Soundproofing a Drum Room (15 x 11) Help?

Hello all, I am in need of some good advice. This is my first post, but I've been an avid fan of this site for many, many months. Nice to meet all of you. Here's my situation. I just purchased a new home and want to turn a downstairs basement room (15 x 15 overall) into a soundproofed drum / recording area. When I say soundproofed, I don't mean perfect, I mean as good as possible for a medium to moderate budget. ($2,000 - $4,000). The room is 15 x 15, but I plan on putting up a wall about 3 to 3-1/2 ft. to make a storage room for art supplies, equipment etc. The actual drum room will be 15 x 11. I only brought this up because I wanted to make certain it can be done and honest planning goes a long way these days. Being a drummer most of my life, I know how much attention a kit can attract people in a busy neighborhood. When I was living with my parents, it wasn't odd to have a line full of kids outside our house just to listen, wait for me to come out, and then ask to come in. Now with my own family, I'm trying to avoid this as much as possible. I'm moving into a hoidy-toidy neighborhood, so isolating my 26" maple kick drum and 18" cerwin vega speakers is a must here. No, I don't crank the speakers too loud, but I DO like to mic my kick w/ an AKG so I can feel it. :) My plan is to take out the carpeting, put up a divider wall (storage area), and put up another frame (mass air mass). I want to use Roxul for insulation. I'm not certain how many layers of sheet rock to use, or how big of air space will be in between the two (staggered) frames. I'm thinking maybe 2 to 4"? I will also build some bass traps for the corners and sides of the room. The master bedroom lies directly above said room, so I wanted to know if hanging some sound absorber thingies (sorry forgot what they were called) and building another ceiling would help in this area. There's only one window in the room and I've seen what others on this forum have done to fix that. So I was thinking of covering it with a heavy box w/ insulation and attaching it to the wall. As for the main entrance door, I like the idea of sealed double-sided doors. How expensive are these? Anyone? I have a relative who's a carpenter, so he knows how to float a floor, but I want to get some feedback first, as I don't want to spend more than I have to. If a room within a room (minus the floating floor) is the best way to go - great. If you tell me to just worry about the proper building of the walls, then I am willing to listen to your opinions as well. The main goal is to be able to play, record, have other musician friends over to "jam" and make music without getting the fuzz called on us. Please see my diagram I made in illustrator (mac). thanks in advance, help me make my dreams come true! aaronious

anyone, anyone?...... <crickets>

Give the guys some time. Most importantly is list your location. This way they can advise you on materials and such pertaining to your location. While you are waiting may I suggest going to the beginning of the construction forum and doing a little reading(a lot actually!) There is so much information it is mind blowing. Sorry I can't be of any personal assistance. I have not constructed my space yet since I haven't first researched out my actual existing wall construction and options. Here is a link to start with- http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125 This is a great link which should provide many eye openers into the world of studio design and construction. Good luck, Dougo

I live in the upper midwest. I have read many things already. I'm just looking for advice on a set-up, I'm not the one who's going to build it though. I can be patient. thanks!

greetings fellow designing-studio-in-illustrator guy. :D if you put your location in your profile, that's better because it will always be there for reference. if this thread goes on to the next page, nobody will remember where you said you are. goofy picture optional. i'm in somewhat of the same spot as you in the research/plan stages, so i know that one of the first things that will be asked is exactly what is the construction of your existing walls, ceiling and floor. very importantly, how high is the existing ceiling. Is the ceiling wallboarded or not, what type of joists are there and how far apart are they. are your walls wood construction or brick or concrete etc. the more details you provide, the more advice you will get. :) most likely you are looking at building a complete room within a room, that only touches your house through the rubber pads it sits on. this may involve tearing up your existing walls and ceiling depending on how they are currently made. good luck

yes, I am a mac fanatic. Artists unite! Please see my avatar for my typical mood, as well as my location. :) Sorry I didn't give more detail to my idea, it's been known to happen from time to time. The ceiling height is the standard bedroom height (8' or 9'?). The room I plan on converting is a regular, plain room (ready to be destroyed if needbe). White painted walls, carpeting on the floor, etc. They are constructed of regular sheet rock. I'm leaning towards not floating the floor... not sure if it's worth the pain. I mean, the neighbors can hear me, I just don't want to blow them away. any suggestions?

aaronious - I wouldn't bother with the floating floor as you are in a basement. I'd do the 'room within a room' as you suggested - I'd look at putting some kind of air exchange into your window openning because if you seal it up to be soundproof it will also be airtight and you'll need fresh air. cheers john

Thanks for the advice... My wife pretty much said the same thing. Fresh air is good to have in a room that you sweat in. If I dont find an efficient way to seal up my window, won't it be my weakest link? How can I get a window to be sealed shut when I need to make noise and open when I'm not playing? Anyone have a tip or two? I'll do some digging too.... thanks again for the advice guys.

