Ok I will try. I need to learn the program better because right now I'm trying to reconcile you telling me to leave "components" out of it up above, and now to include everything. I'll work on it. Thank you.
What André means is that there is a "bug/feature" in the SketchUp program. If you create any "components" (a component is basically a group of surfaces/lines/objects/other components/whatever) then it is stuck inside your SketchUp file forever, even if you then delete that component. So, if you create a 2x4 as a component, then you immediately delete it, it isn't really gone. It is still part of your file. Even though you deleted it, it is still there. So over time, your file just grows and grows, as it accumulates dead components.
The trouble is, that you absolutely do need to make components in SketchUp! Things need to be components to be useful. You do need to make your SketchUp model as accurate as possible, including everything, all components. But just be aware that the "bug/feature" will make your file huge eventually.
So you are stuck with a growing file. What Andre was telling you was to not make anything that you don't need.
There are ways around that: You can copy all of the actual real "good" components to a brand new clean file every now and then, but it's a pain! There is also a tool that is supposed to purge those "unused" components, but it doesn't seem to work too well.
Well, we may have a major issue here. I only have help right now, and I need the new tracking space for a band coming in Feb 1.
Frankly, even if you had a rock-solid perfect plan in place as of right now, and a professional studio construction team waiting at your frint door with a truck load of matirials, I'm skeptical that you could be finished inside of five weeks!
Especially if you aim to do it right. Not unless your savvy group has an awful lot of members who are absolute experts in several fields that you have not even considered yet. You have not mentioned anything about your electrical or HVAC systems, for example. A split system aircon will cool your air, but how are you going to silence that? You can kid yourself that you'll just turn it off while you are tracking, but the heat in that room is going to build up really fast with a bunch of musicians and equipment in there, all going full bore. You are going to build a really, really well insulated air-tight bubble, and then put hot people and hot equipment inside. Heat has no place to go. It stays inside, and builds up and up, unless you remove it. So the air conditioner will have to stay on, even if you are tracking in midwinter with six feet of snow outside the door. So the air conditioner has to be very quiet. Where are the plans for your silencers and ducts?
And even so, the air con won't give you fresh air, which you kind of do need if you plan on not passing out each time you work in the studio. You are going to build an airtight room. It has to be airtight, in order to achieve isolation. Putting live creatures (such as people, for example) in an airtight box for lengthy periods of time is not know for promoting good health or long life! You need to design your ventilation system, as well as your cooling. You have to get fresh air in, and stale air out. It's a complex system, as it has to have silencers of some sort. And it has to be planned carefully to move enough air to keep you all alive and comfortable: You cannot just guess at how big the ducts need to be, what size fan to use, or how fast the air must move. I just don't see where you have planned that, or even allowed space for it. I'm rather well aware of this, as I'm at that exact point in my design: trying to figure out where to run my ducts, where I can find space for my silencers, etc. It ain't easy!
:)
So it really only leaves me with the option of 'consult as i go.' if this is unacceptable, i totally understand. i also don't expect anyone to answer right away. it's nice when it happens.
Well, I'm thinking that you probably will not like the answers too much, even if they do come right away! Many of the posts I see on this forum are along the lines of "Why did you just build it that way?" followed by a "Damn! So what do I do now to fix my goof?". And those are threads from people who actually have taken the time to plan carefully. So my guess is you are going to see a lot of answers that you don't like.
I'm not trying to discourage you! You have to work with what you have, for sure, but the kind of situation you are putting yourself into does not bode well for seeing a lot of "Nice job, Matt! That's a great idea to build it in that new and totally untested way!" type of posts.
bummer. i figured when andre said "The garage door itself is too thin to be of any value in isolation." that meant i could put up a MAM double wall next to it. what is recommended?
You could do that, yes. If you do it right, and are aware of the limitations regarding low frequency noise, such as comes from trucks, for example.
Search the forum. Several people have the exact same issue as you do with garage doors like yours. They have asked the exact same question. I'm one of them, but I have not yet gotten to that place in my design, so I have not researched that yet, and therefore I'm not the one to answer.
in any case, as mentioned above, i have no concern about how loud my music is to neighbors. we could play out on the front lawn at midnight and not bother anyone. my only concern is trucks going by getting on the mics
Sound goes both ways. If drum sound leaks out, then truck sound will leak in. You can't stop it just going in one direction.
How loud are the trucks? You need to get out your sound level meter and actually measure the sound level, right there at your garage door, both outside and inside, as trucks go past. If you have an RTA or a spectrum analyzer, or if one of your sound-savvy friends can get one for you, that would be excellent as you would be able to see exactly what "truck" frequencies are giving you a problem. But even a set of simple readings from any old half-decent SPL meter will give a rough idea of what you are dealing with.
