What kind of doors are you guys using?

in theory you could make a super pocket door or slider - it's all about the proper seals when closed. maybe a set of smaller swinging doors would be better though - say 600mm each would give you an 1200mm opening... and would likely be easier to build or buy the right seals and only have a minimal footprint compared to a single larger door.

A quick question thats probably already been answers dozens of times. But I'VE somehow managed to overlook the answer. What is a the better solution a double door system with airlock or a single Super door. Between CR and LR. I have two door ways opening to utility rooms one with my Heat Pump etc the other is just a cold room with a natural air vent( two 75mm PE-h pipes to the outside for air circulation). A third is to the rest of the house. Am I ok to the Utility rooms with a single door? What are your recommendations.

What about a steal framed door filled with Concrete ? Heavy it would be!

Check out this thread to see the designed door come alive. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5506&p=123675#p123675

ReneO wrote:

A quick question thats probably already been answers dozens of times. But I'VE somehow managed to overlook the answer. What is a the better solution a double door system with airlock or a single Super door. Between CR and LR. I have two door ways opening to utility rooms one with my Heat Pump etc the other is just a cold room with a natural air vent( two 75mm PE-h pipes to the outside for air circulation). A third is to the rest of the house. Am I ok to the Utility rooms with a single door? What are your recommendations.

If you got a seperated wall system, use a seperated door system as well. Match the door's mass to the wall's mass. Same goes for a single partitioned wall. A door is just a part of the wall. It's a special part, sure. But it's just part of the wall. Threat is like so.

I've made a concrete door which consists of 3" x 2" C16 tanalised wood made into a frame 3 inches deep, I clad one side in 12.5mm plywood and filled the door with concrete so it was level with the top of the wooden frame. The concrete was left to dry and another sheet of 12.5mm ply used to to clad that side, AC-50 acoustic sealant was used to bond and seal the ply to the frame along with screws every few inches all round. I'm not sure if this would pass any type of building code or regulations but it's worked for me. The door could actually be made a bit thinner as I found the weight was much higher than that of the dense concrete blocks I used for the wall. It probably weighs around 250kg. I hung the door with 5 very high grade hinges, although I may add one or 2 more to make it extra safe

I've made a concrete door which consists of...

Wow! That sound pretty cool. Got any pictures of that? It would be neat to see how you did it. And I bet it isolates rather well. A pair of those should be awesome for isolation. - Stuart -

I've just done some testing of my new super doors and they really do the trick, the shear mass of them just blocks everything, I've made one the way I mentioned earlier and the other has a core made from 5 layers of 12.5mm acoustic plasterboard sandwiched and sealed together with AC-50 acoustic sealant, I've still got to put the seals on them, but I must be getting an STC of about 65 just as they are, the plasterboard door is hanging on a 'room in a room' construction with 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard and RW3 rockwool in the cavity, the outer room is just a normal brick constructed garage and has the concrete door. I've still yet to seal everything properly, but we had a band rehearsal in there the other night and you could barely hear a thing outside, probably about 50db or so, the general outside background noise is around 60db so it's difficult to measure anything properly until later in the evening, I'll put some pics and stats on as soon as I've got some reliable figures

Spot the slight error in judgement on where the end of the bench was :) Concrete door going into place The dangerous part, the door did fall once when I was trying to stand it up on my own, it put a crack in the concrete inside, luckily I managed to avoid getting flattened and I sealed the crack with sealant which seems to have worked OK The finished front of the Studio The 2 doors in place

Very cool Freestyle_Media ! That's really DIY, and looking good.

has anybody tryed the safe n sound acoustic doors? or is solid wood door better? im doing a double door system and adding mass to the door with greenglue and acousitic foam. also all sealed. i was gonna go with the safe n sound door cuz of price but any input is appreciated. thanks

Does anyone know of any type of device that could put pressure on the inside of a door which "squeezes" it into its respective seal? I either didn't do a spectacular job or things have moved a bit. In my head I picture some sort of "marine grade" device which has a "tightening wheel"(??) and 2 feet that push on the door jamb and the door at the same time. I'm too lazy to draw this atm, however. (For the record, I'm now practicing with an extremely loud band in my garage at ridiculous hours of the night/morning in a very quiet, residential area so let it be known that if you follow the rules here you will probably prevail. 100% isolated room within a room. 3 layers of drywall. And oddly enough, the lows seem to be taken care of. The guitars seem to escape a bit and the tiny crack of my imperfect seal seems to be the culprit. Crazy.) I've got a bolt/lock that serves this purpose on the top part of the door and I'd rather not put another whole in it to fix it at the bottom. The bottom part tends to bow out a bit (probably from the pressure of the bolt/lock above it) and that's what I'd like to "squeeze" into the seal. Any good ideas? One of these days I'll post pics of my project. Took me about 5 years to finish. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! But it works. :cop: :finger:

One option is to use a magnetic seal for one of your seals. The same type as you find around the edge of a refrigerator door. Guarantees that the entire seal is air-tight. - Stuart -

Hey Stuart. Do people usually use the magnetic stripping in conjunction with the trunk rubber? Or is it just a 'magnetic stripping alone' type deal? Thanks (as always) for the response!

