Getting started finnaly on THE METH LAB

Ok you guys have seen me hanging around trying to get my bedroom sounding good for mixing (it sounds way better now thank you all). Now Im ready for the big guns!!! Our practice pad is way out in the sticks of Texas. Isolation is only a concern for any cows in the nieghborhood (they actually think we rock). However I want to get one room in the pad isolated to ballpark 40-45 STL. Im just getting started in sketchup so forgive my drawing it is pretty close and is exactly to scale. In my pic I want to isolate the green room from the red room. The problem is the celing of this building. This is a big metal building That has 8' framed walls with insulation.and drywall installed very poor construction. The metal roof slopes starting at 8' on the low side up to about 9'?" on the other.There is NO CIELING anywhere! Only Insulation with plastic backing facing in the room hung on wire attached to the metal above. Yes you can see over the wall into the green room when the metal beams are not in the way. This was an unfinished metal building that was given up on and handed over to us kids 10 years ago. Someone knew someone, who knew someone, who could hang drywall so we finished it up enough to practice and drink beer and impress chicks. We didnt even tape or mud or paint. The very (open) construction :) with soft celings and concret floor actually sounds really good. All the lows go right out the unfinnished or sealed walls and ceiling and out and over the wall on the 9' side! Yes you can see daylight on that side, and birds nests, and yes it has some leaks when it rains. We also have rats being the only building within 10 miles in an empty pasture. We call it the Meth-lab because thats what it looks like. It looks abandon and we keep it that way to ward off evil doers who may want to steal our amps. So to somewhat isolate the green room from the red let me make sure I have all my ducks in a row 1. Take 10 sicks of plactic explosives and..................just kidding 1. Strip the dry wall in the green room and on the red side. 2. Asses the damage, then caulk and seal the frame. 3. Add ceiling joists over the green room. 4. Applie 5/8 drywall to inside of green room's wall facing the red room caulk everything. 5. Add a layer of beef between studs with the dry wall I remove and caulk. 6. Overstuff with unfaced batts of pink stuff all around green room. 7. Add 5/8" drywall to the red room side and caulk. Add 5/8" to the other three walls within the green room caulk. 8. Add RC to the ceiling joist and pinkstuff above that. Question #1 The ceiling area I would like to have a layer of plastic sheating on top of the fiberglass Im going to instal to protect this room from any rain leaks. However I think I will have a leaf problem. Here are the layers starting from the outside roof in......... it would be: Metal- Fiberglass- plastic face on that fiberglass- (MY) plastic sheet - (MY) pink stuff - 2 layers of drywall. Check my work and let me know if I have a problem with the 2 layers of plastic facing each other? 9. 5/8" drywall on the RC ceiling caulk, Tape and mud, sand all around. 10. 1 more layer of 5/8' drywall all around except on one of the partion leafs, where I would put a layer of 3/8 to make the 2 sides a little differnt. 11. Caulk all around again. Mud sand paint. 12. Seal the door using the 1" step over or fall down method. Question #2 Do you caulk around the bottom frame plate where the 2X4 meets the concrete? Quetion #3 Will I have any problems with the blue room leakage from the red room?? Do I need to beef up the wall on the red side and/or green side of that blue room? No I wont be doing a floating floor or stagerd studs. All floors share the same concrete slab. I know you all would knock the whole building down and start over, we do plan on fixing the leaks with this build but we dont have the money or resources for a total remodel so id just like to know if my plan is ok as is? Sherwood, I think my profile should still be ok? PS The Methlab will be booking clients in a few months. If you would like a quality digital recording and dont mind the smells and sounds of nature give me a call! If you are alergic to rodents you may want to try someone else. Thanks in advance guys.

While your at it I got this on another forum....... Tip #2: If using a conventional 2x4 wall (no decoupling, no double studs, just drywall screwed to studs), use wood furring strips perpendicular to the studs. If you have 16" on-center studs, put the strips 24" on-center, if you have 24" on-center studs, put them 16" on-center. This isn't documented anywhere as far as i know, but it's worth the following: -lowers resonance a bit -improves performance at resonance by a cuople dB -improves performance above resonance by several dB I would estimate that this is at least as effective as adding a third layer of drywall to a normal drywall-stud-drywall conventional wall. Although i konw it is the recommendation of this forum in the FAQ, just lobbing drywall onto a wall isn't going to get you far, and drywall isn't that cheap unless you're installing it yourself. Put 8 layers per side, that'll get you somewhere. just plain 1x3 wood furring strips of the bunkiest kind. It does alot for a wall in combinatoin with VE damping, long story. This is more useful with 16" OC studs and 24" OC furring strips than 24" OC studs and 16" OC strips. net cost: something like $1.75-$2 per 8' long strip, or ~ 15 cents/square foot. What are furring strips??

carpwftx wrote:

What are furring strips??

Just thin strips of wood (probably 1x2s). They can be made fairly cheaply because they "finger join" smaller pieces of wood that would otherwise be scrap wood. I think the gain you'd see by doing this is not that magical. Furing strips do two things: 1) stiffen the wall by keeping the studs from moving (left and right) and 2) since they would move the drywall out about 3/4" from the current studs, you get more "air" in your mass-air-mass equation. The advantage of going from 16 OC studs to 24 OC furring strips is that the area of drywall supported between screws is bigger. As you know, a bass drum is bigger than a snare and it has a lower fundamental frequency. Therefore, your completed wall would have a lower resonance than it would on 16 OC studs. As to the rest of your questions, I don't have a sketchup viewer anymore so I can't comment. I would guess that your first task would be to seal the building from the weather no matter what you end up doing to the inside. I don't know if plastic sheeting would cut it though. As to the corrugated roof, you might want to consider some sort of spray on stuff (either inside or outside) for insulation (from hot/cold) and to dampen the "drum head" effect of big flat sheets of metal. It would be better IMHO to keep it from making the noise than to try and isolate it from your room after the fact. len

you are pretty much wasting your time to use wood furring strips instead of RC. for the same reason you should not use hat channel or Z channel in place of RC. if you are going to do all that extra work, just use the right materials in the first place.

Don't use firring strips to strengthen the studs and connect them together, that's what stringers between the 2 X 4's are for. Firring strips are pretty much good for one thing; if you want to put drywall up against a concrete wall and don't have a lot of floor space to put full 2 X 4's. They don't decouple anything. And plus, unless you use the metal ones, good luck finding enough good ones to use. Usually the lumber yard's stock of the wood firring strips is trash. Either way you're wasting your money.

Carpwftx, Curuious question... where did you get that info? Could you post a link? I agree with previous posts, furring strips are not much good at all especially for this intended use, but I can't help but think they will add just a small amount more of isolation due to increasing the air in between masses. Not enough to warrant using them, though. Furring strips do have many uses though besides concrete walls. In 2x4 walls when 4" duct for dryer, bath or kitchen vents (air or drain vent pipe) is placed inside the wall, furring strips (like in the walls in these areas in my house) have been put adjacent to every 2x4 in order to make the cavity 4" wide not 3 1/2" wide. Although current code for (at least) bathroom walls is now 2x6 studs. Also Rod suggests using them in a few places in his book around various obsticles within a studio basement build. Marc

Well of course there are more uses than what I described. :) I'm actually using them in my door jambs to help seal the doors as they close. The face of the door closes against the firring strips which I stuck closed cell foam weather stripping to. That was a bit of a brainstorm in the store though. I was just looking for something small that would get the job done and I saw these 1 X 2's that would work great. The only problem was it took me 20 minutes to fine 15 good ones. Most of them are such junk.

Hey guys, Yeah Len we have decided to do just what you suggested. We are all older now its time we do it right. All the walls are coming down to bare metal and a spray insulation will cover the entire inside of the building. It drys up hard closed cell foam. I must say I will miss the little field mice, but not the rats...........one of them bastards ate a hole through a vintage Marshall speaker. I had to send it to the UK to be re-coned. Well at least he has good taste. So when I get the new control room going I will try to tackle a staggerd studd wall. (when Ive had too many Budwiesers chicks say Im a staggering studd :D ) Hey Guitardad, I found the link on this forum. I was reading a post where someone posted 13 do's of acoustics. Someone responded to him with this link, to a guy who had 20 do's for good acoustics. I didnt pay attention what website it was but it was another message board of some kind. I only go here for info

Hey Guitardad, I found the link on this forum. I was reading a post where someone posted 13 do's of acoustics. Someone responded to him with this link, to a guy who had 20 do's for good acoustics. I didnt pay attention what website it was but it was another message board of some kind. I only go here for info

In the stickies somewheres, I think it's suggested to provide a link to info we are copying into a post. Other than supplying the source and author of info, I've just figured out another good reason to provide the link. In one of my posts I copied some info/statements, did not post the link and now I can't find where the info from. :x Maybe I'm to anal about some things. :oops: Marc

As seen from the post called Staggard studd walls Master builder Keith wrote........ Please (1) survive your yet-to-be-identified virul infection, (2) maintain your great sense of humor, and (3) take pictures of the clean-up, before and after!! Alright guys, We did pretty good in Denison TX last night. Sold a bunch of T-shirts so I went and bought the roof sealent and a butt-load of Great-stuff foam this morning. I went out to the studio afterwords to check it out in the daylight. Man it really shed some light on the situation (pun intended). Honestly I cant remember the last time I was there during the daylight hours. I walked around the whole building staring at the walls as if I knew what to look for. Then I climbed on top of my Suburban and onto the roof! Man it didnt look bad at all! I know leaks can be small but I honestly think our water and rodent problems are coming from the easly seen sources. Correction to the above plan to spray the whole thing with expanding foam. We decided to just treat the problem areas with GREATSTUFF FOAM ........translation $$$. Our band (Carp) is soon to be endorced by GREAT STUFF! It is a requirment over the next few weeks that every band member bring a can to practice. I know you all want to see the horrible before clean up pictures, I will take them, but all joking aside.......it was hard enough for me just to walk around today and not get discuraged about it. Your going to see it and say............WHAT THE HELL IS THIS GUY THINKING???? Please even if you KNOW there is no hope, dont tell me. I have been shoppig the idea of moving all together and it just isnt going to happen, I have asked to use another studio to track our drums this summer and that aint going to happen either. No way in hell are we doing it at my house, so no matter what we are recording our 3rd album at The Methlab. Ive recorded there in the condition it is in now and done just fine......Im shooting for a little more isolation when I track my drummer, a cleaner work enviroment and I have a plan that will free up some room for us and the band we share the pad with. I promise If I dont get discouraged our CD is gonna rock, and yall are gonna have some fun listening to my story and looking at pics! Hopefully you will see a cheap loophole in my plan. I will take some pics this saturday of the deconstruct and clean up phase. I down loaded the Googlescetchup Free. I will try to make a scale model after I get all the measurments.

I know it's a bit of a drive for you, but you are welcome to use my studio to record drums (or whatever) any time you like. Bring a can of coffee and we'll call it even. len

Thanks Len for the offer. We do have alternitive places to record its just that we have a ton of material to record, we all have good day jobs and we want to take our time doing it. Plus I love producing and I hate draging all my gear to alternative locations. That sure is cool of you to offer though. Next time im through Big Spring Id love to check out your rig! Stay tuned I already have a question about my build. You should get that Googlesketchup free from the design board. I will be showing some diagrams of my problem areas pretty soon.

