Found This Site Too Late...Help

Try an insulation supply -- basically, the places that insulation pros get their stuff.

Thanks, Keith.

You're quite welcome. Something to keep in mind about the Home Depots and Lowes and the like -- they carry the most popular stuff, not necessarily what you need. My HD carries exactly four kinds of drywall:

4' x 8' x 1/2" 4' x 12' x 1/2" 4' x 12' x 1/2" moisture resistant 4' x 8' x 5/8"

On the other hand, the place I purchased my drywall had 8', 9', 10', and 12' lengths, either in stock or available by special order, of just about every type of drywall I could imagine, including 54" widths! :shock: Plus, the price was a tad chepaer than Home Depot. The same is of course true of insulation. The place I bought my drywall also does insulation, and they have tons of options, including the Roxul/Thermafiber stuff I'll be using in my project. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

Cool. There's a drywall supply here in Nashville, where I get my rock. I need to find out if they carry insulation...never occurred to me to ask. They're a huge store so they might. My contractor gets his from there as well. I'm trying to decide if they should hang 4'x8' sheets vertically on the first layer of the inside room's wall and then 4'x12' horizontally (or vice versa) for the next layer so there's less seams on at least one layer. Did you get a chance to look at that heat exchanger I mentioned a few posts back?

You want your final layer to be horizontal. I just followed your heat exchanger link -- that might work. I really like the Fantech site with all its information and specs though. But, who knows, maybe I'll go cheap too. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

You want your final layer to be horizontal. I just followed your heat exchanger link -- that might work. I really like the Fantech site with all its information and specs though. But, who knows, maybe I'll go cheap too. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Then 4'x'12' it is on the last layer. Yeah, but that Fantech is pricy. But I can handle $399 :P I'm heading out to travel north to my folks for Christmas. Thanks again everyone for ALL the advice. Have a wonderful Christmas!

sharward wrote:

You want your final layer to be horizontal.

Why? I thought it was only necessary to get the two layers going opposite directions on alternating layers. It's too late in my project but I can tell you that I would much rather have held up a 4x8 sheet of 5/8" drywall early in the project than at the end when I'm starting to fade physically. Nashtalon: Make sure you remember that as you add layers, you are also reducing the space to add drywall. I'm having to shave about 3/8" off of EVERY sheet of drywall I'm standing up on the walls (last layer) because all of the "standard" wood lengths and construction plans assume one layer of 1/2" (or MAYBE one layer of 5/8") but not two! We figured out a way to set up a jig we can use a Dremel tool with a drywall bit to make easy work of this. len

len-morgan wrote:

Nashtalon: Make sure you remember that as you add layers, you are also reducing the space to add drywall. I'm having to shave about 3/8" off of EVERY sheet of drywall I'm standing up on the walls (last layer) because all of the "standard" wood lengths and construction plans assume one layer of 1/2" (or MAYBE one layer of 5/8") but not two! We figured out a way to set up a jig we can use a Dremel tool with a drywall bit to make easy work of this. len

The nice thing is I'm having real drywallers hang the rock. I told them I want 1/8" gap at the top and bottom, and at each wall joint (corners). They said no problem.

Nashtalon wrote:

The nice thing is I'm having real drywallers hang the rock. I

Well, I'm a REAL drywaller! With a little more practice, I might even raise myself to amature status!!! :-) len

I think I may forgo the heat recovery unit and opt for something simpler. I think I'll do a fresh air silencer on the interior of wall 1, which is the beefed up garage wall leaf. Running a 6" diam. duct to another silencer on the interior of wall 2. This will house a booster fan rated at 250 CFM. There'll be an identical setup for the stale air exhaust, including another booster fan. The inner silencers will have access panels to do any maintenance to the fans, as well as clean the filters. There will be an exterior filter as well at the fresh air inlet. Also, each fan will have it's own rheostat to controll inflow and outflow seperately.

Doesn't sound like a bad plan actually. :) I'm curious what the cost breakdown will be for that compared to the HRV. Actually, upon researching this a bit more, you may want to consider an ERV instead of an HRV. ERV stands for "Energy Recovery Unit" and, according to Fantech's site, ERVs are recommended in Tennessee. The two lines they offer are the SE704N and the SER Series N. It is possible that a system like this will cost more initially but the energy savings over its life will offset that premium.

Keith, I'm basing my turnabout on this: I'll only be using the room several times a week for several hours a day. I may also rent it out, as I've had a lot of friends interested in it. I'd rather spend $400 on...whatever...new in ear monitors, etc. We have a reasonably temperate climate here in Music City, the winters aren't THAT cold. Although July and August can be pretty hot. But I plan on touring then anyway. But what it really comes down to is I'm a cheap ass :P

Well I got the two silencers for the outer leaf built and in place...man did that suck (no pun intended) :P I placed them at opposite corners and the inlet will end up near the ceiling and the outlet near the floor. I did this so the cold air (winter) coming in the room will be somewhat warmed by the air near the ceiling, since heated air rises. In the summer, I'll reverse the fans, so the air near the ceiling is drawn out, rather than the cooled air near the floor. In building the silencers, I used MDF, two layers and a layer of LMV between the MDF with fiberglass lining the interior. They ended up being 4' long by 16" wide by 8" deep and I'm using 6" duct, although not flex duct, but the aluminum flexy pipe. I'll splice the regular plastic flex duct before I bring it through the inner leaf, so as to not have any hard connections. Steve had said to use 8" duct, but since it's a rehearsal room and not a studio, airflow noise wasn't an issue. Besides, you can't even hear the airflow and the fans will be inside silencers on the interior walls. I hooked up one of the fans on the exhaust side and went over and felt a nice waft of air coming in through the inlet. I also did the sound test and had only a 2db leak at the vents compared to the rest of the building. I think that's tolerable. Framing of the walls and ceiling starts on Monday...Yea! :!: :!:

That's wonderful! :D Got pictures of this? Maybe some shots of the construction process? I'd love to see 'em!

sharward wrote:

That's wonderful! :D Got pictures of this? Maybe some shots of the construction process? I'd love to see 'em!

Yeah, I'll be posting some pics soon. They started framing yesterday and are almost done. So nice to have 4 framers working together like busy bees. Sure get more done than me by myself :P I was talking to a friend of mine, who's also a musician (drummer) and is thinking about converting his garage to a practice room. His budget is somewhat limited but I think he's got enough for a room in a room design. However, he's unable to afford tearing out the existing drywall and beefing it up like advised here. He currently has a detached garage with wood siding, 2x4 framed, r-13 in the stud cavities and 2 layers 5/8" rock on the walls and ceiling (said he bought the house & garage that way...maybe someone tried soundproofing it before :shock: ). Anyway, based on the following diagram, what can Josh reasonably expect? He's not looking for absolute silence...just enough to keep the nearest neighbors happy.

Nashtalon wrote:

However, he's unable to afford tearing out the existing drywall and beefing it up like advised here

Do you mean he can't afford it financially or timewise? There IS (virtually) no cost to removing the current two layers of drywall. Just take a dry wall saw, saw out the old drywall between the studs (leaving strips of the old dry wall screwed to the studs), remove the insulation (and save it), put the cut dry wall between the studs of the existing wall (they'll fit because they were cut from the cavity they're going back in on, and screw, glue, and calk it down. The only expense is for calk and possibly glue. And of course a lot of (free) labor. You will avoid a triple leaf (which will make the situation WORSE than it is now) and also be able to buy a little floor space since the air gap is measured from the back of two masses, not the distance between the studs. len

Thanks Len, couldn't a said it better meself (but probably woulda used a lot more words :oops: Steve

Steve, That's hard to believe. I think I'm one of the most verbose posters out there!!!! I'm going to PM you on something else! len

Well the framing's done and man were they quick. So fast they got the insulation installed before I had time to snap some pics of the walls w/o the insulation. The drywallers are here today, three of them!!! They should have the first layer hung and caulked today. Then tomorrow apply some quick dry mud and attach the second layer. :!: :!:

Don't think you're gonna be happy with your doors that way - the type you want are FLAT SOLID CORE, not paneled ones. Where the panels are recessed, you're losing MASS. Adding MLV will cause the air spaces between the thin panels and the MLV to act as multi-leaf construction, and low frequency isolation will suffer. A LOT. If you've not already bought the MLV, you'd be better off replacing both doors with solid core, FULL THICKNESS FLAT doors and forgetting the MLV. Once you do that, seals will be the weakest link so slightly more mass won't help... Steve http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... atch#30766 This might help for inner door; outer, secure doors can be a bitch due to hardware, codes, etc...

Well, crap...wish I had known that. :x Unfortunately, they're already hung. What if I did this: I already have a roll of LMV, what if I cut it into rectangles and "filled in " the recesses in the doors before applying one large piece to the door? That'd get rid of the air space and make up for the lost mass.

Or could you rough it up a little and fill it with joint compound (or Bondo) ?

HALLELUJAH :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: The drywallers finished hanging and taping all the sheetrock today. All they have left is the finish coat on Monday. After they left, I took my boombox out there and cranked it and went outside...no sound-nada. Then I took a kick drum in there and had my woman pound on it while I stood outside. Right next to the garage you could hear a faint thud-and I mean faint. When I walked 30 feet away, it disappeared. WOW was that amazing! 8) I still have to treat the doors and caulk at the bottom (and I asked the drywall hangers to leave an 1/8" gap at the bottom so the rock would be decoupled from the slab and damn skippy were they precise). I also have to build and install the inner silencers. I had a minor sound leak at the outside ventilation inlet but am confident the inner silencers will take care of that. Still have to install the surface mount electric boxes, paint, put up trim and room treatments, etc., but should be totally done by next week sometime. Yeah me. :P

Sooo, are we to assume this means you're gonna forgive us for all the "bullying" ?? :wink: Your doors may well be what will eliminate even the dull thud you're getting outside, BTW - I like Len's idea as much as any I'd come up with if you still want the doors better. If you "de-hang" a door so you can lay it flat, then (in two passes) first fill the lowest areas (thinnest part) with drywall mud (sand first), then scuff that up after it's dry and trowel in enough to raise the door smooth and flat, then (while the mud's still soft) glue on a surface layer of 1/4" birch ply, making sure to get good glue joints where the stiles and rails of the door are, that should improve each door by several dB (especially at LOW frequencies) - If the plywood gets in the way of your door frames, make it smaller (not clear to the edge) - you could also put a bead of weatherstrip where the ply meets the door frame, for another level of seal. Or, if you're as happy as it seems, just rock on... Steve

What bullying???? I found nothing but tough love here :P Seriously, a BIG THANKS to everyone who helped me in this endeavour. If it wasn't for the great folks this site, I'd still be banging my head against the wall... ...and my neighbors would hear it :D You all showed me the RIGHT way to attain isolation, and I learned some things along the way. Steve-I'm going to take the pins out of the hinges, lay the doors flat and do as Len suggested. I'm going to use your recommendation too with the plywood...we call it Luaan (sp?). I'm still going to incorporate some LMV to beef the doors up, since I have it already.