from shed to studio?

Yeah, I have a book on how to do it, but i'm having a friends dad who is one who we will have do the final hookup and inspection.

Hi it's been a while. Construction has slowed down quite a bit, didn't have much time this past week. We went ahead and put fireblocks in each wall and have almost all the walls with first outside layer of OSB attached. Next step is to drill and wire the electricals. Like I have said before, we are going with a peaked roof. Do I still have to build the perimeter base for that? I'm going with 24" spacing so it'll minimize the trusses to 3 or 4. And at this point, any layer of mass should be caulked correct?

No, you can just fasten the rafters with Simpson ties, straight to your double layer of OSB and perimeter frame - I'd stay with 16d nails in order to catch the actual FRAME with the fastening of those ties. For that small a roof, you can run a 2x8 ridge board at the peak, use simpson ties there too, and place collar ties (wood boards) halfway between peak and eave on each pair of rafters. Right, caulk everything so far - you need two airtight leaves, the outer and the inner one... Steve

Wow, it's been a while. I've only made some progress, i've been pretty busy lately but I have my sheathing on the outside walls with a peaked roof (4' tall in the center) that is shingled and done. I now need to make the frame of my door, R/C and drywall the wall where my door is going so I can get the measurement so I can go ahead and order the exact door I need. Is there a standard size R/C panel and what thickness drywall should I be using. Since i'll be basicly doing one wall, what grade insulation should I use? And if I plan on not using in-wall electrical outlets, do I need to worry about wiring this wall? Thanks

RC normally comes in 10, sometimes 12 foot lengths - most of it offsets the drywall by 1/2 inch, so your insulation cavity from inside to outside (using 2x4's, which are 3 1/2" wide) would total 4" - I would use a double layer of 5/8" sheet rock, make sure to follow all the recommendations in the "sticky's" and don't rush - For door info, one of the sticky's has some ideas for DIY doors... If you don't need to break your wall for wiring, then don't - the less holes to caulk the better... Steve

Ok so I take it if I do no use in-wall mounts, I don't have to wire any of the walls correct? Any specific grade of insulation I should be using to maximize sound absorption?

For in-wall service, you can use standard house insulation - if you want to spend more, Owens Corning's SAFB's (Sound Attenuating Fire-resistant Batts, I think) are denser (around 2.5 PCF as opposed to just under 1 PCF (Pounds per Cubic Foot) - any heavier than that, and you start degrading low frequency isolation. Just do NOT, repeat NOT, buy any FOAM insulation - that stuff is USELESS for sound proofing; it's closed cell foam, so it will act as a third leaf (bad) instead of acting as a damping agent. Wiring - you have to get the power INTO the room SOMEWHERE - after that, though, as long as it's protected by either conduit or wire mold you're good... Steve

The foam insulation that Home Depot sells is probably all closed cell, and as knightfly says, is useless for soundproofing, although it has some mold uses. There are open celled foams, most of which are more expensive than fiberglass or rockwool. One that comes to mind is a spray on open cell foam called icynene. It's at least twice as expensive as fiberglass, but a few people seem to think it's much better since you can spray it everywhere, around pipes and into wall gaps, and it stays there. Might even block pests a bit. I don't have any test results for Icynene. Blown wet cellulose is another insulation. This is not the fluffy stuff that goes in attics. This is tested in irc761.

Ok, I wasn't planning on buying the foam stuff anyways.

Ok, it's been really hot here so i've been avoiding work on the room. Any how, the roof is done and shingled, door frame has been built, all outerwalls sheathed. At this, point I need to do electricals. I've decided to do in-wall mounts for power just to make it more easier and simple. When I mount these boxes, I have to take in consideration of RC and how much two layers of drywall is going to take correct? Whats the smallest RC they make? I have a couple questions on drywall.. 1) When I do the ceiling, is the RC going to go from one end of the wall to the other touching the ends flush? 2) For the drywall on the walls, I do this before my floating floor correct? Usually when you install drywall, you leave a little gap at the bottom, am I doing this? Again, is the RC going to be flush with each opposiong wall? 3) How am I going to attach two layers of drywall into one RC strip? Wouldn't that be kind of hard? I've been thinking about doing the AC in the attic. Does a window unit A/C have enough power and pressure to create a usuable and comfortable temperature while traveling through all the ducts and what not? I hope this makes sense. I found a place that sells SAFB, is this the stuff I should get for my walls/ceiling/floor or should I find rockwool or 703? Would SAFB be the most cost efficient out of the three? What thickness drywall should I use, is it ok to do a layer or 5/8s then 1/2?

