UAN - new Control Room build

cool! killz works pretty well. depending on the cloth etc you might find a deeper color works if the cloth provides the contrast or blending you desire. painting any framing which has cloth directly on it to match the cloth helps to hide it.

Hi Guys! Still having issues with the DONATE button :shock:

Progress Report ... When we last left, we were prepping for da mud. And it happened ! I was able to snap off a few photos, but I must say ... all honors to the guys that do mudding as a profession :wink: ! It was a 4 day process :shock: First was a basic tape/mud session ... took a couple hours. Next day, was mudding the tape seams about 1-2 ft wide. Day 3 was more mudding. Day 4 .... sanding. for me day 5 & 6 have been VACUUMING ! :twisted: Between the the heat AND humidity of the mud process, followed by the clean-up, all I can say is GLAD this part is done. :yahoo: We've ONLY done the inside of the CR, so we'll have a repeat show in the near :roll: Here are a few fast pix I grabbed ... nothing exciting to see, but to add documentation :D We went with the 'bullnose' corners. Grabbed a room shot. Like I said, nothing that great to look at, BUT ... my 'mudder' did a very nice job for me, and wants to do the outer wall when ready. Cleaning up the room, getting ready for the next step. In the process, I noticed a couple of areas of gaps in the caulk at the floor/wall area :shock: Maybe due to the wild temp humidity changes that happened, but whatever the reason, I was back in there with the caulk gun! [note: maybe it has been a GOOD thing that this build has been moving slowly, as it allows for catching things like this BEFORE it's to late] :cop: Monday afternoon is the scheduled 'Michaelangelo School of Art' class ... a study of color. Slight change in material plans ... they decided on 'The Gripper'. who knew ... seems a preferred favorite amongst the upper echelon ... so we splurged. It IS the 'primer' :mrgreen: Along with all this past fun ... been hitting the stores for everything from fabrics to air conditioning/venting ... oh, lest we overlook flooring. Oh yeah ... still trying to put a color scheme together ... :cen: That's all the news that fit to print !!! Thanks :D

Progress Report. First ... the DONATE button is back working ... :mrgreen: *********************** 'In a White Room ... with no treatment' .... :lol: The first coat of primer went on the walls and ceiling. :yahoo: This 'Gripper' paint ... now I know why they call it that. It DOES have some gription :wink: It does go on nice ... minimal splatter ... but it DOES have an odor :| Anyway ... although the pix don't show it, the room has, visually, brightened up ! I need to keep this in mind for the final base color for the room. Today am looking to get a 2nd primer coat on. This 'blue board' type-X drywall is still slightly visible, so we want to have a solid primer base on there [especially if I have to stay in the lighter color family for the final coats. Couple pix: Thanks!

if you went with white on white treatments you could have your own personal crazy room to recover in :twisted:

gullfo wrote:

if you went with white on white treatments you could have your own personal crazy room to recover in :twisted:

hmmm ... this COULD be a multi-purpose room after all !! :P more progress today ... Well ... I thought we were doing a 2nd coat of primer ... but apparently, I'M the only one who thought that. :shock: Anyone I mentioned it too gave me the same kinda look ... like, 'you crazy-boy' :? :oops: probably ... Anyway ... my brother showed up for 2nd round of painting ... and he TOO said ... 'you crazy', so there you have it. :| So, a mad dash to the Depot and grabbed 3 gals of Gliddens' best stuff. Although the primer white was ... bright .... it was a bit much for my karmic soul :wink: , so my color choice for the room was to lean toward the light side [Luke]. Here, too, shows another talent I lack ... and that is room interior decorating and/or colors :| The MAIN consideration has to do with the upcoming acoustical treatment that will, no doubt, dominate the room. Between all the traps and panels [covered in some type of fabric], I figured to paint the walls and ceilings in a bright neutral finish. When I through the random dart ... it hit upon 'White Clay'. About as basic of a palette as one could choose, I know ... but I went with it in a MATT finish. We did the walls and ceilings ... and I have to honestly say ... it brings a simple, understated, elegance to the room. Its' keeps the room bright, YET it is easy on the eyes 8) I'll see what I can do with fabric and wood trim for colors. Again ... looks are important ... but because of the size of the room, I need to see how much acoustical treatment AND placement that MUST be done ... and THEN go for the visuals. Really ... I'm thinking that chunky corner traps and wall/ ceiling panels might be left exposed during this early, initial layout testing. I DID pick up a few yards of fabric from JoAnns. The name of it is called 'OSNABURG'. It is 100% cotton, perm press [unbleached]. It seems to allow 'breath' to pass through nicely, and visually, I can see through it [somewhat]. It reminds of fabrics I've seen in several studios over the years [NOT that this makes it OK]. If anyone has info to share on this fabric, I'd sure like to hear about it. Anyway ... one more painting day coming up [2nd coat] ... and then buy the flooring material. It's looking like the Armstrong 'CushionStep' is the strong favorite :) Pixs coming ... THANKS!

RJHollins wrote:

I DID pick up a few yards of fabric from JoAnns. The name of it is called 'OSNABURG'. It is 100% cotton, perm press [unbleached]. It seems to allow 'breath' to pass through nicely, and visually, I can see through it [somewhat]. It reminds of fabrics I've seen in several studios over the years [NOT that this makes it OK]. If anyone has info to share on this fabric, I'd sure like to hear about it. Anyway ... one more painting day coming up [2nd coat] ... and then buy the flooring material. It's looking like the Armstrong 'CushionStep' is the strong favorite :) Pixs coming ... THANKS!

OOOPS... you really should consider treating that fabric with either a home brew fire retardant or one of the manufactured solutions such as: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1693-AA.shtml Without that spray, your fire marshal may have a problem with that fabric... and then your insurance company may get involved. As in not covering any disaster, should one occur. About your flooring decision. Obviously, do what you want, but anything that's capable of being cut, gouged or otherwise ruined with heavy gear rolling over it... WILL! I would encourage you to reconsider, and go with something that can be fixed or refinished. Roll flooring can only be removed and replaced in full rolls... which will prove to be a major PITA. My humble $.02 worth.

Hi MMax ! Hey ... thanks for the reminder and the link regarding the fire/fabric issue. :cop: I printed out the FIRETECT page to add to my shopping list. If I end up using this 'OSNABURG' fabric [if acoustically acceptable], I'll see if JoAnn's sells the retardant. yeah ... the flooring and its' endurance. Keeping that in mind for sure ! THANKS!! :)

the fabric will probably be fine acoustically. plus with neutral colors you can add colored lighting to change the whole look of the room when desired... on the retardant page: "Does not work well on acrylic, acetate, Nylon or fabrics coated with Teflon, permanent press or other resistant coatings. (A test - if water beads up on a fabric, this product will not be able to penetrate.)" so you'll want to test it...

gullfo wrote:

the fabric will probably be fine acoustically. plus with neutral colors you can add colored lighting to change the whole look of the room when desired... on the retardant page: "Does not work well on acrylic, acetate, Nylon or fabrics coated with Teflon, permanent press or other resistant coatings. (A test - if water beads up on a fabric, this product will not be able to penetrate.)" so you'll want to test it...

Ooops... didn't catch that!!! AND... it's something I hadn't really accounted for that IS seriously important. It's gotta soak in if it's going to work, right? I know that there are DIY formulas for retardant sprays. IIRC, it's not all that expensive or hard to make. I tried to find the formula on the open web, but I honestly think there should be a thread here and/or at studiotips.com. The thing you might have to do is document the purchases and photograph the process to satisfy your fire marshal. I know it's been a topic before. In terms of changing colors with lighting. Black actually can be just as effective, if not more so, than white. You wouldn't think so, but white ends up giving you more pastels, where as black gives you richer color saturation. I used fabric manufactured for the automotive industry. Specifically the fabric used for seats. It meets ASTM standards, and fortunately, my fire marshal accepted the letter from the distributor... as did the fire marshal in Atlanta, and a couple of other cities. Granted, it is somewhat questionable as to it's meeting NFPA standards, but the fact that it met with their approval means that either the fire marshal just wanted documentation, or they are familiar enough with ASTM and NFPA to agree to their use in a commercial facility as a wall covering.

the DIY formula that I've located is http://www.ehow.com/how_4705220_make-fi ... spray.html Which seems to be ... "Pour 7 oz. of Borax, 3 oz. of boric acid and 2 quarts hot water into funnel.." I went to JoAnns, ACMoore Crafts, Home Depot ... they do NOT have any flame retardant treatment. Here's a question: say the fabric for the corner traps is cotton. When you WET this fabric [with the flame retardant spray], does the fabric shrink or expand ? Since the fabric is going on a open frame [2x2] ... would it be best to treat BEFORE or AFTER mounting the fabric ? A second question ... what about the rigid 2" Knauf fiberglass that'll be stacked in the corners?

best bet is to soak it then lay it out to dry. then iron etc as desired. then install. other options including spraying it on after generally leaves things messy and soaked... if you don't put it into a dryer the shrinkage should be minimal.

gullfo wrote:

... if you don't put it into a dryer the shrinkage should be minimal.

hmm ... that's what SHE said. :| :shot: OK ... well, despite another holiday to contend with ... the 2nd coat of final color paint is complete. Still waiting for the flooring to be delivered and then get that installed. Meantime, I've started cutting some 2"x2" for the corner traps. Seen several different ideas on doing them ... basically I'd like to have 3 corner 'triangles' of 2x2's, one on the floor, one midway up, and another at the top. I'm looking to use these to suspend the rigid insulation, AND, provide a surface to mount the fabric panels to. Going to see if the 'Industrial Strength' Velcro is up to the task for that :wink: also ... been reading up on 'REW' software, and following various threads on using it. Still need to get some equipment together, but what I'd LIKE to do is measure a 'base-line; response of the empty room BEFORE doing any treatment. Looks like I have to replace my old RShack level meter ... getting screwy readings even after battery change [always more things to buy] :| Any specific links or instructions on base-lining the room are always welcomed!

