from shed to studio?

Is the extra 2x6 even with the faces of your other studs, or is it set back? I can't quite tell from the pix, but it looked to me like it's set back, something like this?

OK, just looked at the pix a bit differently - saw that you turned the blocking for the corners flat against the outside wallboard, then put 2x6's against those flat boards, leaving an inside corner stud that only protrudes about 1/2 inch - am I looking at this right? This would mean that you have not left enough mounting surface for EITHER wall's RC to fasten firmly to the framing, and may need to add another strip to each 2x6. Whenever you can, I need you to take a close-up of just the area I've circled in this pic, so I can see the exact spacing and detail - you'll need to pull back the insulation enough so I can see the boards, and shoot it from 3 different angles; left, center, and right side of the corner. This looks fixable, but I really need those pix so I don't steer you wrong... Steve

Ok, I now know what I did. The diagram you just posted, in the top left corner the 2x4 and 2x6 create a backwards upside down L shape. The 2x6 is flush with the interior edge of the wall, as with each corner of the room. So in each corner on the left and the right, there is a 2x6 flush with the edge of the wall. The upside down L shape I was talking about, the 2x6 is being covered by a portion of the other walls end 2x4 stud. So thats not a problem. But on the same corner but the other wall, I also put a 2x6 in there as well. So basicly, 4 out of 8 of the 2x6s are useful, the other four aren't. I'll have to take some pictures, because explainging it is just too confusing.,

Hmm, I have an idea, you suggested I put a 2x6 in each corner for better mounting of RC without interferenece. My question is, the 2x6 still sticks out pretty far. How am I going to mount the drywall to the RC without sticking some screws into the 2x6?

Since those arent structurally needed to be that strong, try this -

Sorry, the text in the pic should say half the WIDTH, not half the depth - you need to cut clear through the 2x6 depth-wise, but only about half the width. Any saw you can get into the space will work, just break out the piece where the red X is... steve

i figured i was going to have to cut the entire thing of or do something like this. Thanks!

dietcookie -- where are you??? After all that work, I hope you didn't give up...

Well what can I say, it's been a while and we are soo close!! Sorry for not updating, just been real busy with a bunch of things. School started and what not just life in general. Anyways, I haven't given up yet!! The entire room is drywalled, double 5/8th with RC. We just got done painting the entire room. It's like an almond brownish color and were going to put white cream colored molding on the top of the wall and of course the bottom. Flooring is next on the list, we decided on carpet because we would think the room isn't big enough to get any real reverb out of wood flooring and it'll all be flutter echo anyways, unless you guys have a better idea. Then it'll be stucco on the outside. I have still yet to put an A/C in the room. What we will probably do is place the A/C in the attic, have a duct from the venting in the A/C into a hole in ceiling. I'm not too worried about noise from the A/C going into the room. I just hope this method doesn't leak too much sound out of the room. The door is a little warped from all this rain we recently got in San Diego so some of the door seal doesn't seal all the way. We just used the best door edge seal we could find at Lowes/Home Depot. For door jamb and sweep, we found a nice neoprone sweep that'll work good. I'll let you guys know what happens with that, I've used too much time and money (especially money) into this, I just can't afford to buy a really nice door seal/sweep and whatnot at this point. As for acoustics and further bass trapping, is 703 still the best bang for the buck? I met someone that works for Soundproofing America and judging by their website is looks as though they are promoting foam which is looked down upon in this forum. Any one know in Southern California where I can pick up some 703? Anyways thats it for now, I promise I will start posting again :) Toan PS. Come to think, I have alot of my insulation left (3" Rockwool with 2.5 PCF) If I can't get ahold of any 703, will this work the same way if I somehow made panels with it? I just don't want to buy any foam. I just want to deaden the room, and trap as much of the bass freq. as possible so my neighbors don't call the cops.

It's ALIVE... :D Kinda thunk we'd lost ya man, good to hear from you again!! Your door seal may REALLY limit your isolation, may have to bite the bullet and replace whatever it takes to get a good seal there - On the AC, if you use large flex duct to/from the AC unit it should help with isolation/noise. Insulation; by all means use the Roxul; 703 is getting to be a bad joke anymore considering the cost and the fact that Owens Corning doesn't care about small orders, PERIOD - not to mention the ridiculous cost for virtually NO DIFFERENCE in performance. Carpet - I don't recommend it generally. Depends on the function though; if you will be using overhead mics on a drum kit, or a tall vocalist, then I would NOT use carpet but instead put some of your AFB's on the ceiling to kill flutter and direct reflections off the ceiling into your mics. Welcome back; you've apparently discovered the ONLY thing that virtually ALL studio owners, large and small, REALLY have in common; empty pockets... :cry: Steve

Where would you recommend me go to get a door seal? I went to Costco today and picked up some wood flooring, not real kind but close enough. The kind that doesn't scratch, stain etc etc. I'm sure people will track mud and dirt into the room so I had to get something that is easy to clean, we already layed just a small section down, looks like a real room almost now. Now for the AFBs, my plan was to cut them down into managble pieces and somehow make a maybe wood frame for them to hang from the walls and ceilings. Can this fram be made from anything I can get my hands on? Will putting a poster or tapestry over the panel make any difference in absorpbtion? I got some cool Miles Davis posters and whatnot that I HAVE to put in the room :D That and a kick ass Maiden tapestry... And the thicker the better I presume?

Door seal - depends on whether you're broke or can afford $250 just for the seal, let me know - Hugo Inside had a recent thread on door seals, I did a sketch for him you may be interested in. Posters - Miles indeed, I know we're gonna get along just fine - if it's a paper poster, it will reflect highs and some high mids so you'd need to find a place for it where the reflections won't be bothersome. Tapestries - should be a great absorber cover, a lot nicer looking than burlap; and yes, thicker is fine; although it's the depth of insulation and air behind it that makes the diff. You will need to also consider building a frame for a "cloud", since the floor will reflect quite a bit; otherwise, you'll have quite a bit of flutter in that room. You're familiar with John's DIY absorber page, right? It can be reached by clicking on the logo in the upper right corner of the page, then on "wall units" - HTH... Steve

If you could, please show me the sketches for the door seal as well as any product you might recommend. For the absorbers, I sort of understand the wall units page but I think it would help me tremendously if I acutally saw pictures of it. I'd love to build some with my excess insulation, save me money perhaps so I can get a nice door seal? :) Ok, I checked out pictures of laptoppop's absorbers and looks pretty simple to me. But, since my room is so small and i'm using it for rehearsal and recording, is it ok to put a corner absorber in and have a drumset in that corner as well? I actually might even have two sets in there (I know it's alot, but I am a drummer :D ) One other thing, with his studio it seems although the absorbers are covering the entire wall top to bottom, are you telling me I painted the entrire room for nothing! :oops: oh well..I guess these questions can be addressed later when i'm actually going to build them..or now

Door thread I mentioned is on the first page, under Hugo Inside - that's why I didn't take the time to link it. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3293 Paint is NEVER useless; it's either good, or it's detrimental. Good as in, seals any little pinhole leaks that may have lost you some isolation. Good, as in Keeps the paper covering of your wallboard from aging and going bye-bye :=) Detrimental in some cases, as in; Oil base paint on inside surface, poly vapor barrier on studs UNDER that material, creates a moisture trap that will grow the nastiest mold you ever saw. Drums and absorbers; first, it's dificult for two solid objects to occupy the same space at the same time without inordinate amounts of PAIN or DESTRUCTION... But in a small room you take what you can get. Keep in mind that it won't sound very good without acoustic treatment, and that corners are some of the best places for that... Steve

So in my case, it'll be ok to put the drums in the corner since I don't have much space to begin with?

Yeah; in that small a space, I'd first put rockwool absorbers across all the ceiling-to-wall corners, space some batts on walls opposite bare sections (staggered, in other words), and if you're mixing in there, in all the usual places for that; then, if the sound is working, you're done. Keep in mind that the more noise you make in the room, the harder your soundproofing construction will have to work to keep the neighbors happy... Steve

As space permits, i'm going to try and fill as much as the room as possible with the slot resonators. As for just acoustic panels, i'll probably just build thin slot resonators, as many as again, space permitting. I'll definetly build the wall absorbers as they seem to help and look cool. For the ceiling, same thing as a wall absorber?

