only depend on my readings and this forum but, the trials and words of my peers who have been where I am. There is so much to learn here, and my goal is not only to build my project correctly, but to help others in the future through my own experience with my studio. It's not always easy that's for sure, and neither is listening to a suggestion that will work, when you were hoping for a different answer. Anyhow, please excuse any of my stubbornness of past, or future, for I must remind myself that you all are just looking out for me :wink:
So I'm going to do some wall framing today, but a quick ceiling question first. I have an existing ceiling roughly 8' 6" above the concrete slab. behind the ceiling's 1 layer of drywall are the rafters with loose insulation, space, and then the outer structure. There are no rooms or anything above me, just crawl space. I don't believe I have the option of tearing the sheet rock off the ceiling. If I build with the box within a box method and create a second new ceiling 1" lower than the existing, resting on the framed walls, will there be much TL?? What are my options here??
Thank You
Sorry for the poor measurement my ceiling height WILL BE roughly a little over 8', due to the slab to the existing ceiling is a tad over 8'10". I've included a diagram of what the structure will look like IF I continue to build it using a box within a box. I notice after drawing it up it creates a triple leaf if I'm correct....
Outer Wall, Space, 2x6, Wood Board, GB, Space, 2x6, GB, GB.
What's a guy to do?? How can I maintain isolation thorough my ceiling, without coupling my rooms?
Should I not gap the 2 1/2, and instead fill that with mass to give me a double leaf? But then the walls are coupled through the ceiling. :cry:
I need some help please :(
Hello again everyone, I've been quite active doing more demo and wall framing, I hope to post some pictures once the 2 feet of snow is has finished accumulating :evil: I did however come across some questions that I haven't been able to find here on the forum, and again would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction or comment on my proposals. :D1)pic 1 - my adjacent drum booth/control room wall is set 12" apart between leafs. I assumed since I want MSM, my drum room leaf must run at least the same distance as the control room leaf, which leaves me with this extremely sharp angle. I realize I can treat this, but will there be any other acoustical problems I might run into dealing with a corner this deep?
2)pic 2 - My vocal booth is coupled to the live room completely, I figured I would design it this way because I tend to only do scratch track vocals with the band, and final vocals alone. I have been double thinking this because my concern was mostly do to noise being able not to escape, as opposed to external sounds getting in (more so frequencies is the right word). But after more research it seems fair to say that these most likely go hand in hand. I originally had the vocal booth built with 2x4's on 2x6's staggered. I want to be able to maximize my space in order to give me a larger live room, which is why I am uncertain of using double walls, not to mention i would have a thousand doors to buy for my studio :shock: If anyone can give me some advice on how I may be able to get around this issue, I would most appreciate it.
Hope everyone is well, and rockin' hard - Ian
I assumed since I want MSM, my drum room leaf must run at least the same distance as the control room leaf,
The walls don't have to be the same length, and don't even have to be parallel. What is important is the sealed air space, and de-coupling. So if you don't like that angle, you could change the angle of the wall marked 8'2" in your diagram, so that it is not parallel to the other wall. (In fact, increasing the gap between walls will IMPROVE isolation). The other thing you could do is to "chop that angle off" by building another small wall diagonally across that tight angle, so you will have 2 larger angles, both of which will be greater than 90 degrees, instead of one small angle which is less than 90.
- Stuart -
Oh man thanks for clearing that up Stuart, I knew that increasing the distance would be better for isolation, I just figured that I would the wall would need to carry in order for there to be mass on the outer leaf, but now I know that's not the case. Any suggestions on my vocal booth dilemma?
As always thank you Stuart - Ian
