Studio Design Help Australia

Hi Guys, My wife is about to embark on some work with a sound engineer and we want to build a mini studio at home as this guy is in the country and it takes some time to get to him. If we have a mini setup at home we can do some stuff and send it up to him. Most of the stuff will be vocals and some virtual instruments in Pro Tools. I have attached a floor plan of the room we would like to use as the studio. My main focus is an area within the room that can be used to record vocals. Let me set the scene a bit. I know nothing about this AT ALL... I'll need all the help I can get. Do I need a vocal booth specifically?? Can I just add some acoustic dampeners to enable vocal recording. I've heard of Traps, I have done some reading of these forums before posting. For post recording editing and adding virtual instruments do I also need to do some acoustic modeling in the room? My budget is tight as tight gets. I'll use second hand gear if I have to, the budget is that tight. Budget is mainly tight cause I'm starting from scratch and I'm outlaying a fair bit of dollars on equipment. This is just to get us started so it doesn't have to be state of the art right now. As time goes on I can add to it and/or purpose build something. This is my house although I really don't want to build anything structural right now as purpose built later on when I get a better budget is my aim. I'd like something modular/removable. Also may sell house to buy one with more land or extra rooms so a purpose built studio can be done. Advice, help, assistance would be great. I really need this spelt out as I am really that clueless with Home recording Studios right now..eg. Materials, Where I can get them (Cheap).. Sorry, but I promise I'm a quick learner and I'll help out with others once I get some experience under my belt. Cheers Willo PLEASE LOOK THROUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD AS THERE HAS BEEN SOME CHANGES SINCE THIS POST. ACTUAL ROOM PICTURES HAVE BEEN ADDED. THANKYOU WILLO

here's one idea. put in a vocal booth. inside-out walls on the 2 new walls. slat resonator along existing walls. overhead put in a cloud with some plastic under the cloth to keep some highs. small carpet on the floor. you want the vox booth to have evenness but not be too live or dead. i'd use a regular solid storm door with double paned window in it. you want some air flow in and out of the booth. a slat resonator wall behind the mix desk. creates the angles along one wall. you'll want some absorption on the back wall - use heavy drapes or moveable absorbers over the windows. maybe some absorption on the vox booth wall opposite the desk. or conceptually, angle the vox booth wall instead. how-to on all this stuff can be found on this site - just search.

gullfo wrote:

here's one idea. put in a vocal booth. inside-out walls on the 2 new walls. slat resonator along existing walls. overhead put in a cloud with some plastic under the cloth to keep some highs. small carpet on the floor. you want the vox booth to have evenness but not be too live or dead. i'd use a regular solid storm door with double paned window in it. you want some air flow in and out of the booth. a slat resonator wall behind the mix desk. creates the angles along one wall. you'll want some absorption on the back wall - use heavy drapes or moveable absorbers over the windows. maybe some absorption on the vox booth wall opposite the desk. or conceptually, angle the vox booth wall instead. how-to on all this stuff can be found on this site - just search.

Hi Gullfo, Thankyou for your reply and design. What is an Inside-Out wall?? Is your design removable/modular or have you designed it as a permanent fixture, fixed to existing structures? I would prefer this preliminary studio to be removable/modular/not fixed as this room doubles as a study etc when not used for vocal recording. Is VOX an abbreviation for Vocal? I should mention that the corner window has Timber Venition (Slat) Blinds, can't spell sorry. There will also be a server rack in this room, not too sure if it will be half height or full height yet. Two reasons, one is to house the Digi 002 the other is I'm in IT and run some services at home that require Rack Mounted gear. Is there a reason angles are good? I see a lot of designs are angled. My wife would like to put a sofa maybe sofa bed along one of the smaller length walls. I saw a shipping container remodeled into a Recording Studio. I'm not too sure but I can't remember too many angles. Initially this doesn't have to be Studio quality. These are some of my thoughts. Thankyou Willo

the drapes are to cut off some of the highs bouncing off the windows behind your monitoring desk. the vocal (vox) booth would be permanent - so you could do without the booth, you probably still want to treat the room to improve overall acoustics - and there are a number of folks who have posted infomation on converting small rooms - just search.

gullfo wrote:

the drapes are to cut off some of the highs bouncing off the windows behind your monitoring desk. the vocal (vox) booth would be permanent - so you could do without the booth, you probably still want to treat the room to improve overall acoustics - and there are a number of folks who have posted infomation on converting small rooms - just search.

