UAN - new Control Room build

nice door! i would go with the lighter color wood on the floor. keep some LED for mood lighting around the edges since you can get them in a variety of colors... :mrgreen:

Progress report ... I'm happy to report that a door now resides in what was once, 'open space' .... for a very long time. It all started when my ORIGINAL carpenter called to say that he could stop by to check things out ... I know ... I was shocked too :wink: Since it had been some 6-8 weeks since we last talked, we needed to review the construction plan. The door design by GLENN [a hybrid of the Super Door], is what we tried to implement. So let us begin. Framing needed to be added. Since we had the door delivered, we had the exact final measurements. What I wanted to maintain was the ability for the door to swing a bit over 90*, and still allow a panel absorber to NOT hit the back corner wall, yet STILL have the door as far down that side wall as possible due to room size limits, potential seating position, and internal acoustic treatment. We basically settled on a good 10" spacing off the back corner. So the new framing starts: I do NOT have a complete set of pix of the initial build ... what we have is a 'split jamb' consisting of approx 4" and 6" sections. We framed onto the plates a 2x4" and a 2x6" for each section respectively. Behind them are several 2x4"s. At the top, we had to deal with 2 different wall/ceiling heights, so we had to even things out with a 1x4 & a 2x4. Then, of course we were able to cut the 2 bottom plates. Prior to all this, we had added floor isolated anchors to the plates at this opening to prevent any possible shifting. When we DID cut the plates, I was surprised at how well the caulking under the plates had adhered :shock: The 2 jamb sections were then separated, and we slipped it into place. We had about a 1/4" spacing to play with. What we needed to do was notch this frame to allow a 5/8" protrusion under the MLBB to line up flush with the outer drywall. So markings were made, the frame disassembled and notched. After the cuts, reassemble, and then put into place ... it was time to bring in the larger section with the door. I should mention ... my carpenter was still hurting [rotator cup injury], and I needed to stay focused and help whenever I could. but PRIOR to these jambs going in, he had laid out a level with some wedge sticks. He marked 'them' and the floor. When it came time to put the 2nd jamb section in, the one side was placed on these wedges. Again ... the section slipped into places nicely, and the level was dead on 8) Securing the jamb to the frame, we used 'SPAX Construction Screws'. Since we had no stops on the door we lined it up for a temporary one. A few various shots: The door opens great ! There is clearance from the floor that will allow for the fiber flooring to go on without issue. The 'roller latch' holds the door closed much better than I thought it would :yahoo: Later I got to the details of sealing the new area ... started with backer rod around the jamb [where I could] ... I post those later. Big day with a MAJOR accomplishment ! My carpenter made it look so easy.

Progress continuation ... Once the door was installed, it was time to address sealing the split-jamb, and any additional issues. The handle side of the jamb got a thin stuffing of backer rod ... I went around the entire jamb adding backer rod as required ... as yet, I didn't sink it to final depth ... but that will happen before I caulk the jamb to the framing. Next was to deal with the 'split' between the two frames. I was unable to find a local supplier for any 1" rigid fiberglass, but the closest material I found were these 2'x4' acoustic ceiling panels. They have this sort of plastic finish over the rigid fiberglass ... the plan was to peel this plastic skin off ... With that idea working, I stacked 3 small pieces on the floor between the 2 bottom plates on both sides. I then cut 1 strip that would slip between the 2x4 and 2x6 studs that the 'split' was exposed to. The piece was about an 1-1/2", which brought it out to the edge of the studs. This piece held in rather nicely. Then I cut several wider strips that I wanted to place flat against this 'vertical' piece. It's hard to tell in the photo ... but the first piece is in there. I ended up with 3 layers done this way on the 2 sides and top. Another view showing a staple added just for safe measure. Getting this rigid along the top of the jamb was the tougher part of the job. I could not do the initial 'vertical' piece, but I ended up getting 3 layers across the inside top. The 4' strip was able to extend past the two ends of the jamb, were I was able to fold it down along the side and staple into place. No pics of this fun aspect ... the joys of playing with fiberglass. Side note ... the KNAUF rigid fiberglass is 1000 times easier to work with! After 2 showers, I'm still feeling this yellow glass :roll: OK ... with a fiberglass backing in place, I then pushed backer rod into the exposed section of the 'split'. I need to decide what type of finish to do for the door and jamb. The wood is really nice, and I would like to bring out the grain. Not sure if any coloring would be good ... but anyway, the carpenter suggested lining the split edge with painters blue tape prior to caulking the split. I'm considering a dark caulk for that ?!? I also got in some stud blocking. Particularly on the hinge side of the door, I added 4 blocks at the top, bottom and straddling the middle hinge. Just seem the right thing to do. Some of the blocks were short pieces. Couldn't really get a nail in there, so I had to resort to the Liquid nail for the middle blocks [man is that some strong glue] :shock: Today continued with more caulking, adding blocks to the outer wall, insulation for the inside wall, and cutting drywall for the 1st layer in this door area. Pix to follow ... Hope I'm doing this right ! Thank-you :)