But you DO need real numbers. Nobody can tell you how to build your walls/celing/doors/window without knowing how much of a problem you have.
Does the ground shake/vibrate when the trucks go past?
Yep. unfortunately, i don't have that luxury. i basically have to begin now. i realize that may end my welcome here (if i ever was).
I hope we haven't come across as not welcoming you here! Its not that at all! You are actually VERY welcome here!
Like I tried to explain in some of my other posts, you have to get used to this place. People often make very terse, biting comments that hit you between the eyes, but they ONLY do that
because they are trying to HELP you. If they didn't want you here, or were not interested in your project, they just would not comment at all! You'd have a silent thread. The fact that you have an active, lively thread going here, with many searing comments, shows that many people ARE interested, and ARE trying to help! I only hope that I get this much activity on my thread when I start to build, and I pray that the comments are all along the lines of "That was dumb! You need to rip that out right now and do it the smart way!". If all I get are comments saying "Way to go!", then I'll be REALLY worried! In short, I WANT people to tell me what I'm doing wrong, not what I'm doing right! That's what you are seeing here: folks see great potential for your build, and they are all warning you that you are going about it the wrong way. They are doing that because they want to help you, not because they want to discourage you.
if not, it may be fun, and useful to others, to have a "comment as you go" type thread ... it sure would help me.
Like I said: I'm sure you'll get "comments as you go", but you might not like them very much! My guess is that you will see a lot of reference to other threads, where other builders had the same issue that you just ran into, and that you could have avoided if you would have searched the forum before you started. I think you might see a lot of "I told you so" comments, too.
I only have help right now, and I need the new tracking space for a band coming in Feb ... Yep. unfortunately, i don't have that luxury. i basically have to begin now.
I hear what you are saying, but it isn't making very much sense. You are basically saying that you want to go ahead with your build, spending all of the small amount of money that you do have, even though you know you cannot finish in time, and have no idea if will not turn out well?
In your shoes, I think what I'd do is stop and re-think the whole plan through, and then rent space elsewhere for the February session, or maybe just track as best I can in the empty shell, and live with multiple re-takes to deal with the truck noise issue.
If it were my seven grand, I would not want to waste it on a job that can't even be done properly in the meager time available, based on no real plan. I think I'd rather just go to Las Vegas and have fun blowing all that money on the slot machines, rather than blowing it on building a studio with no plan. At least in Vegas I'd stand an extremely remote chance of getting some of the money back!
Sorry for being sarcastic, but I think you have false expectations if you hope to build an entire studio properly, with no plan, in less than five weeks. If you do, you'd be the first to ever managed that, I think.
if this is unacceptable, i totally understand.
It's acceptable to me! After all, it's not my money!
:)
actually, there's a stucco wall on the actual outside of the house (western & eastern walls).
Right! I missed that. You had mentioned it before. That helps a bit, probably. How thick is the stucco, and how is it built? Is it just drywall with stucco on the outside?
sorry, i meant the studs are not aligned. wool will go in all the gaps.
OK, now I understand. I think. Or maybe not. Are you talking about a staggered stud wall, where you have a common top and bottom plate with two sets of studs, one for the inside leaf and one for the outside? Or are you just saying that you will have two separate frames but that you'll take care to make sure that the studs one the two frames do not line up with each other? Of it is the former, then you are not maximizing isolation. If it is the latter, then I don't see the point. It does not matter, as far as I can see, if your studs happen to line up or not, as long as the frames are totally decoupled.
Anyway, to summarize: five weeks is an unrealistic time frame to do what you are thinking you can do. Even five months would be pushing it. What will you do if you get to February, the musicians are knocking on your door, and your room is nowhere near ready? Or it actually is finished, but sounds like junk and is unusable? You have not even mentioned the acoustic treatment that you will need once the room is finished, in order to make it into a usable recording space. Isolation and treatment are two totally different, diametrically opposite, mutually exclusive issues.
Another thing you have not mentioned is permits and code: Do you have all your paperwork in order, and will your structure meet code and pass inspection? The saddest thing of all would be if you just happened to get lucky and build a usable studio, then have an inspector show up and tell you to tear it down again, as it is not legal...
Once again, if I were in your shoes, I think I'd take a deep breath, realize that February is totally unrealistic, and put the build on hold. Then I'd start looking for alternatives for that tracking session in February. Because there is no way I'd risk dumping seven grand down the drain just because I'm in a hurry to do something that I don't know very much about, while people who do know a bit about it are telling me not to do it!
But that's just me. After all, it's your seven grand, not mine!
- Stuart -