Peel Productions - JohnG's Studio Thread

Had the electrician around yesterday to disconnect lights plugs etc in my room so I have finally started. Just need to knock down two non-structual partition walls and the room is mine. Plan is: (1) Rip up carpet (2) Seal existing floor cracks and any wall holes (have a few of these) (3)Beef up existing wall with a new layer of 13mm plasterboard (4) Add a new layer of 20mm flooring to original floor (5) Inside out walls on floor - rubber top and bottom + another wall between control room. (6) New ceiling on RC with two layers of board (6) Doors x2, caulking, insulation, slats etc (7) Snake between rooms (8) Rock!! easy as that: looks like a mission when it written down!! Keep ya all posted JG

update (1) First pic showing layout of live room with carpet pulled up exposing existing flooring, you can also see where I removed the two partition walls.

Stand back, everyone -- John's got power tools and he is not afraid to use them!! ;) Congratulations on your "groundbreaking," John -- we're all watching and we will be delighted to pretend to be know-it-alls and point out all of your mistakes as you make them. :lol: Keep those pictures comin' -- if you don't take pictures of your progress, we'll just assume you're lying. ;)

Update (2) Well the plan was to spend Sunday fixing a couple of holes in the existing walls around power points and where I removed a old aircon unit and then, to beef up this wall, we were going to screw and glue up a new layer of 13mm plasterboard directlly to this existing 10mm sheet. As per usual it all took longer than expected. We found that when the floor moulding was removed the wall was higher then the original plasterboard sheets by about 50mm. The original builder had run a small strip of wallboard in the gap at the bottom of the wall to finish the wall off and put the moulding over top. We had to plaster this gap right around the room to seal it up. This actually really sucks because my new plasterboard sheets I am going to attach to this existing wall will also be 50mm to short at the top when I put them up flush to the floor. I will basically have to do the reverse of what the original builder did and run a strip of board around the ceiling where the new board falls short and plaster the crack. More work and more room for leakage!!. We also found a huge 25mm airgap under both the window frames when there mouldings were removed. We had to seal these gaps with "spary in the hole" foam and will have to cut and sand this back and plaster it before the new wallboard goes up.

John - that expandable foam filler you used is absolutely useless!! It might as well not be there. I'd rip it out and seal wiith proper acoustic caulking or just plain old plaster!! cheers john

Hi John, Thanks for the heads up - I am going to cut this right back flush with the existing board and plaster and tape over top of it. There is also another full layer of 13mm wall board to go over top of this plaster and tape. Just to be safe I will run another layer over top of this in this area meaning 23mm of plasterboard, same as the rest of the wall. It is really only there as a backing for the new plaster and tape plus the new layer of board. JG

JohnGardner wrote:

I am going to cut this right back flush with the existing board and plaster and tape over top of it.JG

That's not his point. You should properly seal off the space so sound won't come in thru that area. Expandable foam has no sound dampening, retarding or isolation properties.

Regarding the expanding foam, I had a few minor gaps and cracks to fill in my garage concrete slab walls. I found that by using the foam as normal, waiting about 20-25 mins for it to semi cure, then pushing all the excess that hangs out back into the crack with your fingers, instead of trimming it off later. (gloves recommended, if it's still wet beneath the 'skin' you be weeks trying get it off!) The foam then dries much denser and harder, and it can't be pushed or poked it like normally can, which should increase it's soundproofing qualities somewhat. I've also got the tops of the walls, which are covered in corrugated asbestos to fill and I'll probably use the same trick, as I can't think of any other way to plug those 'wavy' holes.

Well the caulk and plaster seemed to have now dried and it's time for the new layer of 13mm wall board. Quick question about that: My room is about 50mm higher than the wallboard sheets. For the original layer the builder put the wallboard flush to the ceiling and left a gap of 50mm at the bottom of the wall. He cut a small strip of 50mm wallboard that he nailed into this gap straight onto the bottom plate and then put a moulding over top to hide his poor workmanship. - you can see this if you look closely in the photo of my bro above. I removed the moulding, plastered the crack between the original sheet and the wallboard strip and then caulked the gap between the bottom of the strip and the floor. For the next layer I just can't decide if I should run my new sheets (which are 50mm short again) flush to the ceiling or flush to the floor - I am thinking floor as it will stagger the seams with the first layer and make for a better wall seal however it's going to be a bitch to run a strip of 50mm plasterboard around the ceiling and than plaster it. What do you all reckon? Thanks JohnG

Life IS a bitch; you definitely do NOT want TWO cobbled up joints in the same area, so not much choice. Just make sure the "cobble job" is as heavy as the rest of the wall; no foam, but heavy mud (drywall compound) is OK. Mass needs to be maintained, and no leaks... Steve

As I thought, thanks Steve. It's probally easier to put the wallboard up that way anyway. JohnG :)

Well got around to starting to add a new layer of 13mm wallboard to my original walls last night to beef them up. Apart from a bit of trouble finding studs and dwangs, the drill running out of power and a small gap in the corners that will need some heavy plaster and tape it all went kinda OK for a first timer!!. Sheets are glued and screwed oppersite direction to the original sheets. The photos show a couple of these going up and the gap in the corner where the sheets did not line up that needs plastering once we finish. I used a small 6mm board to keep the sheets up from the floor for caulking and apart from the corner gap they all run fairly square top and bottom

