Hello everyone. Well here we are, almost 2 years later. I hope you've all kept well. After building a temporary booth, we have started building the final studio. Again I will be forever indebted to all here who shared their knowledge, allowing me to climb this steep learning curve necessary for me to design the best studio possible. If you want to have a look at the original design threads here they are:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13149
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13549
I have attached a couple of pix of the build so far at the bottom of this post - the recording booth. The control room will be build in the second phase. They are both being built on the 'room within a room' principle. The outer walls are the walls of the building for one side (2 ft wide) and breeze blocks for rest. The inside walls are 2 sheets of plasterboard (drywall) sandwiching green glue. These inside walls are built on a screed laid on Regupol, a 5mm rubber compound made of recycled tyres. The ceilings rest on the walls. The recording room and the control room are two independent rooms built on two different screeds not touching each other.
The recording room will be used to record vocals as well as any instrument we can fit in!
I have a question at this stage of the build, regarding the cloud. Ideally I would like it to be hidden with the covering fabric as in the picture below
But does it need to be 'floating' - or can it be attached to the fabric? Reason why I can't float it above the fabric is that the spots will be inset in it.
The other alternative is:
What would you advise? Total height between floor and plasterboard (drywall) ceiling (where you the green line) is 2.65m. There will be 5cm of 703 equivalent (45kg/m3) of acoustic treatment fixed underneath the ceiling drywall.
I'm proposing to build the cloud with two sheets of 5cm 703 equivalent sandwiching a 10mm plywood sheet. What do you guys think? Is the second sheet of 703 (the one on top) unnecessary? Should I rout slots in the plywood? The total size of the cloud will be 300cm X 135cm.
Looking forward to reading your replies, your questions, and please don't hesitate to let me know if there's something unclear!
l'etable - construction phase
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 16441.
Just realised, about the hanged ceiling cloud: 'floating' might not be clear so by that I mean 'hanging freely'...
Is it something I said? Did I upset anyone? ...
Seriously, are those such stupid questions that nobody wants to embarrass me by telling me it is?
How are you planning on attaching the 703 equivalent to the plywood? i think more is better especially in such a small room so use it on both sides.
Hi Brian, thanks for your reply - the bottom coat will be attached to the plywood with screws going through small battens then 705 then ply, the top coat will be just screwed as the ply will support it.
Now, should I rout slots in the plywood? Or... well, not? What's the reasoning behind slots in clouds?
And... Can I have the fabric covering it as explained in my previous post or does it need to be hanging freely?
Thanks again - more pix coming soon BTW!
I think I would glue it in place before I ran screws into it. An overhead cloud is not a generic piece and will be slotted or not depending on the rooms behaviour. The slotting reduces the hard reflective area and allows the absorption to be more effective.
But typically and overhead cloud wants to be absorptive...not hard, to begin with. Sometimes a hard back is used in an attempt to break up room modes.
it looks like your slat resonator is facing the wrong way... make it a "saw tooth" so reflections are moved past your seating position. since you're putting hanging broadband absorbers over head. i'd split the cloud into 3 sections over the desk and leave about 100mm gap between them. hard back, absorptive face.
Sorry for delay in reply work and visiting family kept me away from building...
Brian thanks for that - in my case as ceiling and floor are parallel I need to break this so a hard back will be used.
Glenn thanks for your input - you know what? Many, many people saw this plan including studio professionals, acousticians, sound engineers... and nobody spotted that - but now you say it it's kinda obvious, so will do!
When you say that you'd split the cloud into three sections, is that sawtooth-like or continuous? And just for my education why would you split it and leave a gap in between?
And regarding these clouds, as I explained earlier they'll have spots in them and I ideally don't want to expose them so I'd like to hide them with the stretch fabric as per etable_cloud_1.jpg - but would this restrict them from working the way they're supposed to? are they supposed to be hanging freely?
Finally, two pics of the (very slow) evolution of the build. First pic: double layer of drywall sandwiching greenglue on the ceiling, walls will be the same. Second pic: flooring being done. thin underlay to absorb and even out the imperfections of the so-called "self-levelling" compound done over the screed (bear in mind the screed itself is poured onto a recycled tyre crumb underscreed sheet), then OSB - it will not touch the walls.
Not only are the resonators facing the wrong way...but the symmetry for a control room, from left ear to right ear, is not there as well.
You're right Brian - sorry if it was unclear but by recording booth I meant ISO booth.
I was looking at where the desk is...this would be a monitoring/mixing room.
Just curious, but why do you have the room (CR) oriented that way? Would it not be better to follow the more common method, and have the speakers firing down the long axis of the room, instead of the short axis? As it is now, your head is pretty much exactly in the geometric center of the room, on all three axes (length, width, height). That's about the worst possible place for it to be. It also means your speakers are going to be way out on the edges somewhere, in order to be far enough away from your head to be useful, and that probably puts them beyond a 90° intersect angle, which means a very, very tight sweet spot, and it even looks like your right ear wont be able to "see" the left speaker at all, and vice versa. So I guess there must be a really major overriding reason why the room is set up like that. Is this just meant to be only a basic tracking room, not intended for mixing, mastering or critical listening at all?
- Stuart -
Thanks Brian and Stuart for your concern but to reiterate, what I have posted about so far (plan, photos and question) is about an ISO booth - vocal and instruments. At the bottom of this post is the full plan with the CR on the left and the ISO on the right.
Now, would anyone have the answer to my question about the cloud re. free hanging vs. being somehow restricted in lateral movement by the fabric that would be over it as well as the rest of the ceiling, as described in my earliest posts in this thread? Cheers!
Really? No taker on my question? Build has stopped a bit because of work and other obligations but pix to be posted as soon as there'll be progress - next job is to rout all the seals in door and jambs, install said jambs,and hang the 150kg door...
Really.Really?
How eloquent Brian! Is it a case of nobody having the answer to this question?
Sir, it is Brien...not Brian or Bryan or any other configuration. An overhead anything, really, should be mounted hard to the upper surface. Now I have no idea what a lateral movement means in respect to something that is mounted hard. Most of what we talk about and do around this forum is to make certain that nothing is vibrating, or shaking. I think if you would have made a suggestion as to what exactly your mounting methods were, then we could have narrowed it down and said "do this or do not use that". But that failed to see the light of day in respect to this item. To reiterate...an overhead cloud does not have movement, it is by design, heavy and should not move. Does that answer the question? :)How eloquent Brian! Is it a case of nobody having the answer to this question?
Right, BriEn it is then, apologies for that! Answer my question it does indeed, ta very much! I was (obviously wrongly) always under the impression that clouds were supposed to be hanged with wires so that they would float hence my question. But now that you stated that they should be hard-mounted to the ceiling then I can go ahead with building them the way I wanted which is brilliant. Again, I'm very grateful for your input!
You could use wire but the hardware required brings in more moving parts that could, over time, weaken the eyelets in either the joist above or the cloud frame below, to become a hazard.
I want to say that most folks, that I have seen and I did mine this way as well, in a confined area, use heave duty (1/4 inch to 3/8 inch ) crown bolt turnbuckle hook / eye hardware.
This bracket will maintain a strong connection and allows to "level" the cloud with the turnbuckle, while reducing moving parts and increasing load capacity.
What you're saying makes sense Brien, especially as it allows for adjustements in the angle of the clouds. Again, thank you very much for the time you take to help out - what you and the other knowledgeable people - and John for putting this forum together also - is very commendable. I'll post updates when... there are some!
Glenn, finally found the time to reflect your comment re. resonators and amended my plans - is it what you had in mind? Cheers!it looks like your slat resonator is facing the wrong way... make it a "saw tooth" so reflections are moved past your seating position. since you're putting hanging broadband absorbers over head. i'd split the cloud into 3 sections over the desk and leave about 100mm gap between them. hard back, absorptive face.
By the way Glenn, I think that when you posted the above you were under the impression that the plan was one of a CR. As it is an ISO booth would you still go for what you recommended, ie. 3 clouds, or go for a single large cloud hard back, absorptive face? Incidentally could you explain the reasoning behind the splitting of clouds into sections? Just being curious and wanting to learn, but I understand if you don't have the time to explain, you're a busy man!it looks like your slat resonator is facing the wrong way... make it a "saw tooth" so reflections are moved past your seating position. since you're putting hanging broadband absorbers over head. i'd split the cloud into 3 sections over the desk and leave about 100mm gap between them. hard back, absorptive face.
And while I'm at it in the questions department...
Do you guys think I'd be better of with the big superchunk on the top right of the plan as in version 1 or with a smaller superchunk and hangers as in version 2?
version 1
version 2
Door frame finally done - was a right pain in the arse to do but looks superb (done in american walnut veneered mdf), drywall going up, feels like I'm eating acoustic sealant, reordered a LOT - a tip for peeps based in Europe: AC 50 900ml box of 9 for £3.50 a cartridge, the cheapest I've found
http://www.sealantsandtoolsdirect.co.uk ... c50900box9
And no, I don't work there! Pix to come as soon as I find the time to snap.
Meanwhile, if anyone fancies chiming in about my question re. super-superchunk vs. smaller chunk + hangers feel free :wink: Cheers!
If anyone at all knows about big superchunk re. smaller superchunk plus hangers please let me know - I'm now ready to put them on and could do with a knowledgeable answer... Cheers!
PS; just in case, the room size is 4.20m x 2.50m, ceiling height is 2.63m, and to reiterate, it is a ISO booth for recording voice overs, vocals and any instruments that can fit in it, including drums - cheers again :shot: