Small studio in 3D

thanks - I have started another thread as I don't want to hijack this one, Any input is impreciated ! - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17521

Thank you so much for sharing John!

NIce sketch! Interested to note that the control room is not symmetrical as i keep reading on this forum that symmetry is important in the mixing room environment? Matt

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not symmetrical". The front half of the control room certainly is symmetrical, which is what matters. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart - thanks for clearing that up _ I wasn't sure if the front walls were at the same splay angle and also how far back behind the mix position the symmetry had to continue. . . Matt

I wasn't sure if the front walls were at the same splay angle

I think it's a bit of an optical illusion, due to the strange angles overall, but they actually are the same angles.

and also how far back behind the mix position the symmetry had to continue. . .

As far as possible! :) Realistically, as long as there is symmetry up to just past the mix position then things should be reasonably good, but 50% of the room is a better goal to aim for. Also, since this design has mostly absorption on the rear wall, that tends to improve things too. - Stuart -

How do I make a Floor plan like John has done in this skp-file? Ah.. Camera > Parallel projection :)

These drawing are very cool, and generous. I have a question. Is it for the sake of simplicity that in both drawings the soffit bezel would appear to be mechanically coupled to the soffit framing? Is it OK to build the soffit like a big cabinet all the way around? Or is it just not detailed in the drawings that the bezel is decoupled? Almost everything I have read in this forum favors decoupling.

Is it OK to build the soffit like a big cabinet all the way around? Or is it just not detailed in the drawings that the bezel is decoupled?

It can go either way, actually. There's two schools of thought on this, but they both end up with the same result. The goal is this: prevent the speaker from transferring vibration to the baffle. You can do that either with the "brute force" method, which is basically to make the whole thing so massive and rigid that even an atomic bomb wouldn't make it vibrate, and the other is the "total isolation" method, which basically is to "float" the speaker such that there is no mechanical connection between speaker and baffle (or in other words, as you said: decouple it). Either way, the baffle still has to be rigid and massive, so there's no difference there. The difference is in how you support the speaker. with the "decoupled" or "totally isolated" method, you use rubber to isolate the speaker from the box that keeps it in place, and personally I add a second layer of rubber to isolate that assembly from the rest of the soffit framing (sort of a "belt and braces" approach). In this case, you need to do the math to make sure that the rubber really is causing the speaker to float, because if it isn't floating, then you have the potential for numerous big problems. With this system, basically the speaker can move all it wants as it vibrates, but none of that is transferred to the structure With the "brute force" approach, the speaker is mounted very rigidly, on a massive (heavy) frame, such that it cannot move. Some people use concrete blocks, other use sand-filled metal frames, bricks, or just massive wood. But even here it is advisable to keep the baffle and speaker separate, on different frames, if possible. John doesn't show that here, as this is just a simplified model, without all the details. - Stuart -

Excellent. Thank you much. I am considering both builds carefully. Instinct tells me it will be isolation for my individual needs at this time. I remember reading about the rubber calculations in the last few days, just don't remember where. I have only been reading 3 things though; this forum, MHoA, the Genelec tutorial. So it will be in one of those places. Current link for the Genelec flush mounting tutorial is http://www.genelec.com/learning-center/ ... -mounting/ . (There are some older links in the forums that no longer work.) -Mark

(There are some older links in the forums that no longer work.)

Thanks! If you do find links like that on the forum, then please let me know by PM where they are, and I'll try to fix them. - Stuart -

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us! I am planning to build three rooms like this, but I wonder if can alter the measurements. Like add 20% to all numbers. Or would I end up totally wrong? Also, any suggestion where I could add a window in the CR to get light in, without ruining the acoustics?

between the speakers Ketil

Thanks a lot John! I will start a separate building thread when we start off. :shot: Any thoughts on increasing the size by adding percents? I have read thru this thread, but havent found any tips regarding this.