One other thing, I plan on having the door swing out instead on in, will it be any easier or harder to seal it up?

one last thing sorry. The outside sheathing some pieces are not flush with the studs, just a tiny gap most likely due to human error in cutting or making the walls anyways, so i've been caulking in between eash stud for all the walls. Will this even help or should I just make sure the top and bottom is caulked well? Another question, would a portable AC unit be feasible in my situation?

I'll try to catch up on your q's - 1 - RC for ceilings should NEVER touch the wallboard - you need to fasten the RC so it stops short of meeting the wall by at least 1/2" - more won't hurt, up to maybe 2". The RC itself needs to be supported as close to the end of the RC as possible, to prevent sag. 2 - just re-examined the way I drew things for you, there may be a slightly better way for walls/floor and it's not too late to change it - I'll have to catch this later tonight though, still fighting insurance companies over my wife's accident - I'll continue with the rest of your q's soon... Steve

OK, bit of a break in the fray - 2 - RC should NEVER be flush with an intersecting wall or ceiling - the idea is to not have ANY solid connection between adjoining wall or ceiling surfaces, so they don't transfer vibrations between each other. This is why using never-setting acoustic rated caulk is necessary; it's the only barrier that continues the (effectively) one-piece mass leaf around the various corners without transferring vibration in the process. Always leave at least a 1/2" gap between the end of a piece of resilient channel and the intersecting wall/ceiling surface, so there is no chance of direct coupling between the two. 3 - see the attached drawing, I tried to include enough details here to get you through this part. AC - One of the reasons I suggested a single sloped shed-type roof was so you could install a window unit "upstairs", placed in either side of one of the higher corners, and still make a "trap door" access in the wall that intersects the one the AC unit was cut into - by doing a center-peaked roof, this makes things more difficult for that plan. With your peaked roof, if you mount the AC in the peak with its control panel inward (as would be necessary to use the attic as a chilled plenum) I can't think of any easy way to access the controls. At this point, the only solution I can think of is to maybe do a small "dormer" near one end of your peak and mount the AC in the dormer, then do a small access door in the gable end of the roof so you can reach the controls. This entire plenum area would be outside your double envelope sound control construction. Before I could offer much more on the AC, I need to see pix of how far you've completed the roof, ceiling, etc, and where you might place the AC unit. As to pressures, if you were to build two duct-board lined, double-sheet rocked ducts with a couple of sharp bends in each and place a quiet fan at the start of one of them for circulation into/out of the studio, just placing the AC unit high as possible in the attic would allow it to self-exhaust. You would always keep the AC in the "fresh air" mode. SAFB's are fine; you might be able to save some $$ with rockwool, but 703 may be as expensive as the SAFB's, depending on your local sources. Where you're only using two layers of drywall, I'd stick with 5/8 for both layers. A third layer could be 1/2, or even 3/8 sandwiched between two layers of 5/8 - but before that would make sense, you'd need to be doing a full sound lock door and more elaborate cooling system or it would be a waste of time and money. Door swing - out might be easier; you could conceivably add an extra layer, at least an inch wider all around than the frame, and weatherstrip that corner for a better seal - I'll do a pic if you don't follow - Outside sheathing - see my attached drawing for the importance of seals and where - your lower floor sheathing and your outer wall sheathing should effectively be one piece; if they're not, heavy caulking is needed so they work that way. Portable AC - good parts are no ducts, no breaks in the walls, easy to do, and (duh) portable. Bad parts - no fresh air, just cooling - too noisy to have running when recording (the chilled attic method would probably allow this) and takes up valuable space in a small room. Cost is about the same for either from what I've seen. Shoot me some pix of your roof/ceiling, etc, so we can work out whatever's left... Steve

Hey thanks for the reply, i'm sorry to hear about your wife and i'm glad shes doing ok. I appreciate you deviating your time to answer my questions. Ok I have been under the assumption that drywall had to be put on first before the floor, I guess that will be my next thing. My roof peaks to about four feet so we can still fit an A/C into the side. I will take pictures tomorrow of progress and i'll show ya. One reason I want to stick with the A/C in the attic is we have someone giving us a pretty new window unit A/C for a 400sq ft room, but i've seen mini-splits on e-bay for about $400 (only using to gauge price) so my decision for A/C is basicly if I want to spend the money or to get the A/C in the attic concept going. You have answered pretty much all my questions. I'll snap some pics tomorrow after noon and post them for you to see. Thanks again!

Hey, anyways here are pictures. As you can see, the peaked roof peaks to about four feet, plenty of room if I want to put an A/C up there. I called a couple places today about insulation and the cheapest I got was $600 for 700 sq ft, a little more than I need but a rough figure. They also sold 703 boards for about .48 cents a square foot 1 inch thick and .92 cents a square foot for 2 inch thick, boards are made 2'x4'. Are these good prices? This is for SAFB. Three places said rockwool will cost about the same and using 703 stacked as insulation will cost the same if not more. The SAFB quoted was 4" thick.

Insulation - the 4" SAFB would probably be your best choice in this case. You could also use 1" 703 and 3-1/2" fluffy fiberglass stacked if it's cheaper; it would give close to the same results, probably within 1-2 dB either way. Stacking the 1" 703 and normal insulation batts would give a slight compression to the soft batts, which would damp the wall panels about the right amount; this should also happen using the 4" SAFB's, so it would come down to which is cheaper. I see the roof peak; my question is, how would you mount a window AC so it cools the attic and you still have access to the controls? My only suggestion would be to add a shed dormer to the roof on one side, put the AC in that overhanging the roof, and use the end gable to put a small access door at right angles to the AC mount. If you build your soundproof ducts with a couple of bends, line them with duct board (703 with a facing, basically) and separate the entrance/exit points, makins sure that the cool air duct draws its air from the lowest point in the attic and the warm air return comes back to the attic a ways away from the cool duct (and near the top of the space) then all you'd need is a medium sized, quiet fan to move the air in and out of the attic. One thing I'm NOT seeing that needs to be done before going any further, is insulation in the attic - both gable ends and the inside of the roof will need this. Because this attic will always be cooler than the outside, before you insulate you need to put a breathable house wrap (tyvek or equivalent, NOT asphalt-impregnated roofing felt) up against the inside of the sheathing, then if your insulation has a facing it should go against the sheathing, not toward the attic space - for this area, since it's not sound proof, you might be better off just using faced foam board insulation and gluing it in place with liquid nailz, putting the facing toward the OSB sheathing. Since the floor of the attic is bordering a cooled space (the studio) you won't need insulation there - makes it easier to get up there and do anything you need to do, as long as you make the access door big enough for a crawl through. Does your freebie AC have electronic controls, or actual knobs and switches? If the latter, you won't have to crawl up there each time and start it and set temps, etc - you could just use a heavy duty switch mounted inside the room and switch the actual power to the unit. You can find out if this will work by plugging the unit in, setting the controls, then unplugging it, waiting about half a minute, and plugging it back in - if it comes up in the correct mode, you've got the option of wiring it to a switch (or breaker, depending on your wiring job) instead of climbing up to turn it on/off. Place is lookin' good, man - you have every right to be proud of your accomplishments... Steve

So your saying I could use 1" 703 stacked with 3 1/2" NORMAL insulation (for example from home depot/lowes), if so what grade should I be buying (R-13/R30?)? In regards to the A/C, I planned on having the back stick out of the side near the middle, then have ducts running into the room through the ceiling. I'll make a small door which I can climb into and what not. From what i'm reading, are you recommending that I install a fan somewhere in the ducts to give the cold air more pressure and speed so it's not a wussy breeze into the room? :) I still haven't gotten a hold of the A/C but I understand what i'll need to do when I do get it if it's a older or newer style. My plans for now are to build the second floor, get all my wiring in and get the door in there. Anything I should address? Thanks for the compliment! Just re-read your reply, so what I should do is use insulation between each stud where the actual roof is (where its sloped?)? So when your talking about that cheap foam stuff, thats the stuff from home depot correct? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Hmm, I think I have been confused all along about how this A/C is going to work. Does the design consist of a duct going from the cold output of the A/C into the ceiling (studio side) or have the A/C blow freely into the attic with a fan blowing into the studio?

The AC will need a return line(s) and cold air lines - these will protrude through the ceiling - not blow into the attic space. This is the price I paid for 703 as a comparison 2" $0.76/sf 3" $1.13/sf

Those prices are why I stick to Semi rigid rockwool .25/sq ft 2" .45/sq ft 4"

So should I go with 4" SAFB or with some type of stacked 703 panels?

The AC unit, since it's designed for a stand-alone operation, should be installed in the attic just as if you were going to "live" there - in other words, the control panel would be inside the attic with the majority of the AC case hanging outside (be sure to tilt the outside of the unit down a few degrees, so you get proper drainage and operation) Then, you have a "chilled attic" - from this, NOT from the AC unit itself, you would pump cool air from a low spot in the attic thru heavy-walled ducting with at least two bends and several feet of length, INTO the ceiling and into the studio - at a point far away from the entry duct, you would cut a return hole and install a return duct, also double-walled and lined with duct liner fiberglass, and this duct should also have at least two bends and its other end should terminate near the AC unit and at a higher elevation than the cold air send duct. You pick up cold air low, return warm air high in the attic. You will need some type of quiet booster fan to keep air moving through the ductwork - Home Depot sells 3 different sizes of in-line duct booster fans, they run between $25 and $45 depending on size. The 8" round ones are pretty quiet, and if placed at the end of the duct furthest from the studio (as the air travels) should be inaudible. YOu should use flex duct to attach the fan, and shock mount it with either some sort of bungee cord or possibly just let the flex duct support it (taped in place with duct tape) - If you want to get tricky, buy one of those after-market electronic speed controls for routers and drills - they're about $25, and would let you slow down the fan to control noise, with a reduction in air supply. Oh, I think the drawing of this concept (linked on page 3 of this thread) may have one flaw - if you exhaust the air from the studio back to the outside, you might unbalance the pressure in the "chiller" room - this might work better by bringing the warm air back to the chiller room instead of directly outside. I just noticed this; maybe we can get a more learned opinion from Rod Gervais on this - hopefully before you're ready to do that part... Steve

Ok well, I shouldn't be worrying about the AC at this point. I've started building the floated floor. I only had enough pucks to start on the perimeter 2x4s. I didn't feel that one puck on every other interesecting joist was enough so i'm going to go buy enough for each on Monday. The frame it self is pretty tight all around and as close as I can get it with the neoprene between the wall and the 2x4. Im having my friends dad come tomorrow to tell us what we need for electricals. What do you think I should do for insulation, I can't finish the floor until I get it. Should I go for the $600 SAFB, or go with maybe a 2" thick 703 and some thin home depot insulation? One of the guys said at the insulation place that for sound applications, that I don't need to completely fill in the air gap? Any truth behind this? That the difference between an inch or two inches is only a couple DB? Can you elaborate? I want my insulation to be good not just in terms of sound application but thermal. I want the room to be kept cool as best as possible. For the A/C I guess I need a painted elementry picture. So are you saying the AC will blow freely like I live in there, to the direction of the lowest point in the attic. Then where the air is flowing build a duct from the attic into the studio? This entire time I pictured a duct connected to the cold air outlet of the A/C into a hole in the attic to the studio... After all this, I still need to get my damn door!

Pucks - 2x4's WILL span to every other joist - if you use too many pucks, you won't get enough compression to make them work and may as well not even use them. Please trust me on this one. Floor insulation - this isn't a wall - if you don't slightly overfill the cavities you'll create a giant drum head, and introduce resonances you won't be able to cure later - with 2x4's and pucks, you have about 4" of space. I would use either 1" rigid PLUS 3-1/2" fluffy, or go with the 6" fluffy for some compression of the material. AC - later, gotta get to work NOW... Steve