Not much has changed since the pix on page 18 (only posted a couple weeks ago).
However, I have the second layer of drywall up on the CR ceiling on the front half of where the steel beam is.
Started laying out some chalk lines last night where the front angled walls will be. After I mapped it out, I'm in the holy S**t :shock: stage. The room just shrank like a mo fo...
I need to open up the cad files again, and see if I can make some adjustments. And the angles, although 60 degrees, just doesn't quite seem right. :?
Just finished my '03 taxes, so need to wait on the accountant to finish, approve, and get some $$$ back to finish this thing or really move forward.
Last year alone (not including this year), I've already spent $4700 on this project. Probably already another 3-4k this year so far (guessing).
Haven't even gotten to the expensive stuff yet!!! HVAC duct work quote was $1400. It'll cost about another 1k for flooring (just for CR and iso). All the doors (only-not seals) I figured total around $2500 (entire studio). Large glass window in iso room is about another $600. Still have 6 windows to put in for the CR area. Haven't quoted this yet. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... :shock: :? :shock: :roll:
Ahhhhhhhhhhh......................Does it ever end??? I want to get back to buying toys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And start mixing...
Floating floor over basement concrete. (Artifact Recording)
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 839.
Hi Aaron,
Thanks for the reply. Oops! I hadn't realized that it had only been a couple of weeks. Sorry. :oops:
Say, I was wondering about the "shrinkage" comment. I am in the planning stage of an addition to our house in which I could build a couple of rooms. I was HOPING for a room 19' x 16' x 10' inside.
How thick did your walls turn out to be? How many degrees are you splaying your side walls? And are your front walls going to be 60 degrees?(I was planning to do 30 degrees, but maybe I'm misunderstanding something here?) I may have to do some refiguring I think...
Thanks for sharing the numbers! It helps to give me an idea of what I'm in for. :shock:
Best Regards, :D
Individual Single wall w/ RC and 2 layers 5/8: 5 1/2" thick. Where the the double wall construction was between the CR & iso room, total thickness was 13".How thick did your walls turn out to be?
From the listening position, it's 60 degrees. Which is technically 30 degrees when building. When I started this project, materials were still affordable. But prices have doubled this past year, and it's killing me!! I'd be nearly done now if it wasn't for price increases in materials every day. Material cost here has gone up an average of 12-17% every month, and I mean, EVERY MONTH :twisted: :evil: :twisted: !!!How many degrees are you splaying your side walls? And are your front walls going to be 60 degrees?
Just thought I would drop in and give an update on the room.
I'M BROKE!!! And haven't gone any further since the ceiling was put up in the CR.
So, I've decided to resurrect the studio gear and assemble it in my living room, and get it up and running for the time being until funds are a little more readily available. Got the console moved in over the weekend, and hooked up. Now it's time for the rack gear... Phew. Sure is nice to see the ole gear again. :D It's been boxed up for over a year. :shock:
But, on the other hand, moving this gear upstairs, now empties the other half of the basement, therefore leaving it available for DEMOLITION. :twisted: Ahh...now I can start envisioning the tracking rooms. :D And what to do with the space.
I'll keep y'all posted.
Aaron
!'M BROKE!!!...... ........ So, I've decided to resurrect the studio gear Boy do I understand that one. :roll: I'm in the same position, and already started hooking up my stuff. I too have waited a year hoping things would look up at some point, but time's a wastin! Mine is basically for myself, so it won't bother me. After all, took 20 years to get to this point so I'm NOT WAITING ANY LONGER!! :twisted: :roll: :lol: Good luck to ya, and hope you can finish yours faster than I have. fitZ
OK, things are getting back on track.
I've purchased the hardwood flooring (laminate-Pergo (Red Oak)) for the iso booth. It was on sale the other day for $2.39 a SF. Bought some 2x6's & 2x4's for the front soffit wall construction (and I'm sure I'll have some more questions).
Last week, I pulled up the carpet on the other side of the basement, and started demolition. Knocked a wall out, found some wild history of the house as it unvealed it's secret's.
I've got the studio assembled upstairs. And things are looking on the upswing again. :D
I'll post more pictures as I move forward.
Aaron
Greetings Steve :) While the idea is great in principle, I cannot see how this can be constructed without the danger of making things worse. For example, even if you knew the modulus of elasticity of the elastomer being used, there's no easy way of determining the load on each side block with this design. And if you don't know the exact load on the elastomer you're in great danger of ending up with a natural freqeuncy within the audio band. If this happens sound will not be isolated but indeed amplified at an around this natural freqeuncy. If you clamp it too tight = waste of effort. If you clamp it too loose = waste of effort. To design a decoupling system that works properly these following factors have to be taken into consideration.... 1] Modulus of elasticity of the elastomer, which varies according to load time and temprature 2] The load on the elastomer per unit area 3] The shape factor of the elastomer blocks ( ratio of load area v. compressible area ) 4] the size of the elastomer blocks 5] The lowest frequency you want to Isolate The natural freqeuncy should be at least to 4 octaves below the lowest freqeuncy you want to isolate. Indeed up until 1.4 times the natural freqeuncy there is not only NO isoaltion there is amplification. The higher the load, the LOWER the natural frequency, but ONLY upto a certain point. Increase the load over this and the system will either not work, or only work for a short period of time. Higher loads shorten the usable life span of elastomers, so you need to keep the load within a range where you're at least going to get a few years of servicable life out of it. It's quite easy to overload an elastomer to the extent where it only works for a month or less. The bottom line is this...... Decoupling HAS to be calculated properly. Anything else is a gamble. And believe me the odds are NOT in your favour. This site will tell you how to calculate things http://www.earsc.com/HOME/engineering/TechnicalWhitePapers/Vibration/index.asp?SID=61 hope that helps Paul p.s why is this forum only accesible at certain times of the day?Went there myself last night, everything I saw was too light except for some Stanley 8" "L" brackets at $5.50 each. If you were to use two of those (slightly mutilated) and drill your own holes, you could do a sway bracket that should work at almost any angle. I'll see if my freehand drawing skills :cry: can do this justice - Nope, had to do it with help :? Anyway, these brackets are nearly 1/4" thick steel, and bent the "easy" way, like you took a flat bar and clamped it in a vise and bent it over at a right angle. They are 8" on a side, so quite a bit will need to be cut off. If you keep them short enough, you might be able to keep them above where the ceiling wallboard intersects the wall which would make it easier. The rubber should firmly contact the sides of the steel stud cap, preferably at a junction where a stud is fastened. The top rubber does NOT need to touch the frame, all pieces should be glued to the bracket, and a gap left above the stud cap depending on ceiling joist span/deflection. If you need help in this area, holler - I think I already 'splained it though... Steve
Paul, I realize your comments are true for floated floors, and even for the decoupling of leaves in a wall; but these are SWAY braces, used to keep the walls from falling down without causing hard contact between structure - if my idea is flawed, how are these any better?
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/noise/psb.html
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/noise/kwsb.html
It seems to me that just using some thin metal with some kind of rubber won't give any more predictable "crush" than what I drew -
You've been spending a lot more "midnight oil" on this particular subject than I've had time for; what are your thoughts on the Kinetics offerings regarding your concerns? Steve
OK...Need some more feedback. On page 13 & 14 of this thread, we covered some of the soffit wall designs, etc.
My question (after reading through it again), I'm curious and or confused on what direction I should construct this front wall. Should I build this straight up, should I build vertical only on the lower section of the wall, then angle the top a certain degree (if so, how much and at what height do I start the angle?).
I began construction on the back frame of the soffit wall using wood 2x4's, and I'm constructing the front side of the soffit wall using 2x6's to get the mass. And of course, this entire front soffit section is basically freestanding, except it's mounted to the floor only. (not touching the resilient walls or ceiling at all).
I've browsed through all the diagrams that barefoot has posted, as well as other's.
On another note...I've finished laying down the Pergo flooring in the Iso booth. Looks awesome... :D
Whether to build soffits straight or leaning, depends a lot on the geometry of your room; if, considering your console/desk/chair arrangement, you can get your soffited speakers at a height that will both allow direct line of sight without things between your ears and the monitors, AND you can get both your ears and your monitors NOT at specific nulls/peaks vertically, AND this allows the speakers to be aimed directly at your head (still in the VERTICAL measurement, AND you're more concerned with a mix position sweet spot than a "producer's table" or "client couch" sweet spot, then (whew) the soffits should be plumb and not slanted.
