UAN - new Control Room build

update: Slowly ... getting more parts of this project together. With the 'design' part being worked out is so important [on a number of levels], none the least is determining the materials & labor cost so that a realistic budget can be known. From what I'm able to conclude as of now, I have a fairly good base expense laid out [spreadsheet]. Having a financial planner AND a contractor in the family has been very helpful too ... so we took the projected base costs .... and QUADdrupled it :shock: All I can say is ... nobody fainted or screamed :roll: so we now have a GO. :yahoo: The long term thinking is this ... within the restrictions of building a control room in the basement of this house, I'll be able to test several aspects, both from a business and from an acoustics perspective. I have no idea what the music business will be. Anyone that thinks they know ... well, good for them. As to this design. Honestly ... this is a somewhat different approach than what we studied back in college [in the 70's] Hidley was the 'Man'. During my years as a full time engineer, I had been involved in maybe 4 or 5 studio designs/builds along the way. Each designer had their own way ... and usually shared NO secrets. Since this project began, I've been reading the various threads [here] from others' doing their design/builds ... and have tried to learn from what advice given for the project. In no way have I been able to learn it all ... being now totally without a room to work in, I have to move on all fronts. Will trying to learn, I have to also get this structure treated, get the room built, and then get a starting treatment in place. Once I can shoot the room, then I'll know what we're dealing with inside AND how well we did on the iso. Right now it's just a 3-d image in SketchUP. I DO know how well the 10 broadband absorbers are currently doing. They have actually been a sanity saver up to this point [they are just leaning against the concrete walls] :) There is still so much to do ... and I can't wait to get into this room. So with the financing in place ... I with have the delivery of materials for 'Ceiling Beef-up' coming Monday afternoon. Having compared the various materials suggested, I decided on the FOAMULAR #150 - 15 sheets. Comes in 1" x 4'x8'. The test piece I got is working GREAT. Pushed it up into all the nails above ... holding like a charm. :D Importantly, the material is decent to work with ... no crumbling/ no smell, cuts with a razor blade, and it doesn't weight a ton. Once I get these pieces measured/cut and fit, this will be the template for the next 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. From the GreenGlue Guys, we figure 5 cases of GG, and 3 cases of Acoustic Sealant. That should be good for a start.

Question: To get electric wires into the CR, via decoupled PVC tubing [or conduit], we have to enter thru the 2 framing walls. Where is the 'best' place to do this [acoustically/isolation]? Or is it 'no place is really good', but because you have to, go with logical convenience .?. Thanks!!

Are the jpg files also from sketchup? I really like the detailed layout.

jlshelby wrote:

Are the jpg files also from sketchup? I really like the detailed layout.

yes they are. I bought the V-Ray rendering plug-in for SketchUP.

one place is generally as good as another to enter the room. typically, you can put the entry where it is most convenient to your console etc. since it is decoupled and sealed it shouldn't be a problem.

progress report .... It's been a busy couple weeks ... I even had time to work on the control room ! :shock: The first shipment of materials. 15 sheets of 1" 4x8 FOAMULAR, 80 1x3, and a 1/2 doz 2x4. AAAhhhh ... the sweet smell of lumber :) and FINALLY ... after concerns from the 'household', got the green light to remove X-bracing between the joist. Anytime you start altering structure elements [like a floor support], people will have genuine concern. Having done the homework, approval of structural engineer, and some time for the lay person to better understand what is to be done ... it finally all came together. In less than 30 minutes I had them all out without shakin' the building ! All I can say is ... about HALF the squeaking has gone away, and walking about on the floor upstairs is perfectly fine .... nobody even notices the change. I've gone in and silicon caulked all the joist 'bins'. Not sure of any difference, but it didn't hurt [ OK ... the hand and neck were a bit sore afterward :| ]. I've started cutting and installing the 1" rigid board. I first tried cutting with a razor blade, then I tried a special knife. I got to say ... I was NOT liking how this was going ... from a SAFETY perspective. The left hand was getting nervous watching the right hand with the blade. After cutting 2 piece I stopped. Today I went to Home Depot and bought a nice hand jig saw, vary speed, and a nice fine tooth blade. It cuts this board like butter, and is much, much safer. I also picked up a 10" compound miter saw & stand. We don't have that much cutting to do, but I want to have the right tools to do the job right. I also meet with contractor brother. He's been busy finishing up some rather large projects. He took me up to meet one of his suppliers. Got everything set-up for all the lumber, drywall [they have the 5/8" mildew resist in stock - and recommends for basement], and all the standard insulation we'll need, along with the ceiling tiles I need for the remainder of the basement. The extra good thing is that they'll ship in small quantities 'in house' at an appointed time. very nice. There were a couple construction technique questions that have come up that I would sure appreciate some 'words of wisdom' on. These of course come up due to concerns of isolation that maybe are handled differently. Before I ask, I think I should get some pictures or drawings together so that I can be as concise as possible. Thanks for being there !!

and once you acquire all those nice tools you can take on all those other projects you were putting off :twisted:

gullfo wrote:

and once you acquire all those nice tools you can take on all those other projects you were putting off :twisted:

my dirty little secret EXPOSED ! That's why I was planning to give the tools to my brother once the project is built :shot: No, really ... I've reserved the space in front of the CR to redo a little workshop area so that I can actually build or fix something when I need too ! 8)

Have a safe & happy holiday !! :)

It's been an eventful week or so, much of it involving medical emergencies with my Mom. Although things have settled down for her, they have more test to do while she is in the hospital. Its been very stressful to say the least. In keeping my mind occupied, I had found some time to work on the CR project. Picked up some concrete patch, and a 20lb bucket of pre-mix [just add water]. The 'patch' was to make some minor repairs to the foundation walls that had firring strips nailed from the original darkroom. There were also some minor cracks to take care of. The 'just add water' mix was to fill a mistaken Main load bearing beam pocket. They had to 'move' the pocket over, but never filled in the mistake one. Been like that since. Well it took some 12+ lbs of concrete to fill it. Mixing that stuff was a pain ... mostly in the hand and wrist. I've included a couple photos. The concrete is still drying, so it now looks like the fill is uneven, but in reality it is smooth. I also loaded many of the joist bins with the 1" Foamular. There are a couple bins that still have wires in there that I've need to figure what I can do. I had to postpone my electrician friend due to the med emergencies ... there are some lines I know I can get moved, but there are a couple that are not so easy. I included pics of one of the problem wires. The problem being, there may not be anyway to move these wires out. I need to get the foam up there before the dual layers of 5/8" drywall can go in. ANY ideas on how to handle this ??? Also ... as seen in the pic of the joist. What should I do about the 'exposed' face plate [if that's what its called] where the joist ends at ?? Thanks for any guidance !!! :)

if you cannot move them, work around them. fill in as much as you can there and make sure to seal things thoroughly. hope your mom is better.

Hi everyone, Well ... things have kinda settled down over here. We have Mom back from the hospital ... which is the very good news. The doctors have ruled out many things, but not really able to identify the cause of what was bothering her so bad. :| She still has times of discomfort, but it seems to come and go, rather than continuous. The suspicion is her having switch over to Advil. We have several members of the family [including the 1 time I took 'Liquid Advil'] that have had a very bad reaction to it ! For me, it was an intense burning in my chest ... thought I'd have to go to the emergency room. Anyway ... we are glad she's home. After having double knee replacement [which went very well], she's been through alot ! It has been hard to get much done with all this, but it looks like I can start getting back to this project. OH ... last night & today ... we get hit with nearly 4 feet of snow :shock: :cen: Somewhere in the driveway I have 2 other cars that I'm looking for. I dug mine out ... the back should be better in a couple weeks :shot: Anyway .... important question please. I have an order of 5/8" drywall coming in for the ceiling 'beef-up'. During the down time, I've been reading many threads here [especially 'Crams' wonderfully documented build - which had similar issue like I to deal with]. What I've NOT been able to find [exactly] is the best way to get these 2 layers [plus GG] up there ! My thought was ... could [or should] I use a few 2" drywall screws to pass through the 1st DW layer into the 1" Foamular and finally into the upper deck ??? I've been trying to think of a way that I can overlap the 2 layers for the best seal, and would sure appreciate how best to do this. I don't want to create an issue or make a huge blunder with this critical step in isolation. Thanks so much !!!!

you can hold it up with some drywall screws on the side on angles until you can add the cleats. or through it although it ends up being more caulking. just start each section offset by say 2' which should be enough.

First shipment of drywall coming tomorrow afternoon [for the ceiling beef-up]. Saturday the electrician returns to relocate a few remaining elec lines & phone lines. Just ordered Rod's 2nd edition book. Figuring that some things have evolved since his 2006 release, I thought it best to get. Also to extend my thanks & support. Speaking of which ... time for me to get another donation in to this site & the truly wonderful people here. Sincere THANKS ! oh .... and CONGRATS to Glenn and the mod position ! I've been following along on many of the other design & build threads for learning and inspiration. Again ... Thank-you! :wink:

cheers!

ok ... 1st shipment of drywall was delivered. Man, those double sheets are heavy! :shock: Had my electrician over last nite ... moved the remaining lines that were in the way. This morning I ordered a 'Basement WatchDog Battery Back-up sump pump', they call it the 'BIG DOG' 8) They're not cheap, but I wanted to have some type of redundant system in case of emergency. This seem a good option if the primary pump should fail, plus I'd have a catch system if the power goes out. A meeting with my 'contractor' brother yesterday. Looked over things done so far, and to the next aspect ... the beef-up. I decided to let 'Bro' take over as site contractor. He knows the people best suited for the job, and the prices. I'll stick to planning, quality control :), and handling details like caulking. Who said 2 college degrees wouldn't come useful sometime :mrgreen: Oh ... the 2nd edition of Rods' book arrived ... and got my 'donate' in to this great site, and the great people here sharing their wisdom & experience [and patience]!! Sincerely ... Thank-you!

cheers! remember to post photos from beginning to end so the voyeurs ^d^d^d^d^d^d experts can watch your work :D

yeah ... I shoulda grabbed some pics of the fork lift coming down the driveway, but when I DIDN'T see a second helper to carry this stuff in, well ... documenting the ensuing activity wasn't going to be pretty. Are there any acoustician/chiropractors on board ?!?!? :lol: Today I got my confirmation order for the 'WatchDog' sump pump ... should be here in a few. Also, had a nice talk with Eric over at the 'Sound Isolation' store. We double check my numbers and order 4 cases of GreenGlue for the room. Should be here Wed or Thur. I was also looking to order some of their Silent seal caulk, but it was suggested that a good latex-silicon caulk would be as effective. He mentioned that the new formula for the SilentCaulk is not the same as it was before the product changed hands. Hows that for customer service and honesty. We also had a talk about drywall [something he was very familiar with], and was surprised that the Type-X mildew resist was still being sold. He said that its' fine to use, but that it cost more, not shown to resist mildew anymore than regular drywall, and that its' fire rating only needed to pass 1 of 10 test ... which it did. He also suggested that local codes may be driving the continued use of it. Bottom line ... fine to use ... cost more. So there you have it :roll: Another item we talked about were the 'sway' braces. In particular, the DC-04 bracket from PAC International. No one has really screamed loudly enough, either way, as to use or NOT use them. I know my room is small, but not having built something quite like this room, I possibly wouldn't know till it was too late! The clips are $5 ea. and figure 2 to maybe 3 per wall. [i know ... pizza/beer money for the crew ... or more donations to this forum - both will happen either way] ... I just don't want to have, NOR create, a structural or isolation issue. anyway ... that's all that's fit ta print :) thank-you!

Just a fast update ... More 'supplies' have arrived ! adding to the 24 sheets of drywall, furring strips in the garage ... the 'BIG DOG' back-up sump pump is here ... got the battery & acid from Home Depot. Today ... 4 cases of Green Glue came in. Everything I've been buying lately is so d*mn heavy :shock: Playing a Christmas party Fri night :) Saturday is the starting schedule with the drywaller. The beef-up has been prepped, and is ready to get the 1st layer up between the joist! My back made the decision to hire pros to handle the drywall duties :) :yahoo: I'll be working the camera :) and the shop vac.

it's weird that way - mass is heavy :roll:

Progress report ... OK ... still have a buzz going from the smell of caulk :shock: , lets see if that last brain cell can mustard some coherent description of recent activities. Saturday the drywall guy came in. I had a stack of 5/8" in the garage waiting to go. I had already caulked where the joist and flooring meet, I had laid in the 1" FORMULAR board as a bed, covering the protruding nails. I had also discovered some cold air leaking around the sill area, so I had a another caulking session. Ready for drywall. My guy did a pretty good job I thought. He ripped through the drywall with the usual technique I've seen before ... the one were blood would be running from my fingers if I ever tried it ! But the callouses on his hands proved he'd been doing this for quite some time. It was only a few hours of work. Besides the main run between the joist, I had him cut pieces for the side on the sill, and also above the Main Load Bearing Beam. Above the MLB beam, there was only a butt end of the joist that runs to the other side, so I needed to add a furring strip so that those panels could be mounted. The new compound miter saw got its first action [even had the shop vac hooked to it] ... I was ripping pieces of lumber that I didn't even need ! :mrgreen: ... fun with power tools ... and the laser guide was spot on :) Afterward I started in with some backer rod in the sections that needed it. I used this rolling tool for repairing/mounting screens. The best $1.97 I coulda spent. It made it much easier to get the backer rod in. From then on we were caulking. I tried to seal everything I could, from seams and edges, to wires that couldn't be moved. I used caulk from DAP called ALEX PLUS. It's an acrylic latex plus silicone [white], says it's good for 35 years. Anyway ... of course, the shoulders and hands took a slight beating during this process, but I must say, even at this stage [which I wasn't sure would EVER happen] ... there has been a noticeable improvement in the isolation from upstairs! Hope to get the drywall back in the next day or two for the 2nd layer WITH GreenGlue. In the meantime I've been checking over my caulking. I did need to touch up a few seams. I'd like to have time to be sure that this 1st layer is tight before we add the next layer. Here's some pics.

that is some really nice workmanship! we'll keep your secret about the power tools being fun... :wink:

Well ... Thursday morning 10am my drywall guy comes back to put up the 2nd layer of 5/8" drywall with GreenGlue. This will be my first experience using GG. I've been trying to figure the 'coverage' map for these ~14" wide strips. 11 of them are 8 footers, and 11 of them are 5'-8". I am having to guess the squeeze bar length, since I have never used a quart size caulking gun. My wild guess is that the bar travels 10.5" ... so I thinking 3.5" [travel] per 8' strip. Anyway ... should be interesting. My drywall guy seems to have a good attitude about it 8) I knew I shoulda kept that abacus :roll:

Progress report. 2nd layer of drywall was installed between the rafters, making a GreenGlue sandwich. We did the overlap seams by some 2' as Glenn recommended. All in all it went smoothly. The GG was rather easy to apply, and posed no problem to mount. Jim, my drywall guy, was great. Without much breaks, the two of us knocked it out in about 3 hours. Next to do will be caulking the sides, mudding the screws, and then installing the furring strips. I do have 2 Christmas parties to play ... one on the Eve, and the other Sunday. Looks like I'll be working on my Xmas present Christmas day ! :mrgreen: I would like to get an insulation order in Monday, and get these bins filled ! Just one photo to post tonite.

ok ... the 2nd layer of 5/8" drywall has been GGlued, screwed, caulked, and pasted. 8) Funny ... the pictures don't look much different than the 1st layer install :roll: Next up will be the pile of furring strips .... and then more caulking :shock: I am now able to crush walnuts with my bare hands ... just in time for the holidaze :| I would like to get an insulation order in Monday. I'm thinking that the 'itch-free' attic stuff would be much nicer hanging over our heads during the building stage. Question: The depth of the joist 'bins' from the drywall to the bottom of the joist ranges from 6 1/2" - 6 3/4". The new ceiling rafters will hang about 1/2" below the existing joist. What 'R' number should I get ? And should this be 'faceless' ???" Your guidance is much appreciated ! :)