Did some clean up and demolition today with a few band members. I even took a few before pictures. I will post them when I get them developed. We didnt contract and fungus but I do feel light headed. Today is the only day it rained in north TX so we couldnt do a whole lot. We did manage to take out the trash. We took 4 pick-up loads of bottles cans and a couch to the city dump. I got my truck stuck in the mud at the dump. A big burly guy in a tractor and his buddies had a field day making fun of us. They got a good laugh at our hair, clothes and tattoos as well. They pretty much new we couldnt defend ourselves because............. A. We were stuck B. They had big sticks and shovles to bash us with C. All of them were in that movie "Deliverence" and we wanted to keep our pants on. Plus they WORKED at the dump! They pulled us out of the mud though and called us jackass's. BUT.............Later today we went to a little hamburger joint to eat and guess who took lunch at the same time?? Yep our buddies in Deliverence. There was a REALLY REALLY hot college student waitress working and she took their order first. They said the typical things red-necks tend to say to a hot waitess, "Girl if you were on the menue Id have all I could eat!" She laughed and shrugged it off. She came to our table seated right next to them, and said the magic words....... "Hey......are you guys in a band!!!????" The conversation lead to her coming to see us next week and all that "check out our website" buisness... We are not rockstars by a longshot but today we were as close as the Wichita Falls TX Sanitation Department ever sat to one! Revenge is sweet!

Question 1 Is there a rule of thumb for how many screws are used in drywall? Would the pattern be a line across the top and bottom and one line down the middle of each sheet? Question 2: When I hang a ceiling joist in a 2x4 metal bracket should I use some sort of dampening material in each bracket? Question 3: Do fire blocks raise the resonant frequency in a standered 2x4 wall? Im under the impression the more air the better so I should lose the fire blocks to gain more air right?? Question 4: When useing rubber in decoupling, if weight is not a concern is it ok to use open cell material? Question 5: I want to run lines through PVC though a standered wall, but we have to access them frequently, making a bunch of twists and turns will make that a little difficult. Is there a keen way to rig something up for that problem?

Question 1 Is there a rule of thumb for how many screws are used in drywall? Would the pattern be a line across the top and bottom and one line down the middle of each sheet?

Please see: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=20003

Question 2: When I hang a ceiling joist in a 2x4 metal bracket should I use some sort of dampening material in each bracket?

See previous link AND as it was put to me when I asked about 2x4 ceiling joists... "WTF span are you planning to use a 2x4 ceiling joist for" 2x4 span is only good up till 5' or something.

Question 3: Do fire blocks raise the resonant frequency in a standered 2x4 wall? Im under the impression the more air the better so I should lose the fire blocks to gain more air right??

Lose fire blocking? Anything making the space smaller would rasie resonant frequency. Fire blocks (by most code) are required in walls 8' or higher. You can use drywall as a fireblock as described in Rods book... and his methods caps the entire space between double walls. Safety 1st IMO and should be thought of especially with the type of parties/band rehearsals you may be having???? :D

Question 4: When useing rubber in decoupling, if weight is not a concern is it ok to use open cell material?

There is a material Kinghfly suggested, it's available from Home Depot.... but I can't find the darn thread.... maybe it was somewhere in Sharwards thread.

Question 5: I want to run lines through PVC though a standered wall, but we have to access them frequently, making a bunch of twists and turns will make that a little difficult. Is there a keen way to rig something up for that problem?

Why don't you rig it up right in the 1st place... or only other I can think of is to have electrical fish tape on hand... but I wouldn't go for pulling cables again and again through PVC as it may kill the cable's after a while. That is unless your using life time warranty and no hassel return/exchange (without receipt at any store) Monster Cables. But then still the trip to get a new one would be a pain. Why no rig it up correct in the 1st place? Wow man, parts of your thread are reminding me of my good old days, when I was just a guitar player and not a dad or husband. I use to live on the road and in many "band houses" for years ... imagine if you band all lived together 24/7... I won't go into the details of my memories. AND a gentle reminder... have you read all the reference section? Marc

