Construction Diary - Stockholm/Sweden

Thank you Brien for the clarification . :D About to turn 40 in a few hours...... so I will celebrate by being thankful for all of the guidance I received from you guys thus far!

Happy birthday...you can return the favor to me on 04/04...I think it will be 53..but who in this business can keep up with that right? :) Good luck sir,

Thank you Brien! I need all the luck I can get :wink: I have some question guys. I got my resilient channels and need to know the best way of installing them. Some of these questions might sound silly to you pros but I will ask them anyway. A) One of my walls stops when the door begins. The resilient channel creates a gap where the door begins because the studs are 145mm long (look at the door pic). How do I close the gap? Can I place drywall directly on the end of the stud (on the wood), leave a gap and then caulk or should I use 145mm strips connected to the other resilient channels (decouple the drywall from the 145mm stud piece where the door begins? Sort of like this link, even though the Auralex is installed the other way around http://www.flickr.com/photos/kindohm/214358362/#/photos/kindohm/214358439/lightbox/ I bought the Auralex RC-8 resilient channels, they have small holes that are used to screw the resilient channel(s) to the studs. B) The problem is that these tiny holes do not always line up exactly where all of my studs are ( I have them in a 600mm center distance). Can I, or is it possible to drill additional holes in order to secure the resilient channel on every stud throughout the room? I made a mistake confusing inches with feet; According to the Auralex RC-8 instructions one should place the resilient channels 5.08 cm from the ground and 15.24 cm from the ceiling and space the rest of them at least 70 cm from each other. My air duct is in the way (on the ceiling 15.24 cm part), do I construct a stud in order to insure that the drywall is supported properly?????? C) When placing drywall; what is the optimal way of lining up the 2 layers (of 15mm drywall) on the walls and on the ceiling as well as the connection of the walls to the ceiling? I got some info from the mod who guided and assisted me during the design stage, the problem is that during my research i found (what i presume to be) some contradicting facts concerning the most efficient way(s) of getting the best results (maybe I am miss understanding the info. on the diagram). Any help, comments or thoughts will be highly appreciated (they always are regardless of my stubborn nature). Here is a post I fund that deals with the subject (scroll down to the diagram with the red dots labeled corner details). http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=328 Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

"Can I place drywall directly on the end of the stud (on the wood), leave a gap and then caulk or should I use 145mm strips connected to the other resilient channels (decouple the drywall from the 145mm stud piece where the door begins? Sort of like this link, even though the Auralex is installed the other way around http://www.flickr.com/photos/kindohm/21 ... /lightbox/" Thing is your channel is installed upside down...it is going to immediately short out when gravity is applied to the mass that you install directly to it. But your corners are going to be just like a regular corner with respect to sheetrock...it will meet up fairly close, and mud/tape...or caulk/mud tape, your decision...the decoupling is the key :)

Useg Diaz-Granados wrote:

T B) The problem is that these tiny holes do not always line up exactly where all of my studs are ( I have them in a 600mm center distance). Can I, or is it possible to drill additional holes in order to secure the resilient channel on every stud throughout the room?

Your layout should have been closer to 610 mm, that would have corrected the difference...assuming there are no grommets and that all exists right now is a metal channel with machined drilled holes in it, then yes you can drill holes, but your layout is wrong and you may want to consider correcting that first, assuming it is not so much liner wall that it would put you weeks behind of your schedule.

Useg Diaz-Granados wrote:

"C) When placing drywall; what is the optimal way of lining up the 2 layers (of 15mm drywall) on the walls and on the ceiling as well as the connection of the walls to the ceiling? "

You mean what is the easiest method requiring the least amount of energy with the least amount of waste and giving the best performance? Walls are run vertical first/base layer or perpendicular to the framing that will be attached to (in this case the RC) and horizontal second layer...and so on and so forth. Ceiling is the same way, so that would mean length of board perpendicular to the joists/hat-track/resilient channel, what ever it is you are attaching to.

Thanks Brien! :) The pic on the link showing the resilient channel on the stud is not my room, I got it from the web. My room will be like Auralex recommend http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_rc8/sound_isolation_rc8.asp. As far as the drywall I think I did not formulate myself correctly. I am interested in the actual intersections (wall to wall corners plus wall to ceiling) in terms of the optimal sound isolation methods, speed is secondary,(sound caulk and how the drywall is placed) that is why I supplied the link with the corner details (the red dots). I wonder if the 70 cm spacing for the resilient channel(s) from top to bottom is sufficient or should it be less? I assume that there is no problem if the distance is less. Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

Useg Diaz-Granados wrote:

I wonder if the 70 cm spacing for the resilient channel(s) from top to bottom is sufficient or should it be less?

I do not know where you are getting this number 70cm (27 1/2 inches). This picture: http://www.auralex.com/gallery/images/rc8_2co.jpg shows most likely a 610mm (24 inches) spacing between channels which Auralex should most likely support and this document : http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/p ... /ir761.pdf will support the same thing...and many other documents from the NRC will also be in support that this spacing, all things considered, is better...and has been tested to prove as such. Hope that helps,

Thanks again Brien! It helps a lot. The inch to cm converters show 60.96 cm :oops: The good thing is I suspected it to be wrong because of the drywall sheets dimensions so I spaced them by 60cm. The space will be somewhat less on the top and the bottom because of the margins there. Have to take the weekend of for the family which means I will be back to things after the weekend. Questions: A) Still need some guidance on the corner detail and the air duct question I asked earlier because I am FINALLY getting closer to the putting up the drywall stage: The air (from the air duct) that flows into the room comes from the outside; I presume that the rest of the apartments get that airflow into their apartments which means that I need a silencer (my assumption). Once again the studs are 145mm deep, so the silencer would have to be that small. My primary objective here is to block the sound going into the other apartments (without being asphyxiated) ; since I'm obviously green in this area I would be thankful for any guidance you can provide. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Is this (if I modify the design somewhat) a sensible design that could be implemented for this particular purpose?????? (scroll down to the the fourth (4) post) http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11321&p=107399&hilit=small+silencer+design#p107399 A) 1.0 Is it possible to make the silencer inside the duct tube (place the dividers inside the tube)? http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/ventnoise3.htm http://www.lindab.se/frameset/run_frameL3.asp?LangRef=4&Area=2&topID=3&ArticleID=22313&MenuID=195&Template=../templates/a_masterweb_standard.asp&ExpandID=4588&T=39&P=22295 B) Is this a good way of screwing in the drywall? (scroll down to the bottom/it is the last post) http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1556&hilit=ceiling+caulk Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

Still would like your comments on the questions I asked :lol: Here is a VERY premature sketch of how the room might look if its doable and can meet my main objective. The ceiling cloud is NOT included in this design (the speakers sofits and the sloths are John's design). Once again; Any input would be appreciated. My gut tells me that the short distance in between the monitors might be problematic in terms of stereo imaging (thinking of moving them to the corners where the soffit begins to gain some space). I am also thinking of adding sloths in the space between the studio monitors. The bass traps will be "movable" (wheels). Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

I am going to place the studio monitors somewhat lower from the ground then on the sketch here. Here is how I am thinking I can get some distance between the studio monitors. I modified and extended the slots on John's design somewhat. Got lazy so the isolation is not on the Sketchup file. The soffits ventilation ports are not on the drawing. ...... Why does it feel like I'm getting the "silent treatment" ((sure all you pros are VERY occupied,LOL)) I have a question (to anyone that would be so KIND as to answer it); I read a BBC document that shows how to construct a sealed, air tight broadband absorber. As I interpreted the information, the bigger the air gap (100mm)that comes after the isolation the better the absorber can contain/absorb the low frequencies that might be problematic: Question) Are there any drawbacks to having a "large air gap" on the broadband absorbers or a sloth resonator? If the answer is yes; what are they?????? ...... As far as the understanding, the room would not be negatively affected by the 80 mm 50 kg per cubic meter insulation even though a big part of my sound treatment solution will be made out of slot resonators. On the theoretical front (might as well check into it before the frequency response readings are taken) it seams as though there is ALOT of sound pressure on the back and front walls on 36.5 Hz; floor and roof pressure at 71.5 Hz; front, middle and back at 73 Hz, the left and right side (long) walls at 81.7, 130.7 looks nasty since it is scattered on the floor and the roof whereas 136.8 is scattered from the left and right sides of the long wall; at 142.9 Hz the floor middle of the room and floor are affected; 146.0 through 162.5 seem to be scattered all over the place. Not being nothing even remotely close to an "EXPERT" on this field one can presume that I will be dealing with some nasty nodes (whatever that is). http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/room-eigenmodes.html This makes things a lot clearer; Eric seems to have an accessible, non-pretentious and inclusive way of explaining complex things. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=331&hilit=slot+no+wall+air+gap http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=363&hilit=slot+resonator ...... Will be interesting to see what the "REAL LIFE" readings indicate (will require a lot of willpower to understand the info WITHOUT the wisdom of the pros in this forum,,,,,,well guess I will continue my monolog, SOMETHING that I have nothing against) Have a lot of reading to do. Ya no; a little response is NOT gonna kill any one(you know like the allied planes); :wink: :!: :?: :twisted: :shock: 8) Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

After taking a CLOSER look at John's side wall absorbershttp://johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm I am considering installing them instead of the slots design that I presented. I think that Sharward send over a file some time last year so I could learn the difference between insulation and isolation (Weee :shock: that's been alot of fun!) that included this sort of absorbers. I have limited space and I will do whatever it takes to get the room to where I want it to be. The decision(s) affecting this part of the project will have to be made after the drywall is up and the analysis of the rooms frequency spectrum is complete(that is going to be a BLAST with the enormous enthusiasm and RESPONSE from the honorable members in this forum). Seriously...... I have to wait on new resilient channels since I did not get enough to complete the room. The supplier here in Stockholm states that it can take OVER 2 month's (!!!!!!) for Auralex :cen: to supply them since their entire staff going to some conference here in Europe; moments like this makes me miss the abusive starvation of certain socio-economic groups that make the US capitalist system so efficient (nothing like having the working class ((and the middle)) feeling like they are walking on hot coal in order to get things done :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ). Anyway.....Since the roars of the folks here are as loud as the morgue of a mortician operating in a Medellin in the mid 80's; I will get back into my shell and wonder; Can't we all just get along?????? Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

ouch! i'm surprised they have sarcasm in Sweden :poke: on the soffits - consider extending them all the way to the corners to maximize that corner space for trapping. maybe consider placing the speakers just a bit more to the sides to give you as much width as possible since 1m is pretty small no matter how you spin it...

Once again Glenn thank you for the guidance! :) You are making my life a little easier. I will get allot more space if I move the monitors to the corners (around 1400 mm). Stumbled across one of your old posts. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14736&hilit=monitor+distance&start=45 I have a question Glenn. How do you determine the degree of the different Saw's (noticed that the ones closest to the monitors are different then the ones standing next to them). Are there any parameters that you take into consideration in your design? Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

In general, the mains are set to the normal 30 degrees and the smaller ones and other near fields I usually set around 15 degrees. Depends on space avaiable and trying to avoid too much interference between speakers while maintaining some consistency in the angles.

Thank you Glenn :D

Happy Birthday Brien :) Have A great day! Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

I have a question concerning the Mixing Room lights. Have been looking at some light solutions. The cloud will contain three lights. On top of that there will be two (2) wall lights on the rear of the room on the side walls. My concerns regards these lights; I wonder how to most efficiently caulk in order to avoid any sound leaks AFTER (lol) the lights are installed. http://www.elnordic.se/Produkter/produkt.asp?pid=183 http://www.eldirekt.se/?cat_id=115 Could the honorable members in this forum PLEASE shine some light (shine some LIGHT......get it!)into these matter(s) (that would make me a happy camper :twisted: ). Found this links; http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5560&hilit=caulk+lights http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14794&p=110884&hilit=caulk+box#p110884 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15413&p=112223&hilit=caulk+wires#p112223 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14136&p=99518&hilit=caulk+outlet#p99518 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10153&p=72212&hilit=caulk+outlet#p72212 Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

Useg Diaz-Granados wrote:

Happy Birthday Brien :) Have A great day! Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

Thank you Sir! It was a good day!

Been chasing electricians (get the best price I can get); the only thing stopping me from putting on drywall. It is going to be a low sound cloud since it is only 2,40 cm from the ground to the ceiling after the new ceiling is in place. Need your advice Glenn on a updated Sketchup drawing I made that is based on John's saws. How do you think my skeleton looks Glenn? I was thinking of making a decoupled MDF based frame that is not coupled with the walls (like a book shelf) for the flush mount and the saws. The green thing in the middle is a broadband absorber. I was thinking of turning the six broadband absorbers on the side walls into two (2) by merging three (3) together (two larger frames) on each wall and placing lights on the sides that are facing the entrance of the mix room (by the bass traps). Have to make a wood frame to fit the led lamps right on top of the absorbers. Do I have enough room for hangers underneath the speakers? If no, can I have them behind the current speaker stand? Is it enough to decouple the monitors with rubber pads? Suppose to be slot on the saws by the way (looks like a solid tree wall now). Would you do anything different, anything you recommend?????? Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

the back wall units should be absorptive - cloth covered absorbers, perhaps with some widely space slats to preserve some HF. otherwise it looks like a good plan. i don't think you have enough space for hangers so put a layer of rigid insulation and then fill the rest with lighter (pink - 15kg/m3) insulation.

The angled wall panels, see how the second one projects into the room farther than the first? Would that need to be reversed or even make it a straight line, would this be better or no?

Thank you Glenn! I think the line now is all right Brien. If it is straighten it would hit the corner of the Saw because of the lack of room (I think). Sorry for the late response, celebrated Easter with the Family, hope you guys had a good one ! :) An update; Finally found an Electrician through a friend, I will post some pics of the room before the drywall goes up. Sincerely, Useg Diaz-Granados

Useg Diaz-Granados wrote:

Thank you Glenn! I think the line now is all right Brien.

It presents an early reflection point and can disturb the mix...

the leading edge of each saw-tooth should be absorptive. this way the reflective portion is facing to the back and the front edge is an absorber which prevents the reflection and edge diffraction.

That seems like a simple solution to a potentially irritating issue...thanks Glenn,