The Stickhouse Studio BUILD

Wow -- great pic! 8) I'll bet it's a bit surreal to look at it from that vantage point. Dude, there's no turning back!! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok, here we go! 8 am tomorrow, Jeff the contractor and I shall begin construction. Lumber being delivered today. We've got a big honkin' parrallam beam that we'll be hoisting to fix the sagging roofline and hold the upper ceiling. And we're going to reuse the existing joists, though cut in half and turned so they go the "right" way. We'll probably do the beef for the shared interior wall this week too. Yee haw!

Congratulations!!! Take lots of pictures!! Maybe I'll head up the hill so I can wave my arms around and look important! hahaha --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok, so much progress has been made this week. Started in by breaking out some concrete and digging some holes where eventually we'll pour a couple of footings for the posts that hold the big beam. Demo'ed out the rest of the exterior, did a bit of the frame for the "window wall" (the wall that I'll look out of from the listening position) including the opening for the tracking room window. Today we put in the huge, heavy parrallam beam upon which we would fix the sagging roofline and hang the weight of the upper ceiling drywall. The lifesaver was the lifter thingy we rented to jack that beam up... probably 450 lbs. Once we had the beam up on the jack, it was a breeze to roll around into place then jack it up, and stick it in it's spot. Then with the beam in place, we forced the roofline back up to near where it should've been my wedging in increasingly taller pieces of lumber, until finally we could put in the 5 inch tall "wall" to support the roof on the beam. Amazing what can be accomplished with some wood and a sledgehammer. Then we started in on the ceiling joists. We were able to recycle some of the original joists we had to take out because they ran the wrong way. Save a few bucks there. I was quite pleased with myself... that's me up on the platform with the big nailer putting the joists in place. My arms (and everything else for that matter) are quite sore from the week's work (c'mon, I'm a musican for pete's sake), and we've got another day of framing tomorrow. We've got the plumber scheduled for Monday, so we need to frame the wall where the old garage door was so that we can get the raised floor in to set up for plumbing. Then if there's time, we'll continue on the exterior walls.

A few more pics.

Hmmm, the descriptions I'm putting in with the photos don't seem to staying when uploaded... anybody else running into that? Am I doing something wrong?

Major high-fives, Stick! That's awesome! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

So, today we added a couple straps to the big beam to satisfy the architect, and put in the bathroom floor, which is raised to allow for the plumbing to exit and join the house's main system. Originally, the bathroom was raised to match the house floor height, but when we took out the door to the house and used the space for a shower, we still had to leave it raised for the plumbing. It'll be slightly clunky to walk up a step to go to the bathroom, but better than tromping through the house to relieve one's self. We also got the part of the exterior wall framed that has the bathroom window in it. In other news, I met with the guy that will likely install the HVAC. As I feared, it looks like it's going to be a split system with 3 wall units. I sure hope they're going to be quiet enough to live with. And yes, Keith, we'll also be doing the fresh air exchanger sort of like you're doing, though probably not to the sound isolation extreme. I researched the high-velocity systems and talked to a few people about them who pretty much said "no way" with their first breath. And after explaining that I really needed 3 or 4 zones in my 470 square feet, the guy said, "that's impossible". At which point we talked about the split setups. As long as the noise isn't out of hand, it should work fine. The units have remotes, so I can turn the tracking room's unit off and on from the control room. And of course the small holes are a sound proofing bonus. I was hoping to avoid the "look" of the the split unit, but I'm limited with a complete lack of attic space. In the control room it'll go in the back above the Murphy bed, where there's a nice hole anyway. I might put the tracking room one on the wall above the window to the control room so I don't have to see it when I look in there. And since usually the mic is facing away from the window, we'll get rejection of whatever little noise there is if we keep it running. Another bonus is that the outside unit will go far far away on the other side of the house, so the mechanical noise of the unit I thought was going to be on the roof will not be an issue. So, I've got two days to recover... I'm sore as heck. Swinging a hammer is hard work. Kudos to builders around the world, I have a greater appreciation for the skill and strength the job requires.

This is looking more awesome by the minute!! 8) 8) Stick, those mini splits are going to be expensive, but given your needs I think it's the way to go. I realize you're not very enthused about the way that the look -- but having seen a couple myself, I think they look rather cool! :P They'll be quite a conversation piece, too. I'm assuming you'll be having the mini splits professionally installed. I got three estimates last year before I got my permit -- high, higher, and insane. I'll be interested in what kind of pricing you get. I'm assuming that you will not be needing heat... Because as I understand it, the Mitsubishi setup that allows for one outdoor unit to be used by three indoor units is "cooling only." If you'll have "line of sight" from the control room to each of the units, you should be able to use the infrared remotes from the control room. In fact, you might be able to use the same remote for each one. Don't worry about the noise of the units. I recall that the lowest fan speed on them is 26 dbA. That's sleepytime quiet! And, worst, case, you run it on high when you're not recording or mixing, then periodically shut it off completely when you need absolute silence. Stick, I know you said you aren't going to go to the great lengths of making beefy silencers for your ventilation system... Just be aware that by not doing so, you may be shortchanging yourself, such that all your other efforts to isolate may be severely compromised. Enjoy your break -- you deserve it! 8) --Keith :mrgreen: P.S.: If you're ever coming down the hill and want to check out my place, PM me beforehand! :)

Yeah, since we just realized that we have to go the mini-split route I haven't spent much time thinking about the ventilation thing. I know I don't have the room to do huge silencers like you're doing, that's the whole reason the traditional HVAC won't work. We'll do oversized insulated ducts and wind them around as much as we can. Or, I don't know, once we get some joists up in that area, it'll be easier to get an idea of what there is to work with. You're probably right though. No plans to head down there in the near future, though, I'll likely have to run down there for more acoustic caulk at some point. I'll definitely hook up with you next run.

Much has happened since last post. We've managed to finish the exterior wall frame, the upper ceiling joists, the MDF and cleats layer of the existing wall beef-up, and started in on the plywood layer of the exterior wall. More news after the pics:

More pics

more pics

So, now we have to deal with the HVAC system. I talked with a couple more companies, one of which is nearby and came over this afternoon. I ran the mini-split/ventilation system option by Sven, who wasn't crazy about it, but admitted he hadn't done that many installs of them. Then we got to looking at the plans and the available space, and he seemed to think he could get an appropriate traditional system in the space we have at a much less expensive price than the large chunk of change the Mini-split would be. I sent Sven a whole bunch of info and links from what I found on this site, so I'm hopeful we can get a decent quiet system one way or another. So, one guy says it's impossible, the next guy says it's the way to go. We'll see. Hopefully Sven will have a quote for both options back tomorrow. He did say he's available to put it in next week, which is good, because we're ready for it now that the upper ceiling joists are in place. In fact, the HVAC ductwork has to go in, and we have to finish digging the extra footings for under the posts and we should be ready to have our first inspection. It'll cover the exterior frame, the cement holes, the bathroom plumbing rough-in, and the ductwork for HVAC. Then we can start DRYWALL on the ceiling. Yee ha. Note the enthusiasm. Ok, so question of the day. I'm researching the fabric, because I want to put something over the exposed fiberglass insulation between the walls to prevent glass fibers from floating around. The Machine Room and the entry way share that "space between the walls". Guilford of Maine is stinkin' expensive, though good for fire ratings. Here's the question. I've got two walls separated by 2". Seems to me the fire rating of the fabric is a completely moot point, and therefore, I should get burlap or something equally cheap for those areas I'll never see. I will go for something of higher visual quality for my inside out walls and the bass trapping and absorbtion in the Control Room. Thoughts?

Very nice work! Beware of people who dismiss products they're not very familiar or experienced with. You going to cover the electrical boxes with those fire putty packs? I forget -- you got a permit? Is there a combination framing/electrical inspection coming? --Keith :mrgreen:

Yeah, Keith, got the permit. Jeff, the contractor said that normally there's 1 inspection for all the rough ins... framing, cement forms, plumbing, electrical. But, because of our double walls and multiple layers we're going to have to do a couple "rough inspections". So, after the HVAC is roughed in next week, the electrician is going to add some of the stuff that will go between walls, we add a couple of joists for the ceiling frame and finish digging the cement footing holes and we'll do the first inspection. So, I made the decision to go with the traditional HVAC system that a local guy is going to do. It is going to cost a third less than the Mini-split/Ventilation set-up. I don't have the space to get too crazy with silencers and hugely oversized ducts, but based on the discussions I had with Sven, the AC guy, I think we can make the compromises in the right spots to keep the air and transmission noise down. The Mini-Split may or may not be quieter than the ducts, and then I'd need the ducting for the ventilation system too, adding the transmission risk, so by combining them and saving money, it seems like a good way to go. And fortunately, he can start the rough-in on Monday. I'm going to be around to "help" and see what he's doing to make sure we get it right. Tomorrow, we're taking the day off of building, and I'm going to go order the exterior windows and the exterior door, and talk with the glass guy about the heavy panes I'll need for the interior walls, then to the temporary studio to get a little work done, and then a quick 9 holes to try and keep my golf swing from completely falling apart. I also need to make some progress on the audio wiring... I'm having a hard time getting people to get back to me, so I guess I just need to get them on the phone and hash it out. I didn't take many pics today... but we finished the plywood layer and a few touch-ups. My arms are wiped out from doing all the nailing with the big nail gun. That thing has a pretty good kick, especially reaching left handed off the top of a ladder. A 4x8 sheet of plywood has something like 40 nails in it. Sheesh. So, more next week... have a good weekend everybody!

Awesome! 8) So, how much fresh air will be supplied through the conventional system? Is it enough to meet code for the rooms that contain no operable windows? What model codes does your municipality use? (Mine uses the 2001 "California" codes.) --Keith :mrgreen:

That's a good question... I'll double check that with Sven. I know the fresh air side of it is an add on to the main unit, but I'm not sure about the figures. So, no takers on my fabric question? Is anyone besides Keith reading this? Not that I don't appreciate you Keith... heh heh.

Ok, so, unless any of you guys have some reason why I shouldn't, I'm going to order basic Burlap for the "between the walls" spots, and probably Guilfords of Maine for the bass traps and the inside-out walls in the tracking room. In other news, I spent a couple hours hashing out the HVAC routing with the "tin-knockers", as Jeff the contractor calls them. I think they've got it boiled down to a good plan. Because the main unit on the roof is pretty big for such a small space, they're going to put a drop into our laundry/utility room to let off some of the excess when needed. This is a good thing, because the air from our house's system barely makes to that end of the house, and that room is always hot. Today, after I explained the goals and no no's, we planned for most of the morning, then they cut the hole in the roof and placed the support stand for the unit. I think tomorrow the unit will go up on the roof, and they'll start wedging ducts into the limited attic space. One cool thing we're doing is running a big return duct under the bass trap near the fireplace and utilzing the dead hole in the plan for big ductwork. So that bass trap will sit on a platform with a big grille to let out plenty of air. One less hole in the ceiling! I spent the day doing caulk on the plywood exterior, patching the crack in the cement floor, and then digging for the cement pilings under the beam posts. And that my friends, was no fun. I was at it for a few hours and probably dug 2 square feet about 8 inches down. The ground might as well be bricks. Ugh. And to top it off, the area I'm digging is already about 3 feet below the cement floor. Not so fun. I'll take some pics tomorrow. Also tomorrow, I'm going to get the prices on the few exterior windows, and also the the thick panes that'll go in the interior walls. And I came to the realization that since I'm doing basic Milgards for the exterior (well, I'll likely spring for the "sound rated" ones (yeah, yeah, I know 3 masses, blah blah blah)... they're not much more expensive (it's only 2 windows) and you get a little more glass mass in one of the panes), and only doing plywood/green board/siding for mass on the outside, that spending a boatload of money on a fancy-dancy exterior acoustic door was probably silly. So, we'll go for a more standard door with above average weather sealing. And again, the noise escaping to the outside isn't a huge deal, as the neighbors are far away, it's the noise from the house to the studio and vice versa that we're really after controlling. That's the story for now. Not as fun when we don't see big changes, but progress nonetheless.

Stick, Tell me why you feel you need fabric between the walls? I think you mentioned that you only have 2" between them. What fibers are you worried about migrating? If you have an exposed area between two walls, why not just cover that area where people might be? As an example, if you look at my thread, the area between the big room and the vocal booth is double walled (but about 6" apart) as you pass through the double doors. I'm only going to cover around the door frames since people aren't going to be wandering between the walls (at least I hope not!). I would not put up just plain burlap without some sort of flame retardant. If you'd like to know why, go buy just a strip of burlap, hang it outside on a stick or something, and then take a match to the bottom corner. It's an eye opener! This is the reason carpets will be ok on floors but NOT hung on walls. They burn differently. And yes...others are watching. :-) len

Ah ha! Thanks Len... it's sort of silly that I didn't put it together like you so plainly stated. I'll just put a piece of fabric up the "seams" to seal off the spaces behind the walls, and use the Guilfords in all the spaces people will be. Funny how you think about this stuff day and night, and yet miss the easiest of solutions, not to mention solutions that others have already come to. DOH! I glad others are watching... Here's a couple pics my wife snapped: me caulking and the almighty drywall lifter purchased from the rental yard at the lumber store for more than half off the new price. And I've got a buyer waiting for it when I'm done... Mr. Sharward! Don't tell him that I'm going to jack up the price when I sell it to him... wah ha ha ha! (Just kidding Keith! :wink: )

Stick wrote:

Funny how you think about this stuff day and night, and yet miss the easiest of solutions,

Sometimes it just takes another pair of eyeballs that HAVEN'T been living with your problem night and day. It reminds me of when I was doing all of my calking of drywall joints. I got a fancy gun that wasn't supposed to drip but it still kept running out of the tube long after I wanted to stop. I was thinking up lots of ways to make a screw on cap of some sort that would prevent this from happening (and making millions on my invention of same) when my carpenter/electrician helper came in to work and I told him my idea with calk gun in hand. He reached in his pocket, pulled out a wire nut and screwed it on the end of the tube and said simply, "Like that?" :-) Needless to say, I canceled the order for my Ferrari (right after he left). :-( len

Ah, WIRE NUT! Good one. Yeah, I've been using blue painter's tape for the same problem.

BOY, am I glad I saw THAT tip... It seems like the caulk has a mind of it's own...just keeps runnin' and runnin'

Stick wrote:

. . . the almighty drywall lifter purchased from the rental yard at the lumber store for more than half off the new price. And I've got a buyer waiting for it when I'm done... Mr. Sharward! Don't tell him that I'm going to jack up the price when I sell it to him... wah ha ha ha! (Just kidding Keith! :wink: )

Aha -- now I see your strategy for making up for your going over budget! :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice lifter!! IMPORTANT: If the serial number is in the range between A070830 and A078877 -- do you know if the rental yard replaced its defective cable sheave? --Keith :mrgreen: