HVAC - What to use? Is DIY an option?

Hi everyone, been reading up on Mini-Split type air conditioning and that they do not provide for fresh air or removing the stale air (instead, just conditioning whatever air is in your studio, control room etc.) so - what about this so-called portable unit with FRESH AIR and EXHAUST AIR ducting? Seems simpler as you are just dealing with the ducts for those and not running or having any unit outside, refrig lines, and water evaproates over the internal coil etc. 12,000 BTU SoleusAir Portable Air Conditioner http://templates.earthstores.com/1277/p ... rod=309737 SPL: 46 db/A Thoughts? thanks, David

46 dB seems a little noisy for a studio, but if you were to use that unit in the "chiller room" approach, the only outside penetrations would be the two duct lines - then, using baffled in/out ducting to the sound room itself would reduce that 46 dB by enough to let you run the AC while recording - the downside is that a normal window unit costs less than half that, but your unit would probably give more fresh air... Steve

David's link (above) has rotted out. However, I just found this and I'm getting pretty excited! Soleus Air MAC-10K

Could it be? :shock: A compact, DIY wall mountable single room air conditioner and heater and dehumidifier with fresh air circulation requiring minimal penetrations that runs on 115V and only consumes 11.4 amps for only $499 including shipping?!?!?!?!?! :mrgreen: Please tell me that I am right to be excited about this!!! :twisted:

Man, I was really hoping for some feedback on this. This seems perfect for me, and for others like me who are willing to put up with some noise in the room in exchange for all the features. The fresh air is a huge benefit -- without it I would have to tie into my house's HVAC and there are many reasons why that is not ideal! Please, say something good about this, 'cuz I think I'm going to go for it! :mrgreen:

it's only me, but guess that's better than nothing? :) i think it might be a good option for you, since you are not really planning on recording regularly (noise). one thing to check is how long those ducts can be without adding up to more static pressure than the unit can handle. depending on the fan design it may not be able to handle too many turns or too long a duct. then it may not work at all or poorly. would you vent this to outside or into your garage? i guess the garage isn't the ideal source for fresh air, but venting toward your neighbors isn't very appealing either. you will have to figure out some isolation scheme for where the duct goes outside. any ideas?

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

it's only me, but guess that's better than nothing? :)

Ha -- first time I read that, I thought you were referring to the unit being better than nothing. Now I realize you were referring to you being better than nothing! :lol: (And you are, for sure!) ;)

one thing to check is how long those ducts can be without adding up to more static pressure than the unit can handle. depending on the fan design it may not be able to handle too many turns or too long a duct. then it may not work at all or poorly.

Yup -- you're right... But I think I may have that covered.

would you vent this to outside or into your garage?

Outside. Venting to garage and sucking in garage air would never pass code. :shock:

i guess the garage isn't the ideal source for fresh air, but venting toward your neighbors isn't very appealing either.

True, but that's my only option. :?

you will have to figure out some isolation scheme for where the duct goes outside. any ideas?

Heck yeah -- Visit my post on my project thread. :mrgreen:

Update: I realized that the "fresh air intake" is only to allow the unit to breathe, not the room itself. :( I wanted to make sure this thread didn't end on a note that would lead people to think this type of solution would bring fresh air into the room.

well, this is probably the result of watching too many episodes of mythbusters or staring at too many rube goldberg drawings, but could you create a holding area for fresh air, like an airlock on a spacecraft, and dump it every so often? Perhaps an elaborate maze of twists and turns of flexible ducting (like your colon) and you could hold quite a bit of air in a smaller area.

Sword9 wrote:

well, this is probably the result of watching too many episodes of mythbusters . . .

Awesome show, BTW... :mrgreen: ...

. . . could you create a holding area for fresh air, like an airlock on a spacecraft, and dump it every so often?

Hmmm. Don't know. :? I posted to some code-related documents in my project thread that shed some light on the requirements.

Perhaps an elaborate maze of twists and turns of flexible ducting (like your colon) and you could hold quite a bit of air in a smaller area.

Dude, if I do that, I'm totally going to refer to it as "the ventillation colon." :lol: (Resisting the opportunity to carry the analogy any further!) :shock:

Sooo, you're telling me that (from your link) THIS Draws in Fresh Air Today's homes are built tighter for energy efficiency, but trap in millions of irritating microscopic particles as a result. Our unit provides a true air filtration system by drawing in fresh air through the intake duct and eliminating stale air through a separate exhaust duct. The fresh air is also drawn through a washable filter to remove impurities and create even cleaner air. Is BULL??!?

So did anybody in this thread ever try the Soleus MAC-10K for their studio? I'm considering the same unit for my small studio/rehersal space. Want to know how it worked out. Seems liek a good cost effective solution to me.

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

would you vent this to outside or into your garage? i guess the garage isn't the ideal source for fresh air, but venting toward your neighbors isn't very appealing either.

Dan, What is the issue you see with venting towards your neighbors?........ I'm curious as this isn't environmental air like a bathroom exhaust - or a powered exhaust from a boiler combustion chamber - or even kitchen odors...... Rod

Rockstar, I quickly dismissed the Soleus unit for a number of reasons... At first because the manufacturer strongly recommended against extending the hoses... But utlimately, I came to the realization that the unit (as well as other, higher-end Japanese-made ones) does not actually supply the room with fresh air... The intake hose is to supply the unit itself with fresh air. :roll: Since then I have decided to incorporate two separate systems -- a mini split air conditioner for comfort/cooling, and the Fantech VHR 1404 for ventilation. --Keith :mrgreen:

Good feedback Sharward. My rehersal space is small (less then 200 sq ft). Basically a converted one car garage. I don't need anything extremely powerful. Primarily I need ac and ventilation. I live in So. Cal. so heating isn't really necessary. I can exchange heat and air with a space that exists between the studio and garge door. There is also space above the studio that I can exchange heat with Any cost effective suggestions? Jeff

i'm also interested in the sole3us mac10 or 12. everything i've read from the manufacturer leads me to believe that the unit does bring fresh air into the room, how have you heard otherwise? thanks john

Show me where it says that.

draws in Fresh Air Today's homes are built tighter for energy efficiency, but trap in millions of irritating microscopic particles as a result. Our unit provides a true air filtration system by drawing in fresh air through the intake duct and eliminating stale air through a separate exhaust duct. The fresh air is also drawn through a washable filter to remove impurities and create even cleaner air.

Ah, OK. Well, it may do so after all... :roll: I drew the "no fresh air for the room" conclusion when looking at this commercial grade portable air conditioner. It states:

The Office Pro 10 is the first and only portable air conditioner of its compact size to offer a fully integrated air exhaust system. This system features built-in supply and return air-flow to the condenser drawing in outside air to cool the condenser and exhausting hot air out of the room rather than back into the room which is being cooled.

The video demonstrates the flow more clearly -- about a minute into it. Even if you can get fresh air out of that unit, sound leakage may be a significant concern.

Here is an option for those who already have a pre-existing HVAC system to bring in fresh air. This option can also be used as a "stand-alone" unit. (To directly connect in a room or rooms and supply fresh air and exhaust stale air) This option is a Heat Recovery Ventilator (HRV) or an Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV). This link will give you a listing of some manufacturers I found along with an explaination of what an HRV and ERV do. (BTW...thanks Sharward for turning me on to this!) http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4384 The good thing about the Energy Recovery Ventilator is "SOME" models can "ASSIST" in humidity reduction. Be sure to read the info on HRV or ERV units and call the manufacturer if you have questions. I plan to purchase the Fantech ERV 1504 unit because of: price, the fact that it ASSISTS in humidity control, it can be tapped into an existing HVAC system, it has frost protection when the temps get down low, it has one of the better OVERALL warranties out of most of the the sites I visited (and I DID visit ALL of the sites I listed), it has an optional multi-function wall control I plan on putting in my control room, the unit does not automatically transfer the same humidity levels from one air stream to the other, it helps with ridding the air of mold, bacteria and airborne pollutants, it's equipped with "balancing dampers" which are suppose to balance the incoming and outgoing air levels to be equal (same amount of air going out as coming in) and the unit is suppose to assist in lowering energy cost from my HVAC system. You make the call if this is the thing for you, but as far as bringing in fresh air in areas of the country (or the world) that have colder temps or high humidity levels, these seem to be a good thing to look into. Stan

camistan wrote:

...thanks Sharward for turning me on to this!

You're quite welcome, Stan -- but I must give credit to Florian, since he turned me onto it in the first place (actually, a similar model in Europe), and to Dan for turning me onto the Fantech site in the first place. 8)

How much would one of these hrv units cost that only needs to feed one room @ 192 sq.ft.?

I'm pretty sure they only have two sizes -- big and really big. ;-) I'm planning to use the "big" one. I think they run several hundred dollars (US).

Are you doing the install yourself Sharward or you bringin in a HVAC guy?

I'm planning to do it myself, but I may have the contractor who does my mini-split do it at the same time.

I noticed on your other posts you love to illustrate. So why stop now? :wink: Drawing up what you have in mind for your project would be a great idea!