UAN - new Control Room build

Tonite I had a chance to run an REW session to include the 3 hardbacked clouds. Left monitor screenshot: Right monitor screenshot: I've also attached the .MDAT file from REW http://www.speedyshare.com/files/300824 ... ouds_.mdat Hope some sense can be made from this shoot ... I am still quite the novice at using REW. Thank-you for your time and insights !!!!

I tried downloading your mdat file to take a look, but REW tells me that the file is not the correct format. What version of REW did you save that with? I tried downloading the latest version of REW, and also downloading your mdat file several times, but it still works out the same: invalid format. Anyway, what specific issues are you having with your room? The graphs you show don't seem all that bad, but I'd be very suspicious of the validity for those curves below about 50 Hz or so... I doubt your speakers go that low anyway, or your measurement mic, and even then data for the very low end is hard to measures accurately, and hard to a analyze. I'd really like to take a look at that data, and see what it looks like. - Stuart -

hmmm ... I'm going to check this out right now !!! The REW version is: v5 build 2142 [Windows]. My file [here] loaded fine .... Maybe something wrong with the uploaded file ?!?!? I'll DL it and see. Thanks! ------------ edit ---- OK ... just dl'd the file from the link above. It showed that it has NOT been downloaded before ... so I did. Loaded fine here ! Let me know ... would much appreciate your observations ! Thanks

The REW version is: v5 build 2142 [Windows].

Yup, same as my version.

It showed that it has NOT been downloaded before ... so I did.

Figured it out! Stupid Firefox was downloading the LINK to the file, not the FILE itself! :twisted: Downloaded it manually... Seems to be OK now... - Stuart -

Here you can see the 'long legged' HD - 1/4" Snap toggles installed. The rating on these guys is 265 lbs [in 1/2" drywall]. Since we have 1-1/4" drywall up there, these should be plenty to handle these 70lb clouds [4 toggles per]. Should be fine. But just for future reference, that rating is performed on the downward thrust with the Snap toggle being placed on a vertical piece of sheathing. The difference between the ability to "crush" the 1/2 sheathing in a vertical position versus the ability to pull it out of an overhead placement reduces these numbers. Still, should be fine, but I do not know why people do not locate the over joists to attache to OR install a layer of OSB on the ceiling to eliminate this kinds of risky concerns.

you might consider bring the front clouds down more and angling more and the overhead one a bit more as well. you can see the clouds are forcing the response to smooth out but there are are still deep nulls - 116hz in particular where the side wall response may be skewed because the measuring mic is a mono source which is narrow compared to your head which (hopefully) is much wider. so you will still need more absorption - esp when you get better monitors with better LF output. near fields tend to like the additional bass support by being closer to the front wall than not but different speakers will behave differently. peaks in LF can be trimmed by EQ to finalize the response so your mixes/masters translate. on treatment - consider the space over the front wall-ceiling corner a candidate for super chunk trapping behind the clouds. i'm also guessing the speaker positioning needs some tweaking - i saw Eric's comments on this as well as Stewart's and with near fields which are situated in an open room, tweaking the positions as well as your seating position will make big differences. generally i like to shoot 16-24" behind the listener head but balance that with the 37-43% position and width - adjust angles of the monitors to achieve best LF and image - esp on near fields. lastly, if you are just shooting the room response, put a speaker in a low corner up front and the measuring mic on the opposite corner in the back up the room up near the ceiling - point the mic down. then run your sweeps to get the overall picture of the room and repeat this with speakers and mic on the other side so you have corner-to-corner measurements.

Once again ... Thanks Glenn for your analysis and next directions! We are on a bit of a delay, as a number of gigs have lined up with my band and several other groups that I've been ask to play. This has been a very NICE problem to have :D In the meanwhile, I've been spending time listening to the room. The NEXT big thing to happen will be installation of the new Mitsubishi Mini-Split system that I have sitting in the garage. Tuesday, the installer is coming in to review the install and see to it that we have everything needed ... looking to install Friday. On ANOTHER front ... we'll be looking at the electrical feed into the room proper. SOUNDMAN 2020 !!!!! I've been following dialog in another thread where you've just mentioned the LEGRAND conduit wire system. This is very much the way I've been looking to go ... and will ! I do have a question on this ... It has to do with the INITIAL penetration into the room ... and THE best way to maintain the required 'de-coupling' from my inner and outer framed walls. I would LIKE to keep to a single feed into the room [if possible], and then spider around the room [this might not be too practical], as I really prefer 2 separate feeds to handle lighting and then audio. Again ... it's the area between the walls that I'm not clear on. Should it just be the plain wire going through ... or should I have that enclosed, YET, decoupled [and HOW would I best accomplish this]. Of course, this question is opened to all our experienced ones :mrgreen: Thanks everyone !!!

If you can, the best place to bring the power feed into the room is through conduit embedded in the floor. If not, then it will have to come through a wall somewhere, and how you do that depends on local code. Here in Chile, it MUST be in conduit: no choice. Where you live, you might have a choice about conduit or not. Personally, I prefer conduit, since it makes changing things easier in the future. If you want to run another circuit for whatever reason in a year or so, or maybe just replace the feed with a larger section because you need to draw more power, or whatever, then conduit make it easy to do that without damaging your walls or isolation at all: just pull the new wiring through the existing conduit. But if you don't use conduit, you will have to damage the walls to change anything. That's my reasoning. But that brings up the issue of how to decouple and seal the conduit: Decoupling can be accomplished by cutting a short gap out of the conduit and wrapping that gap with neoprene rubber. Sealing the ends can be accomplished by stuffing a short length of insulation into the end of the conduit (a couple of inches) around the wires, then applying a dab of caulk over the end. That way if you ever need to pull more wires, you can carefully peel off the caulk, pull out the insulation, and proceed as normal. Of course, your wall penetrations should also be sealed well, with putty packs, and staggered by a couple of feet to maximize isolation. That implies curves in the conduit, of course, but such is life! In other words, make the penetration of the outer leaf close to the ceiling (for example), then inside the wall cavity curve the conduit down a couple of feet, make your neoprene-wrapped gap, continue down another few feet, then curve again to make the inner leaf penetration. Or some such plan. Now, if you REALLY want to go overboard with isolation, this is one of the very, very few cases where MLV might actually be useful: you could wrap the entire length of the conduit in the cavity with MLV (except for the gap, of course), if you are really concerned about isolation... But that's probably overkill. - Stuart -

as the hectic schedule continues .... a brief studio update: Patiently biding their time in the garage, we have part of the studio 'environmental control' system. The MITSUBISHI MSZ & MUZ - FE12NA Mr Slim Heat Pump. It delivers 12,000 BTU cooling and heating, with a SEER rating of 20.5 The inside unit has a noise rating from 19 - 45 dB(A). This afternoon, my installer stopped by to review the site and installation requirements. He is both a certified electrician & HVAC & plumbing. The unit is a 220v design. From many years back we had a built in pool, with electrical runs into the garage. This was a separate service. All indications are these lines can be converted. One circuit converted to 220v .... the other to be routed back into the basement to then be sent into the control room for either the audio OR the lighting needs. We reviewed the need to seal ALL penetrations into the room, and looked at the only real placement for the internal unit to be mounted on the back wall of the control room. This will provide a direct run out of the control room, through the remainder of the basement, straight to the outside unit. The drain for the inside unit will go straight to the sump pump that is in line with the run. To seal ... he mentioned that they usually, first, caulk the area ... and THEN apply a sealing putty [clay]. He believes that this would also work on the holes made in the control walls. So .... 8 AM Friday morning, the next step ! :) After this .... we look at the fresh air/ exhaust feeds. :yahoo:

Progress Report .... Well, Friday morning came very early for me ... or it was just another late nite Thursday :? Anyway ... after an hour delay, my installers came in to handle the new HVAC mini-split. There was HOPE that a electrical outlet in the garage [that use to feed a built-in swimming pool filter, heater & lights] was still working. To my dismay, it was determined that the boxes had been completely disconnected BOTH at the fuse box, AND somewhere out in the yard :( So .... we had to go to the other side of the house to pick up the original tap from this circuit, and run a completely NEW line over to where the mini-split was going to be. :roll: So ... while THAT was going on, the hammer drilling through the building into the basement proceeded. This is where the coolant lines & electrical would pass through. Of course ... hammer & chisel were involved. Inside the control room, we mounted the holding plate centered on the back wall. With the coolant lines in place, it was time to goop up the connectors & attach. Then came out several gauges, compressor, and monitor. Since these were going to test the lines for a couple hours .... LUNCH BREAK ! :P Returning ... all connections tested .... it was time to get the 220 line fed in. Here's the outside unit. And a view of the inside unit mounted to the back wall. With a working system, it was time to address the holes we just put in the wall. This 'stuff' is very nice !!!

This is a dense putty, that stays flexible ... and is actually nice to work with! I was able to stuff this putty in from BOTH sides of the interior wall. Not a great pix, but you can get the idea. These various pipes run straight into the back chunky corner trap. I'm going to have to modify ONE of 2" wedges so that it can flush with the rest. [Pix coming soon]. Well ... considering many things, I thought we ended up with an acceptable compromise. 1st, 2nd, & third impression ... When I went outside to HEAR the compressor ... I though it was broken or NOT working :shock: Upon closer inspection, I could see the fan spinning ... but I couldn't hear the unit. We DID have a slight breeze that afternoon ... and THAT was masking what noise this unit could muster ... Inside the control room, they had the unit running ... now THIS I was able to hear ... however the BREEZE nearly blew my hat off ! just kidding ... they had it on TURBO mode or something. When we set the fan speed down to MED the sound was MUCH lower ... and THEN we knock it down to LOW speed ... the sound drop significantly. IF you listen for it, you can lightly hear it. I'll get some measurements just out of curiosity. [it is rated at 22 dB(A)] I must say, all in all, this Mitsubishi system seems WELL worth the cost. I'm NOT certain how much 'heating' I'll need this winter ... but it's nice to know it's available. PLUS ... with the 3 different filters in this unit ... the AIR quality in the entire basement just got a whole lot better! :mrgreen: so much still to do ... but as of this moment ....... :yahoo:

Good to see progress, and great that it is working so quietly! - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart ! Always GOOD to have you looking in !! :mrgreen: Hey ... got a technical question regarding studio furniture ... particularly ... the DESK. OK ... I need a plain ole desk in my room to set computer keyboard & monitor on. Of course, this will go smack dab centered between speakers. My question, whether I buy or build is, SHOULD I go for a desk that is, basically, OPEN at the bottom ????? or one that is closed in around the front and 2 sides ??? My 'guess' would be, the OPEN design [basically a board on 2 support legs] and all the sides open would be the LESSER of the evil as it pertains to room acoustics and IMPORTANTLY sound stage imaging. [realizing that ANYTHING will cause unwanted issue]. Sure would like to hear thoughts on this !!! Thanks!

OK ... now that the temperatures in the control room are ... in 'control' :lol: I know need to get the next HOLE put into the walls for the electrical feed. Over this weekend, I looking to have my electrical buddy stop in to address this. We've been talking about the conduit through the wall [to get the feed in], and designing the layout for the 'surface mount' conduit runs inside the room. He is concerned about the conduit thru the wall, and the BIG issue he knows about the transmission of sound thru these tubes. In his experience, he tells of how clearly voices can be heard through this conduit with runs of 200 ft !!! Yes ... understood that we can decouple inside the wall, AND that we can stuff the ends ... however ... providing a path for the sound to travel through is making me wonder, WHY do I even want to go that route. SURE ... we must penetrate the double walls ... I'm thinking that we should maybe bang the conduit idea [in the wall]. I need 2 lines [1 for audio, 1 for lights] ... AND I would like, at least 1 spare. So I'm thinking of feeding 3 lines through the walls [offset from each other], and concentrate on sealing the holes. Since the outer wall is still without drywall installed, I can easily get to the back side of the inner wall to get a 'double' seal. Then, when the outer drywall in place, I can get a seal on this outer surface. What cha think GANG ! :?: As for the need to get 'data' lines to external servers [if going that way] ... my 'guy' does NOT want the data and electrical together ... so we would need a 3rd hole near the front of the room for that. ok .... other areas of consideration/ compromise :| Ceiling Treatment. Right now I have 3 hardbacked clouds in place. As Glenn instructed earlier, I'm going to need to alter the heights and slope angles on these for, hopefully, better performance. For the remainder of the ceiling, the design calls for 5 more panels to go up. My understanding is these are 'soft' broadband panels. The dilemma [compromise]. I've been looking through the absorption charts on Bob Gold's site: http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm and trying to balance out treatment to practicality :roll: The 2 issues ... a door that swings INTO the room ... and ME ... walking around. We are now in the 'traffic' area of the room [with the very limited height ... and me being of the taller persuasion]. At BEST ... I have, MAYBE, 3" of depth to work with [before the door will clip the panel]. SO .... I realize the MOTTO ... ya gotta work with what ya have [or have NOT] ... so I need to consult the PROS to ensure I get the best bang for the effort. to be continued ... .... and he's back ! so ... here's what I'm stinkin' :? I have the Knauf 2'x4'x 2" panels. I can mount these to suspend about an inch off the ceiling, maybe a bit more ... but not much. The 'thinking' is that have some space separating the panel from a surface is better than flat mounting. Is this correct ? Keeping this in mind ... I know that I still need more absorption treatment. I'm particularly looking at the side wall/ ceiling 'corners' as candidates for trapping. I can also look at the front wall/ ceiling corner to get some trapping up there. The back wall 'may' have some possibilities ... but I need to be mindful of the mini-split. Anyway ... could sure use some perspective on these ideas ! Thank-you ! oh ... the question on the desk ... thoughts ?!?!

desk - consider using the smallest one possible for your gear - open as much as possible but also plan on putting an absorber on the front of it to kill off the floor reflections. plan on angling the top of it 6° if possible. consider a "mastering desk" which contains only the gear you need most and some racks symmetrically placed on either side or behind you for the rest. on the absorption - 4" is better but 2" and hanging it down 1" may be your only option. on the conduit - having the openings on separate sections of the walls and decoupled in the middle to avoid hard contact between the walls, as well as sealing it will work fine and allow you flexibility later.

Hi Glenn !!! Big THANKS for stopping by [on whats' been a busy time for you]. Hope ALL is going VERY well !!!! Just read through your latest message. As always ... most valuable [and appreciated] information ! Between the busy band schedule [we placed in the Top 5 for the State ... our bass players' wife made 'Runner-UP'. Personally ... glad we don't have to compete in the out of state regionals ... just don't have time for that :| I DID get to do some further work on the room 8) The remaining 'soft' clouds have been assembled and installed. It did have to make the compromise at THIS point, by going with 2" panels mounted off the ceiling. And now that I have my saw back, I'll be mounted the 2 rear wall panels [2x4' x 4"] just like the other's being 4" off the surface. Then, to figure a secure wall to get a panel on the inside of the door ... got some ideas there. I've NOT yet adjusted the hardback cloud depth, nor angle. I first wanted to get ALL of your initial treatment in place, and then re-shoot the room to see what we have. I can definitely attest to the dramatic improvement in listening just to the radio through my very old Altec monitors. The addition of the soft clouds did a significant improvement to the sound stage. The side phantom imaging has really come together!!! Yes ... I figure more treatment will be in order, but it is very exciting to hear now !!! l'll get some pix posted soon !!! Thanks again my designer friend !!! :yahoo: Sincerely.

Progress Update !! First off ... fell behind on my 'Donations' ... was able to send a small 'token' of THANKS :) OK ... it has been quite busy around here, and have had to sneak in some time for the Control Room. The addition of the HVAC unit has been a blessing to actually be able to do any work :mrgreen: A few weeks ago, I was able to get back on the remaining 'soft backed' ceiling clouds. Had to make the tough decision, due to limited ceiling height, opting to go the 2'x4'x 2" design for these panels. :| Even with this compromise, the change in the room acoustics was dramatic !!! [in a GOOD way]. Here's the build: Since these were thinner panels, I needed to use a different style of 'corner bead' to expose as much of the sides of the panels as possible. I was waiting until these panels were mounted off the ceiling before re-shooting the room. Panels are now up ... shoot to follow. :) With the Mini-Split installed ... with another compromise ... I had to send the tubing into the rear corner bass trap area. So we had to make a slight modification to 1 of the panels in order to go around the tubes. Next event ... Getting the electrical lines into the room. Not much available in the picture department ... but I tried to follow all the advised procedures to minimize flanking, and sealing all intrusions. We ended up running lines into 2 sections of the room. One area was by the door entrance. All surface mounts. The initial idea was to get 2 lines into each section. 1 active, the other as back-up or addition. Foremost, I wanted to get the box in the room and get the lines run so that I can seal the penetration [duct clay] from BOTH sides of the interior wall. For the time being we have an open box & a pair of outlets just to plug stuff into. The second electrical location was in the front of the room. Again, 2 lines brought in. These are to handle audio. All electrical holes were sealed & clayed from both sides of the interior wall. Next up I wanted to have a 'through the wall' conduit that would allow me to pull 'low voltage' lines through. We did this a little different than the electrical feeds. Again with the compromise :| So, with having only 1-1/2" space between the front wall plates [dual wall] ... I wanted to run conduit BETWEEN the walls but NOT let conduit hard connect to both walls [frame]. Ended up using 1" conduit, combined with 2 - 45* turns [to soften the angle] ... and then run the 'split' long tube diagonal across the walls to the top area of the outer wall [again with 2 - 45* angles. So, coming out of the inner wall: Then you can see the diagonal run. to be continued :)