There are plenty of options available. Magnetic (with or without seals) solutions, check Lou's topic. Or these 'ball' closers, dunno the name. I myself use automatic door-closers which are spring loaded, check viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5506&start=135#p125170

I will be making doors our of 2x4's plywood on one side sheet rock on the other insulation in the middle. Each door is about 4" thick.

I will be making doors our of 2x4's plywood on one side sheet rock on the other insulation in the middle.

That makes a two-leaf door. Two of those back to back is four-leaves :shock: , so the low frequency isolation of such a door would be very poor. That's why the general recommendation is that each door should be a single leaf, very sold, very massive, so that the two back-to-back doors make a proper 2-leaf system. - Stuart -

Please explain 2 doors back to back? I'm just going to have one of those doors for each door enterance. NOT two. one two leaf door NOT two two leaf doors

Please explain 2 doors back to back? I'm just going to have one of those doors for each door enterance. NOT two. one two leaf door NOT two two leaf doors

Good isolation for any studio is based on the MSM principle, also known as fully-decoupled two-leaf isolation. In other words, if you want decent isolation ("soundproofing") for a studio, then it has to be built such that the walls and roof are two-leaf systems, where the leaves are separated from each other by an air gap. So for example you might have an outer leaf that consists of OSB with siding on it, attached to one side of the first stud frame, then an inner leaf that consists of two layers of drywall attached to one side of the second stud frame, and the two frames do not touch each other. That's a two-leaf system. This is sometimes also called "room-in-a-room" construction, since basically that's what it is! You build one room inside another room. So, since the walls have to be built as two-leaf systems, that means that you MUST HAVE TWO DOORS for each entrance: one door goes in each leaf. One door is in the outer-leaf, attached only to that first stud frame, and the other door is in the inner-leaf, attached to the second stud frame. If you only have one door, then that means the other leaf has an empty hole in it, where the door should have been, and therefore there is no isolation at all... - Stuart -

If you read my new post on my thread I'm not sure that I need a total wall in side wall system as my MAXIMUM (The highest I ever got rounded up, not counting the planes flying over head but they are doing that alot less now) readings for A range fast 48db and slow 42db and for the C range 75db fast and 62 db slow. A single wall with cement board on both sides and batt insulation in the middle has an STC of 41 which correct me if wrong is roughly 41 dbs of noise reduction the C and A ranges and, if that is correct that means I would need maximum 1db of A and 21db of C in my rooms. What is the acceptable db of noise in a studio? Are you trying for zero? But that is only when a semi-truck goes by and that is about 0-2 times a day but you never know when. Ambient For A fast & slow are both under 30db and meter will not register with my meter and Ambient C is 42db fast and 38db slow and 50db fast and 42db slow near my neighbors AC/ Heat. So Except for the live room I'm thinking that everything else will be single walls.

and for the C range 75db fast and 62 db slow.

So you are getting peaks of 75 dB in the range that humans (and mics) are most sensitive to? What is your NR goal for the room? Assuming something typical for a home studio, such as NR 25, that means you need at least 50 dB of isolation to knock the peaks down. And if we take the average level instead of the peak (62 dB) you still need about 40 dB of isolation...

A single wall with cement board on both sides and batt insulation in the middle has an STC of 41

depends on how thick the cement board is, how deep the studs are, the properties of the insulation, and how well the wall is built and sealed. It COULD be as much as STC-41, but more realistically is going to be around STC-35.

has an STC of 41 which correct me if wrong is roughly 41 dbs of noise reduction the C and A ranges and,

Well, no, that's no correct. STC rating has nothing at all to do with how many decibels the wall will attenuate, not on A or C, or any other weighting scale. STC is a single-number system for RATING the isolation that provided by walls in the normal speech and typical house/office/school noise part of the spectrum. It tells you nothing at all about how well the wall isolates music, machinery, or anything else. I can build a a wall rated at STC-50 that does a terrible job of isolating rock music, and I can build you another wall rated at only STC-40 that does a fantastic job of isolating rock music. That's because STC does not consider the entire spectrum of frequencies: it omits two and a half entire octaves at the bottom end of the scale, and another octave and half at the top end of the scale. It was never meant to be a system for rating studio walls, or industrial walls, or any other type of wall than a typical wall in a house between two rooms, where people are taking, the radio is playing, and the dishwasher is running. STC tells you a lot about how well walls will stop that type of sound, since that is what it is designed to measure, but tells you zilch about any other type of isolation.

if that is correct that means I would need maximum 1db of A and 21db of C in my rooms.

It isn't correct, and you are looking at things from the wrong perspective, which is why you are arriving at such answers.

What is the acceptable db of noise in a studio? Are you trying for zero?

Like I said above, acceptable noise inside rooms is measured on either the NR or NC scale. Typical for a home studio is roughly NR 25. This is also NOT a measure of decibels!! It is a reference to a noise perception curve, based on C weighting and the Fletcher-Munson curves.

