Need some advise for new design.

gullfo wrote:

since the depth is shallow, i'd just make it 2'x4'x4" cloth absorbers, if you can 4" off the wall that will help, and leave about 12" between them. put one absorber on each door as well.

With the panels, both 2 inch and 4 inch, should we leave them open backed, or add plywood to the backs.. (pretty sure it will be open backed but just to be 100% sure.) Also how would I calculate the spacing, width and everything else of the slats for the live room.. And should slats be added to the panels on the rear wall of the control room?? Thanks everyone!

there is a slot resonator calculator on the design forum which is quite good... chances are though, if you span the corners with 3/4" thick MDF or plywood, 3' wide slat panel, using 1/4" opening for slots, 2'6" wide, and spaced between 2" and 6" apart (see some other topic areas and John's designs for patterns) you should be in good shape. optionally, 1/8" plywood 3' x 7' poly (i.e. bent about 7.5" deep) over the super chunk (leave top and bottom open) you will get diffusion and absorption. no plywood behind the absorbers.

gullfo wrote:

there is a slot resonator calculator on the design forum which is quite good... chances are though, if you span the corners with 3/4" thick MDF or plywood, 3' wide slat panel, using 1/4" opening for slots, 2'6" wide, and spaced between 2" and 6" apart (see some other topic areas and John's designs for patterns) you should be in good shape. optionally, 1/8" plywood 3' x 7' poly (i.e. bent about 7.5" deep) over the super chunk (leave top and bottom open) you will get diffusion and absorption. no plywood behind the absorbers.

I understand everything except the part of the "if you span the corners with 3/4" thick MDF or plywood, 3' wide slat panel, using 1/4" opening for slots, 2'6" wide, and spaced between 2" and 6" apart (see some other topic areas and John's designs for patterns) you should be in good shape". I really dont know what you are talking about here.. As for the poly over the super chunk.. We would cut the mineral wool in 2x2 triangles lay them from floor to ceiling and do the wood frame with the bent plywood only.. nothing else.. this would be ideal to place where in the corners of the live room, or does this work all around the control room too.. Sometime tonight I will layout the floor plan showing a few things and hopefully it matches what you have explained here. Thanks gullfo for all your help man..

i would do the polys where ever they can fit. here's what i mean by the slat panels. obviously you need to create a sealed cavity behind them so making them full height or soffiting them off top and bottom.

gullfo wrote:

i would do the polys where ever they can fit. here's what i mean by the slat panels. obviously you need to create a sealed cavity behind them so making them full height or soffiting them off top and bottom.

Is there a specific formula for those slat panels.. and would I do this in the live room.. or can I do this in the control room too. Also whats the other option that we have for the bass trapping of the control room.. cause we dont mind the front super chunks.. but can we make a massive complete wall size panel 4 inch thick for the rear wall? Im trying to come up with a floorplan with the update but some how i cant get exact measurements in Sketchup.. and I really dont know how to use it.. so I guess i have to figure it out.. but the idea would be.. Control Room - Super Chunks in the front corner walls. 2 1x4x2 panels next to the super chunks (tv will be mounted in the middle) 2 2x4x2 panels in the wall following both windows (small piece of wall) 4 2x4x4 (or complete 4 inch bass trap wall) on rear control room wall Clouds hanging over mix position, mid room and rear of room angled at various degrees Panels mounted on doors Iso Booth - Scattered 2x4x2 panels around the room 2 slim bass traps (where suggested) Clouds scattered on ceiling Live Room - Scattered 2x4x2 panels around the room and clouds on ceiling Clouds mounted in between lighting fixtures Bass traps (or suggested slat walls) where suggested Sorry for not including the Floorplan will try to do my best.. Hopefully all this works correctly.. correct me if im wrong.. Thanks

Whats up guys.. Well here im going to attach a suggestion to see if the treatment options that we have layout out would actually work as a starter point.. Sorry for my really crappy sketchup skills.. What we were planning on doing was to place super chunks in the front corners of the control room, and the live room. The clouds in every room will be at different heights and angles, hanging off the drywall ceilings with eye hooks and chains. In all the rooms as well we will scatter 2x4x2 panels to tame echos and reverb, maybe some 1x4x2 in some tight spots to not leave too much drywall exposed, but at the same time, we dont want to deaden the rooms too much. Over the windows, Glenn suggested some panels that will hang over them when we are mixing. They will hang with eye hooks, or with some other type of discrete method, so that will not be so obvious when not in use. As for the rear wall of the control room and the live room.. We are not going to be able to build super chunks due to limit space and width of the corners. Glenn suggested that we did the super chunks all around the wall-ceiling corners, but we were wondering if the following would be effective, to be able to start working the rooms, and later on with a better budget option to do the super chunks all around. This what we had our eye on.. We saw this in J.Sayers recording manual, where it states that depending the depth of the closed cavity and the thickness of the front wood panel, these traps can be tuned to achieve really good absorption, and diffusion at the same time, cause of the angles, and we know that it will reflect some high frequencies, but i think that with the clouds and the other traps, there wont be many reflections coming to us.. If this is effective in our situation, what type of formula, or better diagram can we follow to build these? Can these panels also be covered in fabric, replacing the wood, to tame the reflections if they worsened? Hopefully all this information can help us make a good decision, cause we need this place done asap, bunch of projects in the way. With those earnings, we can focus later on in a more detailed and secure working enviroment.. We are still open to suggestions, but I hope that all this can work Glenn and everyone.. Thanks in advance

looks good. the clouds in the small booth should probably be the same as the other rooms. the low frequency absorbers can have slots cut into them instead of simply being panel traps.

gullfo wrote:

looks good. the clouds in the small booth should probably be the same as the other rooms. the low frequency absorbers can have slots cut into them instead of simply being panel traps.

Glenn thanks for your response once again. Is there a specific slot length or pattern that needs to be done for this to be effective, and is there or if you can provide me with a detailed blown up ilustration on the low frequency absorbers to have a more detailed plan to work from, such as demensions or something.. if you can i would appriciate it. Also one thing that i didnt include on the diagram was that i will do the super chunk on the rear wall-ceiling corner above the low end absorbers, for some added security. For the small room ceiling, we already have some lights installed (shown in some previous construction pics) that we need to place the panels around it, the light is in exact middle of the room. We plan on starting the treatment next week and should have some tests run the following week, hope all this is succesful. thanks for all the help, you guys are awesome. :yahoo:

cut 1/4" slots (dado blade or plunge router will work) space them 3", 5", 7" apart and mix them up - leave 6" on either end of the panel and the cuts. another option is cut the strips from plywood and use a numeric sequence. vary them across units. here's a rough approximation of John Sayers slat box.

gullfo wrote:

cut 1/4" slots (dado blade or plunge router will work) space them 3", 5", 7" apart and mix them up - leave 6" on either end of the panel and the cuts. another option is cut the strips from plywood and use a numeric sequence. vary them across units. here's a rough approximation of John Sayers slat box.

Whats up everyone Hope you guys had a good Thanksgiving with your families. Congrats Glenn for the moderator spot, its well deserved. Well for a quick update, we are in the treatment/window process of the studio. We are DIY all the acoustic panels, clouds, everything, but I had a question concerning the back wall of the studio. Does our plan look good for a good rear-wall treatment, which is just the insulated, drywall wall, with the peaked absorbers that i had posted a few posts back, and that glenn provided a bad-a%& sketchup of. Or should be go with a "inside-out" or more panels on the rear wall idea, or should we stick to the absorbers, just curious cause we dont want to build these things, and then that they wont help out (but we really hope they would work, cause they look really nice and will give the room a good vibe, both visually and acoustically). Also if it is a good idea to keep the panels, is there a specific size that these panels should be, or should i just follow what Glenn provided, including the slat sizes, or using a calculator for that, cause we dont want to leave the back wall too exposed either, as we also plan on making a wall/ceiling corner super chunk as well to help with some low end capture, due to the backwall not having wide corners. EDIT: Can we make instead of the rear panels being 4 ft x 4 ft or something like that can we make them thinner, and longer to add a few more to the rear of the wall, or would it be just fine.. (i think i should stop and wait on you guys) Hopefully tonight I can post up some pictures of the super chunk process that we are in, and plan to start building the frames for the panels and the clouds. Thanks for all your help guys, you are the best. :yahoo:

depending on the meaning of panels - if they're slat resonators, i'd check out John's slat designs for some usable patterns. if they're for reflective purposes, i'd use mine. if you want you can make them narrower and taller either way.

gullfo wrote:

depending on the meaning of panels - if they're slat resonators, i'd check out John's slat designs for some usable patterns. if they're for reflective purposes, i'd use mine. if you want you can make them narrower and taller either way.

What other idea would you give for the rear control room wall, cause we dont want to leave too much untreated surface on it, some thing like a big bass trap 2x4 framing with insulation and stretched fabric (no angles on the framing due to no space) or should we just stick to the absorbtion panels either your idea or johns? Should have some pics up from the basstraps later on tonight. Thanks for the help, and sorry for the bother with the back wall situation.

i would make the wall absorptive. if you can angle the back wall to expand out at the top it will be better. add some widely space slats for some HF reflections. where are you putting the HVAC?

gullfo wrote:

i would make the wall absorptive. if you can angle the back wall to expand out at the top it will be better. add some widely space slats for some HF reflections. where are you putting the HVAC?

Glenn thanks man I was thinking about doing the back wall like that completely absorptive, and with the angle like that but was not sure about that idea for our place.. would 4 inches on insulation be good, or should it be less. What would you recommend for the slats, is there an idea on the site or one you can provide (sorry have to show it to the owner of the place) or a specific formula, or can i just get some different thicknesses of the slats and scatter them or make a pattern (random) or follow a specific guideline available for a certain or various frequencies. As the HVAC, the system is already installed, the place was supposed to be a recording studio before us, but it never went through so the original owner designed the electricity and hvac to meed the needs for this specific use, there is a pro recording studio next door to us (private) and their hvac system and ours is completely silent, no rumble, no air noise nothing. Can't wait to get all this acoustic treatment stuff figured and working to get this place up and running. Thanks for all your help guys.

if you cannot angle it, go with the 4" thick and if you can, space it out 4". the slats can be strips of 3/4" MDF or plywood and vary the size and spacing, say 1"-3" and space 4"-8" should be enough.

gullfo wrote:

if you cannot angle it, go with the 4" thick and if you can, space it out 4". the slats can be strips of 3/4" MDF or plywood and vary the size and spacing, say 1"-3" and space 4"-8" should be enough.

Thanks Glenn.. Does it matter if we mount the slats vertically or horizontally? Under the slats it would be fabric, and then the insulation in the 2x4 frame with 4 inch air space? Does that sound correct? No need for superchunk in the wall/ceiling corner right? And no diffusors needed cause of the slats? Sorry for the million questions, thanks man for everything.

slats could go either way. aesthetics. fabric then insulation in frame. optionally put a super chunk on the wall-ceiling corner over it. you really cannot get enough bass trapping into that small of a space.

gullfo wrote:

slats could go either way. aesthetics. fabric then insulation in frame. optionally put a super chunk on the wall-ceiling corner over it. you really cannot get enough bass trapping into that small of a space.

Glenn thanks, one question on the slats for the rear wall, can we mix absorption frequencies, such as different thicknesses of the slats, widths and everything, and to what should we start this, cause we still dont know what frequency will give us issues, we need something as a starting point, i did find the slat calculator, but still dont know what frequency to start at. Thanks man

the slats won't be adding Helmholtz action, they're just there to break up the deadness...

gullfo wrote:

the slats won't be adding Helmholtz action, they're just there to break up the deadness...

So it can be like 2" wide, 1/2" thick slats just mounted on top of the fabric spaced 4" apart, Or alternate sizes ranging from 1" to 3 " and alternating the spaces? Thanks

yes

gullfo wrote:

yes

Thanks man, we are working on the treatment now, pics will be uploaded soon. Thanks for everything

Whats up guys. Well we are working really fast and the results of the place as of now are amazing. The place is super quiet, tight sounding, but with a crazy flutter echo. We are working on the treatment as we speak. We have done the superchunk bass traps with the stretched fabric (impressed with my fabric skills :lol: ), we are also building the frames for the treatment panels, as well as the back wall panel Glenn suggested. We have also mounted the glass for the rooms (what a pain) and no leaks at all. We plan on using heavy drapes over them for better room looks and it is easier to move around than hanging panels over them, but might use the panels as well. The issue we are having now is the placement for the clouds in the rooms, specially in the control room. My question on this is.. is there a specific angle needed for these to be effective, cause we plan on using a 6ft long, 2ft wide, 2in thick panel right over the sweet spot and a 6ft long, 4ft wide, 2in thick in the towards the back of the room, but dont know if these have to be mounted in a specific angle or what not. Also will the clouds be effective if split into sections, like instead of one long panel, split that into 2 or 3 and place them at different angles as well? Tomorrow i will swing by the place and take some better pictures of our process and with a real camera, no more cellphone pics. Thanks for all your help guys, you are the best.

where are you experiencing the flutter echoes? also you can build a series of clouds and use a variety of angles - 30°, 15°. 7.5° etc to shape the space. download/file.php?id=36375&mode=view

gullfo wrote:

where are you experiencing the flutter echoes? also you can build a series of clouds and use a variety of angles - 30°, 15°. 7.5° etc to shape the space. download/file.php?id=36375&mode=view

Thanks glenn for the diagram and response. Now as we dont have the rooms treated yet, we have alot of flutter echo but because of the bare sheetrock walls. We still have not treated any walls yet other than the control room. We will use the ideas from this diagram for the control room clouds, and an extra one in the back of the room angled as well. We also plan on building some basic 1x4 and 2x4 panels for the clouds for the live and iso booth as well. Anything else that you suggest for the treatment for these rooms will be appriciated. Thanks everyone, picture update later tonight