The Stickhouse Studio BUILD

I did sleep better, 'cause I was so tired from digging them. So, yesterday we did the concrete. Well, Jeff did most of it. Fortunately, he's had experience as a concrete guy, so he knew exactly what he was doing. The step turned out perfect, and the holes weren't so critical to look nice, but he did a good job there anyway. Then we insulated the pipes under the bathroom, laid the insulation in the bathroom floor, and then the bathroom subfloor, and framed the bathroom. I think we're going to do the ceilling insulation and start drywalling today. In other news, the new studio computer showed up. It's an older Dual 2.0 G5 that has the right sort of PCI slots for my ProTools rig. So, not the latest and greatest, but should be a nice bump up from my G4. Ok, Jeff should be here any second... better get hoppin'.

Nice concrete work. :-) And nice framing work too! I'm assuming you built those walls "in place" and not on the ground and then tipped them into place (since the headers were done first). If so, that's how I intend to do my outer leaf walls I think (about 20 linear feet), coming up soon. However, that outdoor step -- it's not to code. :-( Doors leading to outside on residences need to not result in a "step down." You need (I think) 36" of level surface. There are also requirements for the steps in terms of rise and run, and if you have multiple steps they have to be close to the same height (not sure of the exact language on that). This "landing at the door" issue is what caused me to toss my floating floor plans. I would have lost too much square footage to my sound lock. It was a very frustrating time for me in my planning stages. Now I realize your home is older and was probably built before this code was adopoted. But it looks like the french door replaced a slider much more recently. That french door install needed to be done according to what was current code at that time. Technically the landing needed to be done at the same time as the door. So, for this reason, I don't think you can play the "grandfathered code" card. If anyone (a houseguest for example) were to trip and fall in that area, the person could have a good personal injury case due to the code violation... Not to mention the unpleasantness of someone -- a friend or family member -- possibly splitting their head open there. And lest you think that's hardly likely, it isn't, especially at night when there's limited visibility. --Keith :mrgreen:

Well, you're probably right. Ultimately there will be a deck that comes to the level of the door. But for now, this is where we're at, code or not. :wink:

Good day today. We put up the R30 in the ceiling and then got almost a whole layer of drywall up. Of course, we would've had a whole layer up, but it took us a while to decied exatly where the entryway light fixture would be going. Heh, heh. The drywall lifter is a GREAT tool. We did one 4x4 sheet that we had to hold up by had for a minute, and that about killed me. Putting up whole sheets wouldn't have happened. But with the lifter, it's no biggie. Throw the cut piece on, crank it up, jiggle it into place, screw it in. It's still plenty of work, and I'm wiped out, but it would've been way worse without it. If I have some energy after dinner, I'll caulk the joints and edges as far as we've got. A few pics:

wow, that ceiling looks nifty! nice work, next layer!

Thanks, Ro! Before the next one, I need to caulk this one, and then fill in the gaps cause by the bevels. Maybe we'll get through the 2nd layer by the end of the day today.

I can't wait to post some pictures of my own using that thing!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D Take your time though. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Stick, I don't think you have to calk the joints on the first layer. Save yourself some time. I'm not even sure you have to mud and tape the first layer if you are going to stagger the second layer of DW. The calk is supposed to go where wall/ceiling, wall/floor, and wall/wall (i.e., corners) joints are only. It's not necessary in the main "field" of the walls/ceilings. Knightfly, isn't this the advice you told me many months ago when I asked about it? That seems like a life time ago!!! len

Hmm, well, I guess it can't really hurt. It only takes about a tube per layer, and I'm the one doing it, so it's just my time. Good question for those doing future projects though.

oops, once was enough!

I'm probably gonna caulk the joints on each layer myself.

Well as Stick said (twice!), "it can't hurt." I guess I was just remembering back to when I was at that stage. I went through two CASES of calk (the big ones) and still have a couple of wall to floor seams to do!! len

Well, today was a good day. For one thing it was Friday, so now my muscles have a few days to recover. We almost got through the third layer, but ran out of gas. Wednesday, after the 4th of July holiday, we'll finish up that last bit and get to some framing again. The first of which will be the two inside out walls in the tracking room, so we've got plenty of room to build them and then lift or slide them into place. Today while caulking, I ran out of the first case of Titebond I ordered, and made the switch to the much cheaper Sheetrock branded acoustic sealant. The Sheetrock is thicker, and tougher to get out of the tube, but, it's a little easier to get it to stay in place when you're filling big gaps (without the benefit of backer rod). The bonus was that the lumber yard that we're getting all the supplies from was easily able to order it, and with Jeff's contractor 10% discount, it ended up being $5.40 a tube. Ok, so here's the question for the weekend. We're building the whole thing on the garage cement floor. The inner wall's bottom plate will be bolted to the floor every 4 feet or so. Since the floor has some waviness here and there, should I just caulk with our acoustic sealant, or is there something I should put down on the floor first (like glue, foam, etc.), and then set the plates onto? I'm going to guess the caulk is good enough. So, I'm hoping to get the drywall strips cut and screwed to the MDF in the beef-up wall this weekend... maybe Monday, if I don't end up playing golf. 8) And most of the 3rd layer can be caulked. And the place needs a good cleaning. I've been so tired or busy with the family this week that I've not been able to even sweep up at night. Ok, that's all for now. Happy 4th of July!

I'm a little confused. You have put up three layers on the ceiling before even one layer on the walls? That's not the best way to do it. The "normal Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" way is celing,walls,ceiling,walls, etc so that if you took a cross section you'd see a zig-zag pattern. There is a drawing Knightfly did that shows this. (Search for drywall and sequence as a start) The idea is that you want to make it as difficult as possible for the sound to get in/out. If you do all the ceiling THEN all the walls, sound has a straight shot at the joint to get out with only calk to stop it which leads to my next question: Why aren't you using backer rod? It can't be because of the cost. It's dirt cheap (if you buy it from the right place) and you can have it in only a day or so. By filling "large gaps" with only calk, you are asking for trouble down the road that can be difficult if not impossible to fix later. The backer rod is used so that the calk only touches two surfaces. If you touch 3 (notice how "3" keeps coming up as bad in acoustics!), sides, you are going to have one of them pull away due to drying out, seasonal temperature changes, natural motion in the building structure, etc. and as I already said, if you've got a straight shot because of the way you've layered your drywall, you just blew a major part of your isolation! :-( I understand the urge to do SOMETHING. To show progress. Fight the urge and make sure you've taken everything into consideration BEFORE you lay hammer to nail. I think my biggest advantage in getting as much right as I did on my studio build so far was having a separate building in another part of town (although only 1/2 a mile away or so), so I didn't have my wife asking me every day where all the money was going and was I almost done yet? :-) I could take my time and if I had any doubt, I'd ask here if I was doing (or going to do) things right. As to your bottom plates, I think you have 2 choices here (maybe 2 1/2 depending on how you count. 1) Use pressure treated lumber for the bottom plates 2) Use regular stud quality lumber and "sill seal" between the bottom plates and the concrete 3) Use pressure treated lumber AND sill seal. Sill seal is foam on a roll (like the stuff a TV comes wrapped up in) that you lay down on the concrete and build on top of. It's available at Home Depot, Lowes, and I'm sure any decent building supply place. If you don't do this, you stand a chance of moisture coming up through your cement when it gets cold and rotting the bottom plates. This can be unpleasant down the road a year or two when you end up wearing your 3 layer ceiling as a hat as it all comes down around you. It's funny in the cartoons but not so much in real life. The expense is minimal and the peace of mind is worth it. len

Hi Len, Thanks for your concern. I know it's hard to remember details in a long thread. My outer mass consists of the exterior of the house, in this case plywood/green board/siding, and the "outer ceiling" which is actually under the attic, which is well vented. So, the mass continues from the outer ceiling through the frame to the actual outside of the house. So, obviously, there is no drywall to connect this outer ceiling to. For the inside of the inner layer, we will definitely join them like you're thinking. I understand the use of backer rod. There are places I'm dealing with (like, around HVAC ducts) where even rod wouldn't help. So I'm doing the best I can. It's not going to be perfect. Like most that are this far in the process, I've spent a long time getting ready, so most of the questions I'm asking here are probably as much for reassurance as anything. However, I really appreciate the input and double checks. For the sill plate. Yes, we're using pressure treated lumber. The slab is 40 years old, so moisture isn't much of an issue, especially with the PT lumber. My question is about the acoustic seal gaps that may or may not occur where the cement isn't exactlY flat. Should I be trying to fill those voids with something other than acoustic caulk? I don't think the sill seal will serve this function. I guess I'm answering my own question. Caulk should work just fine. Man, I'm SO sore. It hurt to open up my hands when I got out of bed this morning... I guess from gripping that caulk gun and driving 3" screws up into 3 layers of drywall and into old wood joists.

So the three layers of drywall you're talking about are actually "beef up" layers a-la Sharward? That makes more sense then and sounds like you're doing it right. :-) Like MY approval is worth that much!!! :-) As to your base plates, I don't think "new" concrete is what you need to worry about. I think even old concrete can have condensation. Knightfly's standard test is to tape down a piece of plastic (like Saran Wrap) and leave it for a day or two. If you get condensation, you could have a problem down the road. Using PT lumber though it should be alright. For some reason when I read about your calking the base plates, I wasn't thinking about just sealing the seam but rather completely calking the bottom of the plate. I calked my floor/bottom plates all the way around even though I had pretty flat floors to start with. As to your big gaps (around HVAC and such) can't you make a wooden doughnut or even a cardboard one to cover most of the gap and then calk the rest? I'd be afraid of the calk shrinking if you're trying to cover such a large gap. len

Well, sort of. I'm actually doing that "beef-up" on a wall that's shared with the house. The three on the ceiling are below the vented attic but above the new ceiling that'll rest on the inner walls. As far as the caulking around the HVAC, I'm anticipating going back to touch it up and/or figure out something to seal it up better. Right now the raw metal duct is too flimsy to really get too crazy on. Once I get the vent thing in place, it'll be easier to tell what I'll have to do to seal it up a little better. And on the concrete, I'd have to do that test in the winter around here. There is NO moisture to speak of from May to November. But, I think we're good with PT lumber. I was actually asking if I should be caulking the bottom of that plate, rather than just along the edge, but it seems like the edge should be fine.

len-morgan wrote:

Why aren't you using backer rod? It can't be because of the cost. It's dirt cheap (if you buy it from the right place).... len

Just curious... where IS the best, cheapest place to get backer rod? I'm ass-u-me-ing that a drywall or concrete specialist supplier is best? I just actually bought a 20' roll (Frost King) from Homey D's, although I'm sure I'll be needing a bunch, so cheaper might not be bad... Plus, they only had 3/8" backer rod, and no other sizes... I could use some different sizes (for the between-plank spaces), like 1/2", etc... are these sizes available? Finally, does it matter what sort of 'cell' type the rod is? thanx, K

I got mine from a log-cabin kit supplier. If you check the "Building Materials" thread, I'm pretty sure it's listed. You could probably Google "log cabin backer rod" and get to the one I used. If you really get stuck I could try and go back through my "order confirmation" emails and find it. They had it in all kinds of sizes and as I recall, it was about 1/10th what Home Depot was charging. len

Here's a great post from Dan Fitzpatrick that covers the wonders of backer rod, including a direct link to the place from where he purchased it (online). --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks Keith, I was going to give Dan the credit because I thought that's where I got the link but I was in a hurry this morning. len

No problem at all, Len! 8) I found the post by using "backer cabin" as a search phrase and choosing "Search for all terms" and "Display results as: Posts." :D --Keith :mrgreen:

that credit made me all warm and tingly :)

thanx, but what about 'closed cell' versus 'open cell'? I'm assuming closed cell is the desirable kind? K

sharward wrote:

Here's a great post from Dan Fitzpatrick that covers the wonders of backer rod, including a direct link to the place from where he purchased it (online). --Keith :mrgreen:

that's what i would think ... all the stuff i got is closed cell.