If ANY of these conditions aren't true, so that raising the monitors above ear height (while seated) becomes necessary, then the angle of tilt should be such that the center line of the speaker propagation falls somewhere between being pointed directly at your ears and being pointed directly at the producer's/client's ears; if these two angles would be different, I'd favor the mix position by about 60-70% - even more if the rearward positions aren't as important to you (as in, you mainly do your own projects and occasionally hire out yourself and/or the studio)
So, bottom line - you'd need a side elevation of the room, including console, couch, producer's desk, front wall(s), to scale; this will tell you more of what you need to do than almost anything else... Steve
Greetings Steve :) At last I can get on the forum. To be honest I would be also concerned about the Kinetics products as well. I would advise anyone thinking of using them to contact Kinetics and ask about the resonant freqeuncy of the product under these conditions. The same goes for proucts like U-boats etc. My previous comments apply to ANY mass-spring-mass system. The physics remains the same :) PaulPaul, I realize your comments are true for floated floors, and even for the decoupling of leaves in a wall; but these are SWAY braces, used to keep the walls from falling down without causing hard contact between structure - if my idea is flawed, how are these any better? http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/noise/psb.html http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/noise/kwsb.html It seems to me that just using some thin metal with some kind of rubber won't give any more predictable "crush" than what I drew - You've been spending a lot more "midnight oil" on this particular subject than I've had time for; what are your thoughts on the Kinetics offerings regarding your concerns? Steve
I don't understand what you mean. F=5/(d^0.5) with d in cm. Standard equation. Equationally confused: AndreI would advise anyone thinking of using them to contact Kinetics and ask about the resonant freqeuncy of the product under these conditions. The same goes for proucts like U-boats etc.
Greetings Andre Can you explain what this equation is for, and what is F and d. cheers PaulI don't understand what you mean. F=5/(d^0.5) with d in cm. Standard equation. Equationally confused: AndreI would advise anyone thinking of using them to contact Kinetics and ask about the resonant freqeuncy of the product under these conditions. The same goes for proucts like U-boats etc.
For calculaing the resonant frequency of a mass-spring system. F is the resonant frequency, and d is the deflection of the spring with the load applied. I guess it is one step removed from calculating deflections from physical properties of materials. Formularly yours: AndreCan you explain what this equation is for, and what is F and d.
Steve,
I did a few measurements sitting in the chair, and the average spot ranges from 44-48" in my listening sweet spot. So how does 46" from the floor to the bottom of the soffitted speaker sound? (no pun intended :lol:)
I have finished framing the outer part of the soffit wall, except the very front where the monitors will go.
And, to make things interesting, I'm going to attempt what Sjoko did, and soffit mount my JBL's. And yes, I'm sure this will create some interesting issues. The 2 issues will be "Rear Port" & "Heat" from the built in amp. The front soffit cavities are actually farely large, so my thinking is, the amp can breath, and probably the port as well. (So we'll find out soon enough).
I'm just trying to figure out the best way to frame this very front section for speakers, making it larger for future change if needed, etc. Any suggestions?
Need more info on other dimensions; floor to ceiling at speaker, total width of room at speaker location (measured to outer edge of soffit where it meets the splayed walls), distance center to center of left/right speakers - also, you want to avoid placing your speakers too much above ear height; the pinae affect hearing response when out of horizontal plane, just started on that part of Newell's Recording Studio Design and will have to read more before I can explain it well.
Just when you think you're starting to understand... :cry:
Floor to Ceiling is approx. 86" if I remember correctly. Distance from L/R center of speakers is 7 ft.
See if this helps any...