A close up of the split section connected with a rubber adapter: Although it's difficult to see in the pic ... here is the concept that I used. The 'rubber' adapter is the split point between both the conduit AND the wall in which they contact. The split between the 2 pipes is ~ 1" ... the secure straps are placed so that below the adapter is held to the interior wall, while above the adapter is held to the outer wall. Tapping on the frames or the tubing showed that this worked well :) Surprisingly ... the level of sound that travels through the tube is extremely 'slight' .... :shock: Nonetheless ... I have another wad of duct clay to plug the holes. While assembling this conduit run through the wall, we fed a 'pull line' using this: From the outside tube you can see the line: For now, in the control room I have the full canister sitting on the floor. BTW .... should anyone need ... I have 500 FEET of this pull line ... :shock: I maybe need 30' to handle more than I need. Just let me know :shot: Coming up ... We have drywalling scheduled to go up on the outer walls AND, we have a qualified assistant that I'll be helping with fabric'ing the corner trap frames AND the ceiling clouds. I have 25 YARDS of 4oz batten and fabric. His 'mom' is a long time seamstress ... knows the formula for 'flame retardant' treatment of the fabric [which she is doing] :mrgreen: as we start to make the room look nice. Room shooting is coming up since the 'basic treatment' in nearly all in place [according to Glenn's design] WHICH, btw ... people kinda freak the first time they come into the room :mrgreen: Once again ... thanks for following along with my journey ... and much appreciate the observation from our Gurus ! Sincerely.

Lookin' good! :) - Stuart -

definitely looking good! once you get the outer drywall up, thump on the walls a bit to see if you have any structure transfer (or perhaps do it now and see if you can feel it in the outside frame - probably need an assistant unless you can run really fast :-))

gullfo wrote:

definitely looking good! once you get the outer drywall up, thump on the walls a bit to see if you have any structure transfer (or perhaps do it now and see if you can feel it in the outside frame - probably need an assistant unless you can run really fast :-))

Progress Report ... It's been awhile since I've been able to post any updates ... but we have been getting things done. It's just the list CAN seem endless :roll: OK ... where we last left off, the data conduit pipe had been installed. While I had helpers here, I was able to do some testing to see/hear if any 'structural transfers' were taking place. The main issue we found was that talking into the open pipe could be heard [megaphone] on the other end. This was rather expected. I placed a bit of 'duct clay' over the inside hole, and that helped. However ... thumping on the clay with a finger DID transfer ... kinda like a small tabla [I'll keep this in mind for my next percussion piece] :| Again ... this was expected. Once we have cables pulled, we deal with a better stuffing solution. Now the inner/ outer walls ... Having clay sealed the 2 electrical feed areas, & the data conduit on the back of the inner leaf, I was able to staple the outer wall insulation into place [JM 3-1/2" 22.5"w]. [oh, I also did some vacuuming between the walls to clean that up] :) With that, came time to get the 5/8" drywall mounted on this outer wall. Here is the view that is outside of the CR front. Much the same hanging technique that was used on the inner walls. We also hung drywall on the outer side wall ... UP to the door [no pix as yet]. The remaining walls [other side of the door] have only insulation in, as this is there area that ventilation is going. Checking for 'transfer noise' between the walls. I don't have any measurements, but I can say that the isolation is very high. I still need to go in an caulk the outer wall edges, along with tape/mud seams ... so more testing to come. One BIG surprise ... tapping on the walls ... The sound difference between the single 5/8" outer wall layer COMPARED to the inner walls 2 layers of 5/8" along with the 2 tubes treatment of Green Glue is quite dramatic! :shock: 8) OK ... more things to post ... just gotta get my pictures transfered.

.... and he's back ! got a few more pix to document recent activities ... Panels, Corner Chunky Traps and ....... Fabric. First, a word of advice ... don't ever shop JoAnn's fabric anywhere near the Halloween season. Couldn't understand why the tents & sleeping bags out the sidewalk :shock: There I am, in line, with a bail roll of 4oz Polyester batting ... this thing was HUGE ! When my turn in line came up ... everyone had left the cutting table :| It's a conspiracy I tell ya :cop: Finally they show up ... I need about 30 yards of this stuff. So together, she's unrolling & measuring, and I'm rolling up the slack. Just before she cuts, I peer around the roll & question .... 'Is this a measure twice, cut once scenario' :shot: She looked at me STUNNED :shock: This ole lady waiting in line calls out ... 'Oh no, I was counting right along with her!' God bless ya :D With my 50% off coupon [via iPhone], the checkout lady just looked at me with, hmmm, the same look I got before when buying fabric .... she doesn't even WANT to know what I'm making. Then it got to her ... 'What are you making?' She decided to accept my explanation. I think :? Some GOOD fortune ... my good bud that was coming to do the fabric procedure ask 'his' mom for help [she had just finished making some of the most incredible Halloween costume for the kids] said that she would handle the fire-retardant treatment for my fabric :) She has been doing this for years and had lots of experience. That was great. Back at the Control Room, the covering of the panels began. I have a few pix of the process. I TRIED to stay out of my buddy's way during all this ... he wanted no pictures ... but I still snuk a few. Corner traps ... first were covered in the batting Stapled into place ... then the fabric ... pictures later. Hardbacked Clouds. Started off with some cloth tape on the metal edges to soften them down. Wrapped in batting & stapled to the plywood back. Then applied the fabric cover ... The 'Soft' Clouds required a different fastening technique. Again, cloth taped corners Followed by batting And then fabric. The pictures show the rough work done ... To come were the clear glueing of the corner edges, etc. Since we had NOTHING to really attach the fabric to .... hmmmm a design FLAW :horse: We ended up using this stuff called 'Gorilla Tape' :shock: Man ... is this stuff 8) Also, my search for a fabric attachment solution at JoAnn's went ........ well .... I think I better wait till NEXT months coupons come out before I show my face there :lol: OK ... as we stand at the moment. All corner traps have been covered. All panels covered. All Clouds covered. I have the 'door' panel on the work bench ... of course, this panel will require a different method of both hanging & covering. Got an idea that I'm gonna try. Only way I'll know if it's gonna work. Wish me luck :) Pictures of the 'new' look will be coming soon ! to a theater near you ! Thanks for following along !

Cool! Pics! So it DID happen! :) But I'm surprised you didn't at least get cloth with a pumpkin print on it! Very disappointing... :) Nice work, by the way! Looking good.... - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

But I'm surprised you didn't at least get cloth with a pumpkin print on it! Very disappointing... :) - Stuart -

Yeah ... that's just what they needed ....... security :cop: I'd end up having to knit covers for all my broadband absorbers :lol: I was gonna get this book 'Knitting Afghans' ... But it wasn't what I thought :shock: :shot: anyway ........ Time for another 'Progress Report'. Getting down to the final panel as prescribed by 'Glenn' in the original design. This one was for hanging on the door. As with the many tasked that must be done, the door 'panel' would require a unique solution for mounting. I needed to hang this 2'x4'x 4" panel so that it suspend 4" off the door. Yet, in a secure way as to prevent it from moving, bouncing, or shifting when the door was being used. Considering several different ideas, here's what I did. [This is NOT to say this was the best solution ... or that an easier, more effective way would have been more apparent ... it was more of a 'reasonable' idea that I wanted to try and then see how it would work out. After loitering in many a hardware store :P I found a pair of bookshelf brackets that had potential. As my broadband panel had be mounted inside a 'cage' made from drywall corners, I did NOT have alot of surfaces to support it. The idea was to see if I could slip these shelf brackets underneath the cage between the top edge and the rigid insulation. Well, the brackets would hold it ... but I wanted something a little better. I took a T-bracket, and bent it 90* , and then attached it to the top edge of the shelf bracket. Now I had a wider surface to spread the weight [approx 18lbs]. After testing, I then went ahead and mounted the brackets to the door. With the solid core door being 1-3/4" thick, I was able to use a 5/8" wood screw to firmly attach the bracket a 3 points, yet NOT mess up the door 8) The 2 brackets easily hold the weight of the panel, so now I needed a way to suspend the bottom of the panel. I took a small plate of aluminum, and tucked it into the bottom corners and marked it. With the appropriate size, I cut 2 plates. From a 'sample wafer', I centered a 1-1/8" slice of a wooden dowel, mark it off ... and then tapped it. Drilled a hole, and then with a 1" drywall screw, attached a 4" long wooden dowel to the plate. Assembled as 'mirror images ... this is what I ended up with. With the weight of the panel hanging from the 2 brackets, I was able to slip the stand offs into the two bottom corners. I know these pix are not that good ... but I hope it gives the idea alright. Ok ... temporarily, I put some 'spongy' material where the dowel touches the door ... just so I could test this idea. I gotta say ... the panel is very secure ... it does NOT shift, AND it can withstand attempts to move it around ... it IS by the door handle, which I tried to keep enough distance so that knuckles would be assaulted every time you went for the handle 8) The final part of this will come after we get this panel covered in polyester & fabric. I had picked up some 'INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH' velcro. No, I gotta tell ya ... this stuff lives up to its' billing :shock: Without having to put any more holes into the door, this Velcro has an adhesive backing on both pieces that will be applied to the door and the dowel. It will only need a small piece to do the job. Anyway ... that will be coming up. Next up ... I did another room shoot with REW now that the basic panels are in place. I'm still using the tired out Altec speakers from the '60s' ... must ... buy ... new ... speakers. I don't know ... the resulting graphs ... I really need some help evaluating what REW is seeing. I'll get the REW file posted soon ... with more pixs. Thanks for following along ...and thanks for keeping an eye on me and my efforts !!! Sincerely.

Progress Report ... Well, the time had arrived for me to shift out of my temporary work area. This meant moving into the control room with a temporary work 'desk' [if I can call it that]. The old desk I was using is in rough shape ,except for the top plate. The desk is from the 1950's [i'm guessing]. It is a secretarial desk, with a pull-up [spring loaded] table that would have held a manual typewriter. Not sure, but seems to be made from birch or maple. One thing I'm certain ... the desk is VERY HEAVY :roll: After clearing it off, we got the desk on its' side, and found that the top plate could be cleanly removed ... so we did !!! I'm gonna hang on to the drawers ... maybe I can use 1 or 2 of them. I also had bought some used metal desk legs that should work in converting this to a new, 'open' style desk. Currently the desk top is 5' wide, 34" deep, and 1-1/2" thick. Hopefully I can make this work nice. The rest of the desk has been taken to the street. Today my buddy came over and finished covering the broadband absorber for the door. I'll post some pics later, but basically the same batting & fabric covering. The 'mounting' design that I outlined earlier has worked out very well 8) With that, I have completed the 'initial' acoustical treatment that Glenn had set forth in his original design. I had re-shot the room JUST before moving my computer and temp workspace into the room. I will re-shoot again with these things now in the room. From the REW data ... which I'm still needing to learn more how to read and interpret, I can see that there are some areas of concern. Listening to CD quality music ... even through these battered ALTEC monitors is quite something !!! In the next day, I have to make arrangements to get some new speakers to evaluate. It has been suggested to audition the FOCAL SOLO 6be. All I know of these monitors are the varied opinions that seem to state either 'love' or 'hate'. All I know is that I would like to stay under $3k [us]. I understand that the SOLO's also have an optional 'sub', but I've never worked with one, and have concerns that I'd ever want to. What I do know is that I want 'surgical' monitors that will tell me the truth. I'm certain that I'll need to do further treatment [at least I'm mentally preparing for that] ... but I also need a good monitor so that I can shoot the room with a better source! [kind of a catch-22]. Nonetheless ... I'll get the REW files posted ... and really hope that our GURU's would extend their valued time and critique where I am acoustically. I also will post up some pics of the room as it currently is treated. Hopefully soon ..... Thanks!!