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Funny, I was just reading your experience from another thread. I found a mini split for around $550 that cools and heats. http://www.bizrate.com/buy/products__at ... 85146.html A far as ventilation and building code...my garage has already had it's final inspection and since the construction I'm doing is not structural, I don't have to worry about any more inspections. Not that I would anyway...it's pretty lax here. Guess I'll heve to address the ventilation...breathing oxygen is fairly important.

That's a darn good price. I'll have to look into that some more. I'm pretty sure the Soleus stuff is made in China, whereas the more expensive brands (like Mitsubishi and Fujitsu) are Japanese. Quality is a factor... Although I admit, that price point is interesting. Bear in mind you'll need connection lines -- that's going to add a few hundred bucks. And I'm fairly confident in saying a mini split is not a DIY installation. You'd need a certified HVAC contractor to do that... And you may have some difficulty finding one to do it on equipment you purchased over the Internet. Also, don't assume you don't need a permit for what you'll be doing. Find out for sure. Don't miss the "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread.

I'm pretty sure the Soleus stuff is made in China

What the heck ISN"T made in China anymore?

Thankfully, this. ;-)

Pop the hood and see how many "Made in China" stamps you find... :roll: :lol:

The lines are $99 for 15'. I've found some of these units that come with the refrigerant, others that don't. As far as DIY, this is fairly easy, assuming you have basic electric skills and know how to run 2 phase cable, or 220v. Also, if you've ever had to replace the refrigerant in your car's A/C system, it's fairly easy. Freon is what they use to call R-22 until the environmentalists said it's bad for the ozone and now most cars use R134a, a less "toxic" refrigerant. Anyway, you simply evacuate the system and then introduce the refrigerant. If that's beyond your skill or you're not comfortable doing it, a HVAC company can for about $75 or so, maybe less.

Aaronw wrote:

Pop the hood and see how many "Made in China" stamps you find... :roll: :lol:

Hell, even my "American Made" Mustang has a lot of parts made in China. So Aaronw, you're in Nashville too? Cool.

Yeah, Drop me a PM or email. Here's my thread... http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839 It's the one w/ 44 thousand and some odd hits...

I just know that in my city, air conditioner installs (except window units of course) require permits, which means they require inspections, and I don't want to chance screwing it up. I reviewed the instruction manual for the Mitsubishi unit and I was pretty intimidated... :?

Well today was adventurous and productive to say the least. We beefed up the outer walls (1st leaf) by using a router with a small bearing on it, drilling a pilot hole in each stud cavity and simply inserted the bit into the cavity, moving it until the bearing hit a stud and proceeded to cut out perfect blanks with about 1/4" gap or so. Used several bits, as the sheetrock chewed them up but hey, what a time saver. This is a direct knock off of Steve's suggestion, except he said use a Dremel. As you may recall, I had placed furring strips, perpendicular to the studs, on the first layer of drywall, acting, as I stupidly thougt, as RC. Fortunately they were attached with nothing more than Liquid nails and the "sandwich" came apart pretty easily.Then the sheetrock was placed into each stud cavity. Now all I have to do is fill the outer gaps with acoustic caulk. Already did the first layer. I'll do that tomorrow while they frame up the new walls. Two questions: 1. I do leave the exposed cavities (the ones I beefed up) uninsulated, correct? The new wall cavities will get insulation, with paper facing INWARD. 2. For the new wall, should I use one layer of 5/8" and one 1/2", due to the coincidence factor Steve mentioned. I need to order my sheetrock tomorrow. Thanks to everyone!

Great idea salvaging the drywall! I kind of wish I had done that when I did my beef-up... It sure would have been a lot cleaner than what I did! (Although I'm sure yours was at least somewhat messy!) I think there's some value in applying some insulation against the outer leaf in an effort to keep it from resonating too much. You may have to fill the cavity with insulation though to comply with code in terms of firebreaks. Check with your local building department. Ideally you would use insulation that does not have any kraft paper on it. I've been promoting the use of Thermafiber Sound Attenuation Fire Blankets (SAFB) - Nominal Density (2.5 pcf) and Roxul Acoustical Fire Batt (AFB) - ≥2" (2.5 pcf) for months here for fire safety reasons. Yes, it's more expensive than the cheap-o fluffy pink stuff... But, then again, so are air bags, anti-lock brakes... ;-) Personally (and I've heard Steve suggest this as well), I think you're better off getting all 5/8" rather than mixing and matching two sizes. Reasons: you only have to deal with one pile, and you'll benefit from the additional mass that 5/8" offers over 1/2". --Keith :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

Great idea salvaging the drywall! I kind of wish I had done that when I did my beef-up... It sure would have been a lot cleaner than what I did! (Although I'm sure yours was at least somewhat messy!) Dusty!!! I think there's some value in applying some insulation against the outer leaf in an effort to keep it from resonating too much. Is it that noticible....again, I need sound reduction, not sound proof and would have to justify the cost against the benefits. You may have to fill the cavity with insulation though to comply with code in terms of firebreaks. Check with your local building department. Ideally you would use insulation that does not have any kraft paper on it. I've been promoting the use of Thermafiber Sound Attenuation Fire Blankets (SAFB) - Nominal Density (2.5 pcf) and Roxul Acoustical Fire Batt (AFB) - ≥2" (2.5 pcf) for months here for fire safety reasons. Yes, it's more expensive than the cheap-o fluffy pink stuff... But, then again, so are air bags, anti-lock brakes... ;-) Personally (and I've heard Steve suggest this as well), I think you're better off getting all 5/8" rather than mixing and matching two sizes. Reasons: you only have to deal with one pile, and you'll benefit from the additional mass that 5/8" offers over 1/2". Gotchya :D --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks, man!!!

Nashtalon wrote:

I think there's some value in applying some insulation against the outer leaf in an effort to keep it from resonating too much. Is it that noticible....again, I need sound reduction, not sound proof and would have to justify the cost against the benefits. You may have to fill the cavity with insulation though to comply with code in terms of firebreaks. Check with your local building department.

I agree with putting insulation in the OUTER wall as well as the inner (new) one. It's really pretty cheap and if nothing else, the insulation value (not ISOlation) will keep your A/C and Heating bills down because you won't loose as much through the outer walls. Remember to leave an air gap between the outside wall and the inside one. You don't have (or want) to fill the air gap with insulation - just the individual stud cavities in each wall. len

Len, You mean as in this diagram:

That's exactly what I mean! (Wish my wife understood me as well!) Just so you know (and you might already), when you are calculating or telling someone how big your air gap is, it's measured from the two facing drywall surfaces, not the facing insulation surfaces. One thing that I did forget to mention was that it's probably a good idea to remove the drywall from the studs (if you use the Dremel approach). It wouldn't hurt anything to leave it up but once you start cutting it, I'd be concerned that once you put up the new interior wall, some pieces might come loose and either rattle or fall off between the walls. len

len-morgan wrote:

That's exactly what I mean! (Wish my wife understood me as well!) :P Just so you know (and you might already), when you are calculating or telling someone how big your air gap is, it's measured from the two facing drywall surfaces, not the facing insulation surfaces. Right, I got that. One thing that I did forget to mention was that it's probably a good idea to remove the drywall from the studs (if you use the Dremel approach). It wouldn't hurt anything to leave it up but once you start cutting it, I'd be concerned that once you put up the new interior wall, some pieces might come loose and either rattle or fall off between the walls. Already did that. I'm kind of a stickler for neatness and all it invilved was beating the rock and removing the screws. len

Thanks for the input. I've looked for, but was unable to find an answer to the following: Will 2"x8"s, used as ceiling joists, set 16"OC and spanning 17' be enough to hold two layers of 5/8" rock without bowing?

They will span 16'6" with 10 PSF dead load; two layers of 5/8 drywall weigh 4.7 PSF, plus the weight of the joists (part of the total dead load) would run about 2 PSF for 2x8 on 16" centers. This means that you don't need the full 10 PSF, so the extra 6" span won't be a problem... Steve Oh, I believe I mentioned a Rotozip, not a dremel; the Rotozip is heavier duty. If you can get a 1/8" collet for your router, they make rotozip bits just for drywall that will last longer, if you have more to do - although they don't have the cool little ball bearing thingy that's obviously making things easier for you, so it might be a tossup. And yes, the extra mass of using all 5/8 wallboard will result in a more balanced isolation for your walls...

knightfly wrote:

This means that you don't need the full 10 PSF, so the extra 6" span won't be a problem... Steve

But you might want to keep a sturdy umbrella around just in case. :-) len

Nah; if you can find tight knot #2 boards and make sure any edge knots are always on top (in compression) I wouldn't be afraid to hang THREE layers of 5/8 on that spacing... :!: :?: :!:

Thanks Steve! I believe we can start on framing then today. One thing. In the drawing below, will this idea work as seperation of the inner and outer leaves? Kind of like an airlock. I plan to fill the small gap with backer rod and acoustic caulk.

Check with your local building department to make sure they're OK with you not filling the entire cavity between the walls with insulation... :roll: ...They may require it as a firestop. The senior inspector at local building department balked at that and insisted that I completely fill the space between the walls for that reason. I'm pretty sure that there's no isolation cost to doing so -- it's just a money thing. Doing conventional firebreaks would be detrimental to isolation (fusing the leaves together).

And I would be a little concerned with only a 1/4" gap between the leaves. Do those little "legs" have to be there? If not, I'd think it better to fill the cavity with insulation and then use some sort of stiff foam (blue stryrofoam) or Celotex covered with cloth (for looks) attached to only one leaf. len

The "legs" would be a stud, covered with 2 layers of 5/8". My concern is if there's no mass in that space, the sound would hit the inner wall, go into the air space, then travel through the outer door, unimpeded:

You don't have to worry about that. If your outer leaf door is sealed properly, that's its job. If you aren't careful, you'll bridge the leaves together and then you'll have a real problem.

What you have to remember is that your doors will almost ALWAYS be the weak link in isolation (unless you build REALLY crappy walls). Also, a door is mass and the equation we all work with is mass-air-mass. It doesn't matter that the mass on one side is drywall and the other is a door. len