Another question I had is if I'm going to be building a room within a room, would I need to take the drywall off of the current (normal bedroom type) wall? Couldn't I just leave the normal wall alone, rip out the carpet and frame the new (2nd) wall a few inches away from the one that's already there?

Greetings fellow drummer guy wanting soundproofedness in your new home! There are some similarities between your project and mine. Check out my thread if you haven't already (make yourself comfortable -- it's long!). --Keith

I pay drums as well. I just built a complete live room for about 1500 bucks total. I'm actually just put the carpet in over the weekend. I live in a brand new subdivision, so I was worried about sound. I didnt float a floor. I sealed the floor and put cheap carpet with the pad that is already attached down. Menards or HD has it. Works great. I built the walls about a 8 inches ot a foot out from the concrete wall. I used R19 insulation all around. I used a mix of R19/R13 on the cealing behind the drywall. (R13 because of the duct work clearance) I screwed the drywall right to the floor joists. The window well is insulated as well. I just used a mix of things and sealed it up tight. I dont have any acoustic foam yet so I put som large moving blankets on the walls and cealing. I had my wife go outside and listen as I beat the heck out of the drums. She could bearly hear anything. Even right outside the window well. She then stood in the room above the live room. Not to bad. No China rattled nothing. I wanted to build a room on a small budget. I did just that. Once I get the bass traps and other things to fill up the room, the sound should deaden even more. You dont HAVE to spend thousands on a live room. Our neighbor down the street from us built a live room for his band. He spent about 6k on it. Used all those fancy clips for hanging drywall on the tracks, expensive cauk, and so on. It literally sounds the same as my room. There is no difference except he spent a ton of dough and I didnt.

sharward - hi there, wow your thread certainly is a long one. Filled with a lot of info to chew on. I'm horrid with building stuff to say the least and my plan is based on a much smaller idea than yours. Great illustrations too. Vivid - I get what your saying. What do you mean when you say you sealed the floor? Sealed with what? Did you build a new frame and attach the insulation and drywall? What's a floor joist? (I don't know how to build squat) I really dont want to use blankets for soundproofing. They won't be able to hide the sound of my 26" maple kick drum being pumped through two 18" cerwin veaga pa speakers. Not only that... but to be honest, I think it looks cheap. This room cannot look like it was messed with. It has to keep the appearance of a normal bedroom - for re-sale purposes in the possible future.

aaronious wrote:

This room cannot look like it was messed with. It has to keep the appearance of a normal bedroom - for re-sale purposes in the possible future.

I submit that a well designed and constructed soundproof room might be more attractive to the next homeowner, not less. In my case, I really don't plan to move ever again. I'm not saying "never," but it's not a "temporary" home for us. However, being mindful of the fact that things could change, I would plan to repurpose my studio space into a sort of home theater setup.

Couldn't I just leave the normal wall alone, rip out the carpet and frame the new (2nd) wall a few inches away from the one that's already there?

You'd end up with a three-leaf system that way. That would be bad -- possibly worse than before you started. If you're not sure what a leaf is, let alone three of them, then you'll definitely want to read this thread. :)

here check out this illustration. notice how the difference between wall 3 (STC 40) and wall 5 (STC 57) is simply the REMOVAL of the wallboard in the middle ... material is TAKEN AWAY ... yet STC INCREASES from 40 to 57. that is the quick answer to "why should i remove existing wallboard?" dan

Hey Dan, I applied a layer of Quietrock 530 to my existing wall, per their recommendations: http://www.quietsolution.com/Construction_Solutions/construction_solutions.html Look under "Remodeling & Rehab" If I were to float a new wall in my room, would I have to remove my retrofit? Would I be creating a 3 leaf situation? Wish I had found this forum ealier :?

I submit that a well designed and constructed soundproof room might be more attractive to the next homeowner, not less. In my case, I really don't plan to move ever again. I'm not saying "never," but it's not a "temporary" home for us. However, being mindful of the fact that things could change, I would plan to repurpose my studio space into a sort of home theater setup.

I couldn't agree more with your opnion. My wife is very sceptical about how this room will turn out... the cost, the work, the finished result. I keep trying to convince her that it could very well turn out to be the nicest room in the house. We too don't plan on moving for a long time. I think another big decision is if I should pay a contractor to do the work, or if I can trust my electrician, carpenter, and roofing buddies come over and do it well... maybe hammer it out over a weekend with a keg or something? I'm torn.

aaronious wrote:

sharward - hi there, wow your thread certainly is a long one. Vivid - I get what your saying. What do you mean when you say you sealed the floor? Sealed with what?

Its a new house. I used concrete sealer on the floor and walls before I started building.

aaronious wrote:

Did you build a new frame and attach the insulation and drywall?

I framed out the walls about 8-10 inches from the concrete wall.

aaronious wrote:

What's a floor joist? (I don't know how to build squat)

If you go down to your unfinished basement, stand there and look up. The boards the run across the whole basement hold up the first floor.

aaronious wrote:

I really dont want to use blankets for soundproofing. They won't be able to hide the sound of my 26" maple kick drum being pumped through two 18" cerwin veaga pa speakers. Not only that... but to be honest, I think it looks cheap.

I took down the blankets. I only used them because I didnt have any foam yet. Also, is there a reason you play your kit through a PA in your house? Sounds like a little over kill to me.

aaronious wrote:

This room cannot look like it was messed with. It has to keep the appearance of a normal bedroom - for re-sale purposes in the possible future.

If I took everything out of this room and built a closet. It would be a 5 bedroom house. My live room looks like any other room in my house except the walls are different colors. :)

aaronious wrote:

I think another big decision is if I should pay a contractor to do the work, or if I can trust my electrician, carpenter, and roofing buddies come over and do it well... maybe hammer it out over a weekend with a keg or something?

I'm afraid your answer may be neither -- if you want good results. Over a weekend? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's funny! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I don't have time right now to compile a series of links to the :shock: horror story threads :shock: on this forum that include hiring contractors who thought they knew how to construct for acoustics but actually know very little and make horrible, virtually irreversible mistakes, and DIYers with or without tradespeople buddies who start and/or complete a job without doing the necessary research, and end up at best wasting valuable time and money and at worst wasting valuable time and money and ending up with a situation worse than where they started! To their defense, they are probably great at what they do... But this is such a specialized form of the trade that they cannot be expected to know how to do it, and they cannot be expected to know that they do not know how to do it. Spend a few more hours reviewing the wealth of information here, and you'll find many of these horror stories, some of which are very recent. You'll want to do anything and everything in your power to avoid the same fate. Remember, some of the experts here have learned things the hard way, and you and I have the benefit of learning things the easy way through their past mistakes.

I don't blast the PA... I only mic my bass drum through it, not too loud, but loud enough for it to stand out a tad. sharward - I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking for something that will work on a medium budget. Who do you suggest I hire within my budget? Thanks for your opinion, I know you're just trying to help. I'm here to learn more as well, been a dweller for over a year. nice to meet you. :twisted:

Vivid1 wrote:

Sounds like a little over kill to me.

you must not be a drummer. :lol:

As a purely architectural solution, i'd like to throw out an idea. Why not rotate your 11x15 room 90 degrees, as a possible fix for the window. Place the door to the storage in the middle for easier access to the storage, as well as being able to open for temp ventilation via the window. **You may have to disregard the 'acoustical' treatments i've shown, as i was just practicing with sketchup.

On second glance, that door (and 'treatment') might work better if it were hinged on the other side. :oops:

Holy Crap-o-la! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D That's the best rendering I've seen yet! Thanks a bunch for the idea. Now I have something to chew on for a while. :lol: I haven't moved into the new house yet, so I'm not sure of how tall the ceiling is in that room. If just the walls are soundproofed, without doing the ceiling as well, I reckon the sound will travel upwards into the rest of the house? My main concern is to not irritate or draw attention from my new neighbors, sure - I'd like to spare wifey & new kiddo the noise, but first priority is to lessen the sound traveling outside of the house. Thanks again guys! Keep the great ideas-a-flowin'! :twisted:

Have you heard of, or tried, the buttkicker? http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

Hahahhahaha,, sounds interesting, but not at all what I'd be interested in. It's more of a thing where I need to hear my kick drum at a certain level over the rest of my kit. :twisted: