Small Home Drum Studio

Can you just post a graph? I don't know what to do with that file, called "iLividSetup.exe". Looks like an application???

Reed Black wrote:

Can you just post a graph? I don't know what to do with that file, called "iLividSetup.exe". Looks like an application???

I apologise for that, they've changed it since I last used it. You can download the file below where it says "download from sendspace" The bit you clicked on above was an advertisement In the mean time I will look for somewhere better to upload it to

Can you post some images as well? We try to keep as much data as possible embedded within posts here so others may learn from your process... Your link off-site may no longer exist four years from now when some young chap is trying to learn from your situation! Thanks. R.

Here is a screenshot of the overall REW analysis. Can you let me know what other screenshots it would be useful to have. For instance which areas you would like to see zoomed in etc

It would be better if you could post the actual REW data file. I can't figure out what your graphs are showing, but the REW data file will let us look at all aspects of the room. - Stuart -

It won't let me post the REW data file because it's too big. But i'll upload it to somewhere else so you can download it again

Try "Box" or "Dropbox." I think they both provide a certain amount of data storage for free. It's true: the size limits on file-posting sometimes make it impossible to be consistent with what you provide. Alas. But every Kb of data costs John some of his hard-earned money, so something's gotta give! :D R.

Reed Black wrote:

Try "Box" or "Dropbox." I think they both provide a certain amount of data storage for free.

Thanks mate, weirdly I forgot about dropbox, i've had it installed for ages You can now download the analysis of my studio from here Thanks guys

Soundman2020 wrote:

Also, maybe you could post a brief sample of you playing the drums. Set up a single high quality mic in that room (a U47 or C414 if you have one) at maybe six feet or so away from the drum kit, not close to the walls, to get a decent amount of room sound. Record a couple of minutes of different styles, just a few seconds of each.

Hi Guys, here is the sample of the drums within the room that Stuart asked for. I used an Shure SM81 positioned as shown in the diagram below with the mic pointing straight up to the ceiling. I tried to get it as far away from the kit as possible without going too close to the wall. Let me know what you think You can download an mp3 of the sample here and a wav file of the sample here Thanks guys for your help so far Alastair

here is the sample of the drums within the room ...

... thud ... BOOOOOM .... thud ... BOOOOOOM! :) OK, that pretty much confirms what was evident on the graphs: You have some major modal stuff going on there. And it seems to be exactly where predicted, according to room mode calculators. You first three axial modes are predicted to be at 46.8 Hz, 61.1 Hz, and 70.3 Hz, and on my DAW it sure looks like you are hitting all of those, and a few more besides. Solution? Bass trapping, and LOTS of it. What you have is clearly insufficient, and needs some pretty hefty upgrading. On the image you show above, I would go for the two vertical corners on the left of the room: Superchunks, floor to ceiling, and as wide as possible. Hopefully you can get them 90cm across the front face, but make them 60 cm at the very least. I'd also go for all four horizontal corners (wall-ceiling), with corner absorbers: Simple panels of 4" 703 placed diagonally across those corners, once again as big as possible. You also seem to have some flutter echo going on, which is especially evident on the side stick and toms, so I'd suggest some absorption on the open patch of wall on the left of the image, and a large, hard-backed, angled cloud hung directly over the drum kit. It's a small room, and will always have a "small-room" sound to it, but the above should at least help to tame the terrible modal ringing, the flutter, and the overall acoustics. You never did upload the REW file so we can take a look at that, so please do so, and once you have installed the treatment, please repeat the REW analysis and upload the new version too, so we can see what effect it had, and what additional treatment might still be needed. - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart that's really helpful. I'll have a look at the suggestions in more detail later and draw up some plans for new treatment and then get your feedback on it. That's great though

Soundman2020 wrote:

You never did upload the REW file so we can take a look at that, so please do so, and once you have installed the treatment, please repeat the REW analysis and upload the new version too, so we can see what effect it had, and what additional treatment might still be needed.

I did but you obviously missed the link (or it didn't work) You can download the REW analysis from here Thanks

Oops! :oops: :oops: OK, got it now. And it confirms the same issue, wonderfully. All three of your first axial modes are present and accounted for, at about 45 Hz, 59 Hz, and 70 Hz. Pretty much exactly where predicted: There's plenty more going on in there, but you only measured up to 200 Hz, so it's hard to see the mid-range stuff you mentioned! :) REW says that your big boomy first axial is topping out at nearly 600 ms, so no wonder that place sounds so bad. It also says you have an issue at 195 Hz, with a 530 ms tail on it. That sounds awfully close to the fundamental of the snare, depending on how you have it tuned. The spectrogram hints at other issues around 100 Hz, 138 Hz, and just above 200 Hz, where you cut it off! And finally, the raw impulse response seems to be showing lots of reflections going on, but once again it is hard to tell since we are only looking at low frequency data. Can you repeat that test, but set it to measure the entire spectrum, from 20 Hz, to 20 kHz, and re-post the data file? - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

There's plenty more going on in there, but you only measured up to 200 Hz, so it's hard to see the mid-range stuff you mentioned! :) Can you repeat that test, but set it to measure the entire spectrum, from 20 Hz, to 20 kHz, and re-post the data file?

Oops! Dunno how i managed to do that. I'll repeat the test and measure the entire spectrum in a few days and post the results up for you

Soundman2020 wrote:

Can you repeat that test, but set it to measure the entire spectrum, from 20 Hz, to 20 kHz, and re-post the data file?

Hi Stuart I've repeated the test now measuring from 20Hz to 20KHz. You can get the new analysis from here Thanks again

I've repeated the test now measuring from 20Hz to 20KHz.

Pretty much confirms the same thing: Ringing at around 38, 46, 51, 58, 90, 117, 130, 223, 230, 260, 305, 330, 360. and nulls at 67, 165, 184, and 224 apparently. If those are all modes then the spread is nicely even (due to the room dimensions), but the peaks and nulls are pretty steep. I still think that your best bet is a lot of deep, thick, wide, broadband bass trapping, to tame some of those. Like I said before, it's a small room and will need lots of bass trapping. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

I still think that your best bet is a lot of deep, thick, wide, broadband bass trapping, to tame some of those. Like I said before, it's a small room and will need lots of bass trapping.

Ok so if i start off with a couple of Superchunks in the corners as wide as i can get for the two vertical corners and then all four horizontal corners wall-ceiling with corner absorbers. Currently i have broadband absorbers in the two corners of 60cm across but they're made up of 4x5cm deep pieces of insulation. Is the fact they are 4 thin pieces rather than two thicker pieces part of the reason they aren't working very well? Thanks

Ok so if i start off with a couple of Superchunks in the corners as wide as i can get for the two vertical corners and then all four horizontal corners wall-ceiling with corner absorbers.

That would be a good start, yes.

Is the fact they are 4 thin pieces rather than two thicker pieces part of the reason they aren't working very well?

Perhaps, but the basic probably is that you don't have enough of them. The entire room probably needs a lot more absorption targeted at low frequencies. I would even consider a hard-back cloud, angled, and with absorption both above and below the hard backing. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Perhaps, but the basic probably is that you don't have enough of them. The entire room probably needs a lot more absorption targeted at low frequencies.

Would it be a good idea if it's possible to remove the top part of the shelving unit (as shown below) and then do the two corners on the that side of the room and that wall as well?

I would even consider a hard-back cloud, angled, and with absorption both above and below the hard backing.

How would i go about doing that? Could you show me any diagrams or pictures of what you mean exactly? Is it ok to just reuse the insulation I used previously for my broadband bass traps or do I need anything better?

Would it be a good idea if it's possible to remove the top part of the shelving unit (as shown below) and then do the two corners on the that side of the room and that wall as well?

That would probably help, yes.

How would i go about doing that? Could you show me any diagrams or pictures of what you mean exactly?

This thread might help. Scroll down three posts, to the diagram posted by Glenn: The clouds are marked. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16399 There is an example in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16406&p=115482

Is it ok to just reuse the insulation I used previously for my broadband bass traps or do I need anything better?

You can probably re-use it, but I don't think there will be enough. You are going to need a lot more additional insulation. - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart that's great. For the walls would I need an air gap behind the insulation, for example 2" of insulation with a 2" gap. Or would it be better just to do 4" of insulation? Secondly, would it mater if the corner Superchunks were not all the same size? For example if I could only get some of the wider than 60cm, would it better to have two of the at say 90cm even though I could only get the other two 60cm wide? Thanks

I would go with 4". If you can also have a gap behind, that would help too. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

I would go with 4". If you can also have a gap behind, that would help too.

Ok thanks, how much of a gap should i go for at minimum? Also I edited the last post and so you probably missed the second question but does it matter if the corner superchunks aren't all the same size? If I couldn't get two of them as big as the others is it better to have all 4 the same size or 2 of them one size and then the other two slightly bigger? Thanks Stuart

does it matter if the corner superchunks aren't all the same size? If I couldn't get two of them as big as the others is it better to have all 4 the same size or 2 of them one size and then the other two slightly bigger?

They don't really need to be the same size, and if you are able to make some of them bigger, then go for it! Bigger is better. The gap behind the side panels isn't critical: it just helps to extend the range a little lower. Some folks say that the gap should be the same as the thickness of the insulation, but there's no theoretical support for that, as far as I'm aware. Any gap is good, so just make it as big as you can afford, in terms of space. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Simple panels of 4" 703 placed diagonally across those corners, once again as big as possible.

Just checking whether this needs to be a single piece of 4" insulation or whether it's ok to stack several 1" or 2" on top of each other. Thought i'd better check since you specifically said 4" Also does it matter what angle you put them at? Is 45 degrees best? Thanks

It would be easier to do it with 4", from the point of view of just cutting and stacking! With 1", you'd have to make four times as many cuts... :)

Also does it matter what angle you put them at? Is 45 degrees best?

The angle doesn't really matter. Whatever fits your room is fine. Once again, from a practical point of view, either 30° (60°) or 45° would be easier for cutting and for efficient use of materials, but acoustically the angle isn't that important. - Stuart -