Hey John, I have a question, and I beg your forgiveness if my not asking this before now is going to cause you major heartburn. I see that according to your "plan" that you posted on May 18, you're beefing up your existing wall with a new layer of plasterboard, and then you eventually intend to create inside out walls on floor. I neglected to pick up on that back then -- I was too busy making clever remarks to contribute anything meaningful. :roll: Aren't you concerned about the three-leaf effect on your TL? I count three leaves:

1. Outer surface of building 2. Inner surface of room, including the "beef up" panels 3. New (yet to be constructed) inside-out walls

Have you done any calculations to determine what kind of amplification you are sure to experience with your third leaf? :shock: If this is a revelation to you, then shame on us for not paying close enough attention to your intentions...

Hi Sharward, thanks for the reply - no, not a revelation at all!! You are correct, the system will have three leafs however the outside leaf of the building is 6mm sheetrock/cladding, and only really weather sealed, not airtight. I used John's phone service after getting totally confused by some of the info I was getting and after a couple of long conversations and plan updates we decided to ignore this leaf totally as it is so thin and not airtight anyway. I know there will be a few disagreements with this thinking and I realize that I will get a few db's less performance (probally at the low end) out of the walls like this but I can live with that- It was just not an option, nor did I have the budget to rip down the existing plasterboard and try to beef up and seal the outside wall from the inside. Thanks however for keeping an eye one my project, it's nice to have some interest and alternative ideas at each step, that's why I am putting a few photo's up. Thanks again and here's the total room plan John and I agreed on as reference of what I am doing. JohnG

JohnGardner wrote:

I used John's phone service after getting totally confused by some of the info I was getting and after a couple of long conversations and plan updates we decided to ignore this leaf totally as it is so thin and not airtight anyway.

Alrightee then -- you're in good hands! 8)

Thanks however for keeping an eye one my project, it's nice to have some interest and alternative ideas at each step, that's why I am putting a few photo's up.

No problem at all, John. Sometimes we get a little wrapped up in our own crazy projects that we forget about everyone else! :mrgreen:

Guys, A couple of quick questions: (1)Should I plaster or caulk these gaps around my window frame where the new layer of wallboard has run just short. I am thinking caulk as it will allow natural movement of these window frames but will the isolation still be OK? (2)This wall will not be seen or painted as a new inside out wall will go in front of it. I am applying three layers of plaster and jointing tape to all seams and screw holes as per normal plastering procedure but is there any benefit in spending additional time sanding this back after the final layer of plaster has dried. Thanks as always JohnG

Am I missing something here? Your "limiting factor" for that leaf of the wall is the window itself. Caulk will seal that gap better than plaster will. Ultimate isolation can only happen if that window is eliminated IMO.

The window will be sealed of course!!

I think the point Xalky is making is that, even if that window is totally sealed up, the glass itself is likely less mass than the wall it's a part of. This makes the window the "weakest link" in your outer leaf. This is an important point, because no matter how good that wall is sealed up, more sound will escape through the window.

Myth: If you have a bad window on great walls with a great floor and great ceiling, you will have only "slightly worse than great" soundproofing. Fact: If you have a bad window on great walls with a great floor and great ceiling, you will have only "slightly better than bad" soundproofing. :?

That being said, caulk is probably your better choice, but Xalky is correct in saying that the most correct solution from a soundproofing perspective would be to remove the window completely, filling the hole with wall.

Thanks Sharward, I think maybe eveyone is confused by what I am actually doing with the window. I am not just leaving the glass there, obviously that will be a waste of time as its very thin and not airtight. I am screwing and glueing and sealing a 20mm panel of MDF straight over/onto this window frame. It will totally cover these windows and will be airtight. This will be more "Mass" than the actual wall boards are in this part of my system!!. PS- before I get told its three leaf please note I have discounted the glass as a leaf because its not sealed or airtight - any reduction in db because of this, I can live with. I am asking about the seams around this window (as you can see in the photo) not the window it-self. JohnG

Don't you love it when you ask "question A" and get answers to "unasked question B"? ;) That's good that you're putting some mass in that window cavity. :)

So, John, do you still have questions (if so please post specifics) or have they been addressed? Also, you have glass, then covering with the 20mm MDF - what were you considering to be a third leaf? (And yes, even unsealed the glass will act as a leaf; just not a very GOOD one, and mainly in a BAD way) Steve

Steve, Pretty sorted now with answers - will post an update in the next few days. I have been a busy boy with the sander and caulk gun. Justy about ready for insulation. JohnG

Just a quick update seeing it's been a few weeks. Photo one:The new layer of plasterboard is installed, taped and sanded. Photo two:All seams around top, bottom and windows are caulked. Next step is sealing the windows with 32mm of MDF, then staple 75mm insulation to these walls and then get my builder mate around to start cutting the inside out walls that will sit 75mm from the walls you can now see. Progress costs in this game!!

Another update: Photo one: Windows sealed with 32mm MDF, screwed and caulked. Photo two: 75mm stapled to beefed up walls and sealed windows - alot easier than I thought it would be!!. Frames for inside out walls being cut this Friday!! JG