Dan F's One-Room Garage Studio

Cool progress Dan, One more thing to mention about masonary drill bits. There are the expencive and cheap masonary drill bits... the expencive ones will outlast the cheaper ones BUT, be careful to not throw them in a pile with all your regular wood drill bits (as I have done). I have no idea how to tell them apart. A wood drill bit in a hammer drill will go through concrete, not as well but not using the hammer drill everyday I can't yet remember the difference in feel. But I know the difference in the result (in concrete walls atleast) that is the screw or bolt going in the hole will not stay securely in place when driilled with a wood bit :roll: I hope you didn't kill that Ryobi drill, it wasn't that long ago we chatted about it and then you bought it. I think my father inlaw has one of those, it's been abused for years and still goes. My Rigid 18V cordless hammer drill is still kicking some good butt. In fact I made a point during my electric work to bring it out and the workers went "oooh... ahhh... our boss needs o buy us one of those" :D Marc

Congrats on the progress there, Dan! I know with a new crumb cruncher in the mix that it's hard to make time to get out in that garage and make sawdust. Keep up the good work -- you're educating a lot of people here. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

well time for my monthly update. I have to admit I've been a little hesitant to post lately because I'm a little embarassed about my shoddy construction methods and pretty crappy job i'm doing. BUT, in the interest of presenting concrete examples of actual studio construction, no matter how crappy, i'll continue. PLEASE remember, you do not necessarily want to do what i am doing. okay then. how to deal with the corner where the outer leaf walls and ceiling meet had been a huge conundrum, and i finally solved it. i wish i had figured this out before i had put up the wall blocking my garage door, since it would have been much easier to do things in a different order. obviously, the fact is that there is more than a little triple leafing going on here. i've got two leafs of ceiling, plus the roof itself becomes a third leaf. we knew that already. so it should not be surprising that we actually have a little more triple leafing going on where the roof meets the walls. i decided to make the connection between the outer leaf ceiling and wall the same way i did the corner. i framed this out on one end of the garage. in retrospect, maybe i could have done it differently, if i had decided to beef up part of the roof that runs between the outer leaf ceiling and the outer wall, then i could have minimized this third leaf area. when you add up the square footage it's a lot of area. but, i'm not too excited about the idea of beefing up the roof. the actual thing that is keeping me dry. in a few years i'll have to have a new roof put on, and maybe something could happen in this process that screws my beef up. anyway, i've done the framing and i think i'm going to go ahead with the gypsum. maybe i will do the other end of the garage differently. in any event, i'm going to insulate the area between the second and third leaves the help dampen down any resonances that might occur. the good news is i had my dad here over the weekend to position and tack in all of my outer leaf ceiling joists. you may remember that we put them up there weeks ago (months ago?) and they have just been sitting there. NOT a good idea, as a few of them got severely warped in the intervening time. oh well, i'm going to brace them so they should work ok. so remember, try to use the wood you buy soon, or at least, don't leave it someplace where it will be baked, like in a garage attic space. pix of the joists to come. here are some pix of the corner and third leaf framing i spoke of. o yeah there is one more good news to report. i have decided to spend some of my free time actually doing music instead of just working on the studio all the time, and so that has been good. kind of helps keep me motivated to complete thsi project. of course my stuff is mostly terrible (since i don't play any instruments or sing, and know very little about writing music) but i'm having fun anyway. oh yeah, and metal angle brackets rule. remember to keep plenty of them on hand and lots of little nails for them

"since i don't play any instruments or sing, and know very little about writing music" Just curious, why are you building a single room practice room if you can't play anything or sing?, I don't see anything about recording any any of your posts either. As I said, just curious that's all. JohnG [/quote]

i was kind of joking ... kind of. i do OWN some instruments ... and a microphone ... :P

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

i do OWN some instruments ... and a microphone ... :P

...And he's not afraid to use them! :twisted:

a few updates. have been working steadily toward finishing the outer leaf ceiling structure. am within striking distance of sheetrocking the outer leaf, but am not sure yet whether i need to put ventilation up above the c ceiling yet or not. i probably will, if it is practical. it's just wasted space otherwise. but it may be difficult or may compromise the airgap, so still pondering. i had this 1 1/2 inch conduit supplying power to the house, that was in my way ... in the way of the new joists. rather than notch the new joists and weaken them, i raised the two problem joists 1 1/2 inches and added 1 1/2 inches of wood on the bottom of them, using 3 1/2 inch screws every 6-8 inches plus liquid nails to attach the new material. actually i had to add material to just about all of the new joists, in varying thicknesses, because the old joists were so uneven. but that's finished now so no worries.

by the way i used the heavy duty joist hangers here, just because why not use the heavy duty right? they are just a little more expensive. but WHOA, did you realize that each hangar required 20 nails, it took me like 3 different after-work sessions to get those nails in. what a pain. yes i know this contruction looks sketchy, but keep in mind there is a 2x10 immediately behind the truss that the nails also go into. so i feel pretty good about it being solid. also you can see i ended up jamming a shim into the hanger on the right ... if you are doing something like this where the joist is already semi supported without the hangar it might be a good idea to solidly support the hangar with a 2x4 or something, then let the joist rest on it, so that there is a solid connection between the joist and the hangar bottom. normally this would not be a problem but since my joists rested on top of existing joists there was no real weight on the hangar when i put it in place. don't know if that makes sense or not.

a couple more items. one, i like these "quick change" drill bits, i just learned about them recently and they are pretty cool, check it out if you don't know about them. but what has really impressed me is the difference in nails you can buy. this is obvious to anyone who knows construction, but to me, even though i'm reasonably handy i never realized how different the different types of nails are. you want to use "common" for joist hangars, for example, not "box" ... the common are much thicker in diameter and so are stronger. but what i have found is not only are the common stronger but they are just much easier to use, since they rarely bend on you. the "box" will bend in a heartbeat if you are the least bit off axis. but the common you can practically hit at a 45 degree angle and they will still go in. that is pretty awesome. i have a few box nails around but i just won't use them anymore because i am just so used to the non-bending indestructibility of the common. also i think i am ready to graduate from the 19 oz hammer to something more robust. but i am too cheap to go buy one ... but it is funny to go back to the "normal" hammer, with its pathetic smooth face, and try to hammer a nail with it. the waffle head rules. except i did hit my thumb with it finally, that kind of sucks. stupid 1 1/2 inch nails ... pic: box vs. common

Dan, I always learn something from your posts. :) I'm kind of unclear on the joist raising thing though... :roll: ...What were those joists supporting before you raised them? Were they supporting the gypsum boards that you pulled down early on in your project? Will they ultimately be supporting your outer leaf? --Keith :mrgreen:

Hey Keith ... Those joists, the lighter colored ones on top of the darker ones running perpendicular, are brand spankin' new joists, they didn't exist before i put them in. They will be supporting the outer leaf, since the original 2x6 joists were way too wimpy to support anything. not only are the 2x6 too small to run that 18 foot length, every other joist is not even a solid member, but is spliced in the middle with plywood. The original joists were 2x6 going the 18 foot length, the new joists (above the old) are 2x8 going the 13 foot length. there is a bit of a gap between the old and new which should close up once the gypsum is added on the new joists. Looks like the ventilation phase will be starting soon. Exciting times :P Dan

Ah yes, it's coming back to me now. :-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Dan, can you re-phrase your ventilation concerns? Maybe even a pic or sketch or two? Thanks... Steve

Hey Steve, thanks for checking in ... My plan is for fresh air only. I have just bought the fan I am using, a 8" Fantech inline duct fan (see here) my plan is to have fresh air blown into the upper corner of the room away from the workstation, and the old air will be blown out thru a vent in the bottom opposite corner on the workstation side. i'm probably going to vent both inlet and outlet through the roof. not exactly sure how much silencer-type stuff i'm going to do yet. i'll probably do just one rather than two, two (one for inner leaf, one for outer) is probably overkill. more details as i figure it out ... :D Dan

Dan, you might also get your hands on a speed regulator to control fan speed (less speed is less noise ofcourse). Have you calculated the air-refresh needs?

Hi Ro, Yes I'm going to use a variable speed switch ... to change the air every 15 min i need 100 cfm ... the fan does anywhere from 481 cfm to zero depending on how much back pressure there is. i decided it was best to oversize it assuming that i would have a fairly high amount of back pressure. this fan will do 100 cfm with almost 1.5 inches of back pressure. the longer the length of duct and the more turns the more pressure there is. but 1.5 is a lot. i'm fairly sure i won't exeed that based on what i've been able to figure out. i'm hoping there won't be any noise ... i'm going to isolate the fan itself on some soft rubber, and the fan will be pretty far away from the room duct, with some turns, so hopefully ... :roll: the air noise might exist, maybe i should make a plenum at the end of the run to help silence that. good idea ... :)

and a circuit break (flexible tube) in the air ducts ofcours :) speed fan can, must, control both engines (in/ex haust) ofcourse, else you'd have under/over presure. But I reck'n you're a clever guy and thought of that already. :D

well maybe not TOO clever, Ro ... i was planning on having only one fan, which puts air INTO the room. i was going to leave the outlet passive. do you think that will be a problem? do you think i need 2 fans?

The heat recovery ventilator I will be using has two fans in the same box -- one for incoming, and one for outgoing -- and supposedly there's a way to balance them if there's more pressure on one vs. the other. I think you pretty much have to do have two fans, Dan -- otherwise the outbound vent and duct would have to be much larger than the incoming one...? :? --Keith :mrgreen:

I knew you were going to say that, Keith :D Hmmmm. that makes the heat recovery ventilator seem less expensive, if yu compare it to buying two $200 fans :cry: :cry: for me ... :) for you however, my gut tells me one fan will be enough. if not, i can always add another fan. i have just installed a whole house fan in my house, where the fan pushes air into my attic and then it creates enough positive pressure to push the air out of the roof vents. so i think it should work on the same principle. the only thing you have to worry about is too much back pressure which reduces the flow, and can stress the fan and burn it out. i'm just thinking of the room as a (very) large plenum in my duct system. but i'm definitely having the switch on the inside incase i'm trapped by the positive pressure :twisted:

I too had a whole house fan once -- in my old house. Yeah, the whole house fan that I installed without a permit! :lol: (That was before I knew any better... :roll: ...But the home inspector for the people who bought the house said I did an excellent job, particularly with the electrical! :D) Anyway, there are requirements that a whole house fan must meet. The total amount of surface area of the roof vents must exceed a certain amount for the fan to work properly. One of the things I had to do in my case was count how many vents I had along the eaves to make sure I had enough potential air flow through them. Remember that the HRV will (supposedly) transfer or recover heat for efficiency's sake, so you may be better off getting the HRV in the long run. --Keith :mrgreen:

yep you are right about needing extra ventilation from the roof to outside ... i worried about that a lot on the first 2 houses i installed the whole house fan on, i put in at least 2 new dormer vents in the first house, on the second house i put in a bunch more eave vents ... but the one i just put it i decided to see how it went without installing anything new. there are so many square inches of hidden venting from cracks etc i figure ... i don't think the airflow is as good, so i need to put in some eave vents i think. but so far it has worked fairly well and the motor has not overheated. i'm a bit lazy or couldn't you tell. sometimes i think 90 percent of life is figuring out what you are "supposed" to do that you don't really have to do. i only brush my teeth once a day too. i'll let you know how that is going as i get older :twisted: and of course i don't floss, don't be ridiculous. anyway, looking at the prices for HRV i'm still ahead money even if i did have to buy two fans. and i notice the HRV is a 6 inch duct, which isn't too bad but with my 8 inch if all goes well i should be able to turn it down very low and still get good airflow. i don't know where i got 4 air changes per hour though. i guess the HRV is designed to do 0.35 air changes per hour. so i guess i'm pretty oversized :P but that is a good thing if i'm only using one fan. oh well i guess we'll all find out soon enough ...

in my last house i put in a exhaust fan in the garage, the way i wired it was i just chopped the end off a heavy duty (heavy enough, i made sure) extension cord, wired it to the box, and snaked the cord around some beams until it reached an existing outlet where i plugged it in. i thought for sure i was going to have to fix that when the buyer's inspector came, but i guess he never saw it. :twisted:

having only 1 exhaust engine in your duct line for getting rid of nasty smells for example is okay to do in normal living spaces and such. But now you've got this niffty room all taped, muded and caulked air-tight. What's your plan? blow in fresh air only? And hope your other pipeline will get rid over overpressured room air? hmm, I'd use 2 engines instead. blow in, blow out. I got 3 practise rooms a kantina and a control room all air-refreshed with 2 pipe-engines. They're some heavy dudtie bastards which are run on a fan-control unit. They run a 1/4 of their max speed, silent but effective. You don't need THAT much air-refresh, just some gentle refresh will do fine. just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your insight, Ro ... I'll definitely make a contingency plan to add a second fan. here's what i'll do. i'll put the fan on the exhaust duct, and if i don't get any fresh air coming in on the intake side, i'll know i'm going to need a second fan. it's going to take a while before i'll know, since i don't have a door or even a complete exterior leaf ...