Progress Report ... Once I get past Saturday, I should have time to get a few pix posted ... Had a busy week with the Band :) Doing an afternoon show on Sat ... :) In the meantime ... we now have flooring cut and in place :shock: My installer wants to wait till Sunday for the 'glue-down'. [give this fiber flooring a chance to level & adjust before getting locked down. 8) The ONLY complaint ... the smell of this new material :roll: Fans are blowing to clear the air ASAP. I'm sure the glue won't smell bad either :| right OK ... Picture proof is coming ... HOWEVER ... I do want to take advantage on the empty shell ... and 'shoot' the room using REW. Just picked up a new SPL meter from the Shack, got my ECM8000, mic cables, test speakers, etc. If I recall ... Glenn had mentioned setting up 1 monitor, placed in the front corner floor, and then in the opposite corner, ceiling, place the measurement mic. If this is ANYTHING close to how I should first measure ... then, are there any specifics I should be aware off when doing this 1st test ... like ... how close to corner boundaries should I be with the speaker AND the mic ??? 2. Should I also get a measurement from my 'start' point [38%] from front wall at ear height, with the speaker in equilateral position ???? Guidance on base-lining the room much appreciated !! :)

the corner to corner measures the overall room response. you will also measure with the mic in the listening position and the monitors in their location as well. you will use that as your starting point to find the best position for monitors and listening positions and also what needs to be done to get the overall room response reasonably "flat" and the resonance decay rates to where you want them.

Alright Glenn ... Thanks for outlining that for me ! Say ... I posted a question on another thread that didn't get a comment, so let me repost it here in my thread. It regards the 'Chunky Corner' traps. 2'x2'x2" wedges, stacked floor to ceiling. This is more for understanding, as I've not seen this talked about nor clarified as to: ? Why are the wedges stacked 'tight' to the corners ? It seems that only the front surface would be exposed to the room. Is the concept that much different compared to the broad band wall absorbers that have ALL faces exposed ??? Is one of the reasonings, that the corners are unique, in that they consist of several boundaries that [in and of themselves] raise the amplitude of the lower freqs? and because of these meeting boundaries, the 'MASS' of absorption is the critical factor ... and NOT the exposed surfaces of said absorbers ??? If the above is totally wrong ... then WHY are the chunks NOT pulled back [even an inch from the corners]. The only other possibility I can reason is that these wedges, that lightly touch the corners, are also providing some DAMPING to the wall surfaces ??? Thanks for any info that may help me better understand this part of the treatment !

Progress Report ... Floor installation is complete :yahoo: Went with the 'ArmStrong' Parquet de Luxe 2 - Natural. It is an, optional, NO GLUE flooring. Letting it lay out on the floor for 2 days allowed it to settle. The decision was to use double-sided Fiberglass tape. Got to say, this flooring is very nice. It's quiet, AND it has a little cushion to it. As you can see, the lighting is still questionable :| Anyway, I have a few left over floor pieces that will be used in the door threshold area. I wanted to wait on that till I get the jamb fully caulked at the bottom. Meanwhile, I started testing an idea for the corner traps. [this was BEFORE the flooring] Basically using PT 2x2's. The insulation used in this test was some extra ceiling tile. The real stuff will be the KNAUF 2". The 'plan' is to mount 3 of these per corner. Floor, Ceiling & midway. Hoping that this will work, AND, that it gives me a mounting surfaces for the open frames to attach to. Will see if Industrial Strength Velcro is up to the task :wink: Today, I also moved in speakers, amp, and the ECM8000 cal mic into the room for the initial base-lining. I've been trying to read up on this REW software ... I have signals going, and I have data being displayed ... but I must say, this ain't lookin' like I thought it would ! :shock: I'm not speaking of the 'data' so much as getting the proper graphing. The dB scale does not seem right ... was going for 80dB actual level in the room. As a side note ... I've seen other posts here that upload a pile of graphs. I would like to avoid doing that [if possible]. Is there a 'sticky' or something that stipulates what I should be posting from the REW software ??? I'll do more searching here and at HomeThreatreShack. I should point out that I'm using a full-range 2 channel system [no SUB]. Appreciate any help!! Thanks

... more playing with REW revealed 1 op error :| :x Now the SPL scaling is correct. I did a plot from the start mix position, with one speaker at a time, then overlayed the graphs. Gold-Left GRN - Right do I need a redo on the overall [again] with correct scale ?

i think the scale looks right. this is untreated correct? basically +/- 10db with a few nulls. on the super chunks, the positioning of it full into the corner is the only commercially tested configuration i know of. so if you wanted to experiment with moving the stack out an inch, nothing lost really. it may simply be that flush to the wall offered better support for the stack and left more room. in your space you actually have 2 back corners you can stack into which is nice plus some big absorption up top over the couch position and over the desk (generally unused space). if you have the option to post the mdat files on a file share somewhere I can download them and check rather than trying to post a lot of images (a few can be useful - frequency response, waterfall, and ETC when you get the equipment in).

Hi Glenn !! I'll look to get the 'mdat' file posted ASAP! After your last post, I started getting the corner traps together. Here are some of the important tools ... Beside the usual ones, I must say, the purchase of an electric knife was GREAT ! I mean, I ain'ts no good at cavin' up a turkey ... but this handy knife cut like butter 8) First cut the 2'x4'x2" panels in half Then a diagonal cut into wedges. After Shop Vac'ing the pieces, moved them into the room. I was surprised the change in the room 'sound' just stacking these pieces into a couple of piles on the floor. Definite drying the room down ... which it needs ! Had my 2"x2" ready, and installed the base with screws. Then proceeded to stack the fiberglass to the ~half way point, which was 20 wedges. I wanted to see how the stack holds up, so I used this first bag to fill the back corners half way. That's about all I could get to before darkness set in ... which was fine to see how this was going to work out. The stack seems VERY stable. I still want to have a middle connection point for the frame, along with preventing TOO MUCH compression on this fiberglass. [especially over time]. At this point, we are looking at 20 wedges, 2" thick, stacked to a 40" height. It looks alright currently, but those more experienced doing this technique, please let me know if you see an issue :cop: Tommarow I want to continue on the front corners [again half way up] and see how stable everything is ... PLUS, I want to hear what new sounds are emerging in the monitors !! Something quite interesting is trying to emerge [especially in the bass area]. Even though I have only 1 bag installed, the sonic change is VERY noticed :wink: Ahhh ... I'm getting psych'd ... yeah, I know I still have much to do [some MAJOR stuff], but MAN ... there was this bass note I hadn't heard [just started to peek out] in sooo long. :mrgreen: Big THANKS!!! I'm going to see about the mdat uploading! Thanks!

very cool!

Hi Glenn, It was suggested that the site 'Speedy Share' may be a suitable free service to host the mdat file. I'm giving this a try .... please let me know if this works ! http://www.speedyshare.com/files/294256 ... R_-_2.mdat Thanks!

i've downloaded it. overall the data looks good for an untreated space. it may be some adjustments in speaker and measuring position for the mix position is needed as some of the side to side measurements have some differences.

Progress Report ... We now have 'Chunky Corner' traps installed in the 4 main corners :mrgreen: I've also assembled 2 temporary monitor stands using the, ever so lovely, concrete blocks. Pix will be posted soon ... in the meantime ... we must also get the HVAC system finalized. From what it looks, the duck-less mini-split stills seems the better option for my situation. Due to short ceiling height, and limited access, here is a unit being considered: "Sanyo 11,900 BTU Wall Mount Low Ambient Air Conditioner Kit" here's a link: http://www.minisplitsystems.com/cgi/dis ... um=12KLS71 It's been suggested that a 'Low Ambient' model is best for those of us who have winter longer than summer [it seems :| ] , and that for a 12'x16'x7'+ room, that this BTU rate should be enough. Also the ♦ Operation Sound Indoor Unit, Hi 36 (dB-A) Medium 33 (dB-A) Low 29 (dB-A) ♦ Operation Sound Outdoor Hi 47 (dB-A) seems like as low as I've been able to find [although the A-weighting is not much help]. Anyway ... just wanted to fly this out there for comments or experience ... or even a better choice! As always ...... BIG THANKS. BTW .... there has been an incredible transformation in the rooms acoustics :shock: :mrgreen:

very cool! on the AC - consider some commercial plenums inside the room to expand the air volume before flowing in - say an 8" duct into a (eg) 48" wide plenum 16" deep, 6" high, will reduce the air velocity quite a bit and make it quieter and also disperse it more. the plenums are aluminum or light steel boxes with a wide air diffuser across the face or bottom. they bolt up onto the ceiling. you would fit them in-between clouds and lights etc as needed.