Ambient For A fast & slow are both under 30db and meter will not register with my meter

Forget A weighting: it tells you nothing useful about isolation. Stick to C weighting, which more closely represents the way humans perceive loud sounds. - Stuart -

and for the C range 75db fast and 62 db slow.

So you are getting peaks of 75 dB in the range that humans (and mics) are most sensitive to? What is your NR goal for the room? Assuming something typical for a home studio, such as NR 25, that means you need at least 50 dB of isolation to knock the peaks down. And if we take the average level instead of the peak (62 dB) you still need about 40 dB of isolation...

sounds good would a double wall system with 5/8" drywall on the inside wall and 1/2" durock on the outside wall with 2x4 studs filled with 3 1/2' thick r-13 fibreglass insulation and walls spaced approx 2" apart achieve this?

A single wall with cement board on both sides and batt insulation in the middle has an STC of 41

depends on how thick the cement board is, how deep the studs are, the properties of the insulation, and how well the wall is built and sealed. It COULD be as much as STC-41, but more realistically is going to be around STC-35.

Ok, Good to know

has an STC of 41 which correct me if wrong is roughly 41 dbs of noise reduction the C and A ranges and,

Well, no, that's no correct. STC rating has nothing at all to do with how many decibels the wall will attenuate, not on A or C, or any other weighting scale. STC is a single-number system for RATING the isolation that provided by walls in the normal speech and typical house/office/school noise part of the spectrum. It tells you nothing at all about how well the wall isolates music, machinery, or anything else. I can build a a wall rated at STC-50 that does a terrible job of isolating rock music, and I can build you another wall rated at only STC-40 that does a fantastic job of isolating rock music. That's because STC does not consider the entire spectrum of frequencies: it omits two and a half entire octaves at the bottom end of the scale, and another octave and half at the top end of the scale. It was never meant to be a system for rating studio walls, or industrial walls, or any other type of wall than a typical wall in a house between two rooms, where people are taking, the radio is playing, and the dishwasher is running. STC tells you a lot about how well walls will stop that type of sound, since that is what it is designed to measure, but tells you zilch about any other type of isolation.

I do not care about the sound coming out of the room and since no one is playing music outside all I am concerned about is animal kingdom noises and cars / trucks going by so. Now how do a relate STC and DB reduction then If all i care about is outside noise coming in not the noise going out?

if that is correct that means I would need maximum 1db of A and 21db of C in my rooms.

It isn't correct, and you are looking at things from the wrong perspective, which is why you are arriving at such answers.

ok my mistake

What is the acceptable db of noise in a studio? Are you trying for zero?

Like I said above, acceptable noise inside rooms is measured on either the NR or NC scale. Typical for a home studio is roughly NR 25. This is also NOT a measure of decibels!! It is a reference to a noise perception curve, based on C weighting and the Fletcher-Munson curves.

then how do I turn stc in to usable number or is there another number I should be looking aswell in my walls?

Ambient For A fast & slow are both under 30db and meter will not register with my meter

Forget A weighting: it tells you nothing useful about isolation. Stick to C weighting, which more closely represents the way humans perceive loud sounds.

so the A number is useless then?

sounds good would a double wall system with 5/8" drywall on the inside wall and 1/2" durock on the outside wall with 2x4 studs filled with 3 1/2' thick r-13 fibreglass insulation and walls spaced approx 2" apart achieve this?

Assuming that the leaves are on separate studs, then that would work. If they are on the same studs, then probably not.

I do not care about the sound coming out of the room and since no one is playing music outside all I am concerned about is animal kingdom noises and cars / trucks going by so.

It's the same thing. If a wall isolates to 45 dB going out, then it isolates to 45 dB going in too.

Now how do a relate STC and DB reduction then If all i care about is outside noise coming in not the noise going out?

Unfortunately, there's no simple relationship here. That's why Transmission Loss curves are the best way of understanding how a wall performs. Compare that to the actual spectrum of the noise that you need to block, and you can predict how well each wall type would work for you.

then how do I turn stc in to usable number or is there another number I should be looking aswell in my walls?

Unfortunately, there is no "single number" that tells you everything about how a wall isolates. Isolation is different at each frequency, so the only way of understanding what isolation a wall will provide, is by looking at the Transmission Loss graphs. Take a look at these documents, to get an idea of how it works: https://app.box.com/shared/jcaoavdc8g http://archive.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/d ... /ir761.pdf

so the A number is useless then?

No, it's not useless: it's just not much use for measuring loud music or studio isolation! It is useful for other purposes. A-weighting is meant to measure low-level sounds, at the 40 phon level, and is frequently used to specify environmental noise regulations, since that's where it makes sense. It closely matches the Fletcher-Munson 40-phon hearing response curve. C-weighting is more useful for loud sounds, around the 90 phon curve, which is why it is used for measuring studio levels, calibrating studios, and also measuring studio isolation. Studios are often calibrated at 85 dBC and, acoustic tests should also be conducted at 85 dBC, for the same reason. And 85 dBC is also the maximum constant level that you should mix and monitor at. - Stuart -

Great information!