Floating floor over basement concrete. (Artifact Recording)

Yeah, the tee nuts are what I drew in the last pic. The two smaller pieces of wood on either side are "nailers" that would nail into the joist. Reason being that if you drill holes in the joist itself, it will change the span that's possible with that size lumber by weakening the joist. Using "nailers" on each side would still center the load but not weaken the joist. An alternative might be to alternate sides every few feet to cut down on parts count, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. That price is hard to beat for the levelers - you could probably just glue them onto your pucks and be set... Steve

Here's a pic of the part number S&W gave... Each piece has a max load of 250 lbs.

Steve, What if, in place of the nailers, I were to place a 6" piece of flat steel bar on each side and screwed it in? Would this give ample support where all the drilling is? Or perhaps even those metal pieces they use for rafters that attach them together? You just hammer them on, and maybe add a screw or two to keep them in place. Any thoughts or theories as to if something like this might work? By the way, one of my clients has access to a welder. So this could be a possibility still. May have to do some time trading... :D Thanks, Aaron

Steve, Another quickie on ceiling/wall stuff. I've been once again browsing through different/new postings on acoustical treatments, etc. I think I've come to the conclusion that the main wall around the control room will be Frame w/ Roxul and 2 layers of Gypsum. The inner walls/angled walls (soffits, etc.), these will all be used for absorbing/bass trapping, etc. The inner walls will consist of baffles/insulation, etc and for 2 mix, the front walls will probably have cedar panels or tongue & groove or something of the sort. For 5.1, have panels that can be hung on the front walls for absorption. The wall to ceiling issue still has me baffled??????? Looking at these other threads...perhaps bring the walls just below the joists, say 1/4 or 1/2". Layer the walls w/ 2 layers of Gypsum. Ok, place RC on ceiling joists, and 2 layers of Gypsum. Now for the angles in the ceiling, create a so called false ceiling. I can use smaller framing probably, use some more insulation or suspend some very short panels. Use a fabric or burlap or something to cover it all up, w/ some nice trim to help hold the fabric. Hmmm...will this possibly work out? I'm in the full swing of things, and I'm probably only a couple weeks away, if that from getting ready to frame walls. The floor is coming along quickly. If I can figure out everything on this leveling, and get the leveling mounts figured out, I hope to have the floor done by next weekend. Thanks, Aaron

Hey eveyone, I've posted the latest pix on the floor framing, etc... http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8912#8911

Hey Steve, I know you've been busy, but if you get a chance to look, I've posted a lot of questions the last few posts, that I could use some feedback on. I'm hoping to start leveling this floor by the weekend. Thanks, Aaron

Hey Aaron, I should be back among the living in about 7-8 hours; it would help me timewise if you could do a cut and paste of all your Q's into one NEW post, since I have probably a dozen or more things to answer. If you could do that for me, I'd really appreciate it... Steve

Hey Steve, I just copied & pasted what was in the other posts I made: What if, in place of the nailers, I were to place a 6" piece of flat steel bar on each side and screwed it in? Would this give ample support where all the drilling is? Or perhaps even those metal pieces they use for rafters that attach them together? You just hammer them on, and maybe add a screw or two to keep them in place. Another quickie on ceiling/wall stuff. I've been once again browsing through different/new postings on acoustical treatments, etc. I think I've come to the conclusion that the main wall around the control room will be Frame w/ Roxul and 2 layers of Gypsum. The inner walls/angled walls (soffits, etc.), these will all be used for absorbing/bass trapping, etc. The inner walls will consist of baffles/insulation, etc and for 2 mix, the front walls will probably have cedar panels or tongue & groove or something of the sort. For 5.1, have panels that can be hung on the front walls for absorption. The wall to ceiling issue still has me baffled??????? Looking at these other threads...perhaps bring the walls just below the joists, say 1/4 or 1/2". Layer the walls w/ 2 layers of Gypsum. Ok, place RC on ceiling joists, and 2 layers of Gypsum. Now for the angles in the ceiling, create a so called false ceiling. I can use smaller framing probably, use some more insulation or suspend some very short panels. Use a fabric or burlap or something to cover it all up, w/ some nice trim to help hold the fabric. I'm attaching a drawing of what I'm referring to on the flat steel along the side of the 2x4 w/ the Tee Nuts, bolts, etc...

"What if, in place of the nailers, I were to place a 6" piece of flat steel bar on each side and screwed it in? Would this give ample support where all the drilling is?" - Do you mean to use the steel as a "splint" to strengthen the joist so you can drill the joist and install T nuts in the joist itself? It's not clear with just the side view - I'll work on a drawing tonite for one way to solve your ceiling problem - got too much outside work piling up around here to spend much more of it indoors... Steve

Do you mean to use the steel as a "splint" to strengthen the joist so you can drill the joist and install T nuts in the joist itself?

Exactly what I meant. I was contemplating ideas with a friend yesterday, and because of the height, I may just keep it simple and cheap. Go back to the idea of shimming it up. Since the one corner is down almost 3", it won't take much to slap an extra piece of wood under the frame. There will be area's though that I may have to use bolts because of tight area's like where the conduits are, etc. but I think I'm making it out to be more than it is. We are probably going to level it this weekend. I have to tie all the pieces together yet, and finish putting in some stringers, but it's almost there. Thanks, Aaron [/quote]

I don't see why the splint idea wouldn't work - but so would the thick shims, its not like you're gonna take up the floor and adjust things later. BTW, don't forget your perimeter isolation board (if this isn't clear, I'll be glad to explain)... Steve

I believe you mentioned something about it before. In this case, I'm 4 1/2" away from the concrete block all the way around (or 2 sides anyway). On the "Perimeter Board", you're referring to just taking some 703 and attaching it around the outside of the floor framing. Correct? Or is there more to it? Thanks. Aaron

Right - the main function of the "perimeter board" is to keep a floated floor from shifting enough to contact the walls and "short out". Not sure, but I think it's more important when floating a concrete floor, since wood construction would be easier to keep from accidental contact - 703 would be too porous to also act as a seal though - so if you need sealing, you'd be better using something like homosote/celotex and caulking well... Steve

I think I'll be ok in this situation. If this room were to shift 4 inches, I'd have some other serious problems other than a little shorting out. But it still wouldn't hurt I suppose. Let me ask this...Any suggestions on keeping the insulation in the metal studs on the outside wall? It'll be exposed all the way around. Thanks. Aaron

Which type of insulation?

Roxul AFB. 3" 24" centers.

While I'm trying to figure out where you would want a wall frame with no wallboard on it, one way of fastening the batts would be chicken wire :lol: Yes, I'm kidding - Actually, you might buy a bag of nylon tie wraps (like Panduit, for one) punch small holes thru the studs, and try threading the tie wraps thru the batts and holes. top, middle and bottom of each batt (if they're 4 foot) should be enough, but if they're too heavy maybe 4 per side? So, what are you doing with a steel stud wall frame if there's no wallboard on it? Enquiring minds want to know... Steve

I'll repost this picture from page 2... And add a new 3D one.

Hello everyone, Well, I've got the entire floor assembled, and leveled over the weekend. It looks great. I ended up using wood blocks, custom cut at each point, with the rubber on the bottom. (and there went my ceiling height! :cry: ) Let me ask this... any problems w/ using Liquid Nails to secure it all? That is, securing the blocks... And what about the subfloor? Should I use any on that? Any issues with this? Now I just need to finish running the electrical conduit, and the low voltage conduits. Prep it to put in the insulation, insulate it, and cover it. And I'll be done with the floor!!! :D The hard part is done.

The liquid nails approach should be fine - using it between subfloor and joists will make the entire floor act as a unit, lowering the resonant frequency (good thing) and should eliminate squeaks (screws, not nails, right?) Where are your low voltage conduits going in relation to those beautifully swept runs in the pic?

Hey Steve, Combination of both screws and nails unfortunately. The main supports of the framing I used nails. I feel more comfortable with nails supporting the weight than a few screws, but I did a lot of screwing too. Including my middle finger a couple weeks ago, and my thumb over the weekend. That phillips head on a drill puncturing your hand doesn't feel good... The subfloor will be screwed down. No nails there. The low voltage wiring are on the other side. Imagine sitting at the console. The electrical conduit on your left, the low voltage on your right. No parallel runs on it. I'll post a drawing of the floor framing sometime today. Boy did I loose some head room or what when I leveled this floor. Currently where the beam is, from the top of frame to the bottom of the beam, it's 82". And I still have 2 layers of 3/4" subfloor and hardwood floor to go. Then frame around the beam to cover it up. I guess I'll have to put up a head bumber for those tall clients. Thanks Steve, Aaron

Here's the floor framing w/ conduits... I don't know how John pasted the pic from Adobe, so I'll have to attach the pdf file again.

Hmmm..BTW, Any other ideas on the insulation in the walls to keep it from falling back? I saw you posted the tie wrap idea. Would a sheet of plastic on the back side help (at least along the block side)??

The plastic might work, but I'd be concerned that it either stretch or tear out over time. Maybe some 1x3 "stringers" horizontally every 24", screwed to the steel studs on the back side?

That just gave me an idea. Maybe I could use this hat channel that someone gave me. Just run it along the backside, screwed in. That should hold it. I think I've found my solution, and use of free materials. :D Thanks. Well, I just went and picked up the insulation for the floor. My goal is to get all these supports fastened w/ the Liquid Nails, finish the conduits, finish the last few stringers and supports, insulate and cover w/ the subfloor. Hope to have this all done by the end of the weekend. Then it's on to the framing of walls!!! And I'll have lot's more questions to ask. :) Thanks again, Aaron