It all looks pretty good from here :)

Hi xSpace .... always ... Thanks for checking my efforts here ! :cop: :D Continuing around the door, I got the insulation in place. On the outer wall, added some blocking, caulking ... After backer rod & caulking all the seams ... add the 1st layer of 5/8" drywall. Following the, now, regular procedure I backer roded the perimeter gaps of the floor and walls, caulked, and hit the seams with mud. Next up [hopefully today] ... get the 2nd layer of drywall WITH GreenGlue installed. :)

berry berry nice! it will be interesting once you get the seals up to see how much sound is getting blocked

Lookin' good! The only thing I'd point out is leaving a gap at the bottom of the gypsum @ the floor... caulk and backer rod at that point also helps with decoupling that gypsum from the floor. (e.g reducing flanking) (You might actually have enough of a gap and are already using backer rod/caulk @ the floor... but using a much smaller backer rod than I did.)

gullfo wrote:

berry berry nice! it will be interesting once you get the seals up to see how much sound is getting blocked

Hi Glenn ! Thank-you very much. Before I get the stops & seals in I was gonna wait until the interior of the room gets the drywall mudding ... and maybe painting. The thinking is to stay with the 'maple' wood for the door stops ... and even for the 1x that seal/ cover the drywall/ jamb seam. Glenn, I must say, the more I studied the modified 'Super Door' design that you provided, the more sense it made, with ALL indications that this IMPROVES upon Rods' design. The dual walls are COMPLETELY separated. ALSO ... that was a HUGE call on going with Maple for the jambs. The price was reasonable ... but the quality and strength of this wood is really beautiful. My carpenter was very please to see this choice. The solid birch door is also quite nice too. We have some NICE grain pattern. Definitely NOT going to paint the door nor jamb ... it was suggested maybe a shellac, with some type of grain highlighter added to it. I'd like it to look like furniture :) MadMax ... hey, as always, thanks for checking on me! I enjoy hearing from ya :) Yes ... the perimeter spacing off the floor/ ceiling/ and the adjacent walls do have backer rod and caulking on BOTH layers. As you know, Glenn was very specific about this technique, and I tried to implement this throughout the build. Although I have/had a collection of backer rod ... my preference has been to try to stay with the 3/8" variety ... but I confess ... a piece or two of 1/2" was needed in spots. It's amazing just how difficult real material can be in 3 dimensional space :shock: Today we had an opportunity for a short build session, which thankfully my brother was able to help install the 2nd drywall/ GreenGlue layer ... much easier with two people! While waiting for him to arrive, I went ahead and installed a few 'sway' braces around the door hinge and closer side. Here's one of the pix I was completely sure if they were really needed ... but then, I've not dealt with a door of this girth :? I remember the conversation I had with the designer from PAC International [geesh ... I can't remember his name, nor the company ... it's been THAT long ago]. But he detailed a recommended placement. So along with the wall sway braces that went in before, I added 2 on the hinge side, and 1 on the closer side. Maybe it's overkill, but I had the pieces, and while the wall was opened I figured I didn't want to regret NOT putting them in. Hard to tell from my lousy photos. Interior 2nd layer drywall ... loading up the pieces with GG ! With the drywall install, I went into sealing prep mode ... backer rod ... between the floor and wall, wall/ceiling, and between wall and jamb. Side note ... even though we had to hold for the door before completing the drywall, when this time came, we STILL maintained the 'interlocking drywall' concept throughout. Before caulking, I wanted to protect the maple jamb, so I first covered it with blue painters tape. Finally ... and again with the lousy pixs ... we have an interior room with 2 layers sealed. When everything is dry, I'll need to recheck all this ... but happy to report that this final layer is flush to the jamb as diagrammed. The door molding will sit snuggly across the wall and jamb :yahoo: If all is good ... and passes YOUR inspection ... my hope is to get the 'mudders' in for the first round. I know you must have given these instructions a hundred times of more ... but for those of us dazed & confused from smelling caulk fumes :shot: I'm having drywallers do this, and more than likely, they'll go with what they would do for any regular room ... and THAT's where I need to have your guidance again. Here's what I thinking .... for the 2 corner kickouts in my room, I was hoping to have a rounded corner look. It was mentioned they could use a plastic 'bullnose' corner. Is this good ??? Mud & taping. What is the preferred application. Walls to ceiling connection, Wall-wall, Floor to wall ... wall coming to jamb ?!?!? Plus all the seams on the walls & ceiling. What gets taped? NOT ??? Anything special about the mud ?? The corners ... do they use 'beading'. Once again ... the 'student' humbly seeks guidance. Sincerely.

the bullnose is ok or just normal corner bead. tape and mud on the inner corners. i like to use water and a scrub brush to finish the spackle to get a nice smooth blended finish without a lot of dust.

Hi Glenn, Alright ! Thanks for the 'less dust' tip :) Ahhh ... always more questions. Since the floor to wall 'topic' came up :wink: I know wonder ... how would you want the 'mudding' to be done at the floor to wall area ? From what I recall ... mud up to the caulk ... then, maybe, recaulk that bottom seal. Flooring ... I leaning heavy toward the fiberfloor [ArmStrong - 'Cushionstep'] ... Also considering some type of shoe molding. But I understand that you want this 'suspended' slightly above the floor & then caulked at the very bottom. Just to be sure I'm understanding right & getting the proper materials. Big Thanks!!!!

I prefer a sponge (2" X 6") to smooth the mud, if dust is an issue.

xSpace wrote:

I prefer a sponge (2" X 6") to smooth the mud, if dust is an issue.

I did buy one of those sponges. Dust is definitely an issue. I do blame an incident of shopvac-ing up a work site for my brother with lots of drywall dust to a case of pneumonia. That was NOT fun. I will insist that the drywaller try to minimize the dust. We are looking at Thur or Fri for them to come in, but I still need to know about the floor to wall issue. How should I direct them on this ??? Big Thanks again! :)

Not certain what the question is directly, but you want to elevate the sheetrock so that it is not sitting directly onto the flooring. Then caulk, or if the gap is big enough, backer-rod of the appropriate size for the void and caulk.

If I understand you correctly, the drywall guys can ignore the floor. You only wanna cover that wall::floor corner with something decorative, like a base molding, over a final layer of unpainted acoustic caulk. I covered every bit of my gypsum with another coupla' layers of material, so I really can't advise you about attaching the base mold any other way than to glue it and tack it in place. But just paint as close as you dare to the floor, leaving caulking for last. Then caulk that joint, and put the base mold over it. done. HTH Max p.s. It's nice to do it right the first time, ain't it?? (Re working stuff just kills ya') keep after it, lookin' good!

"If I understand you correctly, the drywall guys can ignore the floor. You only wanna cover that wall::floor corner with something decorative, like a base molding, over a final layer of unpainted acoustic caulk." What is this saying Max? Drywall guys do not do trim...

Sorry for the confusion :oops: Here's my question :?: When they mud the walls ... the point of question is where the wall and floor meet.? Right now, BOTH layers of drywall are +1/4" gapped off the floor. In the gap is backer rod and then caulking. When they 'mud' ... are they to cover my floor/wall gap with mud [on top of the caulking]? or are they to mud UP TO the caulking? In otherwords ... STOP at the caulk where the floor and walls are? I'm not sure what I just wrote makes any sense :shot: , but as MadMax points out ... its' more fun to do it right the first time. 8) For now ... the shoe molding idea is just that ... so I leave that for the moment. I just want to be clear that we get the mudding correct. Thanks!!

Everybody makes more since now that I actually read that someone was thinking of mudding the floor/wall area of sheetrock :) To answer that question, no sir, not in a hundred years has this ever been part of the finish aspect of mudding. The backer rod and caulk are all that is required.

so all that spackle i got on my floor was for nought? :twisted: :cen:

ok ... forget mud on the floor ... I'm sure there will be plenty when they hit the ceiling :horse: My question is MUCH more stupid than that :roll: :lol: At the BASE of the wall ... do we leave the caulking EXPOSED, or do we mud over it :?: Thanks.

RJHollins wrote:

ok ... forget mud on the floor ... I'm sure there will be plenty when they hit the ceiling :horse: My question is MUCH more stupid than that :roll: :lol: At the BASE of the wall ... do we leave the caulking EXPOSED, or do we mud over it :?: Thanks.

Lets get it perfectly beaten to death... :D DO NOT APPLY MUD OVER THE CAULK! LEAVE THE CAULK EXPOSED!

:oops: Ya know ... if my only OTHER brain cell hadn't been fried from two all-niters this week ... :| ... and maybe listening to Tull's, 'Thick As A Brick' re-master, may also have been a factor :shock: But ... I knew that was the answer .... really I did. :oops: The confusion, on my part, had to do with taping & mud in the inner corners AND where the ceiling & walls meet. At EACH of those locations I have gaps that are caulk sealed. As Glenn has instructed, we are to tape and mud those areas. And I'll have them leave the wall base caulking exposed. It kinda makes sense [I guess] ... but honestly, I'm trying to learn and understand all this. And as you pointed out ... get it right the first time !!! :) Once again ... HUGE thanks for your guidance, experience .... and PATIENCE !!! :wink: Thanks Max! :)

As a matter of reference, for anyone that comes behind me on this, the only layer that gets tape and mud will be the FINAL layer of sheathing. AND, this is a matter of preference. It is not something that someone says "do this and get that" it is simply to what you are willing to except. Max recommended earlier a thin trim (now that I know what we are all talking about:)) in the corner. and this could be a wall/wall or wall/ceiling corner that you have installed acoustic caulk in...and then attache the trim to one or the other of the hard boundaries to minimize the vibration from one panel to the other. There is no hard and fast rule that says you HAVE to use mud and tape on the final layer, that is just a quick read thru.

hehehehe... brother, I know what yer' goin' through... and then some. Lemme remind you of one thing... YOU'RE the one who lost your mind and went into this spiral of insanity... no one else pal!! You did this to yourself!! <snork> :yahoo: I pulled many of those lil' 4 day runs that'll make your "worry button", worry whether you really have a body or a brain... but obviously neither. Hang in there, you'll make it. In about 12 more weeks you'll find out whether it's all been worth it or not... maybe a tad longer... Doors are more of a beast than you can imagine. They're still gonna leak. It's whether you can get away with the louder volume not bleeding, or creating feedback when you open a door to the control room. I can assure you, feedback in a recording session is not only unacceptable, it's dangerous. (Someone can get their eye dotted) So watch your control room volume until you understand the isolation your doors are giving you. I've been amazed at how much gain you can run on many instruments you want to record at room volume. It's a wonderful sound, but brother, you better be quick on the mute or dim when someone opens that tracking room door, because they are potentially blocking a LOT of energy. Prolly take a coupla' sessions to figure out your maximum gains, but it's not quite rocket surgery...

Hey Guys! Thanks for the post ... which AFTER reading ... maybe I'm only HALF crazy the other 80% is nuts :shock: :lol: I usually just refer to it as my 'passion'. :mrgreen: As for the crazy/nuts part ... its' mostly when I'm not able to comprehend something :| To the serious points that xSpace has mentioned ... and in light of pouring through many of the threads here, along with Rods' book ... I've concluded that the best options are the ones the you and Glenn [my main designer] have stated for my build. Most CERTAINLY, a very welcomed, heartfelt appreciation to those that have been down this road before [like MadMax], and have kindly relayed words of their experience, insights AND encouragement. Since I've NOT had the chance to screw-up a build like this before ... I don't want to begin with this one :lol: As MadMax stated ... once I get this room up and running [which to this point has been PURELY room ISOLATION construction. Without the treatment, its' more or less an acoustic chamber reverb.... my goal, within the strick limits of this rooms' dimension, is to see how good I can get it. This is my first laboratory to test this type of design. Combine that with a forum like this ... with knowledgeable people that try to teach me something. And There is NO doubt the passion the Mods have for all this. 'Its the little things that can bite you' ... trust me when I say that there are NOT to many people in my sphere that can intelligently discuss the 'flanking properties of drywall mud'. [I know ... I should get out more often ... ] Anyway ... it looks like Monday for mudders ... as most know, when you have a small project like my build, it's much harder to get a crew to come in on the gig. Well, give me extra time to ponder. ... AND we got a gig Sat nite :yahoo: [couple new SteelyDan tracks and a Little Feat cut] ... fun stuff :)

... and the 'education' continues ... also .... Progress report! So ... I'm about 40 years behind the times ... or so I'm told. Thusly explaining the confusion around the 'mudding' of da room. Ya see, the house I'm in has plaster walls. I know this from having to do a repair of a hallway due to a slight leak when the satellite TV service was install [got rid of that and moved to FIOS]. As I tend to stay far away when drywall mud & dust is going on ... I've been informed that they no longer mud the entire surface of the drywall :shock: They hit the seams, the corners, and the screws. Yours truly is asking about mud near the wall base and such .... and they don't even do it !!! :roll: So, my apologies for all my misunderstanding[s]. The 'progress' end of this ... have a real good 'mudder' working my room :yahoo: First day ... taped all the seams, and tightened up a few exposed screws, and hit a few spots with mud. Said, let it dry ... see me next day ... ok. Oh yeah ... told me my attempt at mudding .... maybe a C- ... maybe ... also, don't bother doing it on the outer wall ... he'll take care of it. :wink: Mentioned that running seams from floor to ceiling should be avoided ... no biggie, just he has to do additional feathering to smooth it. Today he came in and shaved the two kick-out corners ... which I got in there and re-caulked it before he glued the bullnose corners on. I must say, I thought the bullnose looked SO WIDE that I was trying to find a different style. But AFTER he 'snugged' them into place ... the edges are just what I hoped ... nicely rounded 8) . Then he went in and layered about a 2' stripe of mud over the previously taped areas. I'll see where we are at then, but he said that he needs a total of 4 sessions for the room. Session 3 is tomorrow ... Surprisingly, the areas he's done has brighten up the room. I'm keeping this in mind for the painting. For the paint 'primer', it was mentioned to look at a produce called 'Killz' [i think thats what he called it]. It's a mildew resist primer ... they can even tint it. So, the moment we get the go on mud dried and ready, the painters are set to spray :mrgreen: For a 'final' color ... I'm really thinking a staying with a very light [even plain white] flat, or maybe eggshell finish. By the time ALL the possible acoustic treatment go in, I'm NOT sure how much of the walls & ceilings will be visible ... and I need to keep lighting in mind [heat]. Anyway ... getting some pics together ... should get them up in the next day or so. OH ... had a problem with the DONATE button ... new browser here, maybe something on my side ... will try again. Big THANKS! :D