FINISHED IN 2020! Sharward's Partial Garage Conversion

Oh definitely -- I feel like I finally have a third dimension (up) of progress, after being so focused on "under foot" work for so many months. 8) I definitely feel like I can take a couple of weeks off now. :twisted: Thanks. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

wow! great job.

Lookin' good! :mrgreen:

sharward wrote:

...with screws! ;-) --Keith

...with DRYWALL screws you mean? lol... (anyway, what ARE all those stringers meant to be for in Sonic Clang's build?.... is it for some sort of randomization of resonances?... I'm not making fun of them, I'm just curious)... But seriously, you must be quite enthused to be on the more 3d phases of your project... It's looks as if you'll be just as meticulous at this as you have been -- which will pay off.... I love progress.... it's so... it's so... progressive (pun?)... btw, I'll bet THESE screws would at least certainly give nails a run for the money (actually, I'm sure they must be better, but they cost alot of money too); check out the shear and bend-ability: http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/RSS_1_2_information.htm K

I,m always amazed with pictures of you guys framing that you don't use dwangs (horizontal timber inbetween the studs in the middle of the wall). This is commom practice downunder and makes the walls alot more sturdy with less chance of the studs warping. Keith, you should consider this perhaps? Thanks JohnG

JohnGardner wrote:

I'm always amazed with pictures of you guys framing that you don't use dwangs (horizontal timber inbetween the studs in the middle of the wall). This is commom practice downunder and makes the walls alot more sturdy with less chance of the studs warping. Keith, you should consider this perhaps?

Hi John -- thanks for weighing in. :) I did early on, but a professional framer (member of this forum) advised that it was not necessary, so I removed them from my framing plans (and the plans were approved by my city's building department without them). I might add them later though... It would be easy enough to do. Indeed -- the studs on my outer leaf wall (that I beefed up) were badly warped, making the beef-up process much more complicated than it should have been. :? Bear in mind that I will be sheathing all of the walls with 15/32" OSB before drywalling, which will add a tremendous amount of rigidity to the walls I'm building. --Keith :mrgreen:

I just noticed this thread, which includes reference of an air conditioning and ventilation plan for a studio in San Diego that is quite similar to my own plan! 8) They're using a mini split and a Fantech HRV, just like I plan to do! :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

From what I'm led to believe, these are also called 'stringers', 'cross-braces', 'blocking', 'battens', etc.... in various places and circles... (one reason I like being in medicine is that there is often a much better concensus of nomenclature... Imagine being on the operating table, and the surgeon asking for the 'roach clips', and then the nurse saying "oh, you mean the fancy tweezers?"...) I had thought that after a certain height of the wall, these members were required by code, for fireblocking purposes?... I also think that people put them in after they know where the seams of the sheets of drywall will be...??? K

JohnGardner wrote:

I,m always amazed with pictures of you guys framing that you don't use dwangs (horizontal timber inbetween the studs in the middle of the wall). This is commom practice downunder and makes the walls alot more sturdy with less chance of the studs warping. Keith, you should consider this perhaps? Thanks JohnG

They are required for walls >10 feet. Mine's 10 feet, so none needed. Although the studs are very flexible side-to-side if I grab and shake them... :roll: ...I'm sure that would cease to exist if I put 'em in. Yeah, I'll probably do it. But I'll save it for last. (I like sneaking between them at the moment, and we all know that would come to a halt as soon as I install them.) --Keith :mrgreen:

Well putting them clads/cats/stringers/fancytweezers back in the framing will make it a lot more "stiff" which is not what you want. You want flexible mass (or whatever you wanna call it). By adding sheets you'll be making the frame steady, those are 24oc not? While yer adding OSB as first layer you even make the wall steady enough to have someone bang onnit with a hammer 8) and it'll save a buck or two. I'd be carefull with the door/header indeed, better make it heavy (you already did fortunally) mmmm, framing.... sweet.

Yeah, that's a good point -- floppy is better. Although I don't think it's as important when you're doing double frames as I am... :roll: I haven't framed the door yet -- that's on the other section of wall that I'll be working on weekend after next. The studs are 16" o.c., not 24" o.c. :roll: That's what I drew up on my plans and that's what I submitted and that's what was approved. It wasn't until much later that I discovered 24" o.c. is considered "ideal." :x However, like I said, I don't think it matters too much with double framing... And considering that the other 2/3 of the outer leaf, which are the original walls (beefed up), is already framed 16" o.c., it probably matters even less. Nevertheless, it's a good point for those who are pursuing their own projects. :) Thanks, Ro, --Keith :mrgreen:

you THINK it don't matter much, or you KNOW it don't :wink: (24"oc will perform better in lower frequencies if I understand correctly, due to less stiffness of the wall area. That's something to consider, not?) We'll just wait for steve to kick in some expert comments, right... ?! now, shut down your comp and go get that frame finished Keith! :D

Brian at audio alloy has been madly building all KINDS of walls in the past year or so, and claims that if it weren't for codes that NO STUDS would be even better - I don't remember him making any distinction between double or single framed walls. In Keith's situation, there's already enough "overkill" that it shouldn't cause problems; but for the most part, it's apparently kinda like the "leaf" count - less is more... Steve

sharward wrote:

Yeah, that's a good point -- floppy is better. Although I don't think it's as important when you're doing double frames as I am... :

I would think trying to make something be floppy, which is already solid or semi-solid can only work to a certain extent... In other words, sheetrock is a homogeneous solid (or semi-solid, if you will?), and even if you could hang it in mid air (or by a string, sorta like a giant's mobile) -- which is as floppy a construction as you can get -- it might still have certain resonances, etc., that are nature to it's density and it's ability to pretty much hold itself in a sheet-shape by the forces of the materials that it's made from... If it's not under varying tensions with different OC spacings, then it's more like fretting a string at different frets? But when strings are fretted at very high frets, the volume decreases because the oscillation distances decrease -- is this not right? (BUT, is this different than striking the string to get a tone, and rather like sympathetic strings, which vibrate in resonance to other strings which ARE struck... will a highly 'fretted' sympathetic string also vibrate with less oscillation than if lower-fretted?)... So, would it be right to think that by stiffening the walls you are raising pitches, but that the intensity of the pitches could drop? K

Pitch, smitch; that's why we put INSULATION in walls... Oh, I'm sorry, did ya still think it was fer HEAT??!? Just kidding man; basically you build it as floppy, thick and heavy as you can, then damp it with insulation, GG, or both. Then ya stop over-thinking (didn't think I saw you "re-inventing" the UPS, didja :wink: ) Then, you do something that's been 'way too foreign to ME lately; ya pick up a dern "gweeter" and start makin' new caluses... :cry:

Steve.... lol... I think you may be referring to my diagrams for the sump pump backups?.... Well, I guess there's only so many ways to go with electicity... Next will be my solar powered pumps, my windmill pumps (which is exactly what the Dutch did), and my stationary bicycle sump pump.... may even put the chinchillas on a wheel to join the work force.... BUT, the biggest news is the cistern to sequester water from ground and store it for the lawn and plants during the droughty times in July, Aug, and Sept.... :idea: K

knightfly wrote:

...(didn't think I saw you "re-inventing" the UPS, didja :wink: )...

If you put the chinchillas and their wheel LOWER than your gear, they might have a bit more incentive to pedal harder... :lol: (no, I am NOT condoning cruelty to animals, as Keith can confirm)

You guys crack me up! :lol::lol::lol:

Well, 10 extremely hot days have gone by, during which (as I promised) I did no construction. I enjoyed the mini vacation from the work, but this weekend is soooo nice -- the garage was in the low 70s this morning... Perfect conditions for some more framing work! 8) Dan Fitzpatrick came by, as planned, for the trip up to The Stickhouse. I snapped a candid shot of him admiring my handiwork. :twisted: And then we posed for this one. I guess you could call us "the studs between the studs." :lol: :P Then we headed off to see Stick's project. The drive was nice and I force-fed Dan some Dream Theater in the RX-8. :twisted: 8) I had my digital camera all ready to go, but like a dolt I left it in the garage. :evil: So the only shot that I took was this one of Stick at his beautiful piano inside the house using the camera in my Treo. The man can play! :o

Moving on... The trip to The Stickhouse was awesome. Our timing couldn't have been better - they're done with framing and will probably be drywalling in the coming week, so we were able to get a great sense of the layout and see the place with a sort of X-ray vision. 8) If we had done this a week later, so much of the work probably would have been hidden by multiple layers of drywall. Stick took a photo of all three of us, which he'll probably post on his thread tomorrow. Many thanks to Dan for breaking away from his family event long enough to see my progress, come along for the ride, and for buying my snacks en route. ;-) And, of course, big props to Stick for his hospitality and granting us the lookee-loo privileges for what is destined to be an awesome studio! :D :D :D It's inspiring and exciting to see everything coming along so great. He's sure got a firm handle on that project of his. After Dan and I got back to my place and he headed off to dinner with the fam, I got back to work on my thing. It may not seem like much, but here's what I accomplished today. I basically attached four 2x4 blocks to fit between the trusses along the main part of the north outer leaf wall, then used a hacksaw to cut the metal furring strips to allow room for the top plate. I then screwed the strips to the blocks and nailed the top plate to the blocks. That may not seem like much, but let me tell you -- the end nailing through the trusses into the blocks was a royal pain because it was so freaking awkward -- on the second-to-last step on the ladder. barely fitting between those metal strips, hammering 3 1/2" common nails at unhuman angles. :evil: At one point I was literally leaving the end of the handle of the hammer stationary with my right hand and slamming the head of the hammer down with my left! :x :lol: Then it got late, so I called a quits for the day. Hopefully I'll have an actual wall there by tomorrow evening! I just figured out that I goofed on the upper top plate cut -- it's too long. I'll need to use a handsaw to trim off 3 1/2" so that the corners will overlap. Doh! :evil: --Keith :mrgreen:

I'm telling you... NAIL GUN. :wink:

But... But... I'm afraid! :shock: Seriously -- maybe I will rent one when I do my inner leaf framing. :) --Keith :mrgreen:

Wow... Look at that -- over 80,000 views! :twisted: Well I framed another wall today -- it went smoother than the last one because it was a few feet shorter, so it was a lot easier to lift and nudge into position. I'm just about done with my break, so I'll go back out there and tear down a little more ceiling drywall make some progress towards finishing the outer leaf framing altogether. I'm out of studs, though, so another trip to Home Depot to load up the Saturn is in order! :lol: (Fortunately, the 10 footers won't be nearly as crazy as those 16 footers I hauled last time! :P) I'll post pictures tonight. --Keith :mrgreen:

I decided to stop framing when I ran out of lumber. ;-) Things are moving along nicely. 8) Here are some close-up shots of the double top plate around the sound lock, where the outer leaf door will be. I decided to use 2x6s along the "door wall" for a couple of reasons. The main reason is that I was able to avoid the displeasure of installing blocking between the trusses for that section because the 2x6 overlaps the truss, so I was able to fasten it directly to the truss without any "middlemen." Then I got to thinking -- that's going to be a very heavy door, so it couldn't hurt to frame everything around it with 2x6s so that it's more stable. I'm pleased to report that my miter saw cuts 2x6s in one pass! 8) I was led to believe I'd probably have to flip the board over and make a second pass to complete the cut, but that's not the case. :) I've got a shopping list for Home Depot -- I'm figuring 12 more pieces of lumber to finish the outer leaf framing. Poor Saturn! :P (Don't worry -- I'll get my hands on a real truck for the inner leaf framing lumber!) I have decided that I kind of doing the framing work. It's kind of slow because of the predrilling and my general weakness and inexperience with the framing hammer -- but I'm getting better at it. 8) Also, there's a sense of instant gratification because you can almost instantly appreciate the pieces of the puzzle coming together. This is in sharp contrast to preparing for the slab -- "Look, ma -- a bigger hole in the ground today!" :evil: ...or "Look, ma -- I moved the big pile o' rocks into the big hole I dug!" :evil: There's just something more real about framing. :D But, man, I'm beat. I ache in numerous places and I can't wait to lie down! :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

Keith, awesome pictures man. Everything looks really good. I'm sure you've answered this question already but I was too lazy to scroll back through your encylopedia of a thread to look for the answer :wink: Anyway, just wondering if you're gonna leave that existing layer of drywall on your ceiling and just add the extra outer leaf layers over top of it or were you planning on removing it and the hat channel all together and re-drywalling your outer leaf?