Greetings Aaron :) You should read the Genelec Technical papers on soffit mounting. There's about 3 or 4 papers on the subject on the Genelec Site. btw - I've thoroughly searched the Internet for soffit mounting advice over the last 2 years, and the Genelec Site is the BEST, and probably only decent advice I can find. Rear ported speakers are NOT suitable for soffit mounting. Speakers with amps on the back, should have the amps remotely positioned for the obvious heat reasons. Soffit mounted speakers will require the bass to be reduced, as soffit mounting increase bass. Genelec also advise a LOT of rear wall absorption, as soffit mounting excites the room modes more than free standing speakers. You should also avoid any part of the soffits/soffit wall touching your main wall behind it for isolation reasons. regarding fitting larger speakers in the future.... I have the same issue. Luckily it's ok to make the soffits larger than the speakers themselves. You stuff the gap with rockwool. However the front bezel/soffit wall MUST be exactly flush with the front of the speaker cabinet ( to prevent diffraction ), and the BEZEL around the speaker MUST be as close fitting as possible without touching it Have a look at my studio build diary http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=1 Apart from the drywalling I've just finished my soffit wall, and have designed it according to Genelec's recommendations. Hope that helps :) PaulSteve, I did a few measurements sitting in the chair, and the average spot ranges from 44-48" in my listening sweet spot. So how does 46" from the floor to the bottom of the soffitted speaker sound? (no pun intended :lol:) I have finished framing the outer part of the soffit wall, except the very front where the monitors will go. And, to make things interesting, I'm going to attempt what Sjoko did, and soffit mount my JBL's. And yes, I'm sure this will create some interesting issues. The 2 issues will be "Rear Port" & "Heat" from the built in amp. The front soffit cavities are actually farely large, so my thinking is, the amp can breath, and probably the port as well. (So we'll find out soon enough). I'm just trying to figure out the best way to frame this very front section for speakers, making it larger for future change if needed, etc. Any suggestions?
Lookin Good! I'll have to read up on it when I get a chance. Right now I'm having difficulty typing w/ only one hand. There was a neighbors cat in our warehouse here at work, and in the process of trying to remove it, it bit the crap out me and now my hand is soooo swollen... :shock: And of course, it's never had shots, so waiting to hear if I have to get rabies shots...Arghhh!!!
Any way, back on the subject...I noticed your chicken wire. I tried that under the first floor I was building...rattled like a bad spring reverb. Hopefully it won't cause you any issue's.
As far as the front wall section, it is completely isolated from the back wall, side walls and ceiling. The ONLY thing it's mounted to is the floating floor. I made sure to take the precautions on that.
I've already got most of it completed, just not the very front section.
Gotta run...it's quitin' time...
Aaron, that height should work given the ceiling height you mentioned... Steve
Cool. Well, next week I'll be doing major stuff in the studio.
Put the board up on the back wall, finish out some electrical, hope to complete most of the front soffit wall and bass traps.
Just picked up a bundle each of 1" & 1 1/2" 703 board (they were out of 2" till the end of the month). My truck looks like the beverly hill billies :lol: .
Picked up the 4 doors w/ glass yesterday and the plywood for the front wall, some mdf for between windows, bass trap hangers, and speaker soffits.
Finish out the walls for the soundlocks. Frame the second wall between the CR & LR. If I got any money left, maybe do the glass.
Bought a table saw for doing the fine detail work, and making life easier.
It looks like I'll loose my hole in the floor for the equipment racks. (really sucks, but need the floor space)...and all that work I did for those racks...the main purpose I floated the floor :evil:
And a question...how the hell do you make the bezels?
That's the latest low down. Can you tell, I finally got my '03 tax return... :D
And if I'm really lucky, maybe get some HVAC duct work done.
I hope to have lots of pix when I return from vacation.
Aaron
"And a question...how the hell do you make the bezels? " -
I'm assuming you mean bezels for your speakers; are you building with future upgrades in mind, or planning on the LSR's as your permanent speakers?
Which part of the construction aren't you sure of? Steve
Let's just say, I haven't even touched the the front wall this past week. However I have finished the second wall between the CR & LR (framed and insulated...just needs drywall.). And I finished framing the other soundlock and running electrical and insulating it. Just needs drywall.
And I've got about $800 worth of material I'm not ready for yet! Argh!!!
As far as the front wall, I'm completely baffled! Sorry, pun intended... :D
I'm trying to figure out the speaker stand scenario and how to construct. Trying to decide if I need to build a "Box" for the speaker or just a platform. Trying to figure out the construction for adding additional bass hangers (OH, and speaking of which...your drawing Steve shows linoleum & fiberglass insulation. Every hanger I've seen on this site has some type of white material wrapped around them. what the heck is it??????)
The baffle extension. Like what bluefield did. I'm lost, I'm confused. :? :? :?
And I'm in a freaking bad mood because I'm here in the office on my vacation because the damn firewall crapped out on the network last week. So, now that it's up, I'm outta here.
Catch y'all next week.
Back to vacation and a couple cold drinks!!
OK. Finally got the pix developed. So here we go...
Here's some of the second layer of drywall on the ceiling in the CR.
Here's the Iso Room floor and the Pergo being installed.