Thanks again, What are some of the terms/language used in Recording Studio Design? As I am a greenhorn, I'll definitely miss some good threads not searching using the right text. Does the layout and placement of desks etc (angles) make a difference to the acoustics of the room? What Forum topic would I most likely find those small room make overs? Is there anyone in Metro Melbourne Australia I could sit down with and have a chat? Is there anyone whom may have knowledge of a way to make your design or any other design suggestion modular/removable. I like the idea of the slat wall. Could I use a frame and attach it on like a hanger with rubber to stop any vibrations? Although that's not a huge change and a few screw holes can be painted over I guess. I'd really like a Vox Booth if at all possible. Cheers Willo

Aloha, Here are a couple of links that can help with your questions. Check out the "Acoustics" and "Absorbers" links in left hand column - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html Wall Units - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Also, be sure to read the "stickies" as there is a lot of info there, as well as using the search function to track down threads that may be helpful to your project build and to familiarize yourself with the terms and techniques. Happy reading, Aloha 8)

Thankyou. I'll be square eyed before too long. :) I'll post a proposed setup shortly... Anyone with suggestions in the meantime please feel free. God knows I need the help.

you could also ring up John - he's north of you but readily available on skype... with your layout, you could turn the desk to face the short wall to create symmetry over your mix position. I had thought be putting in the resonator wall you could ange the desk a bit and it would quite be sitting in a corner plus you'd get some treatment in the room. for simplicity sakes, look at hanger some absorbers in the corners and various parts of the room and see if that works. you can alway get more elaborate later...

Hi Guys, After some serious thought on what I want to achieve and the budget I have I've decided not to build a vocal booth. I would like to just treat the room and use a good mic and a filter/screen fitted to the back of the mic stand. They are a retail product I just don't know what they are called. I have rearranged the room and added stuff into the room so you get an idea of the layout I would like. This is what my wife wants, she wants to be able to look outside for inspiration. I am very open to layout positioning etc as if this layout is no good then just tell me and maybe a quick why. I have been pointed in the direction of Auralex Roominator room treatment kits to treat the room. Does anyone have any comments/experience with these kits? Edit:- Does anyone know how to get the sketchup file back under 500kb, mine is 2mb?? Cheers and Thanks Willo

I'd center the mix desk on the wall. this would give you better symmetry and still preserve the view... to reduce the file size - remove large (and perhaps copyrighted) objects - and go to model info -> statistics -> purge used. this should help reduce the size. last case if its still over 500K, use WinZip or WinRAR to reduce it further.

Just out of interest were do you guys get your models for the studio recommendations you are doing? There are some fantastic designs posted here but I can't seem to find the models to put into my sketchup model. I'll post back ASAP with a newer model and some better more structured questions. Cheers Willo Edit:- The little mixer desks, monitors etc..

Hi Willo - here's a good place to start: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... p=c&reps=1 These are in the 3D warehouse on the sketchup home page. If you start from there you'll find all manner of components and models in all sorts of categories, I've juat gone into the musical instrument section to get you started! Hope this helps, Regards, Lou. 8)

P.S. Here's another one! I forgot to mention that if you click on any model, you'll then be taken to the page where you can download it. After that, take a look at the tags at the bottom since they might take you to related models that might be of use. http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... =6&start=0 Cheers, Lou.

Thanks Gulfo, Let's just start again. Please see attached Sketch Up drawing. I don't mind centring the desk, which wall?? I was of the opinion after looking at some of the designs that have been recommended that straight/parallel walls and symmetry wasn't a good thing? So if I centre the desk wouldn’t that in effect creating something that I should be trying to avoid? Some of the walls I have are plaster walls that lead into other rooms within the house and others are backed by a brick wall. I'm not trying to sound proof the studio mixing room at all I am more interested in sound/acoustic treatment so that when I record the vocals they don’t end up sounding like they were recorded in a bathroom. So to confirm, I have steered away from a vocal booth. I don’t mind mounting things on the plaster walls with fixtures like screws/etc as they can be puttied up and painted over with only a little effort. What is a ball park figure for making my own acoustic treatments like the 703 absorbers etc, as Auralex room kits can be had for under AUD $1000-00 from what I have been told. Just checking because I have a story on building my own stuff when a retail version may exist. I once built a dog kennel that I could have brought for $200-00 in a pet store. When I finally finished it cost me almost double that. From what I have read a #703 absorber is made from a hard insulation material called 703. Am I right? Can 703 be brought in Australia? I’m worried about placement of foams, bass traps and absorbers. Mainly because walls are mainly taken up with doors or windows and the corners have either a door or a window that goes almost all the way to the roof. Cheers Guys Willo

Aloha, Perhaps something like this? - DIY Wall Units - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm - Monitors on Stands behind desk angled 30 degrees Aloha 8)

Aloha Kendale, A big thankyou for your excellent design. The level of professionalism and advice is always 1st class. There are a few things I'd like to seek clarification with. I have abandoned the idea of a vocal booth and would just like to treat the room for acoustics not sound proof. My wife will not let me cover the windows, they are the her muse, the outside world inspires her lyrics. So unfortunately I can't cover them (I presume the treatments are covering the window?). On that note I can't remove doors. Yes, this does put me in a uncomfortable position as the room isn't to kind or open to mounting treatments etc. But as Dr. Phil says, if the wifes happy, I am happy. :) We plan to move to a place with more land over the next 3 years and I will ensure there is a room that will be set aside specifically for this but until then this is all I have to work with. Again Kendale a big thankyou. Open to more suggestions. I love the idea of the monitors on stands. I actually thought of mounting them on the walls with brackets up reasonably high above the corner window and the same on the other side. Just another quick one before I go, ideas on costs of making those wall units? I have seen them there and researched them on other sites as well . I'll just cut and paste my previous post:- What is a ball park figure for making my own acoustic treatments like the 703 absorbers etc, as Auralex room kits can be had for under AUD $1000-00 from what I have been told. Just checking because I have a story on building my own stuff when a retail version may exist. I once built a dog kennel that I could have brought for $200-00 in a pet store. When I finally finished it cost me almost double that. From what I have read a #703 absorber is made from a hard insulation material called 703. Am I right? Can 703 be brought in Australia? Thankyou Willo

Aloha,

I have abandoned the idea of a vocal booth and would just like to treat the room for acoustics not sound proof.

The units suggested are for the purpose of "acoustic treatments" rather than "soundproofing." They are based on the wall units designed by John here - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm

My wife will not let me cover the windows, they are the her muse, the outside world inspires her lyrics. So unfortunately I can't cover them (I presume the treatments are covering the window?).

The units are modular in design so they can be set up for recording/mixing, and then taken down and stored during periods of musing and lyric writing.

On that note I can't remove doors.

As best as I can tell from your floor plan, there are no doors that need to be removed.

Yes, this does put me in a uncomfortable position as the room isn't to kind or open to mounting treatments etc. But as Dr. Phil says, if the wifes happy, I am happy.

I agree! :wink: I think we would all do well to do our best to keep our wives happy. :D

I love the idea of the monitors on stands. I actually thought of mounting them on the walls with brackets up reasonably high above the corner window and the same on the other side.

That's great. I'm glad it's a viable option. Be sure avoid a stand that would place the woofer in the exact center of the floor/ceiling measurement to avoid a null position. Also, try to position your monitors angled 30 degrees in from a flat wall which will result in the speaker baffles being perpendicular to the two legs of equilateral triangle comprised of two speaker centers and a point about 10" behind your head.

What is a ball park figure for making my own acoustic treatments like the 703 absorbers etc, as Auralex room kits can be had for under AUD $1000-00 from what I have been told.

Hard to say, as I don't know the cost of materials in your area. Perhaps a PM to John or a search for your fellow country-members and a PM would prove more helpful. You may also want to look into other insulation products like Roxul AFB or Johns Manville to compare prices. (Optimum density for in-wall[unit] rigid insulation is around 2.5 to 3 PCF.)

Can 703 be brought in Australia?

Here is a link to the guys at FM Insulation who have an extensive range of Rockwool & Fibreglass products for those on the east coast of Oz. http://fminsulation.com.au/cms/ Don't forget your gloves and mask, Itchy! Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Hey Kendale, Edit:- By the way, you had me at Aloha. :) Mate, I am so sorry... I have just shown my gorgeous wife the design. She is very reluctant to cover the windows.. Do you see any other way around this? I know this is a forum and you must post a thousand replies a day, but if you could see your way to assist I'd be grateful. :oops: Now a couple of questions about the design you did do in the event this is my best option and I can rationalize this with my better half.. :lol: Are the only treatments along the top wall and surrounds? The translucent nature of the jpg is tricking me into thinking there is some treatment all around the walls. If the units are modular, are they attached at all to walls or are they free standing? I take it I modify the side wall units into a more angled shape rather than the box design on Johns page. You say do a search for my country members is there a search function that will allow me to search on the location field in members profiles? Cheers Willo

Aloha,

Mate, I am so sorry...I have just shown my gorgeous wife the design. She is very reluctant to cover the windows.. Do you see any other way around this? I know this is a forum and you must post a thousand replies a day, but if you could see your way to assist I'd be grateful.

No worries! We'll keep trying until we find something that works for both of you. :wink:

Now a couple of questions about the design you did do in the event this is my best option and I can rationalize this with my better half. Are the only treatments along the top wall and surrounds? The translucent nature of the jpg is tricking me into thinking there is some treatment all around the walls. If the units are modular, are they attached at all to walls or are they free standing? I take it I modify the side wall units into a more angled shape rather than the box design on Johns page.

Sorry about that. The treatments do line the walls, and stand floor to ceiling - or at least to a couple of feet above your head. (I went to about 7 feet tall - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4091) Here's another look...(you could also build them so they stack, which helps to make them somewhat portable/mobile.)

You say do a search for my country members is there a search function that will allow me to search on the location field in members profiles?

Try clicking on the "Memberlist" at the top of the page and you should find the info you're looking for. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

So the brown on all of the walls apart from the obvious absorbers are treatments of some sort as well?

kendale wrote:

No worries! We'll keep trying until we find something that works for both of you. :wink:

THANKYOU! :oops:

Aloha, The brown-faced units on the left and right of the mix position are slat absorbers. Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale, See attached do I have it correct? If I go ahead with this design, I would add a rear wall absorber as well. When you say modular are you saying they aren't actually attached to the wall, they are a self contained unit? That said do they just sit on the floor? If that is the case I'd have to put some type of substance on the underside to avoid rattles etc??? Are you also saying that I can build two half height ones and put one on top of the other?? That sounds good. Do you see another design possible in this room?? I really hope there is. :) Cheers and Regards Willo

Aloha,

See attached do I have it correct?

You are correct, sir.

If I go ahead with this design, I would add a rear wall absorber as well.

Yes, I would agree with adding absorbers there.

When you say modular are you saying they aren't actually attached to the wall, they are a self contained unit? That said do they just sit on the floor? If that is the case I'd have to put some type of substance on the underside to avoid rattles etc???

As with any tall bookshelf, for safety's sake, it may not be a bad idea to use a couple of 'L' brackets or screws to attach them to the wall to avoid having them falling over if bumped or in the event of an earthquake. You could use some heavy duty felt pads to cushion the bottoms of each unit.

Are you also saying that I can build two half height ones and put one on top of the other?? That sounds good.

Yes, you could. I did. :wink: If you would like to see an example click here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=45 (about halfway down the page and onto the next couple of pages)

Do you see another design possible in this room?? I really hope there is.

While I don't know if this may be as effective as the first one, here is another approach you could consider. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale, Thanks for all your help. I must say WOW! Your studio, level of workmanship and skill is excellent. I love it. I hope some of your woodworking skill rubs off on me. I have redone my Sketchup file to reflect the changes (I stuffed the outside up but I don't thing it matters in the scheme of things) . The front and rear are absorbers and the side are slat resonators/absorbers. In my last post I asked about another design. I was wondering more along the lines of positioning. Do you see the room setup in any other position?? The original one you did is growing on me though. Just checking everything twice. :) Could you also assist me to understand your thought processes with the vocal booth. I see one in your designs. I'm not sure I'll actually include one anymore, so I'm just wondering what your thoughts on that are? Also seeing as how I'm not sure about one, Vocal work will be done pretty much where the mic is. Should I put some other treatments on the two smaller walls either side of the lounge seat?? What type? Once again your help has been invaluable. Cheers Willo BTW. I may need to ask you how to build the stuff I see you are a gun at it, I've seen the thread with the drawings of them but the actual build process has me stumped.

Aloha, Here's another idea: - Scratch vocal booth - Slat absorbers left/right of mix position - Absorber panels on remaining wall surfaces Thoughts? Aloha 8)