Kinghtfly wrote Place the first layer, using half-schedule fastening (screws twice as far apart as normal) - Ok so whats normal? I didnt get anything on that link for bracket dampening, but I saw some pictures yesterday where someone did put some thing in the bracket. So I will take that as a YES About the 2x4 joists...........man I didnt think about that?? :( The room is only 11x9, I can do 10"-12" on center. I already have the lumber and its probably gonna sound like crap anyway so if it caves in on me...I probably deserve it. So it deos raise the frequency! See Im getting this stuff! :D Lets see, delapitated metal building that leaks, at least 5000 watts of power,(my Marshall goes to 11) gas, alchohal, spray paint, electric space heaters, 5 cig smokers WHO NEEDS FIRE BLOCKS????????? 8) I have a whole butt load of rubber computer mouse pads from work! I wonder if they would be good to cut up for use on door seals or decoupling? Wait...............are they fire proof? :shock: Yeah dude I guess I will rig up the cables correctly. I will just buy a snake and tell the guys it never leaves the building. Dang why cant you have a cake and eat it too??? Wow man, parts of your thread are reminding me of my good old days, when I was just a guitar player and not a dad or husband. I use to live on the road and in many "band houses" for years ... imagine if you band all lived together 24/7... I won't go into the details of my memories. Im a guitar player/singer/producer/Dad/Husband/9-5 jobber and now a very poor excuse for a carpenter..........But when I retire, I want to be just like Len-morgan or Sharward! Thoes guys are the Donald Trump's of studio construction. You can bet your sweet @ss next time im in Big Spring TX Im laying down some tracks! ....and to your last question- Yes sir.......but I listen to rock music at high volume so I forget some stuff along the way

I didnt get anything on that link for bracket dampening

From that link by Knighfly

Caulking isn't needed at all until after you have the first layer up. There's no need to caulk the frame, all it's doing is supporting the drywall which is your "barrier" -

The bracket in your case (if I'm understanding you correctly that your going to hang the joist from a bracket on a side wall) would be part of the frame. Guess I should have been more specific... who knows maybe dampening the bracket would help, maybe I'm wrong... but for you why waste the time and money if your willing to build something that may cave in on you anyways :D Previously, I did not understand span and live/dead loads either. If you place the joists accross the 9' span they should be 2x6 minimum. Using on center spacing other than 16" or 24" means fitting standard insulation in and hanging 8'x4' sheets of drywall will be difficult. Seeing as you're not getting a permit and since you are a dad: Here is an online span calculator http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/cal ... cstyle.asp Good Luck Marc

Man your probably right. I thought I could cut some corners. As it turns out my plan isnt going to work anyway. I mis-read how the building was constructed and needless to say Im really in a mess now. I think Im back to the ol drawing board. Im wondering if a room can even be built in this place.......making it a good isolated room is becoming the second agenda now. Thanks for the help anyway........it will probably be a while before I have an update on this mess im in.

Go to the USG website - follow the links here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1168 after you download the gypsum construction manual, do a search on "schedule" - it will tell you the "schedule" of fasteners for different conditions, including 2-layer walls. (I'd tell you what it is, but then you'd miss out on a TON of other useful stuff :wink: ) Don't give up on your space - if nothing else, a .22 revolver with some CCI "blue-cap" bird shot works wonders for "rat patrol" - it'll dust any rat smaller than a nutria at anywhere from 12-30 feet, one shot; and it won't even make a dent in most metal siding, and from about 10 feet out you won't even be able to tell where the shot went if there's plywood or gyp behind for a backstop... Check out the span tables already posted, figure out how large your space inside will be, and we'll help you figure out a SURVIVABLE way to do this. That's the whole point - besides, how'r ya gonna enjoy the attentions of those groupies if yer FLAT??!? It ain't ALL rocket science, just parts of it. So post a few pix, read some more of the REFERENCE section, and let's kick some ass... Steve

It ain't ALL rocket science, just parts of it. So post a few pix, read some more of the REFERENCE section, and let's kick some ass...

Am I the only one who thinks this should be Steve's new signature? :lol:

Heheheheh buckshots for Rats huh?? :lol: I actually think we are doing pretty good on the rat war now. Part of this build was to give me a control room, but the persuation for all the others involved was to make the place a little more tolerable for everyone. So the whole place smells like mothballs now, wich was better than the smell of old green shag carpet soaked in beer and God only knows what else. We have done a bunch of repair to the metalwork, silicone and expanding foam and even some freaking duct tape! I found this super sized duct tape for metal flashings and gutter fix its awesome for interior metal fix!! The roof coat will go up this weekend if it gets warm enough to apply it. The only problem is this little room im fixing up. I (THINK) I have a plan after I slept on it though. Any of you guys ever find that there is a fine line between decoupling and safty??? Too bad walls dont go up like leggos, you could keep taking them apart till you get it right :wink:

Are you gonna post some pics of the current Meth Lab :?: Got to admit I am completely curious for visual on the condition of this building. :shock: Plus pics may help the forum members understand your (and even point out more) obsticles. Previously I gave you an incomplete answer on:

Question 4: When useing rubber in decoupling, if weight is not a concern is it ok to use open cell material? There is a material Kinghfly suggested, it's available from Home Depot.... but I can't find the darn thread.... maybe it was somewhere in Sharwards thread.

Not being able to find the info was bothering me (becuase I need the material). Re-reading your question I'm really not sure for what part of the construction you were talking about , only guessed it would be under a wall AND figured you're trying to sub a material for the rubber. :? BUT if it's for under a sole plate of a wall 2 choices are "sill seal" OR layers of 30 pound roofing felt (heavy tar paper)... and again I'm not even sure this is where you were going, or may still be going in regards to that question. As far as decoupling goes in general as I searched for above I came accross this thread "Sill Seal" used in studio construction? which has some really good info on or warnings about trying to decouple. Marc

Ok I will post some pics by this weekend. We are doing some more work tomarow night I will take the rest of the pics and have them developed. In regards to decoupling. I was talking about The metal joist brakets (themselves) that you screw to the main beam and mount the cross members on. I was thinking there is a little play in each I thought I could put something soft in each bracket then squeeze the cross member in the bracket then nail it. I was thinking this would just to reduce some vibration? I will have you know this is going to be a VERY coupled build. Download the free google-sketchup I will show you the layout before the pics

Here is a layout of the whole place. Its not exaclty to scale yet. The entire outside parameter and roof is sheet metal and insulation. The walls in Red, Green and Blue are 1/2" drywall attached to the metal frame on the outside walls or standard 2x4 walls on the interior partitions Red room- This is the practice room ruffly 20x20 sloping ceiling from 8' to about 10'. The metal cross member in the center of the room is visable as is the one above the partition wall. This is the real problem with the build. 1/2 dry wall is mounted to the frame in this room. Concrete slab. Blue room- this was going to be someones bathroom at some point but the owner threw in the towel mid construction and let bands rent it out instead. They ran PCV under this room for shower and toilet and It sits on a 2x10 frame. im 70% sure its pier and beam only on this room. Dew to the ceiling damage and the exposed drain-pipes this room was deemed too scary to enter about 10 years ago, and so the band before we moved in decided to board it up forever. Over the years we have heard strange noises like rats having keg partys, birds laying eggs, and in the winter the refreshing smell of skunks can be enjoyed coming threw the thin walls of the mystery room! We cracked it open for the first time in 10 years last weekend, and have the pictures to proove it! I hope they turn out because you will get a kick out of the stuff we found in there...........no dead bodies but it took us each a few beers before we got the balls to walk in. Green room This is going to be Bottom Feeder Studio Control Room 2A! Control 1A is in the saftey of my bedroom, ironicly almost the same size! Ok my band is called (Carp) the studio is called (Bottom feeder) Im a genius.......... You couldnt have picked a worse room with the worst construction. Every single wall is of a diferent construction and highth! Partition wall- Very short just under 7 feet only 1 top plate bolted to the metal cross beem (1/4 clearence) and anchored to the floor. Its standared 2x4 construction with a plexi glass window built by someone who has never been to this forum, and a hollow core door. The master builder also cut a 4x4" hole in the bottom of the drywall for cableing (f-ing amatures)! The wall adjacent to the partition is the outside (call it back wall) wall. 1/2 drywall mounted to the metal with panneling (we already removed) over that. The top of the drywall on this side is a good 8" higher than the partition yet the way its mounted is a little confusing right now. By the way all metal beams are baby blue in my diagrham. The OTHER outside wall has a real glass window I want to put AC in. The drywall in mounted on 3 2x6 metal beams. the top beam is just an inch or so short of the partition wall but the dry wall extends up to the full 8' (I think). The adjacent wall is over the bathroom subfloor Its a standered 2x4 wall pretty tall about 10' from the concrete to the top. With a formerly sealed door that was nailed shut for years. Take a look at the next more detailed diagrham.

Green room This is going to be Bottom Feeder Studio Control Room 2A! Control 1A is in the saftey of my bedroom, ironicly almost the same size! Ok my band is called (Carp) the studio is called (Bottom feeder) Im a genius.......... You couldnt have picked a worse room with the worst construction. Every single wall is of a diferent construction and highth! Partition wall- Very short just under 7 feet only 1 top plate bolted to the metal cross beem (1/4 clearence) and anchored to the floor. Its standared 2x4 construction with a plexi glass window built by someone who has never been to this forum, and a hollow core door. The master builder also cut a 4x4" hole in the bottom of the drywall for cableing (f-ing amatures)! The wall adjacent to the partition is the outside (call it back wall) wall. 1/2 drywall mounted to the metal with panneling (we already removed) over that. The top of the drywall on this side is a good 8" higher than the partition yet the way its mounted is a little confusing right now. By the way all metal beams are baby blue in my diagrham. The OTHER outside wall has a real glass window I want to put AC in. The drywall in mounted on 3 2x6 metal beams. the top beam is just an inch or so short of the partition wall but the dry wall extends up to the full 8' (I think). The adjacent wall is over the bathroom subfloor Its a standered 2x4 wall pretty tall about 10' from the concrete to the top. With a formerly sealed door that was nailed shut for years. _______________ Here is the plan I have to put a real ceiling in this room and at least make it sealed. Total decoupling / Room within a room is almost imposible unless I want to duck when I stand in that room. The headroom is already too short. No we cant knock down the bathroom. Soooooooooooooooo. The Only place in the room to add ridgid beams, that will be equal in highth and strong enough, I feel is on the wall with the glass window. I want to attach metal 2x6 brackets to the top metal beam above the window. I will angle the 2x6 wood beam upwards to be attached to the the adjacent bathroom wall just above that door. They would be mounted flush to the outside wall and flush to the patition wall. Then 2x6 rafters will go across to make the ceiling. Id rather not try to tackle an angled ceiling but I dont see it any other way, however the acoustics should be cool if I put my desk under the window? We already gave this a try on the partition side. The problem this creates Id the bottom of the beam on the low side is right at 7 feet (just below the partition. The top puts it about 9' (just above the partition) This again makes my wall difficult to get air tight. My solution is to add a 2x4 spacer all the way across the top of the partition mounted on the inside of the frame. When my beam is mounted to that, there will not be any gaps on the inside. Then I could mount 2 sandwiched 2x4 across the bottom (sole) plate and another in the middle to hang dry wall on. Making my partition wall 8" thick / Yes totaly coupled but still a pretty deep wall. maybe you have another idea but I can seem to come up with one.