HVAC - What to use? Is DIY an option?

I did already... Perhaps you couldn't find my dainty little 40-page thread. ;-) This is the point in my thread (August 21, 2005) where I finalized my plan, including ventilation. I got my permit about a week later. --Keith :mrgreen:

I must have gotten lazy and skipped a few pages when scrolling through your thread the first 8 times. Seems like I missed the very pages I was loking for. Found it though and again thanks!

What??? :shock: You actually skipped pages in my 40-page (and growing) thread and only skimmed it eight times?... :roll: Hey man, it only takes a day or two to read through it -- what's your excuse? ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: ;-) :lol: The worst part of it is that the planning stages I went through were hardly linear -- I bounced around quite a bit on a number of things, so it is understandably hard to follow. But, I guess that's good, because it proves a point how important good planning is on projects like these. :)

derekdun101 wrote:

How much would one of these hrv units cost that only needs to feed one room @ 192 sq.ft.?

This is one of the most inexpensive units I've found and I've searched for single room units with no luck. http://www.iaqsource.com/index.php?modu ... +exchanger

Wow! Thats the first web site I've seen that actually gives the price :D Thanks alot for the link. Now I'm on to figuring out how to soundproof this setup. I'm currently reading up on the silencer info on this site. Wish me luck! (Or add you own input :) )

I admit that I haven't done any illustrations of the silencer for my project yet... It's an "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it" situation. :roll: What I plan to do is basically add some timber to the walls and ceiling to create a sort of soffit with walls that are about as thick and heavy as the walls and ceiling it's attached to. I'm debating whether or not I will "finish" it like a ceiling and wall, or maybe I'll use screws and rubber seals on at least one of the surfaces so that I can open it up and service it in a way... Since the inside will be lined with insulation, I figure there might be a benefit to being able to access them every few years for a good cleaning... :?

This is a most interesting thread. I just found this website tonight and have searched everywhere for ideas on converting a single zone mini split to heat/cool more than one room. Glad I found some good info. :D I do not however own a mini split system yet but do have a decent size window unit air conditioner and I'm considering the "chiller room" approach after reading all this. I thought the idea for the tuned traps was good and reminds me of a time I constructed a "vent box" for a small 4x4x8 vocal booth and it worked really well to keep air flow whisper quiet. Here's a pic of the ventbox (excuse my poor artwork.) When I made the ventbox I was shooting in the dark for dimensions and even internal design as I was trying to mimick the vent box design on many commercialy made whisper booths that you see in the classified ads of recording magazines. I don't see why this wouldn't work for the chiller room /pipe system. I don't remember the exact dimensions but I built the vent box out of particle board(sides) and used 2x4 pieces as the top and bottom and internal spacers. On the spacers I mounted egg crate foam and cut two holes for pvc pipes to be inserted. I used clear silicon to seal it all up and used a laundry dryer exhaust hose with duck tape to connect from my circulating fan to the vent box.

Welcome to the forum, Ressurrector, and I'm glad you're benefitting from all the wealth of information here. Yes, your illustration pretty much captures the plan I have for my big beefy silencers. They'll be about 8 feet long, and the other dimensions will be 1 1/2 feet and 2 feet (inside they'll be 2 feet wide and 1 1/2 feet tall, whereas they'll be the opposite outside the room -- 1 1/2 feet wide and 2 feet tall, since I'll have more headroom to spare there). I'm thinking of constructing mine with one of the panels being attached with screws or bolts or something, so that I can access the entire silencer now and then for the purpose of cleaning and/or refurbishing. I would imagine that with all those turns, especially lined with insulation or foam, there's bound to be a lot of dust build-up, in spite of any attempts to filter that stuff out. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Yeah I say your right about dust buildup. Maybe you could make some kind of filter on the input or output and that way you woundn't have to open up the box just unclamp a hose or something and clean it.

I do plan on having the exhaust intake inside the room protected with a filter, and the heat exchanger I'll be using has a filter inside the core... But still, I'd like to be able to get into those silencers now and then. Another thing that has me a little concerned is the possibility of mildew or mold collecting on/in the insulation or foam, so again, being able to gain access to it would make remediation of such a thing far less daunting a prospect.

Well I don't know how you could do it exactly unless you used mirrors (for full coverage) inside the box but you could install an Ultraviolet light in the box thats rated in the UVC range (ionization potential) and that would surely stop mold and bacteria dead in its tracks. Of course those uv bulbs would get very hot no doubt and might mean putting less foam in there so you wouldn't have a fire hazard. :roll:

It shouldn't be too hard making one of the panels removable via screws or latches and sealing everything with a rubber gasket of some kind.

johnz wrote:

draws in Fresh Air Today's homes are built tighter for energy efficiency, but trap in millions of irritating microscopic particles as a result. Our unit provides a true air filtration system by drawing in fresh air through the intake duct and eliminating stale air through a separate exhaust duct. The fresh air is also drawn through a washable filter to remove impurities and create even cleaner air.

I have just sent e-mail to the manufacturer asking for clarification on this...

Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:21:57 -0700 [04:21PM PDT] From: Keith Sharward <[removed]> To: Soleus International Customer Service <[removed]> Subject: Do MAC-10K & MAC-12K Supply ROOM with Fresh Air? Hello, I'd like to know if the MAC-10K and MAC-12K units supply the ROOM with fresh air, or if they only supply the UNIT ITSELF with fresh air for proper dehumidifying and condensation removal operation. There are numerous Web retailers of your product with claims that it "provides a true air filtration system by drawing in fresh air through the intake duct and eliminating stale air through a separate exhaust duct." None of the materials on YOUR site (www.soleusair.com) claim anything like this, and I want to make sure I get the truth from those who know the product best. Thanks in advance! Keith Sharward Sacramento, California

I'll let y'all know what I find out. --Keith :mrgreen:

I got a reply...

Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:06:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Soleus vong <[removed]> Subject: Re: Do MAC-10K & MAC-12K Supply ROOM with Fresh Air? Hi Keith, How are you today? This is Tommy with Soleus Air Customer Service Rep. it "provides a true air filtration system by drawing in fresh air through the intake duct and eliminating stale air through a separate exhaust duct." Tommy / CSR Eamiled: 6-20-2006 @ 2:02pm.

Hopefully this is accurate information! Unfortunately there are no specifications that indicate how much fresh air is cycled into the room... :roll: ...so I would not recommend using this product for ventilation purposes. It probably does a fine job of keeping one cool though. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

what a lame response

Yeah, I know... :roll: ...It doesn't exactly instill a high degree of confidence, does it? :? --Keith :mrgreen:

the freash air intake is definitely their angle though, since so many other two hose units only use the fresh air to cool the conditioner coils. i bet the would get specifics when pressed, maybe one more email is in order before counting the unit out as an option.

Actually, the "one hose" units have exhaust lines, so they use room air to cool the coils, and thus depressurize the room in the process. What makes the Soleus (and MovinCool) units unique is that they hvae two hoses that equalize the pressure. --Keith :mrgreen:

I received a call from Soleus Air Customer Service in Southern California today. (I left voice mail for them a few days ago, right before I sent them the e-mail referenced above.) The representative was quick to answer the question that the unit does supply the room with fresh air. However, the conversation got more interesting when I slowed her down and pressed for details. I explained that I understood the unit had two hoses, that it is obvious that one sucks and one blows, and that if the hoses are placed outdoors and the unit is placed indoors, that indeed fresh air would enter the room through the hoses. But I then explained that I wanted to follow the path of the fresh air to verify that some of the air actually leaves the machine and enters the room, and doesn't simply get pushed out the other hose after it has cooled and removed condensation from the coils. Once I explained my question in those specific terms, she told me that she was NOT sure and referred me to their Web site, where she encouraged me to send e-mail to the manufacturer, which is in China. We already know that I did that and we have seen the answer I received -- one that I suspect was rushed and not diligently researched or confirmed. I decided to reply back to the manufacturer, stating my question in much more detail in the hopes to receive a more credible and authoritative answer:

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:25:18 -0700 [10:25AM PDT] From: Keith Sharward <[removed]> To: Soleus vong <[removed]> Subject: Re: Do MAC-10K & MAC-12K Supply ROOM with Fresh Air? Thank you for your reply. However, I want to be certain I have the correct information. In order to do that, I need to make sure you understand my exact question. Perhaps I will tell you what I believe to be true first: The unit does NOT supply the ROOM with fresh air. The unit ONLY supplies ITSELF with fresh air so that the unit does not overheat and that the condensation (water) is removed from the coils. The reason I believe this is (1) there is a competing product from MovinCool systems (http://www.movincool.com) that does NOT claim to provide the ROOM with fresh air and they have a nice video on their site that demonstrates this (http://www.movincool.com/video/videos/op10_scene.wvx), and (2) there is nothing on YOUR company Web site that makes a claim of fresh air for the room. The reason this is so important to me is that I know of people who want to use your unit to provide air conditioning comfort AND FRESH AIR FOR SURVIVAL in small, airtight spaces (music studios). An incorrect answer to my question could cause someone to SUFFOCATE TO DEATH. If in fact the unit DOES provide fresh air to the ROOM (that people can then BREATHE IN), that is GOOD INFORMATION and it should be added to your Web site. Currently it is not there. The only Web sites that CLAIM the unit provides fresh air to the ROOM are people who SELL YOUR PRODUCT. I obviously do not believe THEIR claims as much as I would believe YOURS. Now that I believe I have expressed my question more clearly and in proper context, I look forward to a reply. It is OK if you do not know the answer immediately and need to do more research -- if that is the case, please let me know that you are investigating for me. Thank you! Sincerely, Keith Sharard Sacramento, California, USA

I'll keep you posted with the response (if any). :) --Keith :mrgreen:

tell'm keith!

Sic 'em, Git 'em, Bite 'em, KILL... :wink: (Seriously, good bulldoggin'... Steve

OK, here is (I think) the closest to reality we're going to get. This is the reply I received:

Our dual hose units draw fresh air to the room but not in big amounts, it combines mostly the air from the room and some fresh air, go through the filter to be cleaned and then blow them on to the room. Basically most of the air is the room's air and small amount of fresh air. Single hose portable AC's will not draw fresh air to the room. For sound proof music studios, we do not recommend it because it could create a vacuum and it is needed a unit with lower decibels.

Well, there you have it. (Kind of.) I'm going to assume that "a small amount of fresh air" is insufficient to provide enough ventilation to make up for the lack of operable windows. So, I revise my earlier statements about the unit providing no fresh air. I will now say the unit provides insufficient fresh air and as such should not be used in air-tight small spaces as an oxygen source. --Keith :mrgreen:

thanks keith, that pretty much rules it out. i'm too trusting :wink:

My pleasure, John. :-) I think we all (myself included) learned a lesson on this one -- always take manufacturers' claims with a big grain of salt, and take retailers' claims with two big grains of salt! :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen: