UAN - new Control Room build

most times - i would use only a HD door closer to close it and keep it closed, and a key/turn latch so you can lock the door inside by turning a know and a key outside so you can lock the room. if no locks are needed, then a simple turning latch could be used so simply turning the handle unlatches it. a lever is better than a knob. having the latch mechanism shouldn't be an issue since your seals are all on the outside or under the door and the "holes" are minimal and covered and you can seal those up. unless something is wrong, the keyhole should not be a major contributor to isolation loss...

Hi Glenn, Thanks for calming the concerns on the door latch. I must apologize ... I look at things, now, in a much more hyper-sensitive view in my lofty goal to build to the 'standards' that you've outlined. Nothing wrong with that, EXCEPT its' difficult to assess until AFTER the fact. It is so welcomed to hear from experienced voices ! This morning I went to the 'Mill' to view the CAD drawing for the door & frame. Everything looked good ! :) We made a change to use solid maple for the 'split' jamb. I went ahead and added a door latch hole to be cut in. From looking at various door knobs, I saw several designs that provided a significant 'covering' of the knob hole. Again, this was not in the preliminary thoughts ... but after discussion, the concern that one of the children could wander into the room, unattended, was a flag. I'm glad to learn that we can maintain functionality AND safety 8) During all this, another dozen or so things need attention ... one I've been thinking about is the mounting of the acoustic panels on the wall. I'll need to deal with the ceiling hang later. I have an idea that I'm getting ready to test ... if there are no casualties ...... I'll post pictures :shock: Big Thanks!

Progress update ... wow ... let me say, I hadn't expected the difficulty in finding hardware for the CR door :shock: I've been to many local stores, and about the internet . Many of the limited choices I had were items that are discontinued :| Adding to that ... I was not impressed with the quality [or lack thereof] of the residential door handles ... forget style. They just seemed so 'cheap' ... but NOT in price. Talking with the Mill, I had to go the commercial route ... even there, the local suppliers had really narrowed down their choice and inventories. Fortunately TODAY, I found a commercial door building company, and using brother contractor pull, they offered to help. Again, mention building a Control Room, and the guy helping me shared HIS adventures in trying to build a listening room @ home. So, out of the norm [i think], they really tried to help. Although the hardware turned out different in what I was initially looking for ... this is what I went with .... search exhaustion HAD set in :roll: The door handle is now a long vertical type 'tube' like you might see on a theater door. Surprisingly, this thing must weight 40 lbs !!! -- they didn't have a smaller, lighter one. I also went with a pressure, roller latching mechanism. This piece can be fully adjusted to set the strength of 'grip' ... they use these on some hospital doors. Threshold ... changed this up ... he had a automatic bottom door seal [Full Mortise], and fully adjustable [and replaceable]. He guaranteed that it will seal the bottom directly to the floor [even with the slight slope]. This also means that the entrance is unimpeded [nothing to trip over]. For safety, I also added a keyed dead bolt. All this was hand delivered to my door guy. He seemed pleased, and foresaw no immediate issues. :yahoo: I think the door hardware guys really took pity on the musician ... especially the price for these high quality of these components. They're on the invite list for the grand listening party! :wink: Anyway ... if I drank .... I would :shot: I have no pics of the latest purchase ... will post when I got something. Looking forward to my gig tomorrow nite ... then rest up for the next challenge of this build. :D

it's never too late to take up drinking :roll:

gullfo wrote:

it's never too late to take up drinking :roll:

Not only is it never too late... but it seems to end up being a proper habit to consume a bit of adult beverage to ease the pain and suffering that wallets endure!

I can appreciate your wanting unimpeded doorways, but two things come to mind... The hinge side is not going to be much of an issue, but the latch side is not going to be all that rigid, and may well shift. The use of a threshold does stabilize the bottom of the door. Granted, it probably will not shift that much, but it will shift as the seasons do.... even if you used a metal jamb. The largest sound leak you will have will indeed be the single point of contact of your guillotine sweep. The use of an adjustable threshold and guillotine, gives you a double seal, especially when used with a "D" seal attached to the underside of the door itself... where the "D" seal rests upon the adjustable threshold. Sorry to hear you got kinda' hosed on the handles. I used 16" ADA/bathroom grab bars for my doors. I think I paid something like $18/each. The use of the hospital grade latches and door closers is something I didn't want to deal with. Granted you can adjust them and get compliant, but often, that means that your fire marshal and inspectors have to inspect them annually, as opposed to every two years for fire extinguishers. Having worked in the medical field for quite a few years, those latch and closer settings need pretty routine maintenance - according to the hospital maintenance engineers I know. They also complained about having to replace those latches every year or so... granted, those were often high traffic entrances, but there were also doors that had infrequent use. This could have been because they used cheaply made stuff, but after all the horror stories... I said; "NO WAY!" I'm not grumblin' or chastising you by any means... just passing on what I know... and what I didn't want to have to deal with... and taking into account that mine is a commercial rated building.

Hello GANG, Was hoping to report major progress on the build ... but ... so far STILL waiting on the door and jamb :roll: In the meantime, been trying to address other things that I need to do. Chunky Corner traps: OK ... I've been scanning the forum, looking for ideas on putting these in place. I have the 2" rigid fiberglass [Knauf] that I plan to cut into 4 triangles/sheet, and place them stacked floor to ceiling. Now here's the perplexing part :? After going through all the effort to maintain 'separation' between the drywall corners, filling 'those' 1/4" gaps with backer rod & caulk. When I try to come up with a design for a frame to COVER the corners, I have yet to figure a way to NOT flank between the adjacent walls :shock: I was thinking of using some type of angle bracket that I could mount to the wall, that would have a 45 degree 'face', and using [maybe] nylon bolts, could wing-nut the frame to the corner bracket. Now ... am I trying to carry this too far ... or is there a simple design that someone has that meets the intended design criteria ? Insights most welcomed ! Thanks :wink:

the frame will likely only be secured by a few screws to the walls so don't worry too much there - it's mainly to keep your insulation stack from tipping and holding the cloth/plastic.

I took 2x4's, ripped them down the middle (at a 45' angle), and put them up vertically on either side of the trap. After stuffing the corners with 703, I stretched the fabric across the front, and used no cross pieces at the top or bottom. The only thing that tied the two walls together were fabric.

french cleat...no screws...no glue, a french cleat is how I have hung mine.

ok ... I did some searching on 'french cleats', as I was not familiar with them. Always nice to learn about something new :) This has got me rethinking my hanging of acoustic absorber panels [and the covering of the superchunks]. I've been testing an idea to hang the wall absorbers [2'x4'x4"]. I would like to mount them 4" off the wall surface as recommended. Basically I'm testing 3 4" bolts [2 at the top, one at the bottom middle]. these are locked to the frame with 2 nuts & washer. Using 2 screw-type eye-bolts, I have an S-clip attached to a chain [40 lb rating], and on the wall hanging from a single wall clip [like they use in closet]. Anyway ... its just a test ... and it ain't pretty ... but seems to be working. I still looking for the 'bestest' way :wink: so ... with that ... I'm also looking at the ceiling clouds with couple of ideas I want to test. For the corner chunk covers ... for some reason [probably because I saw this in the original design that Glenn did for me] ... are the thin wood slats that Glenn did on the corner cover. I am not sure [until testing] but I kinda would like to implement that idea ... cause it looks good !!! :shock: Of course, this is 'treatment' area ... but I'd like to have a frame design ready to handle this [if needed].

you can use the French cleats with stand-offs to get your absorbers hung. for clouds - eye hooks with chain covered with a rubber tube works and can be adjusted to get angles etc.

ok ... apologies for bouncing around with different aspects of this project, please bear with me :wink: Looking at another idea for the corner traps. Basically trying to accomplish several things. 1. Something that I can build 2. To insure that the 2" thick triangles [4 per 2'x4' sheet] are held in place AND at the same time ... 3. Give me a way to mount the fabric covered frame [and possible wooden 'diffuser's'] onto. Simply ... using 2"x2" screwed into the wall, with a 45 degree cut, placed at top, bottom and middle. On the 'ends', I picked up some 'Industrial Strength' VELCRO ... whereby I can stick the frame onto the wall. If 'that' failed, I could add a small block of wood, secure a bolt in it, and with a hole drilled into the cover frame, secure it with wing-nuts. here's a pic I know that this raises potential flanking issues ... so I wanted to show this first. It would be nice to be able to have move-ability of these corner pieces in case of repair, or color change ... or soffit idea develops down the road. hmm ... is it also recommended to have 'some' space off the floor ? that is, keeping this rigid insulation 'suspended' ? better for trapping ??? better for air circulation [prevent moisture [humidity] ??? i don't know ... just wondering. More importantly ... what's this idea look like ... how would I improve on it ?? Thanks!! oh ... Mill called .... they might have my door ready mid next week :horse:

the triangles work to support the stack so it doesn't get too packed. another option is insulation hooks on the wall and using pink insulation batts vertically, then a 4" thick face of rigid insulation (vertical also) then the method Max described using 2 vertical strips for the cloth - then use a string top and bottom to support the edges there - without significant coupling. -- or -- just go with your plan as you have it drawn. the coupling across the walls shouldn't represent a material defect in your space...

gullfo wrote:

the triangles work to support the stack so it doesn't get too packed. another option is insulation hooks on the wall and using pink insulation batts vertically, then a 4" thick face of rigid insulation (vertical also) then the method Max described using 2 vertical strips for the cloth - then use a string top and bottom to support the edges there - without significant coupling. -- or -- just go with your plan as you have it drawn. the coupling across the walls shouldn't represent a material defect in your space...

Hi Glenn, Man ... I so much appreciate your patience & knowledge on ALL of this. Your guidance is always teaching me. I DO know that I can over think on things :? I'm reminded of the words of wisdom from either You or Andre, referring to, something like, 'what makes common sense does NOT always apply to acoustics/ isolation'. [well .... it was something like that] :? Everyday I try to go through the forum, here, reading what everyone else has going on with their unique build. That is the LEAST I can do in my quest to learn & get a better understanding. I confess ... it DOES get overwhelming ... then all the questions that come to mind. None the least of which .... trying to organize a design [that may or not be influenced] by available materials and/or operator SKILL levels to actually implement :shock: I mean ... its fun ... [sorta] :| of course, I'd rather be working on some mastering project for sure ... but I also don't want to screw up this build ... this is a big problem facing the 'grasshopper'. Years of 'experience' can also lead to Wisdom [which usually entails much exposure to trial & error & study and redesign]. Ahhh ... all I'm trying to say is, thank-you for helping me avoid so many pitfalls & disasters. This goes out to several very special people here [u know who u B] :wink: thanks. Sincerely

(Blush) thanks! Just trying to do my part to populate the world with art!

well ... as unbelievable as it may seem ........ I'm STILL waiting for my door. :shock: :? :roll: :evil: :horse: :cen: Did I leave anything comment out. I'm being told this Friday. we shall hopefully see. In da meantime ... Fighting off the door depression blues ... I've been out shopping for other vital stuff. I am officially ready to take up serious drinking :shot: Thought I'd go for something easy, like the laminate flooring. Oh, I saw all kinds of wonderful styles and colors. This is the type of flooring that basically comes in 6" x 36" sheets [about 1/4" thick]. They are assembled together via sticky 'tape' edges. I happened into a carpet store that also had the laminates, and SURPRISINGLY they actually had a section with the material laid out on top of a concrete floor. HEY, I get my first chance to actually walk on it. Coming off of the, expected, dense sound of the concrete I proceeded onto the small section of laminate. To my dismay ... WHAT a difference in sound. Footsteps were significantly LOUDER on this laminate covering :shock: I'm like clickin' and clackin' as I walk with SNEAKERS on :| All I can say is that I'm GLAD I happened in to actually test this. Definitely have to re-evaluate the flooring. Next I figure ... I'm gonna want a new desk in this room. Something straight forward & simple in design ... and as OPEN as I can find. My thinking was to minimize putting a 'wall' at the front near the monitors. Yeah, it be nice to have a center drawer too. After hitting the OfficeMAX, Office Depot, various furniture stores & even some of the unfinished shops ............. nothing :shock: Unless, of course, the idea of a glass top desk would be so nice to maintain. Online I found something close to what I'd like ... by some 'Herman' guy/designer ... and he wants $1300 for 'his' simple, utilitarian desk. [man .... this is suckin'] ... I may have to build the desk myself ... not sure I'd know how to do the drawer ... but geesh .... I'm trying to maintain what little sense of humor I might've had ... so I won't even go into the HVAC joys ......... but that too has got ta happen. That's all the news that fit to print ... :blah:

Welcome to the team sport of MANY studio builders! (Drinking can be a fun hobby... when performed in moderation.) I went with stained and sealed concrete floors... and I'm not looking back with ANY regrets! (Other than by using a water based stain and sealer, they do require some sealer maintenance.) It's SO nice not to have to worry about spills, scratches, potential re-sanding/sealing, etc... If someone spills something, I just get a broom or a mop and it's taken care of. But I would recommend staining with the commercial products that are NOT water based. There used to be a product called Steelcrete that I used in a bowling alley I worked at in my 20's. Now, some 30 plus years later, it has relatively the same finish as it did the day we put it down. I was amazed when I was back home last year and stopped to see a buddy who still works there. I asked if he had touched it up or recoated... nope.

Hi MadMax ! My current floor is concrete ... BUT ... there are several layers of paint on it :| How bad the mess would be to try and remove the paint ... I could only imagine. :roll: If I'm unable to find a type of floor covering [now looking at some of this fiber flooring from Anderson, or Tarken (?) ], then my reasonable option might have to be re-painting the floor. Definitely NOT the look I was going for ... If paint ... I may need to consult with a pro painter that has a bit of artist to his work. I don't know .... :? Did a 'way to early morning' rehearsal today & tomorrow for 2 important gigs this weekend. Were adding another SteelyDan track, and other tunes, to the setlist ... I like 8) Maybe my door tomorrow afternoon ... Are there auditions and/or testing for a 'Team' position ... :mrgreen: just checking.

Epoxy paint, but you will have to strip the existing paint which isn't that big a deal...but if you strip it...why not stain it assuming you grind the concrete down to remove the veins of paint that may still exist?

xSpace wrote:

Epoxy paint, but you will have to strip the existing paint which isn't that big a deal...but if you strip it...why not stain it assuming you grind the concrete down to remove the veins of paint that may still exist?

Having to consider ALL options ... Please, let me ask regarding 'strip existing paint' ... are we talking a 'chemical' assault, or are we basically looking at a some type of 'sander/ grinder' ??? The paint that is already on the floor consist of many layers. Not sure about the 1st layer, as that may well be a battleship grey concrete paint. What I do know is there are several coats of 'drylock' paint on top. Other than in a few sections ... most of this paint had EVERY intention of staying :? Sure be interested in hearing about a good way to strip this down to the bear concrete. I DO understand the suggestions that a concrete floor is a good surface to have ... but I would liked to have had a thin cover. Is there ANYTHING out there ... or am I just asking for issues/ problems that negate the sole purpose of this build ... just to give a nice look and NOT be walking directly on concrete :shock: The guidance and advice is always welcomed & appreciated. Thank-you.

I am intending to put Novilon (a kind of linoleum) on my concrete floor. It looks exactly like wood parquet flooring. We had our hallway in our old apartment done in this and people were hardpressed to tell it was real parquet - they had to get down and touch it. It's inherently footstep quiet, warm looking, and very easy to install, plus it's cheaper than parquet or laminate. Being a new construction, I was told not to use any sealing type of product on the floor for at least a year - I don't want to wait that long.

I was just at a flooring store, and I think I saw the same type of product. They called it something like 'FiberFloor'. The one from Armstrong is called 'Cushionstep'. The other is called 'Wonderwood' by Flexitec. Brought a few samples home. You are right about the look. I tested walking on a sample, and it is MUCH quieter than the laminate flooring ... and it comes in so many different styles that look real good. Several options on installation. Can be glued ... or NOT. They cautioned about having a chair with rollers ... might have to glue in 'that' area. Anyway ... just looking for good options ... but at this moment, if there are NO acoustical issues, then this may be the way I go. I would be nice to have something that takes the edge off of walking directly on concrete.

bamboo can also be a nice finish. if you're looking to remove the paint - either chemical/cooking oil and scrape and power wash. or grinding - http://www.concretenetwork.com/sawtec/c ... basics.htm

Can it really be true ..... :wink: Quite the day, today ... First had to hit the optometrist to figure out what happened to my eyeglass lenses. 2 circular, cloudy rings have been developing right in the center of both lenses. What I found out ... first ... 4 year old lens are ... old :shock: Apparently this hi-tech lenses, being incredibly thin [for my script], have a shorter lifespan than I would have expected. It appears that the 'special' materials used in these lenses can start to break down. Air borne chemicals 'may' be a factor. Well, for whatever reason, I had no choice but to get a replacement ... this involved a complete eye exam :shock: We're talkin' the full 'Monte' ... bright lights, the punch of air in each eye ... then the eye drops. Within 15 min I couldn't see anything but a bright,cloudy film ... and yes, they had me picking out new frames for a second pair of 'computer' glasses. Yes, these will be of the bi-focal pursausion... my first venture into this visual adventure. :cen: OK ... the better news ....... wait for it .... Having been delayed since, before Easter, We got the call that the 'Door' has been created. I know ... I was shocked too. So I went to the Mill to have a pre-deliver look ... and of course pay the balance. For the most part ... it fairly close to the instructions and design that I brought them ... but NOT completely. AND, for reasons NOBODY knows ... the deadbolt tumbler and key was nowhere to be found :roll: They also decided to mount the pressure roller latch at the TOP of the door ... why, I haven't a clue :| Given that ... they DID provide the SPLIT-Jamb, and DID include temporary supports to hold both frames together that will be removed. My choice of asking for any corrections or take the door that Carol Merrel was standing in front of, was quickly reminded of the possibility of actually getting this door in this lifetime. So ... took it as is. Got some pics as it now sits in the garage ... The actual wood looks much nicer in person than the lighting in the garage allows. In the last pix, you can clearly see the 1/4" spacing that will be used when mounted. Tomorrow I should know what the install schedule will be. All I can say is that I look forward to getting out of the 'funk' I've been in about getting this door on site. There is so much more issue to solve ... and it can get overwhelming mentally ... I try not to think TOO far out, while at the same time TRY to plan ahead ... its' a vicious cycle :twisted: Other matters of attention. Having read some of the paint removing procedures, it looks like the corporate decision will be to go in this direction. Here is a really horrible pic ... in ALL its' florescent light glory. These are just two samples of the material. Yes, they are NOT wood ... but a type of fiber flooring, with a slight cushion-y feel. MOST important ... it DOESN'T sound like I'm walking/ playing a floor marimba. :shot: 2nd benefit ... it can more easily be removed and or replaced, and the price is quite reasonable. The difficult part is trying to find a COLOR and pattern that WON'T make the room look too DARK. From what I've read, the LED lighting is NOT winning the hearts & eyes, so I'm planning on a different science that will probably involve a variac transformer for dimming purposes. Anyway ... speaking of eyes ... mine are shot ... so I bide all a good nite and good builds :) That concludes tonites ramblings .... for now. Thanks!