"Bonus Room" studio, feasible?

First, a big word of thanks to you guys for the help that you give us, especially to guys like me who know next to nothing about studio construction but are trying like hell to learn. Great job! I am wanting to convert the unfinished "bonus room" into a recording studio. It will mainly be just for me.....I record mostly light/medium guitar, keys, no live drums, bass guitar possibly (might be direct into the mixer). The room is over the garage...it has 3 external walls.....one has a window and faces towards the street, another faces the driveway and a neighbor, the third faces another neighbor about 70 ft away (and part of this wall faces into the attic area).....another wall is adjoining to an existing bedroom. Due to the roof angle, the door to the studio will open inward. There is an existing door that separates this bonus room/attic from the "living area"....it is a heavy door with a plastic sweeper at the bottom. The floor is 1.5" plywood and sits on 2X12 beams with 24" OC. The roofline is slanting down on both sides at a pretty steep angle. There is nothing between the flooring and the sheetrock (which is the roof of the garage) except for some insulation that I have stuffed down there. The garage door opener vibrates the floor when activated. A few questions..... 1) The flooring does not go all the way to the extreme edge of the room (where the roofline hits the floor). Even though I will knee-wall a 44" wall on both sides of the room, do I need to extend the flooring all the way to the ends of the room? 2) Do I need to float the floor? 3) If I stagger the studs, what would be the minimum acceptable distance between the sheetrock? 4) I assume I would need to "wall in" the window? 5) If I doubled-up sheetrock on both sides (for a total of 4 pieces), do I put some sort of glue between them as a buffer? 6) From inside the room to outside, would it be best to go 5/8" 1/2" 1/2" 5/8" or does it matter the order? Or for that matter, make it all 5/8" or 1/2"? 7) I assume I put insulation between the 2 sheetrock leafs? Here is the dimensions of the room: Here is a side view: Here are photos of the room: Thanks for any advice you can give !!!

First, do NOT put anything on the inside of ANY of your framing until we've had a chance to "indoctrinate" you :wink: - this will include your doing a search on the terms mass-air-mass (and reading a LOT of what comes up) in addition to thoroughly reading through at least the first 3 threads in the REFERENCE section. So your floor joists are 2x12's on 24" centers - what's their total span, from one supported end to the other? We'll need this to see just how much more wieght can be supported by them. Next, what's the total width of the room where at least 6 feet of headroom is available? Third, would you prefer to keep the window, or is the view not worth it? Also, if you'll re-read the very top post in this forum you'll see that you missed a couple of points; one in particular is budget - without one, it's kinda pointless to suggest much... With a fair budget, you should be able to turn this into your desired space - probably NOT if you were expecting to track live drums at 2 am though... Steve

Thanks Steve.....I read thru some of the stickys, but I will read them all. The total span is shown in the first diagram....it's 15' running West-East (parallel to the floor joists) and 16' running North-South. The width of the room at 6' headroom is 6' 6" ...... I would prefer to keep the window if possible....if not, that's the way it goes.....but would rather keep it. Sorry that I missed the budget issue :roll: I was looking to spend about $3000. Luckily I don't play drums......I might want to cut loose with some Sanborn on the sax though :D Edit: If this helps any.....I took a test with my SPL meter....using "A", slow - 20.6, fast - 35 .....stood in middle of room, no outside traffic, 11:00 PM

In addition to budget, you didn't mention any isolation requirements. How close are the neighbors? Do they like you? Do you like them? :-) Have you tried putting a boom box into that area as it stands now and playing it at the level you'll be using when you're finished and seeing if you even HAVE an isolation problem? The garage door opener issue could be easily handled with a "kill switch" that would prevent anyone from opening the door while you are recording. Crude but effective. On the window, do you want to keep it for resale purposes or because you want to look out of it while you are in the room? If its the former, you could just cover it up with a wall that could be removed if you ever sold the house. len

Len, Fortunately, I get along with both neighbors....that may change after this project though :lol: The neighbor to the west (the side where most of the junk is on) is about 50' away, and their garage is the closest structure to my house. The neighbor to the east is about 70' away and their garage is closest. I'm going to try some padding on the brackets for the garage door opener in an attempt to quiet it down.....the opener itself has a "kill" switch that will disable a remote opener....you can still operate the opener from the garage wall-mount, just not from your remote in the car. I was looking at the window from a resale viewpoint....I talked to the wife last night about sealing the window up....she didn't have any problem with it....it's not a big deal to me. If I can achieve good isolation by modifying/supplementing the window, I'll do it. If there is no practical way, I'll seal it up. One of my big questions right now is whether to extend the existing flooring all the way to the ends.....seems like it would be necessary. Right now I can hear people talking outside thru the "breathing holes" in the soffit boards. But, since I'm kneewalling those two walls........ Thanks for the reply

Buy Rod's book -- it's perfect for people in your situation. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, Just ordered it from Amazon, thanks

I've been reading the reference material on this and other sites, but I still have a few questions. What are the differences between a staggered stud and not? Does the wider spring space give the non-staggered the advantage? If I went with a 2 layer leaf and 1 layer leaf, would it be better to have the 2 layer leaf on the inside or outside frame? On the 2 layer leaf, is it best to glue them or nail them? I've read conflicting opinions on this. I read that the gap between the floor and the wall should be about 1/8" and caulked. Does this apply to the outside wall as well as the inside? Any brand of door that you would recommend? Would a solid core door from Home Depot be sufficient? Thanks

Robn, it looks like you haven't done enough reading on this forum yet. Now go and do your homework, pronto! :wink:

"What are the differences between a staggered stud and not? Does the wider spring space give the non-staggered the advantage?" Yes the non staggered is the best, but the staggered is not taking up the same space so if your room is very small the staggered is the way to go. "If I went with a 2 layer leaf and 1 layer leaf, would it be better to have the 2 layer leaf on the inside or outside frame?" for you it would be the inside, as you have to add the other layer to your existing outer leaf. "On the 2 layer leaf, is it best to glue them or nail them? I've read conflicting opinions on this." GreenGlue.. If you have trouble getting the right pressure on the second leaf you can Glue and then screw it tight. Then when the glue has dried you remove the screws. I read that the gap between the floor and the wall should be about 1/8" and caulked. Does this apply to the outside wall as well as the inside? hmm, as far as I can tell from your pictures, your outer leaf would be your existing ceiling. IF you put another wall there with a leaf facing outwards you'll get 3 leaf's = BAD. So generally you'll have to make sure that your existing outer leaf is airtight, if not you can beef it up with another layer of gypsum and caulk and THEN fill the cavisties between the existing studs with rockwool. That's your outer leaf! The you build the new frame inside your room and try to build it in a way that it never touches the outer leaf, preferrably an airgap of a couple of "'s. then just fill it up and put your 2 layers of gypsum on the inside. :D well... that's the "light" explanation.. and I'll guess I'd get corrected by the ones that know more than I do. Just wanted to give you an idea what you have to do. best andreas

Ro, So I guess I need to go to "Time Out"? :D Andreas, This is what I was asking....this is looking north toward the window, a side view.....the blue arrows are where I was asking if I needed to leave a gap and then caulk it. The black lines are the existing structure, the red ones are the floor extension and the new leafs. Hope this helps

I just read the first 4 chapters of Rod Gervais book...on pages 52 and 53 he mentions floating wood decks.....he says

Reality is that you can't get isolation for a recording studio with a simple elevated wood deck. Period.

If I read that right, what I am attempting is not possible??? Apologies to Rod if I misunderstood. I called my builder today....he is going to come over and let me know if my joists can handle the extra weight.

Congratulations for getting your hands on Rod's book, and doing it so quickly. You are beginning to appreciate the magnitude of what you are hoping to accomplish. Your drawings are bad -- they're showing a three-leaf situation. Your outer leaf would be the roof and its sheathing. Then you're describing adding two leaves. That's bad. You want (ideally) only 2 leaves with as wide of an air gap as you can afford in terms of loss of square footage. Staggered stud? Nonsense... That would be acceptable if you maybe wanted a little more privacy between bedrooms. Double framing is your only hope. I would personally not recommend the "studio in the bonus room" scenario. Instead I would consider using some space downstairs (assuming you're "slab on grade") and perhaps finish out the bonus room and use it for whatever you displace downstairs for the studio. If isolation is important, I can't see it any other way. By the way, your builder is probably not qualified to answer your "can I do this safely?" question. You need a structural engineer for that. How much space do you have on your lot? If you have room for an accessory building out back, that's what I would recommend. You can build a nice two-leaf structure from scratch. You avoid so many headaches associated with retrofitting an existing building that in no way was designed with the demanding requirements of an isolated studio structure. --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, Thanks for the quick reply.......yeah, I ordered Rod's book yesterday, got it today.....Amazon is a great thing! :D On the 3 leaf thing....I guess I never stopped to think that the roof was acting as a leaf......I guess I'd be better served by just doing the doubled leaf and leaving that middle single leaf out ??? Unfortunately there is no room available anywhere downstairs. I don't have alot of room in the backyard.....it's a big yard but it has my toolshed, my wife's vegetable garden, and a couple of rose gardens in it. There is also the HVAC and electricity issue...... I should have checked on this more I guess......I just got a loan for $3000 to build this....guess I'll just have to spend that money on gear :P

Looking thru some old pictures, I came across a couple of pics of the joists in question......there is a beam that runs down the middle of the room.....actually the garage door opener fastens onto it. Using the joist calculator link from this site, it said that the maximum span for this would be 7'9" using the following criteria: Southern Pine 2X12 24" spacing 100 psf live load 15 psf dead load The total span of the room is 15'....since the beam runs down the middle, looks like 7'6" on each side. Is this right? I'm still going to consult with a structural engineer though.... Here are the pics: Of course, this doesn't address the isolation issues though...

well, you're right about the fact that you're going to have a massive construction buildt inside that space, but if the real big problem to solve is isolation from your neighbours and not your whife you could still make this happen. the idea about the second leaf beeing your outside goes like this: hope that helps best a

Thanks Andreas....... Would it be better to knee-wall one of the east-west walls shorter than the other one (the sideview diagram)? Would it help acoustically, or would it make any difference?

Well, not really, but you'll get a bit less of parallel walls but If I where you I would use that space as a basstrap. best a

You mean like this: or this:

Let's start with this -- what is the highest point that bonus room right now, before finishing it? What does your municipality's building department's model codes call for in terms of minimum ceiling height? I suspect that the headroom is very limited right now and that it may be impossible to do this project legally. And those who know me here know that doing the project illegally is not an option from my perspective. --Keith :mrgreen:

errr, I mean more or less the way I depicted it before, but you can do as you did that last way and put traps in the corners. Can't tell from your pics if you get the idea of building a room within your existing room separated from the latter. AND I'm not the one who can help you calculate the room you have and what your needs will be when you finshed the isolation bit. So I leave this to the others at the forum. OR get in touch with a professional who can help you on location. a

Andreas, Thanks for your advice.....I understand what you mean from your drawing....mine (in response) were hurriedly drawn....thanks again. I talked to a structural engineer this morning but he wasn't much help.....I will need to tear out a section of the garage ceiling for him to look at, otherwise he is not going to mess with it. I called my builder also....he said he could look at it late next week..... This stuff gets really involved, doesn't it? And I have a feeling I've just scratched the surface.....

There may be some other obstacles as well. I just thought of this -- currently you don't have "living space" over your garage, and you'd be changing that classification. Not only are there special code requirements for that (which may or may not be met already), but it may also affect your homeowner's insurance. I distinctly recall paying an additional surcharge of some kind in our last house because we had two small bedrooms over the garage. --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, I wonder if the criteria for "living space" is different from place to place? I assume that a studio would be considered "living space"....or do they consider "living space" a bedroom, living room, or bathroom only? Interesting question you've posed though....I imagine that my taxes will increase after this since I'm adding extra square footage to the house..... I was really disappointed after talking to the structural engineer.....I already know that the joists are 2"X12" because I have easy access to them right now....and since that middle beam is at least a 2X14, seems like an engineer would be able to tell SOMETHING from the picture. Actually it looks like a 2X16, but the engineer said they don't make 2X16 which is crap because I called Lowes this morning and they told me they sell them....they have to special order them, but they do sell them. To answer your earlier question.....right now the height is 8' from floor to the cross-boards....I could increase that some by moving the cross-boards up, but I'm going to run the HVAC ducts thru that gap, so I can't decrease the area too much. According to city code, the minimum ceiling height of a "habitable room" is 7'. I would just build an external studio, but it would put things way out of my budget, especially the air conditioning and heating issues. Getting really frustrated....guess it's better to get answers now though rather than later......

"Living space" is, I think, what my agent asked me. In building code speak, it's "habitable space." If you have the angled wall/ceiling thing going on, they probably also have restrictions on that. Generally a certain percentage of floor space must have a certain amount of headroom. It doesn't surprise me at all that the structural engineer would want to physically see the wood members. His deliverable would be a printed document with his certification stamp on it. He's exposing himself to a lot of liability. Lives are on the line, literally. Yes, your taxes might increase slightly by increasing the square footage of your home and making it more valuable. That's life. If you sold your house and moved across the street into a larger one, you'd pay more in taxes. Don't miss the "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread. --Keith :mrgreen: