Vertustudio

well, right now it's kind of grey and dull, but in general it doesn't get any better in Sweden :P don't know the guy, is he one of the propellerheads? a :arrow:

I like February in Stockholm. Call me twisted. PowerFX is a sample vendor. They've probably hooked up with Propellerhead at some point. They're a huge sound vendor, historically one of the biggest and best.

The top of a door frame. As you can see, there’s quite a gaping space here. The sheet hanging down on the inside is the material that covers the cellulose insulation between the studs. This can be pulled out with no problem, but that would expose the raw cellulose insulation underneath, so probably best to leave it there or try to trim it while leaving the functional part in place. I reviewed this information: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... door+frame I’m gathering that this space might be filled with some kind of rigid or semi-rigid material at the core, and then bracketed with backer rods over which acoustical sealant is applied. Is it appropriate to use acoustical sealant on a space this wide? Along the side of the door frame there’s a gap of about ¼”. I’m wondering if this space is too small to use backer rods but too big to caulk. Maybe I should just blow foam into it, or caulk one side and then blow foam into the other side (straight through to the caulk barrier) and then seal the space with acoustical sealant. Between the door frames you can see the sheet that covers the cellulose insulation. The current plan is to fill this space with fabric-wrapped rigid foam. I’d super appreciate any and all advice on how to finish off these spaces. I feel that I have an excellent wall here, and I’d hate to blow it by screwing up this step. Thanks! Hope this finds you well,

Vertustudio wrote:

I’d super appreciate any and all advice on how to finish off these spaces. I feel that I have an excellent wall here, and I’d hate to blow it by screwing up this step.

I do know that you can get very large dia backer rod if that helps? here's a sort of relative link http://tundrafoam.com/backer/backer_rod_index.html James

After framing the doors, there were some huge gaps. We inserted backing rods and shot foam up against 'em, then we trimmed the foam and applied SHEETROCK brand acoustical sealant. Industrial-sized tubes cost $5. This door frame top took in about a full tube on each side. The sealant stands up really well. It’s easy to sculpt a layer of it that’s over an inch thick. Foam application gets out of control pretty easily. On the other side of this wall it’s not so bad because the backer rod barrier stops the foam from coming out the other side. The backer rod was pushed in about ½ inch on the other side, to allow space for sealant on that side. After this foam hardened, I took a box cutter and carefully trimmed the excess around both edges, and then I used a paintbrush to clean out stray chunks of foam and drywall dust. This is time consuming. It was a day’s work to trim foam, carve/clean out the areas and tape 'em up, and then apply the sealant, for both sides of two door frames. I shot almost a whole tube of sealant into this space. The backer rod is very soft. It’s easy to ram the sealant tube nozzle right through it so that sealant flows through to get behind it. By the time I was done sealing this particular space, the backer rod was just mush. Trimming all the foam from the edges really helps give you a clean-looking seal. Occasionally the box cutter would bite into the drywall and shave some off, leaving a nice smooth face for the sealant to run up against. This is what it looked like after I pulled the tape. What I learned real fast is, tape both sides and then when you're done sealing a crack, pull the tape off RIGHT AWAY. The wetter the sealant is when you pull the tape, the cleaner your edge will be. On the top-of-door-frame pic here, you can see a piece of mangled backer rod jutting out, forced forward by all the sealant that I pumped in behind it. To me it really didn’t matter where the backer rod ended up, as long as I was certain that I was pumping in all the sealant that the space could possibly take. Trim applied over sealed door frames. I used about eight tubes of sealant over both sides of the two door frames. Mo' Later,

Hey, it all looks good. Not sure if you've looked through the forum for opinions on QuietRock and Quiet Solution products. Take a look here: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 0906#40906 And http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =quietrock Maybe something changed since those posts or maybe you got the stuff dirt cheap. I don't know your situation, just thought I'd post the links for your review. Marc

My entire south wall has the same structure with regard to rock and insulation: QuietRock 525, Type X, cellulose insulation 'mattress' between staggered studs, Type X. However, the control room portion of the south wall has Green Glue between the 525 and Type X sheets, in fact, I used the recommended dose of 3 tubes (that's about $90) per 4X8 sheet. The iso room has none or maybe just a little bit of leftovers from the one case I bought. So, I can make a pretty good assessment of how good Green Glue is because I have this basis of comparison. My conclusion is that Green Glue works great and is a good value. It might even be a better value than QR 525 - it's worth considering trading out QuietRock for Type X/Green Glue if you must choose between one or the other. My recommendation is, if you use Green Glue, don't skimp - go with the three tubes per 4X8. The effect is that panel resonance is significantly dampened, producing a far more 'thuddy' wall. QuietRock. I got mine for $80, and I bought 20 sheets. I don't have a basis of comparison in my studio to assess its effectiveness. South wall has one layer out of three, party wall has two layers out of four, west wall has one layer out of two, and the ceiling and north wall have none. East wall is cinder block. QuietRock 525 has a layer of regular drywall bound to a layer of 'ceramic' infused composite material. It's heavier and harder to cut. I suspect that this '1 sheet of 525 = 7 sheets of Type X' is dubious, especially at low frequencies. Fact is, I don't know. Anyway...if I had to do it again, and bearing in mind that three tubes of Green Glue is about the same price as one sheet of QR 525, I'm not even sure what I'd do because I can't really judge the effectiveness of 525 *in my particular space,* with *my particular issues* regarding sound coming in from the outside. I'd definitely use Green Glue over 525 on ceilings if footfall noise were an issue. I'm so glad I used it in front of the furnace where low frequency hum is the only issue I had left after I put in the cellulose, which takes care of mid-to-high frequencies *easily.* Blown-in cellulose insulation is the bomb. :D One thing for sure: Green Glue works well! Mo' Later,

I'm guessing you meant per sheet cost but could you clarify per sheet or total for 20:

QuietRock. I got mine for $80, and I bought 20 sheets.

AND I'm guessing that

cellulose insulation 'mattress' between staggered studs,

means the insulation is from drywall to drywall with no air airspace? Many of us have come to this forum after we found a link to QuietRock. It's mentioned all over the forum that it's not the most cost effective option and to be avoided. Knightfly, Rod, Sharward and others have posted this info. Green Glue have published STC and TL test results on there materials. I just looked at Quiet Solutions again. The site has changed, at least the complete "sham" comparison charts to STC of regular walls are gone. I can't find any TL test of QuietRock. I don't mean to be offensive with this post BUT see a need of posting for others. Unless I completely missed something the advice of this forum is to avoid QuietRock, it's not cost effective. Please do a search through the forum and you'll find plenty of verification. BTW your build looks real nice. Marc

$80 / Sheet for the QR 525. Doubtless, 525 gets less effective the lower you go in frequency. But adding layers of drywall sacrifices space and costs money to put up. 525 has more mass. Whether it's worth the money or not depends on how much value you place on the actual qualities that QR offers, whatever they may be. There are better ways to spend money than to spend it on 525, I agree. Regarding the cellulose, it's a no-brainer. Direct comparisons with fiberglass are just shocking. Most of the sound that enters nine solid inches of that stuff never comes out the other side. Look back a few pages at the control room with just studs and insulation. Every set of opposing surfaces in the room were different except for the north and south walls, which were both insulated. At this stage, that was one of the nicest sounding spaces I'd ever been in, albeit just a tad on the absorptive side. If I wasn't concerned about soundproofing and equity, I would have just nailed up fabric-wrapped perforated particle board over the studs and called it a day. In retrospect, I wish I would have done just that on the north wall (both rooms), which are backed by cinder block and received only one layer of type X right over the studs and cellulose. This would have settled any treatment issues on that wall, but the fabric costs would have run a bit high. There's enough air between the studs; the insulation is very active. When you pound on the wall beneath the control room window, you can look through from the top and see the insulation dancing around in there, doing its thing. It smokes fiberglass. The only downside I can see here is that this insulation is going to settle much like cereal in a box. If you were totally anal about it, you could wait a while and then drill some small holes near the ceilings and have the insulation guy come back and spray more in there. Doubt I'll be doing that! Happy President's Day!

Last night my wife and I dressed up the window. I applied acoustical sealant under the interior frame gaps. On the top level, I just filled the entire crack with sealant. On the sides and bottom, I applied sealant over backer rod stuffed about ¾” under the frame. I shot one industrial-sized tube of SHEETROCK sealant into this frame. Between the panels is the cloth material that covers the blown-in cellulose. I smeared a layer of sealant over this fabric because there are a number of small holes in it, and the last thing I need is excited cellulose particles drifting up into a sealed window space. The sealant smeared over this fabric should stop those particles from coming up. Whatever gets past it, if anything, will be stopped by the structures that my wife put in there. Here’s a shot of the foam we used to fill the space. It’s designed to be used as acoustical duct liner. It has an excellent, Memory Foam-like sponginess. My wife bought a sheet of these cardboard strips to wrap into the trim packages. On the left, a fabric-wrapped piece of foam. On the right, a piece of foam of the same dimensions, wrapped up with one of these cardboard shims. As you can see, the one with the cardboard is far better. She sprayed adhesive on the fabric and then did the wrapping. My wife glued in the structures using Gorilla Glue (the clear type). Handsome! Gorilla Glue is good stuff. I don’t think I’ll need to worry about any of these falling out. Now I’m dreaming of a nice, quiet and mellow space where I can freely exercise my self loathing for buying all that QuietRock 525 in solitude. Come to think of it, this space almost looks like a big Catholic confessional, with all that dark oak plank and whatnot. All I need is a little screen over that window space and some incense…

Gotta have a bottle of good Italian wine to aid in the spiritual cleansing process my son :) Oh-feelie-me-bonie-bellie-Dominos-Ferbiscos-sellies-bellies-all-his-dominos! Can I get an Amen?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMENN-AH! :twisted:

I've got a question for you... I am just about to start on all the trim work (around doors, floor boards, etc.), and I notice from your pictures how nice yours look! Nice and dark and VERY shiny! How did you do that? Glossy polyurethane? How many coats? Did you use pine boards? What type of stain? Thanks! The place is looking great, congratulations!

Hi, most of that trim is oak that comes stained and sealed from the manufacturer. The window work is pre-finished wood. The doors and most of the custom doorframe work were installed unfinished. I'm staining and polyurethaning these items myself right now. The trim manufacturer supplied the matching stain. I have the first coat (of three) of Minwax high gloss polyurethane done on the entrance doors and trim. It looks great but it took a long time to do because there are so many twists and turns in there. I might stop after two coats since the first coat was put on so thick. It was really cold out when I did that first coat. I noticed that I could get a thicker coat on in the colder temperature... I'm glad I don't have to stain and poly all the trim in the studio - that would take ages.

Vertustudio wrote:

I'm glad I don't have to stain and poly all the trim in the studio - that would take ages.

Yeah, tell me about it! ;) I am getting to old for this stuff anyway! Thanks for the info... The place looks great!

Here's what my panel is going to look like. I'm having it done by Milam Audio in Chicago. All 'Lines' will be 1/4" TRS. 'Speaker' jacks are for connecting amp heads in control to speaker cabs in iso. Mo' Later,

You know, making them panels might be cool but cumbersome and not always cheaper than prefab. Check here for example http://www.americandj.eu/advanced_searc ... ords=18001 Can't beat that costwise.... (sorry for the pic pix, it's not hosted by me)

Window glass installed, comprising two slanted ¼” laminated panes. This was tricky. The first batch of glass was defective; one pane had scratches on it, the other was not cut to spec; both panes had to be reordered, and we didn’t see the scratch on the first pane until after it was installed. We had to take it down and strip the silicone off the rails, and suddenly the build project took on the vibe of a restoration project. We tried to get a perfectly clean install, but alas, a small smudge and a few particles got trapped inside. These are only visible when the light hits the panes a certain way. When I set up these shots, I backlit them with a set of three lights right up against the wall on the other side, pointed along the *length* of the glass; only then did I see the smudge. There are also a couple of pencil-tipped sized defects between the laminations (NOT the surface) on one side, again, barely noticeable. My advice; inspect the glass very carefully before installing it (d’oh). When inspecting your own glass, hit it with artificial light from as many angles as possible before you lock both panes in. This way you’ll stand a better chance of catching all the smudges. Anyway, I’m really happy with this install. It’s clean and you have to be really looking in order to find the imperfections. I’ll have to be cool with this until some enraged rapper throws a mic through the glass, then I can start over. But wait…this is supposed to be a personal studio – no clients. Heh. Well, the way that all the costs are spiraling here, I better start looking for some clients! I’ve been in studios where some piece of molding or something is dangling out between the panes…total Jethro. At least I don’t have to worry about that happening, what with my Gorilla-Glued trim and all…sall good! I gotta laugh. I’m ordering panels and treatments and such over the phone, and discussing this build and so forth, and the guy on the other side of the call will say, “This will turn out OK, but in the future…” And I just interrupt him and say, “There IS no future, man.” Mo’ Later,

nice glass install....just the connector panel and treatments left?

Come to think of it, yea, that’s about it I guess!

very nice work, good pix. thanx

Dang! You do good work! Those windows look fabulous! You say that is "fake" wood, or is it just pre-treated? It looks beautiful dude! Congratulations!

MY CONTRACTOR does good work! My wife and I are doing all the painting and finishing though. That frame is made out of oak that’s been pre-stained and sealed. It’s not manmade stuff. I had to stain a few places on it myself. The trim manufacturer supplies the (oil based) stain, so it’s a perfect match. Thanks for the compliments yo!

This week I’m getting room treatments made and putting them up. Here’s a shot of the iso room. My goal here is to have the vast majority of treatments be easily removable (iso room only). My wife designed this trapeze system that allows 2” panels to be placed anywhere on the ceiling. It’s made from PVC pipe and end caps, drywall anchors, sewn fabric strips, and screw eyes. After this picture was taken, we took everything back down and shortened the fabric strips, so now there’s a 1.5 inch gap between the ceiling and the top of a 2” panel. The big reason why I did this is because I have a low ceiling, and I want to be able to throw up a panel quickly anytime over any overhead mic placed anywhere in the room. I don’t want to be chained to having a permanent absorptive surface across the entire ceiling. Now, I can sling 2X4 panels of 703 (or anything light) easily, anywhere, anytime. The panel you see in this shot is a piece of 703 in a Chameleon Traps bag. These are pretty cool if you can afford ‘em, but I’d never use them in a permanent installation. They just don’t look ‘permanent’ enough. They’re great for slinging around though. $30 per bag is a reasonable price, considering how much this studio gear costs in general. Mo’ Later,

Ceiling cloud. Debra’s been out looking for discount fabrics, and she’s found some beautiful stuff. This material has a kind of grainy texture that really took well to being stretched. $1.99/yd. The only minor problem is, with inexpensive fabrics you’re usually limited on the width. In this case, Debra had to sew two pieces together, which placed a seam in the middle of the 4X8 cloud. Here’s the fabric (good side down) ready to take the frame. Metal rails used for hanging ceiling tiles were framed with lumber. The rails form a nice bed for the four 703 panels. I had to strip an inch off the length and width of each 703 panel to get them to fit in there. I did this with an electric knife (I learned that trick here, thanks!). Debra's no stranger to stretching canvas, but it had been a while, so we reviewed this set of directions: http://studiochalkboard.evansville.edu/p-canvas.html Here we are working out way outward from the center of each side. Doing a frame this size is a two-person gig. We worked across from each other and went around from side to side until all the sides were stapled down and only the corners remained to be folded. Debra gift-wrapped the 703 in muslin, then we dropped it into the frame and coated it with a flame retardant spray. Here it is, drying out. That flame retardant stuff is nasty – kind of greasy and filmy. I ran a bead of fabric cement around the top edge and smeared it in good with a putty knife. That fabric is on there to stay and it won’t slip. We installed the cloud the next morning, on six hooks driven straight through the two layers of type X and right into the joists. I thought I had installed my sconces a little on the low side, but now that this cloud is tilted down toward them, it looks just right. Look how it picks up the light from 'em...nice! The ceiling cloud looks great and its sound absorptive behavior is amazing. Now we only have 25 more frames to get done! :shock: Mo' Later,