Lost Studios new construction build Portland Oregon

Alright been doing some research from the office on acoustical caulks Went to one of my suppliers and told him I needed an acoustical caulk He came up with a 30oz tube (what I call a quart tube) @$4.75 per tube which is equal to 3 normal size tubes. I have not searched much on the RSD forum for pricing but most small tubes looked like $8 per. Here is the spec sheet on the material http://pecora.com/downloads/specdata/PecoraAIS919.pdf And no, there is no testing data on their page that I can find After reading over the MSDS sheet it is confirmed green glue and AIS919 are both Acrylic Latex compositions. The actual balance of materials incorporated is different but not confirmed for the most part either way. But that is not uncommon for most patents. This is not saying Green glue is typical to all or most Acrylic latex caulks but tells me from a contractors view they are probably comparable. I install 5 different concrete hardners (in my day job) that all have different testing charts that say they are better than the other. They are all sodium silicate based but all say they can out perform the other. They all contradict one another. This is very common in the construction biz. I am not discounting Green glue by any means but would like to point out that they are probably the only ones that have done testing which is very expensive to do by a reputable testing firm and get documentation from them. The only comparison testing that green glue did, was with a sub floor adhesive or Normal adhesive. Not sure what they mean by normal. That is what I found on their page might have missed something There are many adhesives out there. Which are not Acrylic latex based. BY NO MEANS AM I AN EXPERT just an observation on what I know and what I read. Alright beat me up over this if you want :twisted: Tom

Tom,

Alright beat me up over this if you want

Maybe this topic deserves it's own thread. Could get interesting. I'm not going to throw any punches, I'm a guitar player and value my hands. I got a seat in the 1st row and waiting :twisted: Marc

I have gone through about six dozen 28 oz. tubes of acoustic sealant at just over $4 a pop and two dozen 29 oz. tubes of Green Glue on my project so far. I can tell you with absolute certainty that THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. The only characteristic they have in common are the gun I use in applying them. The main ingredient in my favorite orange soda is water, just like my floor cleaner... But I'm damn straight not gonna swap them. The floor would be awfully sticky and I'd be in the hospital. I wish Green Glue were cheaper too... But there really isn't anything else like it. Well, maybe there is -- QuietGlue is about 20% less... But QuietSolutions' specs on it aren't nearly as convincing. --Keith :mrgreen:.

The way I see it is that both Keith AND TomVan have made very good points... It MAY be very likely that Audio Alloy paid for their own testing... I'm a pharmacist, and I can tell you that a great deal of drug studies are paid for -- at least partially -- by the manufacturer(s) of the drug(s) that get tested. In professional peer-reviewed journals, the funding for the study HAS to be disclosed (actually, EVERYTHING about the way any study is written and submitted must follow specific guidelines before being accepted and published -- this is why MD's, PharmD's, PhD's, etc., only take seriously peer-reviewed journals). When I was interning and presenting new articles to healthcare professionals, not very many of them were ever impressed much with 'who funded the study'. Supposedly, the journal has researched whether any article had any 'improprieties' with the way it was funded (and remember, these are the 'peers', i.e., fellow medical/science professionals); if anything was found improper, the study would have been rejected for publishing (the study could then make changes and try to resubmit, subject to the same scrutiny again, and so on). SO, one big thing to look at with any study is WHERE it was published.... If it was in the NEJM (New England Journal of Medicine) or in the 'World News' tabloid makes a big difference; the NEJM won't accept a questionable study, whereas the World News could care less (or may actually WANT it to be sketchy). Here, a peer-reviewed engineering journal would be where to look for the most reputable info. A company that only publishes its own study (whether self-conducted, or through a third party) in its own advertising is NOT using a peer-reviewed process -- but that's still not to say that claims might not be totally legit. As far as what Green Glue actually is -- or has to be chemically -- is still up for debate as far as I feel. Clearly it has to have certain static physical properties, and fluid dynamic properties, but that likely leaves a whole world of chemical possibilities in order to achieve those properties... i.e., there's most probably no unique 'magic' set of chemicals that can accomplish the same thing... I've briefly thought of other materials that may substitute for GG... Dielectric (silicone) grease came to mind (this is NOT like the silicone caulkings, but rather remains a viscous liquid); alas, this stuff -- even in bulk -- seems to be more expensive than Green Glue... And even though it may have the functional physical properties of GG, it may or may not have some others that are required to have it be 'acceptable' to be put between sheetrock layers... tests would have to be done. But, in a sense, GG is a 'blind' item; it's almost impossible for anyone who is constructing a studio to 'test' whether it performed as it should, or as claimed (i.e, no one's gonna put the walls up first without it, run tests, and then tear it all down and put the walls up again WITH GG... and run more tests!). So, with that understanding, most testimonials can't seem to hold much validity, and one has to rely on lab test data. K

Considering that probably 90% of the world's population seems to be made up of thieves and murderers these days (OK, maybe a small exaggeration) I wouldn't give up proprietary information EITHER - of all the acoustic companies out there today, Brian at GG has arguably been the most helpful, insightful, and prolific THIRD PARTY tester I'm aware of. If you check their site, you'll see that ALL the published wall tests were done by an independent acoustic lab with all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Seeing as how Walmart doesn't offer such a service and there doesn't seem to be a "Wall-test-mart" chain sprouting up yet (as in, there are very few accredited labs throughout the world) I'm not sure what else GG could do to show what their product is capable of. I asked Brian in another thread whether they'd done any double frame wall tests, all I see so far are single frames with/without RC, sound board, MLV, etc - I agree that Auralex is playing it awfully close to the vest with the U-boat Durometer secret - I couldn't get anything out of Jeff while he was employed there either. If, however, one were to do as Chris is doing, buy a couple and TEST them, then I see no reason why they wouldn't work as well as any OTHER source of EPDM for a LIMITED WEIGHT, non-concrete floor such as Chris requires - When you have a weight limitation such as this, the only way I know of that can help compensate is to increase the air gap and make sure the floated floor is as heavy as you can make it under the safety constraints, as DAMPED as you can make it (GG would be an EXCELLENT inter-layer for this) including a slightly compressed insulation fill for even MORE damping - and understand that this won't make it PERFECT, only BETTER than WITHOUT these techniques. Obviously (see my description of the mega-press at my work) if there's money enough and support enough, ANYTHING can be isolated to an acceptable degree; that's not what we're talking about here. With enough searching/calling, a cheaper source of EPDM can probably be found; but for convenience, the U-boats are possibly the most sensible FOR THIS APPLICATION, provided you do your own tests per my suggestions in Aaron's floating floor thread and others. Considering the number of "foam-by-mail" ripoffs in the acoustic jungle, I don't really blame Auralex for being tight-lipped - remember, it was discovered that at least one "sound-proofing foam" seller merely copied Auralex' specs and posted them for their own inferior, NON-flame-retardant product - this is one way to keep prices down and buyers up. Behringer uses these techniques all the time, which is one reason I think they're crap. Gotta go, my own "windmill" is calling, and like Don Quixote I'm committed... Steve

Well its been almost 2 1/2 months since my last post here. While loading the air compressor (by myself) I Herniated a disk and pinched my Sciatic nerve. Which in turn left me bed ridden for two weeks solid. I am finally back about 90%. A slight limp and very cautious movement. Dying to get things rolling again I have done nothing except look out the window at the studio and wish I could get to work. The last few days I have put up the other gutter, The down spouts, 6 hurricane clips in and put the last nails in the siding to get a framing inspection. I have the electrician coming tomorrow to finally hook my power up. Box was already in and waiting two months ago. The roof was installed right before the accident. So its been cruelty at its worst These simple thing are all that have been holding for the chance to move forward. Hope all had a wonderful xmas and new year. For xmas my lovely wife got very creative and was trying to help my mood too ,,,,wanting to get the studio finished,,,, She came up with something I would have never spent the money on (mics and rack gear always top of the list) But non the less Its a fitting piece to add to the studio once I have some paint on the walls. I am blessed and very impressed with her Tom

Tom, Sorry to hear about your injury and glad your recovering :D Many of us here no exactly I you feel about looking at the project and not being able to work on it. Xmas, gigs and new baby have prevented me from working on room for a good 3 or 4 weeks. Room is right outside patio doors, I can see the room from my work desk & dining table AND every time I have a smoke I sit on the patio and look... sometimes even chain smoke just to sit and look at the exposed Tyvek. :twisted: That's a real nice light, your wife went the extra mile to get that custom made... REALLY NICE... HOWEVER be warned. I've been doing live gigs for 20 years and if there is one thing I know that will wreak interference on sound equipment, especially guitars it's neon lights. If a stage has a neon light on it, 1st thing I do is find the off switch. Sometimes the neons can be turned back on when guitar is not in use but will still cause interference depending how close to the equipment they are. Marc

Marc, Already thought about the interference and planned on a dedicated breaker just for it. I also am doing star grounding which I hope will help with any RF that might occur. Worst case is turning off during recording sessions but love the wow factor non the less 20 years and a smoker!!! Makes us both old :lol: Tom

Already thought about the interference and planned on a dedicated breaker just for it. I also am doing star grounding which I hope will help with any RF that might occur. Worst case is turning off during recording sessions but love the wow factor non the less

I am no expert BUT my bet is star grounding/dedicated circuit will not stop the neon from making noise in a guitar. I've been through many fights (lost & won) with club owners to turn off or on neon's. In fact one gig I still regular work before and after every set, the drummer was required to turn off and on custom made neon's on the stage... BUT lucky us we broke the neon (by complete accident :D ) and they've been to lazy to fix it :D Yup getting old... completely off topic but my current fav country song I cover is "As Good As I Once Was" by Toby Keith. Marc

Wow, Tom -- I'm sorry to hear about your injury, but I'm glad you're back in action, albeit at a somewhat more gingerly pace. That really is a nice neon sign! 8) It's wonderful that you have such a supportive and enthusiastic wife. I too am lucky in that regard. 8) Keep us posted... Even the little stuff is interesting. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

Well today went well. The electrician showed up on time and got the main feeder from the studio hooked up to the house. It was raining pretty hard so I pulled out the camping canopy out so he would have a dry place outside to work. He had to install 2 J-boxes to make the connection code. After he was finished it took me all of 20 mins to get my one plug, one switch and one light installed And finally got rid of the extension cord thats been laying across the yard for months now This week I will be moving in 200 sheets of Drywall, 75- 2x4s and then frame the garage door as a wall and get moving on the inside. And actually get some heat in there. Its been terrible weather lately, cold, windy and lots of rain Tom

Nice work Tom. Glad to see another OR studio going up! Keep up the good work!

Here's the latest. Electrical inspection passed. Final building needed a few nails in siding. He signed me off anyway Today was slow and time consuming. Wish I would have done 1/2" OSB and then siding to get my outer mass. Same price. But instead I cut sheetrock to about 14" wide all day. I still need to cut quite a few more pieces before I can caulk. I saved some money on not doing Tyvek and today water proofed the inside of the siding with an Acrylic water proof membrane. Thats what the green stuff is. Its meant for below grade or deck applications and is probably overkill but wanted to make sure no moisture got through the siding with the potential of molding the drywall. (Materials left over from a past job) I am having a hard time with the mess around me but want to make sure a dump run is worth the time spent. 24 degrees F today. If I didn't keep moving it was hard to stay at it. We are supposed to have the same weather all week. Tom

Awesome! Keep up the momentum!

Well finished getting the outer leaf sheet rocked today. Need to go and pick up a couple more cases of caulking. Wow it goes fast. I will finish caulking tomorrow and then start getting some insulation up. cant wait to get some interior walls framed. Tom

Well 96 tubes of caulk later and I think I need another 24-36 to finish the outer leaf. I do have to say my forearm is in good shape now. But I decided to get some of the insulation up just for a change of pace. I had about 16 bags from the old studio and think there is enough to do the outer leaf. Glad I kept the insulation. I was not able to save much of anything else but a few 2x4s. Well I will try and do some more monday and tuesday eve. and then off to Vegas for 4 days to the World of Concrete and some fun. Tom

OK so much for the caulking. Man what a job just for that outer leaf. I still need to do the gables but will tackle them on Sunday. I installed almost all of the insulation and strung nylon twine with staples to make sure it stays in place. You might be able to see it in the pics. Here is a thought for decoupling the walls from the roof joist. What do you think guys? Thick enough? I purchased all of this for $1.25 Give me some thoughts

Hai Tom, Great progression. Keep up the work, and document with pix ofcourse :) 'bout the decoupling idea. There's decoupling with the rubber on screws etc. But can't really tell if it'll work. Where are the specs? What weight? etc. Have you calculated/measured the whole idea, or is this an "I think it might work" kinda idea?

More of a "I think it might work scenario." No specs, no durometer. Just standard materials at Home depot. Looking at some of the pics for decoupling that I have seen EPDM is the standard for materials and would think in principle it would work. OK no laughing but I am in Vegas right now just won $600 and the wife and I are heading to see Celine Dion. I have heard the show is awesome. Tom

I'd take the 600 buckaroons, shove Dion and buy some proper (proven) decoupling stuff for that money ;)

Alright Ro. You win because I won. Ended up winning $4k ..Dion was a dissapointment and just ordered the proper decouplers. Pilot took us around Mt. Hood during take off "real close." I have never been that close flying out. What a beautiful mountain. Yesterday..sunday got alot finished. Need more caulk. Holy crap I have used alot. Need to insulate the roof line and gables. I framed in the garage door and will side it this week. Then I am ready for interior walls..Woo Hoo Tom

I've been on that there mountain! :D Grew up w/ it as the backdrop. (Vancouver, WA). Not to mention Mt. St. Helens when she blew her top...I was there... 8)

Aaron, It was actually a little somber as we flew over thinking about the three climbers that lost their lives a few weeks back. So a Washintonian in our presence. (thats pronounced warsh-in- tony-en) I grew up In Vancouver. Evergreen High.... You? Tom

I agree -- get some proper, professional-grade tried and true decoupling materials and leave the home-made stuff to the amateurs who only think think they know what they're doing. Congratulations on your Las Vegas winnings! 8) You know that you have to subtract your losings from your winnings to come up with your net, right? :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

No you need to subtract what the wife asks for. Then multiply the amount of shoes she can buy now that you won then add in your $ you took with and subtract the money you gave her when you had toooooo much to drink. Maybe I only have $1 Left :shock: Better check my wallet