No, I'd put rockwool panels diagonally across all ceiling-to-wall corners, at least 2 feet edge=to=edge; then more rockwool panels spaced 2-3" off the ceiling where possible. I'd go with the slats mainly where the drums will go, and tune them to around 300 hZ (calculator in the Acoustics forum here)... Steve

Ok, so using the side wall and corner absorbers will help with sound exiting the room right? Don't need any of my neighbors hassling me :lol: cause my friend has alot of auralex foam that I can have, he keeps on insisting I take it..I have yet to accept. Anyways, (I might be repeating earlier posts, but I like reassurance) the plan is to put the corner absorbers in each of the four corners. Now on the Wall Units, it states for the absorbers to go 24" out from the corner of the wall, how long does this make the acutal absorber pertrude from the corner of the wall to the center of the room, if that makes sense..? And maybe I should of thought about this, but we already put molding into the floor, so the absorber won't be flush with the wall, is this a problem or just more space to be taken up? Is it possible for me to not build it so long from the edge of the wall, like maybe 20"? or 18" Ok, I just played with the calculator and it seemed to answer my question above, but i'll leave it in case there is something you would like to add..This calculator works for both corner and side wall absorbers correct? And I am confused, when you say rockwool panels, do you mean the "rear wall absorbers" as portrayed in the wall units link or just the DIY ones? So edited plan is, Corner Absorbers in all four corners, staggered side wall absorbers across the walls, Now do these need to be placed floor to ceiling? If so, all the way up until it meets the ceiling to wall rockwool panels? For the sidewall aborbers and rear wall absorber, do they need to be spaced from the wall? How does one mount this? That question for the ceiling too, I hope this wasn't covered in other posts, but I have a feeling it is...Sorry for all the questions, I want to be doing something new everyday, get this damn room finished :shock: One more question, the helmholtz calcuator works for which designs in the wall units link? I ask because the side wall absorbers use the angled face and I don't if that affects the freq. absorption..? On a different note, i'm considering just buying a nice door seal..Whats the cheapest one around meant for acoustical purposes? And the acutal door seal that goes around the frame of the door? Like I previously said, we used the best stuff we could find at home depot, any links to products you like? I'm looking at these ones, http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/prod ... l_kits.asp the $179 one and i'll get their jamb as well..thoughts..opinions..? edit: I just bought 4 sheets of 4x8 3/4" MDF (couldn't find 1") and a bunch of 2x1 timber pieces. Using the calculator..... Slot width. 0.25 Slat width. 2 Depth from wall. 5 Slat Depth. 1 Effective depth of Slot 1.2 Absorption Frequency 294 I think thats pretty close to 300.... Like I said, I hope the molding won't be a problem since it won't be flush with the wall...Now does the calculator work for the corner absorbers..I'm thinkint the only way to acheive 5" depth from the corner is to measure 5" out from the corner then build the MDF frame width around it.. and one more thing

Anyone..? Steve..? :cry:

Ok, so using the side wall and corner absorbers will help with sound exiting the room right? No, sorry - acoustic treatment does effectively NADA for sound escaping the room; only your mass-air-mass barrier all around the space has any effect on that. Now on the Wall Units, it states for the absorbers to go 24" out from the corner of the wall, how long does this make the acutal absorber pertrude from the corner of the wall to the center of the room, if that makes sense..? [b] What you have is an isosceles triangle that is also a Right triangle; so, if you draw a line from the peak of the 90 degree angle to the center of the long side, you now have two isosceles triangles; this means that, if the side along the wall is 24", then the depth from the corner out into the room will be (Pythagoras) the square root of 2, or 1.414 feet, or just under 17" - And maybe I should of thought about this, but we already put molding into the floor, so the absorber won't be flush with the wall, is this a problem or just more space to be taken up? Is it possible for me to not build it so long from the edge of the wall, like maybe 20"? or 18" [/b] That, or you could build a pedestal for the traps to sit on; similar to what's done for kitchen cabinets so you don't always bump your toes when you stand in front of one. Lay on your kitchen floor and look at how the bottoms of those are done... Ok, I just played with the calculator and it seemed to answer my question above, but i'll leave it in case there is something you would like to add..This calculator works for both corner and side wall absorbers correct? Actually, the helmholtz calculators only work fairly accurately for CONSTANT trap depth; for both the slanted side absorbers AND the corner absorbers, best you'll get is to AVERAGE the depth and use that in the calculator. And I am confused, when you say rockwool panels, do you mean the "rear wall absorbers" as portrayed in the wall units link or just the DIY ones? Not sure I understand the question; by "rockwool panels" I meant raw insulation batts, you can cover them with cloth for broadband corner traps. So edited plan is, Corner Absorbers in all four corners, staggered side wall absorbers across the walls, Now do these need to be placed floor to ceiling? If so, all the way up until it meets the ceiling to wall rockwool panels? All you can get; but stopping the side absorbers and rear absorber where the ceiling to wall absorbers start is a good way to do it. For the sidewall aborbers and rear wall absorber, do they need to be spaced from the wall? How does one mount this? That question for the ceiling too, Side wall absorbers, no; they have backs on them, so need to be against the wall. Rear wall absorber is deeper and NOT slatted, it can be just a stud frame across that end of the room with rockwool between the studs, and cloth covered. Fill inside with any insulation scraps, etc, for more absorption. Mounting - sides and rear, no mounting - just stand them in place; if you're nervous, use a 90 degree metal bracket and screw them to the wall at the top, being CAREFUL not to put the screw through your drywall except over a STUD (if it's not still possible to see where the studs are, you will need an electronic stud finder, one with the "DEEP" option for double drywall. Ceiling - light, long deck screws (these come in at least 3" length) into joists (again, do not MISS) - you can frame the rockwool with 1x lumber, then use metal brackets between the frame of the rockwool and your ceiling joist screws. One more question, the helmholtz calcuator works for which designs in the wall units link? I ask because the side wall absorbers use the angled face and I don't if that affects the freq. absorption..? NONE of them. See comments on this earlier. Now does the calculator work for the corner absorbers..I'm thinkint the only way to acheive 5" depth from the corner is to measure 5" out from the corner then build the MDF frame width around it.. Already answered... Steve

So am I hearing this right, to mount the on the ceiling, mount with screws through the drywall into wooden joist? I used the calculator to to tune the corner traps too 300hz, is that a good freq for the corner? What freq. should I be tuning to for the side absorbers? Comments on the door seal? Pictures of rockwoold panels people have made? And can you answer the question in the picture? Thank you.

So am I hearing this right, to mount the on the ceiling, mount with screws through the drywall into wooden joist? Yes, just be sure you don't make any holes into the ceiling cavity - a dab of caulk before you drive the screw helps. I used the calculator to to tune the corner traps too 300hz, is that a good freq for the corner? What freq. should I be tuning to for the side absorbers? For drums, 300 is a great trap frequency; that's the primary mode of a 24" kick drum shell, and the variable depth will widen the response so it sounds smoother. Another might be shell resonance of the lowest tom; a 16" tom's shell will resonate around 425 hZ, which could also stand some trapping in a small room. Comments on the door seal? Sorry, forgot; should work well - just be sure to check ALL options before you buy, and make sure what comes in the kit - check that link and download all the PDF's in the row with your model, then ask any questions these raise when you talk to the sales people. Pictures of rockwoold panels people have made? http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/index.htm And can you answer the question in the picture? Sorry, had a redraw ready and forgot to add it... Steve

So I should be tuning all the absorbers to around 300hz?

Yes; this isn't as drastic as it sounds; remember, these are NOT constant depth traps, so taking the AVERAGE depth and choosing values in the Helmholtz calculator that SAYS 300 hZ, will NOT give you a drastic PEAK at that frequency - only a center value that's around there. The main advantage of these over just absorbent placed across the corners, is that you keep more highs in the room; if this turns out to be a bad idea and you need LESS highs, you can always hang some thick blankets or some insulation over one or two of the traps. Your room size has no major mode problems, so wideband absorption will take care of most acoustic treatment needs... Steve