Peel Productions - JohnG's Studio Thread

Insulation compleated!! Of to Aussy this weekend for a weeks work and the Rugby (AllBlacks verse Wallabies). Might bump into John, never know!! JG

Guys, I have 66mm stud cavities that I will need to buy insulation for shortly. In New Zealand our options are: Rockwool and Rigid Fibreglass Panels - Thickness: 25mm, 50mm, 75mm, 100mm Normal Pink Fluffy Fibreglass - Thickness: 50mm, 70mm, 90mm Sound Control Black Fluffy Fibreglass - Thickness: 75mm, 100mm I am not sure what thickness to use as 50mm is 16mm to thin and 75mm is 9mm to thick and will stick out to much. What do you all recommend - How about 50mm rockwool or rigid fibreglass panels pressed up to the plasterboard? I will have 16mm of air in the walls at the front but at least this way once the cloth covers the walls I will have a flat wall. Thanks

Anyone?

Well framing started today - pretty easy really only took 2hours. I am running 10mm rubber on top and bottom of these walls, which you can see on the left of the second picture, so we measured each stud to make sure we get a nice snug fit whan we lift the walls. I will be glueing on the rubber playmatt tomorow and screwing the 16mm plasterboard on once the glue has dried. Should have walls stood this week I hope. Couple of shots: Sam the builder and walls ready to go!! PS-still waiting on any replys on the above insulation question

Very interesting "grid" framing. Hey, Doni -- what do you make of it?

Kieth, It's just a standard wall with 2 rows of cats which in the long run if he was to add 3 layers of sheetrock and 2 layers of mdf sandwiched inbetween the sheethrock the wall could handle the weight with no problem. But it also looks like those are not standard 2x4's either. What size is the lumber your using in that wall John?

JohnGardner wrote:

What do you all recommend - How about 50mm rockwool or rigid fibreglass panels pressed up to the plasterboard? I will have 16mm of air in the walls at the front but at least this way once the cloth covers the walls I will have a flat wall.

hey john, i'm no expert but since no one has answered i believe you want to put the rigid insulation flush with the front (or maybe leaving a very slight inset) and leaving most of the gap behind. because i think that having the absorption away from the wall with a gap will make it even a bit more effective. something to do with affecting longer wavelengths better. if this is wrong someone please chime in ... :?:

Guys, I work for a sawmilling / timber processing company here in New Zealand. That blue lumber is a structual product we make for the Australian market called "Design Pine". It is Radiata Pine - fingerjoint clears-pressure treated and painted/primed. Total overkill for my walls but it is some seconds I got from work and is great to work with because every length is dead straight. The size I am using for my walls is 66mmx42mm and will only have one layer of 5/8th board attached to it as its the "inside" part of my "inside out walls" JG

Doni - what you called cats - we call noggins - our building codes stipulate cats at 1.2m (4') spacing on any framed wall. you are going to add the plaster John? - you've got these guys confused :) cheers john

Cats, noggins, dwangs, fire blocks - too dang many terms for the same "dwang" thing... :?

LOL aint that the truth Steve. Like the IRC they should make a standardized termonology building glossary so everyone knows what everyone else is talking about no matter what part of the world they are from.

Yup - sheet rock, rock, gyp-board, gypsum, gypsum wallboard, plasterboard, gyp-rock, etc - then there's wafer wood, OSB, Strand board, etc, and no two places can agree on which is which half the time; according to one definition/description, OSB should have no visible, large chunks - yet I see stacks of the stuff with big chunks showing (instead of long shavings) and a big sign calling it OSB - These guys http://www.umass.edu/bmatwt/publication ... ywood.html At least call the stuff what it is, but Home Depot doesn't seem to know. At least most tradesmen work in localized areas enough that the local terms are familiar... Steve

John, Dwangs here in New Zealand!!~ Yep, just glueing the rubber strips top and bottom then I will screw on the plasterboard and stand the walls. Will get a few snaps to show the rubber for everyone today. JG

Heres the rubber glued to the top and bottom of the walls, very colour co-ordinated we are down under!!

I'm a little skeptical about the rubber tops and bottoms, John... :roll: It this a proven solution?

Hi Keith, There are a couple of studios (several infact) on Johns "Studio's Under Construction" link that use this method. Check out "Siliva Productions", "Leftbank" and "GuruLand" as working examples with photo's of this method. http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainp ... ruland.htm John also recomended this method when I used his phone service. I can actually see how it will work, especially with a existing floor like mine that is slightly uneven and has some old glue lines from where the carpet was ripped up. You have to imangine the walls are cut very tight (We measured each Stud) so they will compress the rubber top and bottom when stood into place. I actually expect to have to hammer them into there final posistion with a rubber claw hammer once the walls are lifted. The rubber is also flush with the back edge of the lumber to allow a nice small gap to caulk in the front once the walls are up. Keith, all this is pretty new to me and the problem is I suppose you never really know how it's going to work untill it's finished or if you have done it before!!. All I can do is have some faith in some of the advice I have been given / paid for and as the shoe man says "Just do It" JG

I see. I'm surely not questioning our genius host... ;-) ...but am I understanding that the wall frames will not be secured to the ceiling/joists/trusses or the floor slab, but rather will be "wedged in" with a rubber mallet, held up by the friction of the spring-loaded rubber?

Hi Keith, Yep, I think that's the general idea however we were going to look at attaching them to the floor at a couple of stategic spots depending how well the walls were "wedged" in place. Problem is the nails will short out the system some what but it maybe unavoidable. Because all the walls are conected at the corners making basically a very heavy box isolated top and bottom with rubber I am hoping it will be pretty near impossible for the walls to move once they are all connected and wedged in place. JG

Raising the inside out walls, took a mallet to get them in place but they are as snug as now. Very heavy - work out - me on the left and the bro!!

JohnGardner wrote:

me on the left and the bro!!

maybe i'm no sherlock holmes, but that must be you on the right ... tell me i'm wrong! :)

Dan, Sorry Sherlock - me on the left - my bro's a guitarist, can't you tell!! Just a side note about the inside out walls regarding Keith comments a few posts back now I have actually stood one wall. I was really surprised how tight the wall was when we actually stood it up. I had to really belt it into place with a heavy mallet to make sure it was straight with a level. The rubber top and bottom has compressed really well to make a nice tight seal. I doubt if I could actually get it more stable if it was attached (read nailed or bolted) to the floor and/or ceiling. It is a very sturdy and stable wall and there is no way it can move. I think once I stand the other three walls and screw them all togeather it will be really really solid - Its the ceiling and floor that are my real concerns. It's a fine line between headroom and isolation and I keep changng my mind like the wind!! JohnG

DAMN :evil:

If that wall is wedged in as tightly as you say, then I doubt there's much benefit to the rubber. It seems it's so well compressed that it's "shorted out." I'm also concerned about the long-term nature of the compression. Yes, it may be very tight and snug right now, but over time it may start to wiggle loose. It probably does make a good seal, but I don't know -- something tells me I wouldn't want to rely on the "wedge effect" to keep the wall standing for years... :roll:

All good points Keith, I checked the rubber this morning and was actually surprised that there still is quite a bit of give in it still (seems to be anyway). I found once you got it over a certain angle of attack with the wall and actually got the wall straight it compressed less / more evenly as there was more surface area touching the ceiling and floor. I am also going to caulk it well to provide another "barrier" of seal. I think it will "settle" as you say and longterm who knows - we will move again in the next five years so it will be some elses problem anyways!! Will keep you posted once the other walls are up, I have to do something about the ceiling and floor anyway and this extra mass I put there will cover over the rubber anyway. I think all the rubber proably really does is help with some vibrations going into the ceiling and floor, if I have acheived that then it's probaly worth the $60 for the rubber and glue!! JohnG

A couple more photos to share especially for anyone thinking of using the inside out wall system: Photo one: Wall on the floor ready to stand, Photo two: Cross-section shot showing rubber on studs, 5/8th plasterboard, air/insulation and beefed up original wall. JohnG