Here is my preliminary drawing. The main studio in red is not ready in the drawing yet. I would love to have as much windows as I can into the "small studio in 3D" rooms ( marked in yellow ), also the entrance doors need to be moved :roll: Is it maybe a possibility to make the doors into the LR? on one of them, and on the right side on the inner left CR? Any hint is much apreciated :yahoo:

I am very grateful to John for his free Small Studio design and am beginning to plan a build based on this design. I would like to know how HVAC would be best handled in this space. I wanted to use the Daikin Ururu Sarara split air con system but do I need two - one for each room - or can I get away with one in the live room with exhaust in the control room? Is there a problem in placing the internal air con in the control room i.e. air flow affecting listening as well as the noise of the fan? Regards Jim

In general, it is not a good idea to have one room exhausting its stale air into another room, which is what you would have if you only used one unit. It would not save you much either, as you'd still need to build two duct systems with silencer boxes and fans: One system would be to feed the air from one room to the other, and the second system would be to bring the doubly-stale air back again. I've always wondered about those Ururu units, and where the stale air goes. As far as I understand it, they include a small duct to bring fresh air into the room, but do they also include another duct to remove stale air FROM the room? If not, then where does the stale air go? A studio is, by definition, a hermetically sealed, with two absolutely air-tight seals all around, on all sides. So having a pipe to bring air into the room is pointless unless you also have another equal sized pipe to take air out of the room.... - Stuart -

Any thoughts on increasing the size by adding percents?

You can scale up and down, but do be aware that even though the ratio will remain the same, you are still moving all the modes to a different set of frequencies, which might or might not be in a good musical relationship. Of course, if you scale everything by exactly 200%, then that's not a problem, as you just moved it all down by one entire octave... :) (But you do have 16 foot ceilings then!) - Stuart -

Thanks a lot Soundman! I only have 11.5 feet :) ...but talking about height...I cant seem to find the height measurement in SketchUp. I might be a bad SketchUp practitioner, but I have looked everywhere to try and find out the height of this studio :oops: Also, where would you put a/c ?

I cant seem to find the height measurement in SketchUp.

Use the tape measure tool... :)

Also, where would you put a/c ?

John doesn't show how he did it in that case, but I would put a small mini-split on the rear wall in each room, then duct the fresh air and stale air out through suitable locations in the existing structure, using silencer boxes. That would have to be designed according to how much isolation you need. - Stuart -

In this design it seems that when the sliding doors are open it would effectively be a single leaf system. If I need most isolation to be to the outside of the studio would I be better off sealing across the two rooms either where the sliding doors end - or at the end where the outer leaf goes? I realize this would create a 3 leaf area when the sliding doors are closed but I don't think I will be able to afford really thick glass sliding doors. Regards Jim

In this design it seems that when the sliding doors are open it would effectively be a single leaf system.

With any room design, if you open one of the doors on a two-leaf wall, then you only have a one-leaf wall. sliding glass doors are no different than any other doors in that respect.

If I need most isolation to be to the outside of the studio

Isolation is a two-way street: it's really hard to isolate a room in only one direction, such that it blocks sound going out but not coming in! So your isolation is always pretty much the same in either direction.

I don't think I will be able to afford really thick glass sliding doors.

Those things are pretty expensive, for sure! To save money, you can replace those with ordinary hinged swinging doors. You can put smaller panes of glass in those, at strategic locations so you still have some sight lines between rooms. - Stuart -

Thanks so much for all your input here Stuart. For ventilation I noticed there is a product from Acoustica called Aeropac see http://www.acoustica.com.au/aeropac.html Do you think this is a viable option rather than building my own ventilation silencer boxes? Regards Jim

I just received info that the Aeropac ventilation system costs around $700 (Australian dollars) Regards Jim

Here is my picture thread for the Smallstudio.skp I have increased the size by 25% on one of the rooms. I have also amended a bit due to to door/ hall problems and speakerstand issues. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 780951e8b9